First Firearm Thread.

[MarkinAZ]

Looked at a S&W 500 Mag this afternoon...DAMN!

Steve, if you move forward into this area of handguns, you may want to research the following web page and gunsmith:

http://www.customsixguns.com/ (http://www.customsixguns.com/)

I'd originally read about these calibers back in the late 80's, and I was trying to remember if it was in Shooting Times magazine or another periodical that first wrote about the .500 and .475 Linebaugh revolvers. They are both very impressive and powerful handguns. Most people at the time (including yours truly) handloaded our own rounds for our various calibers. Don't know if there are commercial loads for the Linebaugh as there may be for the Smith .500.

Anyways, there are quite a number of articles out there on the Linebaugh worth perusing if you're planning on adding this piece to your collection...:tu

[jluck]

Did you look at ammo prices?:O

Another reason to go .460, Hornady, the round the gun was made for can be found for around 30 a box while the cheapest .500 stuff I have found is 45+

Hornady 200 grain FTX 2,200 FPS

I have mustered 7" groups at 100 Yds open sights and 5" groups when I had mine scoped, I personally think thats damn good from a hand gun.:2

The 460 also will shoot 454 casull (SP?) and 45 long colt.

[emopunker2004]

:tu
I have no need for a handgun that big lol.

[Steve]

Sorry guys, I said I LOOKED...

I have no need of a pistol that powerful...If I need something that big I'll grab one of my rifles :)

Back when the Casull came out, I shot one of those...ouch!

BTW, the bullets look like lipstick tubes!

[dijit]

Just got my high capacity mags for my new Springfield XD!

[emopunker2004]

Just got my high capacity mags for my new Springfield XD!

:sl stop saying that! You got your normal capacity mags. The other mags are low-cap :D

[Steve]

:tpd:

[dijit]

:sl stop saying that! You got your normal capacity mags. The other mags are low-cap :D

Sorry nasty habit I have of placating the anti gun crowd.

[emopunker2004]

Well got my 3 30 round gen 3 pmags today. I like the grip compared to the gen 2 but the removable feedlip cover does not lock onto the bottom like the gen 2

[Robulous78]

Anyone know much about the Ruger Mini 14? I have shot one before and thought it was pretty decent... but I just saw one in the pawn shop today at a "good" price (I think)...

Tactical Model:

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14TacticalRifle/images/5846.jpg

950.00 Including taxes< case, out the door...

Thoughts?

[kelmac07]

Wife just gave me the go ahead to purchase my first firearm. Need a little help here...looking for a handgun with some stopping power, strictly for home protection, also something the wife can fire, if need be. Been looking at a Glock 45. Thoughts?

[LostAbbott]

If it is for home defense, then your best bet is a shotgun. They are the easiest to fire, have great stopping power, one pump will usually get anyone out of your home with out having to fire a shot and when you do have to shoot they are much less likely to go through walls and hit the wrong people...

However if you are set on a hand gun then get out to a range with your wife and shoot as many as you can. I would suggest spending about thirty minutes with each gun you are interested it so you can get a good idea about how it fires and how to work it...

[kelmac07]

We are both retired Army...so we know our way around a weapon. I have been instructed by numerous friends that a shotgun is great for home defense, and a lot less expensive than a handgun. Being hardheaded, I am stuck on a handgun. :D

[LostAbbott]

Well then, let me recommend you stay away from glock, I am not a fan and I find that their firing angle is too low. Basically speaking a lot of the recoil shock returns to my hand instead of over it with the slide.

I am a big fan of Ruger though I have a KP90 that is fantastic and i can shoot it all day and still comfortable return to center target quickly.

[Robulous78]

the 45 Cal Glock is a solid pistol in my opinion... however I personally would want something with a few more features for a "first" firearm...

The glock only has a trigger safety... depending on how you feel about that I would suggest looking into a pistol with a full on safety in case later on you decide to carry it... The glock also has no de- C oc k mechanism (had to space it, got censored)... no load indicator... no magazine button... Now where I do not find the lack of these features to be a draw back they are all things to consider when you are making your first purchase as many of those features are handy to those that are <respectfully> new to firearms...

The things Glocks do have going for them for new firearm users are that the mechanics are very simple... deconstruction of the slide from frame and reconstruction is pretty simple... cleaning the gun is very easy... the gun itself is low maintenance... requires less then frequent oiling... and parts/accessories are easy to find...

The 45 caliber itself is not a bad round... however there are many other cartridges that provide the same or greater power in a smaller package which allows for a larger capacity... for instance the 10mm or .40 S&W... the 45 cartridge is known to be a little "overkill" for some applications and a little "underkill" for others... since you say you are looking to buy for home defense you might consider the layout of your house in selecting your caliber... if you think you might need more range you might look into other calibers... if you think you might have to shoot threw a wall or door you might want something with more penetration...

Buy and large if I were buying a gun strictly for home defense I would look into a 12 ga shotgun... since I assume you are looking for a pistol I would say look into Springfield and Ruger to see if they might have something you might be interested in...

I know Glocks are completely reliable and capable pistols... that is why everyone has them... but I like to have my stuff be a little different then everyone else's.... kinda like buying a Honda versus buying a Cadillac... Just my 2 cents....

Hope this Helps Mac, Let us know what you end up with...

Rob

[Robulous78]

Well then, let me recommend you stay away from glock, I am not a fan and I find that their firing angle is too low. Basically speaking a lot of the recoil shock returns to my hand instead of over it with the slide.

I am a big fan of Ruger though I have a KP90 that is fantastic and i can shoot it all day and still comfortable return to center target quickly.

The composite frame of glocks makes recoil feel even worse then it would in other properly balanced pistols...

I have a Ruger P-89 as well as others... Just a simple 9mm but its alot of fun and I love it... the all metal alloy frame takes alot of the recoil (even for a 9mm) away... barely notice it at all...

[kelmac07]

Thanks for the input guys. :tu

[Bax]

We are both retired Army...so we know our way around a weapon. I have been instructed by numerous friends that a shotgun is great for home defense, and a lot less expensive than a handgun. Being hardheaded, I am stuck on a handgun. :D

The Beretta Storm .40 cal is a great pistol! Fully decocking safety, locking barrel and night sights.

[PearlS4]

We are both retired Army...so we know our way around a weapon. I have been instructed by numerous friends that a shotgun is great for home defense, and a lot less expensive than a handgun. Being hardheaded, I am stuck on a handgun. :D

Beretta 92FS then, pretty much same as the new military standard.

[Robulous78]

Beretta 92FS then, pretty much same as the new military standard.

Also a really great pistol with a few more features then the Glock... :tu

[Robulous78]

Also forgive me Mac... I didn't see your post about you and your wifey being ex-Army... If you have that experience then nvm the draw-backs of the Glock cause obviously you both aren't "new" to firearms... but they are good things to consider...

[jluck]

Well then, let me recommend you stay away from glock, I am not a fan and I find that their firing angle is too low. Basically speaking a lot of the recoil shock returns to my hand instead of over it with the slide.

I am a big fan of Ruger though I have a KP90 that is fantastic and i can shoot it all day and still comfortable return to center target quickly.

:tpd:

I couldn't agree more.

There are so many good guns out there today to own a Glock IMO....

Ruger makes many good protection oriented guns these days for a fair price, LCR,LCP(s) etc..

[TJarv]

A few of my toys:
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r552/TJarv/005-5.jpg
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r552/TJarv/004-6.jpg
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r552/TJarv/003-9.jpg
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r552/TJarv/002-13.jpg
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r552/TJarv/001-18.jpg

[Robulous78]

Nice XD-9... and I really like the Sig 1911...

[Digs]

Wife just gave me the go ahead to purchase my first firearm. Need a little help here...looking for a handgun with some stopping power, strictly for home protection, also something the wife can fire, if need be. Been looking at a Glock 45. Thoughts?

Hi Mac good choice I have the G21 sf & G30, with 14 rounds can't beat the 21;)

[Digs]

the 45 Cal Glock is a solid pistol in my opinion... however I personally would want something with a few more features for a "first" firearm...

The glock only has a trigger safety... depending on how you feel about that I would suggest looking into a pistol with a full on safety in case later on you decide to carry it... The glock also has no de- C oc k mechanism (had to space it, got censored)... no load indicator... no magazine button... Now where I do not find the lack of these features to be a draw back they are all things to consider when you are making your first purchase as many of those features are handy to those that are <respectfully> new to firearms...

The things Glocks do have going for them for new firearm users are that the mechanics are very simple... deconstruction of the slide from frame and reconstruction is pretty simple... cleaning the gun is very easy... the gun itself is low maintenance... requires less then frequent oiling... and parts/accessories are easy to find...

The 45 caliber itself is not a bad round... however there are many other cartridges that provide the same or greater power in a smaller package which allows for a larger capacity... for instance the 10mm or .40 S&W... the 45 cartridge is known to be a little "overkill" for some applications and a little "underkill" for others... since you say you are looking to buy for home defense you might consider the layout of your house in selecting your caliber... if you think you might need more range you might look into other calibers... if you think you might have to shoot threw a wall or door you might want something with more penetration...

Buy and large if I were buying a gun strictly for home defense I would look into a 12 ga shotgun... since I assume you are looking for a pistol I would say look into Springfield and Ruger to see if they might have something you might be interested in...

I know Glocks are completely reliable and capable pistols... that is why everyone has them... but I like to have my stuff be a little different then everyone else's.... kinda like buying a Honda versus buying a Cadillac... Just my 2 cents....

Hope this Helps Mac, Let us know what you end up with...

Rob


Rob most of all the so called "features" you say that the Glocks are missing is what makes them the 1st choice of regular pistol shooters and military / police.
All glock models contain only 34 parts, 4 of which are in the magizine alone, all that other fluff: chamber indicators, de-cockers, back strap safety's is what attracts first and second time pistol buyer it doesn't not improve the safety or performance one bit, how many times have you heard of someone accidentally discharging a firearm say " I tought the safety was on" or " I didn't know it was loaded".if the shooter always assumes the pistol is hot that's the best safety of all rather then put your faith in a safety or chamber indicator! Also missing all the useless fluff improves reliability and keeps cost down look at the Beretta M9 (92 FS) it had 70 parts! I have worked part time for a gunsmith for 10 years, all the "features" are the items that fail. :tu

Also Glock mags new can be had for $23/$24, i know a place right now that has PD trade in mags for the G23 for $9 ea!! You can also get Korean surpluses mags for $10-$12.

[Digs]

Nice XD-9... and I really like the Sig 1911...


Yea nothing like a 42 once, $800 -$1200 dollar .45 that only holds 7+1 ?? Don't take me the wrong way 1911's are of my favorite design.....

A G21 sf a can be had for $535 and holds 14 rds.:noon

[Digs]

Also a really great pistol with a few more features then the Glock... :tu

Not features, parts! :r:r

I have seen more 92 sf crack slides then even $99 chrome plated Jenings :D

[emopunker2004]

I'm a BIG Glock fanboy mac. We get issued glock 22 .40 S&W for work and I love them. I also love the .45 ACP round. IMO you can't go wrong with a gen 3 glock. i would avoid the gen4 with the changable backstrap as those are the main ones i've heard about having any kind of issues. You're retired .mil right? I believe you can get one for $398 dollars with 3 magazines. You have to find a Glock retailer that is an authorized LEO dealer. I think you can find out through Glock. If you can't find that info, shoot me a PM and I'll help.


Edit: Here's some info:
http://www.glockforum.com/forum/f8/purchasing-leo-homeland-security-active-duty-military-355/

[Digs]

I'm a BIG Glock fanboy mac. We get issued glock 22 .40 S&W for work and I love them. I also love the .45 ACP round. IMO you can't go wrong with a gen 3 glock. i would avoid the gen4 with the changable backstrap as those are the main ones i've heard about having any kind of issues. You're retired .mil right? I believe you can get one for $398 dollars with 3 magazines. You have to find a Glock retailer that is an authorized LEO dealer. I think you can find out through Glock. If you can't find that info, shoot me a PM and I'll help.

Heck yea gen 3 :noon

The L.E special with 3 mags is only I believe gen 4, isn't it?

[emopunker2004]

I don't know. As far as I know it's the gen 3 too. Edit: The $398 is only the 9mm and 40 but I think you still get a discount on the 45. not sure of price on the 45

[TJarv]

Yea nothing like a 42 once, $800 -$1200 dollar .45 that only holds 7+1 ?? Don't take me the wrong way 1911's are of my favorite design.....

A G21 sf a can be had for $535 and holds 14 rds.:noon

A 42 oz gun that I can hold a pattern half the size of any Glock I've ever shot, guns are all about how the shooter feels with it.

[emopunker2004]

I don't need a 1 Moa gun. I just need it to be minute of bad guy

[Robulous78]

Rob most of all the so called "features" you say that the Glocks are missing is what makes them the 1st choice of regular pistol shooters and military / police.
All glock models contain only 34 parts, 4 of which are in the magizine alone, all that other fluff: chamber indicators, de-cockers, back strap safety's is what attracts first and second time pistol buyer it doesn't not improve the safety or performance one bit, how many times have you heard of someone accidentally discharging a firearm say " I tought the safety was on" or " I didn't know it was loaded".if the shooter always assumes the pistol is hot that's the best safety of all rather then put your faith in a safety or chamber indicator! Also missing all the useless fluff improves reliability and keeps cost down look at the Beretta M9 (92 FS) it had 70 parts! I have worked part time for a gunsmith for 10 years, all the "features" are the items that fail. :tu

Also Glock mags new can be had for $23/$24, i know a place right now that has PD trade in mags for the G23 for $9 ea!! You can also get Korean surpluses mags for $10-$12.

I understand your arguments completely... My first choice is a S&W .357 stub that has none of those features/parts...

My recommendation was for a FIRST firearm... Obviously Mac with his service is looking for something different but my suggestion was meant for someone unfamiliar with firearms... So some of those features undoubtedly make the gun better for new users...

[Remo]

Tony, that Sig 1911 is sexy :tu

Mac, shoot a few guns and get a feel for what you and Kellie feel comfy with, a 9mm is plenty of stopping power plus it's 17 rounds, 10mm's are great, .40's are great and .45's are awesome. If I was going .45 I would get a 1911, the Glock .45 is gonna be HUGE in Kellie's hand. Anyways I have been carrying a 9mm for 15 years and I have seen what they can do, really no wrong choice. But a 12 gauge is the best for home defense :tu

12681

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12685

[TJarv]

Thanks mike

[Stevez]

Beretta 92FS then, pretty much same as the new military standard.

I have, and love, my M&P 9c. Sweet shooting gun and I'm very accurate with it. However, I bought my son a Beretta 92FS and it is one of the nicest guns I've ever shot. I love it. Very low recoil and easy to operate; it is a heavier gun, but I don't think too much so. I'd definitely try one of these out, especially if I wasn't trying to get one for conceal carry. Steve

[dijit]

Tony, that Sig 1911 is sexy :tu

Mac, shoot a few guns and get a feel for what you and Kellie feel comfy with, a 9mm is plenty of stopping power plus it's 17 rounds, 10mm's are great, .40's are great and .45's are awesome. If I was going .45 I would get a 1911, the Glock .45 is gonna be HUGE in Kellie's hand. Anyways I have been carrying a 9mm for 15 years and I have seen what they can do, really no wrong choice. But a 12 gauge is the best for home defense :tu

When looking for a low recoil round with great knockdown power try the .357sig. I dont have all my fingers on my shooting hand and this round saved me from going back down to 9mm or even 380.

[RobR1205]

So... the only thing that this gun can kill is paper targets, but I'm really getting into competition shooting. :D This is my Steyr-Mannlicher one-shot air pistol
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o609/robertrubiano92/1023121656.jpg
I shoot this gun at a reduced target 10 meters away, one-handed. The "7 ring" is about 2 and 3/8 inches in diameter and the "10 ring" is only 1/2 inch in diameter. In this pic, I was one point shy of a perfect 50
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o609/robertrubiano92/1114120908.jpg

[dijit]

Hi Mac good choice I have the G21 sf & G30, with 14 rounds can't beat the 21;)

Keep in mind ergonomics too. Many times when it comes to home defense you cant see the sights and the "perp" is too close to worry about sights. Natural point of aim is something to consider. Glocks are great reliable weapons but even very experienced shooters can make an error. I have seen two slam fires from Glocks both older models either Gen I or II the later models I have not heard of these issues.

[dijit]

So... the only thing that this gun can kill is paper targets, but I'm really getting into competition shooting. :D This is my Steyr-Mannlicher one-shot air pistol

I shoot this gun at a reduced target 10 meters away, one-handed. The "7 ring" is about 2 and 3/8 inches in diameter and the "10 ring" is only 1/2 inch in diameter. In this pic, I was one point shy of a perfect 50


Very nice! I am trying to find my son one of these. He shoots 4H competition air and .22 rifle.

[RobR1205]

Very nice! I am trying to find my son one of these. He shoots 4H competition air and .22 rifle.

I am new to it this year, but I am loving it and picking it up fast. My goal is to qualify as at least sharpshooter, if not expert, in pistol and rifle come December. But good for your son, I wish I could have started when I was younger!

[chaase321]

Glad this thread is taking off again! That's what I am looking for; getting everyone's opinions on guns for noobs. I have always hunted and I am comfortable with shotguns and rifles, but haven't had much experience with hand guns.

The wife and I are moving to the country and I'm looking into picking up the first hand gun. I have been looking at a few different ones at gun shows in the area, but I am leaning to the Sig Sauer Pro series SP2022 in the 40 S&W or 9mm. Not sure which to go with. The 9mm will be cheaper at the range, but the 40 will stop someone a little better.

Also looked at Glocks G23, and even though it was nice, I didn't care for the position my hand was in. I didn't shoot it though, so that may change.

Any input is appreciated, but I just like reading about what others are saying in the posts. Thanks guys

[dijit]

I am new to it this year, but I am loving it and picking it up fast. My goal is to qualify as at least sharpshooter, if not expert, in pistol and rifle come December. But good for your son, I wish I could have started when I was younger!

My son got his first BB gun at 8 yrs old right after seeing "A Christmas Story" and yes it was a genuine red rider 200 shot repeating action BB rifle. lol He was and has been ever since the best shot in the neighborhood, but better than that all the local parents have gotten involved in firearm safety with their kids. He will be 11 this year and gets his airgun at Christmas and will get his first .22 next year. I believe in teach them to respect firearms and to be safe with them is the best deterrent to slow gun crime.

[dijit]

Cole, I am glad I found this thread and am enjoying the input and opinions I have read. I have fired the sig pro in 40 and 357 sig great weapon in either caliber. I would highly recommend going to a range that has the ability to let you test fire weapons you are thinking of buying. See what feels good, see which ones you can point downrange and hit the target without looking down the sights, and see which ones your hand or your wife's hand fits best. There are so many different sizes and shapes that its almost like being turned loose in a candy store!

[PearlS4]

I have, and love, my M&P 9c. Sweet shooting gun and I'm very accurate with it. However, I bought my son a Beretta 92FS and it is one of the nicest guns I've ever shot. I love it. Very low recoil and easy to operate; it is a heavier gun, but I don't think too much so. I'd definitely try one of these out, especially if I wasn't trying to get one for conceal carry. Steve

True for being heavier, and not ideal for concealed, it gets some poor reviews because of these facts. That's what I like about it though, a nice and big large frame semi-auto. I'm a bigger guy, 6'-5", and the large frame pistols like the 92 fit me perfectly, for some reason all the compacts drive me nuts!

[Pilon]

What are some takes on the Kimber ultras for concealed carry. I've seen some complaints about slides locking up mid mag.

[Brian D.]

What are some takes on the Kimber ultras for concealed carry. I've seen some complaints about slides locking up mid mag.

Don't anybody hate on me for this, just my take...well, it's not just MY take:

When the 1911 design gets shrunk down smaller than say Commander size, the odds of having problems increase. And sometimes those issues are very tough to sort out and fix. Having said that, Kimber (and others) have been making the 3" guns for quite a spell now, and there's been a pretty good learning curve.

My general rule about the subcompact 1911s is that if you have one that works properly all the time, don't go trading it off. Might not be so fortunate next time.

[dijit]

What are some takes on the Kimber ultras for concealed carry. I've seen some complaints about slides locking up mid mag.

The only issue I'm familiar with regards to the slide locking up is when feeding larger JHP 200gr plus stick with FMJ or JHP under 200gr and you should be fine. If you experience some sticking with these this can be fixed by polishing the ramp a little.

[jluck]

Don't anybody hate on me for this, just my take...well, it's not just MY take:

When the 1911 design gets shrunk down smaller than say Commander size, the odds of having problems increase. And sometimes those issues are very tough to sort out and fix. Having said that, Kimber (and others) have been making the 3" guns for quite a spell now, and there's been a pretty good learning curve.

My general rule about the subcompact 1911s is that if you have one that works properly all the time, don't go trading it off. Might not be so fortunate next time.

Your entitled to your thoughts as are the rest of us, No need to preface IMO.

I am curious about your sources of info on the smaller .45's though, As I have had one on the "gotta have someday" list for a while and I will not have a unreliable gun for a CCW.

[emopunker2004]

Jared, I've heard the same on the smaller 1911s as well. Mostly people posting about it on alot of the gun forums.

[jluck]

Jared, I've heard the same on the smaller 1911s as well. Mostly people posting about it on alot of the gun forums.

I will do some research.....I really wanted a warthog too, might have to scratch it.

[TJarv]

I will do some research.....I really wanted a warthog too, might have to scratch it.

Heard great things about warthogs, I would probably get one if it weren't for the price tag

[dijit]

Your entitled to your thoughts as are the rest of us, No need to preface IMO.

I am curious about your sources of info on the smaller .45's though, As I have had one on the "gotta have someday" list for a while and I will not have a unreliable gun for a CCW.

Jared, I first saw articles about small frame .45s in general about 10 years ago on Gunbroker.com, Oddly enough I had just bought made by STAR and was experiencing these exact same problems. Changed my load out from 220gr golden saber to 180gr gold dots and never had another problem. I have since moved to a mid size Springfield XD in .45

[Brian D.]

Your entitled to your thoughts as are the rest of us, No need to preface IMO.

I am curious about your sources of info on the smaller .45's though, As I have had one on the "gotta have someday" list for a while and I will not have a unreliable gun for a CCW.

1) Me. Several years experience of range-officering and competing with handguns.
2) Friends, who have seen the same things over their many years of owning carrying and competing with handguns.
3) Local and big name gunsmiths.

Like I said the companies like Springfield, Kimber and Colt have been making the smaller-than-Commander sized 1911s for a good while now, and generally speaking they have figured out the problems with chopping down Mr. Browning's design so much.

Again, if you get one that runs well, don't peddle it off frivilously, next time may be a different story.

For the record I have a Springfield Compact (4") and a pair of Springfield Armory EMPs (3") and they run just fine. One of the EMP's took just a bit of extractor work to get up to snuff but that's not unheard of with even a new 5" 1911 once in a great while.

[Catfish]

Wife just gave me the go ahead to purchase my first firearm. Need a little help here...looking for a handgun with some stopping power, strictly for home protection, also something the wife can fire, if need be. Been looking at a Glock 45. Thoughts?

Mac, you should have said something at EPIC. I had my XDM on me the whole time. I know of at least 3 other people there that all were armed but names aren't necessary. And all of us carry different weapons.

Water over the dam, right?

When you go to look for your first handgun, you MUST give the Springfield XDM a serious look.

Some highlights of the XDM

Capacity: 9MM (19+1), .40 (16+1) .45 (13+1)
Tactile loaded chamber and striker position indicators
Ambidextrous mag release
Match grade barrel comes stock
Adjustable backstraps for different sized/ shaped hands
VERY easy to field strip and clean
And the BEST PART!!!!
Lasermax Guide Rod Laser for XD(M) (https://www.lasermax.com/ProductDetails/tabid/127/ProductID/1/Default.aspx)

Not to mention, she's just a damb sexy, dangerous looking b!tch...

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=206&pictureid=3119

Right now for $650-ish you can get them with:

3 mags
lock
2 mag holder
skeleton holster
mag loader
cleaning brush
3 backstraps
locking case

[emopunker2004]

Well i got some of my goodies in over the past couple days. Tuesday I got n 3 gen3 Ar-15 Pmags and 400rds of Prvi Partizan .223. Yesterday I got in 100rds Of M193 but I ordered 140. Contacted the company about their error.

Worked OT last night, means I'll have about $225 to spend next week on more ammo and mags :D Hope they have some good Black Friday sales...

[dijit]

Mac, you should have said something at EPIC. I had my XDM on me the whole time. I know of at least 3 other people there that all were armed but names aren't necessary. And all of us carry different weapons.

Water over the dam, right?

When you go to look for your first handgun, you MUST give the Springfield XDM a serious look.

I have the XD in .45 and love it nearly as much as my sig 226 in .357sig. @ kelmac07 you should give the XD some serious consideration its a great weapon. However, before you buy go to a range and try it and the others out make sure they fit before you spend a days pay on one.

[chaase321]

Mac, you should have said something at EPIC. I had my XDM on me the whole time. I know of at least 3 other people there that all were armed but names aren't necessary. And all of us carry different weapons.

Water over the dam, right?

When you go to look for your first handgun, you MUST give the Springfield XDM a serious look.

Some highlights of the XDM

Capacity: 9MM (19+1), .40 (16+1) .45 (13+1)
Tactile loaded chamber and striker position indicators
Ambidextrous mag release
Match grade barrel comes stock
Adjustable backstraps for different sized/ shaped hands
VERY easy to field strip and clean
And the BEST PART!!!!
Lasermax Guide Rod Laser for XD(M) (https://www.lasermax.com/ProductDetails/tabid/127/ProductID/1/Default.aspx)

Not to mention, she's just a damb sexy, dangerous looking b!tch...

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=206&pictureid=3119

Right now for $650-ish you can get them with:

3 mags
lock
2 mag holder
skeleton holster
mag loader
cleaning brush
3 backstraps
locking case

Where can you get this deal from? I like the idea of 16+1 in the 40 cal. And 650 is pretty good for all that comes with it...considering the SS SP2022 is around 475.

[dijit]

Where can you get this deal from? I like the idea of 16+1 in the 40 cal. And 650 is pretty good for all that comes with it...considering the SS SP2022 is around 475.

First place I would look is slickguns.com

[bonjing]

Where can you get this deal from? I like the idea of 16+1 in the 40 cal. And 650 is pretty good for all that comes with it...considering the SS SP2022 is around 475.

It might be the standard "XD Gear," it comes with all that stuff.

[chaase321]

First place I would look is slickguns.com

It might be the standard "XD Gear," it comes with all that stuff.

Thanks!

[Catfish]

Where can you get this deal from? I like the idea of 16+1 in the 40 cal. And 650 is pretty good for all that comes with it...considering the SS SP2022 is around 475.

Gun shows. I got mine for $630. The co. I bought it from said in an official email response to an inquiry that the best that could do now was $675. I received a personal email from the salesman saying if I showed up with cash he'd do $650. One thing I know about gun shows: They do NOT want to take back what they brought. You show up with cash and a reasonable offer, they're going to take it.

[chaase321]

Gun shows. I got mine for $630. The co. I bought it from said in an official email response to an inquiry that the best that could do now was $675. I received a personal email from the salesman saying if I showed up with cash he'd do $650. One thing I know about gun shows: They do NOT want to take back what they brought. You show up with cash and a reasonable offer, they're going to take it.

Thanks for the info David! I'll keep it in mind.

[Catfish]

The guide rod laser is going to increase the price substantially but it's no different than any other choice.

But man, oh man is it worth it!

[dijit]

The guide rod laser is going to increase the price substantially but it's no different than any other choice.

But man, oh man is it worth it!

I am checking into the guide rod laser or a trigger strap laser for mine this week.

[bigswol2]

I will do some research.....I really wanted a warthog too, might have to scratch it.

I have a two tone hog. Nice little piece.

[emopunker2004]

Colored the engraving in on the lower for my wife's AR15 :D


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8348/8207715377_9562d3c733_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestemens16/8207715377/)
color (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestemens16/8207715377/) by emopunker2004 (http://www.flickr.com/people/thestemens16/), on Flickr

[theonlybear4CORT]

Looks good, did you use crayon?

[emopunker2004]

No. Acrylic paint

[Digs]

Just changed my SIG around a little and installed my Aimpoint patrol rifle optic, seem to like it better then the Eotech I had on it.

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ak47dennis/9913068d2cf571496be29bc5d0b624ba.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ak47dennis/9c04f6e33b93322e81497e82088bb29a.jpg

[hammondc]

what model is that sig? I like the hinged stock.

[Digs]

It's the 556 classic swat, it uses the original swiss 550 stock

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh587/ak47dennis/becd3b44f94377d7d0848b3893fcb671.jpg

[dijit]

Colored the engraving in on the lower for my wife's AR15 :D


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8348/8207715377_9562d3c733_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestemens16/8207715377/)
color (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestemens16/8207715377/) by emopunker2004 (http://www.flickr.com/people/thestemens16/), on Flickr

That is a hot looking lower!

[emopunker2004]

Took this video this weekend of my wife shooting my friends Mosin Nagant (7.62x54R)
Can't figure out how to embed so here's the link http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestemens16/8223385305/

She had a blast and that lead me to buy two of these, one for me and one for her :D

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8350/8223351763_e7c72abe90_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestemens16/8223351763/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestemens16/8223351763/) by emopunker2004 (http://www.flickr.com/people/thestemens16/), on Flickr

[dijit]

She had a blast and that lead me to buy two of these, one for me and one for her :D

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8350/8223351763_e7c72abe90_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestemens16/8223351763/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thestemens16/8223351763/) by emopunker2004 (http://www.flickr.com/people/thestemens16/), on Flickr

Those are fun shooters. Reloading supplies are pretty inexpensive for them too.

[emopunker2004]

Those are fun shooters. Reloading supplies are pretty inexpensive for them too.

Yeh. I doubt I'll reload for it with Russian Surplus being so cheap. $70 for 440 rounds.

I am looking at picking up an Enfield Bolt Action though and might get into reloading for that and my Ar-15

[Digs]

Yeh. I doubt I'll reload for it with Russian Surplus being so cheap. $70 for 440 rounds.

I am looking at picking up an Enfield Bolt Action though and might get into reloading for that and my Ar-15

I used to collect Nagants if yout to see somthing, fire the M44 carbine at low light! It looks like pics of a WW2 battle ship firing those 9" guns haha

[emopunker2004]

:r I bet Dennis. Unfortunately the M44 has been hard to come by lately.

[dijit]

Yeh. I doubt I'll reload for it with Russian Surplus being so cheap. $70 for 440 rounds.

I am looking at picking up an Enfield Bolt Action though and might get into reloading for that and my Ar-15

Just make sure you are very diligent about cleaning after shooting as most of the Russian Surplus ammo is corrosive primer ammo. But that is really cheap for 400+ rounds

[emopunker2004]

:tu

Just disassembled her and sprayed the stock down with stripper.

[Digs]

:r I bet Dennis. Unfortunately the M44 has been hard to come by lately.

To think I may have owned 25-30 of them till I found the nicest for my collection :bh (now down to 6)

I remember when the old FAC Corp had a 5 pack of M44's for around $150
You got a Polish, Russian, Romanian, and Hungarian & Yugoslavian. They weren’t perfect condition but got you off to a good start.

[Digs]

:tu

Just disassembled her and sprayed the stock down with stripper.

Oh no, your not refinishing are you? You can get shellac from Home Depot - reapply with your fingers for the correct commie look

You can actually just scrape it off with a razor blade; or mineral spirits will wipe off the shellac

[emopunker2004]

Yeh I'm refinishing. The finish was crap on mine

[emopunker2004]

My wife's had a pretty good finish. Mine sucked. It's stripped now. Gonna sand it a lil bit then hit it with Red Mahogany Stain then Shellac.

[G G]

I am still waiting for my S&W E series 1911. I guess it'll come in someday.

[emopunker2004]

Well get to it G!

[emopunker2004]

Mosin stock is stripped and stained. Tried to shellac a small part and it clouded because of our humidity. Removed Shellac. Gonna go get some boiled linseed oil to rub into the wood and call it done :tu

[big pete]

Just got back from my first time at a range with a bunch of friends and it was a blast. They brought along a few guns for me to try out. Shot a few 9mm's (Glock 19, USP, MMP), two .45s (a HK & Kimber 1911, and a shotgun. Liked the Glock the best. I think I may have to get one of my own...

[emopunker2004]

Just got back from my first time at a range with a bunch of friends and it was a blast. They brought along a few guns for me to try out. Shot a few 9mm's (Glock 19, USP, MMP), two .45s (a HK & Kimber 1911, and a shotgun. Liked the Glock the best. I think I may have to get one of my own...

:tu

But first move to a free state so you an enjoy the full magazine capacity that they have to offer :D

[sevans105]

So....I've never had much experience with guns. Was thinking about getting into shooting. I've got a couple buddies who shoot several times a week and I'd like to join them. They've been letting me borrow rifles, shotguns, handguns but I'd like to have my own.

I'm looking for a rifle. I'm interested in varmint type shooting. Don't really need massive ammo ability, mainly looking for accuracy at a relative distance. I like the "reach out and touch something" feeling. With borrowed rifles, I'm not bad. I can consistently do a 1 1/2 inch 5 round group at 250 yards after a few test shots.

I've shot 22 long, 223, 30-06, 30-30, and 308. I was the most accurate at the longest distance with the 308, but I'm open to suggestions.

What do you guys like/recommend?

[TJarv]

.223 or .220 swift would probably work well for you

[emopunker2004]

.223 is a very popular varmint round. They even make varmint ar-15's lol. .223 will reach out to the distance you want. I think a .308 is a bit much for varmint shooting. You can always look into 300 blackout. Do you own an Ar-15 or plan on it in the near future? If so then the plus to getting something in .223 would be ammo interchangeability.

[Remo]

So....I've never had much experience with guns. Was thinking about getting into shooting. I've got a couple buddies who shoot several times a week and I'd like to join them. They've been letting me borrow rifles, shotguns, handguns but I'd like to have my own.

I'm looking for a rifle. I'm interested in varmint type shooting. Don't really need massive ammo ability, mainly looking for accuracy at a relative distance. I like the "reach out and touch something" feeling. With borrowed rifles, I'm not bad. I can consistently do a 1 1/2 inch 5 round group at 250 yards after a few test shots.

I've shot 22 long, 223, 30-06, 30-30, and 308. I was the most accurate at the longest distance with the 308, but I'm open to suggestions.

What do you guys like/recommend?

17 HRM :tu

[sevans105]

.223 is a very popular varmint round. They even make varmint ar-15's lol. .223 will reach out to the distance you want. I think a .308 is a bit much for varmint shooting. You can always look into 300 blackout. Do you own an Ar-15 or plan on it in the near future? If so then the plus to getting something in .223 would be ammo interchangeability.

Don't have any long rifles at the moment. As for the AR-15, yeah, they look cool and all, but I really don't see a need or desire to own one.

Remo, what is a 17 HRM?

I don't hunt, so this will be more of a target rifle. Mostly interested in seeing how far I can shoot and maintain accuracy. I'm kind of a math/stats geek so ballistics tables and striving for "perfect" is what I'm trying to accomplish. I realize that an "off the shelf" gun will never be able to do that for me, but I need something to start with.

[emopunker2004]

If its all about ditance and accuracy check out .338 Lapua :D

[Remo]

Don't have any long rifles at the moment. As for the AR-15, yeah, they look cool and all, but I really don't see a need or desire to own one.

Remo, what is a 17 HRM?

I don't hunt, so this will be more of a target rifle. Mostly interested in seeing how far I can shoot and maintain accuracy. I'm kind of a math/stats geek so ballistics tables and striving for "perfect" is what I'm trying to accomplish. I realize that an "off the shelf" gun will never be able to do that for me, but I need something to start with.



The .17 HMR round is similar to rounds developed by dedicated rimfire wildcatters who worked to create a rimfire cartridge with an exceptionally flat trajectory. These wildcatters were seeking to match the ballistics of the obsolete 5mm Remington Magnum Rimfire, which was made from 1970 to 1974, and was to that point the fastest rimfire cartridge ever produced.[4] With 5mm (.20 caliber) diameter barrels and bullets being virtually unavailable at the time (the 5mm RMR was the last commercial 5mm round until the 2004 release of the centerfire .204 Ruger), the commercially available .17 caliber became their bullet of choice. The .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire was the logical parent case, rather than 5mm RMR (with its unique case head size, which requires a significantly different bolt and magazine), because it was commonly available, and it is a far larger and stronger case than the next largest .22 Long Rifle. The .17 caliber wildcats not only met, but far exceeded the 5 mm RMR's velocities and flat trajectory. The accuracy of these cartridges was also quite good. However, the downrange energy of the 5mm RMR is superior to both .22 WMR and .17 HMR, so there is still potential in the 5mm rimfire for wildcatters.[5]

Hornady, in conjunction with Marlin Firearms and Sturm, Ruger (manufacturers in the rimfire rifle market), followed much the same path. With the .22 WMR case as the starting point, a simple barrel change was sufficient for most .22 WMR firearms to chamber the new cartridge. In 2002 the first rifles and ammunition began appearing on the market. While the ammunition was relatively expensive due to the high-performance .17 caliber bullets used, it was still cheaper than most centerfire ammunition. By 2004 CCI, Federal Cartridge and Remington had each introduced .17 HMR ammunition offerings.[3]

[edit] Availability





A .17 HMR round (left) compared with a .22 Long Rifle round (right)
Cartridges for .17 HMR come with bullets that weigh 15.5-grain (1.00 g), 17-grain (1.1 g), and 20-grain (1.3 g), and come in designs such as polymer (ballistic) tipped, hollow points, soft points, and FMJ. The terminal ballistics of the lightweight expanding bullets limit the .17 HMR to small game animals and varmints. .17 HMR ammunition is less common and more expensive than the .22 caliber rimfire rounds, but this is changing as the popularity of .17 HMR rifles gathers momentum.[6] 17 HMR rifles and ammo have continued to sell briskly. It may be interesting to note that large retailer Wal-Mart sells CCI .17 HMR in some of their suburban locations. The same cannot be said for similar special purpose cartridges such as the 6.8 SPC that are rising in popularity because of their ballistic properties.

Following the success of the .17 HMR, the .17 Hornady Mach 2 (.17 HM2), was introduced in early 2004. The .17 HM2 is based on the .22 LR (slightly longer in case dimensions) case necked down to .17 caliber using the same bullet as the HMR but at a velocity of approximately 2,100 feet per second (640 m/s) in the 17-grain (1.1 g) polymer tip loading.

A growing number of companies offer .17 HMR ammunition. CCI Ammunition loads all of the .17 HMR ammunition for the CCI, Federal Cartridge, Hornady, and Remington brands. However, the ammunition is loaded with different bullets to different specifications.[7] Ammunition is also available from Winchester, PMC and Sellier & Bellot.

Citing safety concerns about the round's use in semi-automatic firearms, Remington issued a product safety warning and recall notice.[8][9]

[edit] Comparison with .22 LR Ammunition

[edit] Advantages
■Faster flight: 2350-2550fps compared to the popular ≈1255fps .22LR High Velocity. (.22LR Hyper Velocity can reach ≈1700fps)
■Flatter trajectory. This means that the user will not have to adjust for the projectile's drop as much as with the .22 LR
■Longer range
■As the round is smaller there is less chance of ricochet
■More accurate, 1 MOA or better
■More powerful
■Less susceptible to cross winds due to high ballistic co-efficient
■More effective on larger game.

[edit] Disadvantages
■Much more expensive
■Too powerful at close distance for small game, although soft point bullets are available
■The cartridge is louder and there are no subsonic bullets available




[edit] Comparison with .22 WMR Ammunition

[edit] Advantages
■Faster flight: 2350-2550fps compared to the 1910fps 22Wmr 40gr rounds
■Flatter trajectory and better ballistic co-efficient
■Longer range. Bullets expand better especially at long range e.g. 150 yards
■As the round is smaller there is less chance of ricochet
■More accurate, 1 MOA or better
■Less susceptible to cross winds due to high ballistic co-efficient

[edit] Disadvantages
■Less kinetic energy
■Slightly more expensive



Look into them :tu

[jluck]

So....I've never had much experience with guns. Was thinking about getting into shooting. I've got a couple buddies who shoot several times a week and I'd like to join them. They've been letting me borrow rifles, shotguns, handguns but I'd like to have my own.

I'm looking for a rifle. I'm interested in varmint type shooting. Don't really need massive ammo ability, mainly looking for accuracy at a relative distance. I like the "reach out and touch something" feeling. With borrowed rifles, I'm not bad. I can consistently do a 1 1/2 inch 5 round group at 250 yards after a few test shots.

I've shot 22 long, 223, 30-06, 30-30, and 308. I was the most accurate at the longest distance with the 308, but I'm open to suggestions.

What do you guys like/recommend?
.204 Ruger.

[emopunker2004]

So I think I'm going to apply to get my 03 FFL (C&R). This way I can buy some C&R guns and have the shipped direct to me with no transfer. The fee is only $30 for the application :tu

[Stevez]

Justin, if you proceed with trying to get your FFL, please keep us posted. I have toyed with that idea myself but hear it is a real pain in the ass. Seems almost to good to be true.

[Ashcan Bill]

So I think I'm going to apply to get my 03 FFL (C&R). This way I can buy some C&R guns and have the shipped direct to me with no transfer. The fee is only $30 for the application :tu

Justin, if you proceed with trying to get your FFL, please keep us posted. I have toyed with that idea myself but hear it is a real pain in the ass. Seems almost to good to be true.

A C&R license is different from a standard FFL. The C&R allows collecting of firearms more than fifty years old, and isn't geared toward public sales.

[dijit]

A C&R license is different from a standard FFL. The C&R allows collecting of firearms more than fifty years old, and isn't geared toward public sales.

I have heard there is also a home FFL as well that is geared towards the more modern collector that may do some trading but does not have a store front. I am currently trying to get all the details about this one. If its real I will post details here.

[Stevez]

Thanks for the info on the home FFL and the C&R. I never knew of that. Steve

[Digs]

I have heard there is also a home FFL as well that is geared towards the more modern collector that may do some trading but does not have a store front. I am currently trying to get all the details about this one. If its real I will post details here.

I have never heard of a "home ffl" I have the type 3 ffl and work part time for a type a 7


Usage
Type 1 Title 1 dealer or gunsmith other than destructive devices. Can also deal in Title II NFA firearms with class 3 tax stamp.
Type 2 Title 1 dealer doing business as a pawnbroker.
Type 3 Licensed collector of Curio & Relic (C&R) firearms.
Type 6 Licensed manufacturer of ammunition and reloading components other than ammunition for destructive devices and armor piercing ammunition.
Must also register with the Department Of State under the ITAR Current registration costs start at $2,250 per year.[1]
Type 7 Title 1 manufacturer of firearms and ammunition, who may also act as dealer; may not manufacture or deal in destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices, or armor piercing ammunition. Must also register with the Department Of State under the ITAR Current registration costs start at $2,250 per year. Can also manufacture & deal in Title II NFA firearms with class 2 tax stamp.
Type 8 Importer of Title 1 firearms and ammunition. Must also register with the Department Of State under the ITAR Current registration costs start at $2,250 per year Can also import Title II NFA firearms with class 1 tax stamp.
Type 9 Dealer in firearms, including destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices, and armor piercing ammunition. Requires payment as an SOT Class 1 (can act as an NFA Dealer). To deal/broker any DD with an explosives content (e.g. flash-bangs) requires an additional Federal Explosives License[2] as a Dealer of High Explosives.

[Digs]

A C&R license is different from a standard FFL. The C&R allows collecting of firearms more than fifty years old, and isn't geared toward public sales.

Bill, a C&R doesn't have to be 50 years old, I have many many 90's weapons that are C&R


-Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

-Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest;

-Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

[emopunker2004]

Yeh I'm just going for my C&R FFL. There are many people who have run their 01 FFL out of their home. It's difficult in some places though due to zoning restrictions. Just gonna get my 03 FFL so I can order some C&R stuff online without having to deal with a transfer at an 01 FFL. I'm wanting an m48 mauser, Swiss K11 or K31, Tokarev pistol, maybe a Garand when I have the money. But for it only costing $30, I figure why not; it costs almost that much for one transfer.

[dijit]

I have never heard of a "home ffl" I have the type 3 ffl and work part time for a type a 7


Usage
Type 1 Title 1 dealer or gunsmith other than destructive devices. Can also deal in Title II NFA firearms with class 3 tax stamp.
Type 2 Title 1 dealer doing business as a pawnbroker.
Type 3 Licensed collector of Curio & Relic (C&R) firearms.
Type 6 Licensed manufacturer of ammunition and reloading components other than ammunition for destructive devices and armor piercing ammunition.
Must also register with the Department Of State under the ITAR Current registration costs start at $2,250 per year.[1]
Type 7 Title 1 manufacturer of firearms and ammunition, who may also act as dealer; may not manufacture or deal in destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices, or armor piercing ammunition. Must also register with the Department Of State under the ITAR Current registration costs start at $2,250 per year. Can also manufacture & deal in Title II NFA firearms with class 2 tax stamp.
Type 8 Importer of Title 1 firearms and ammunition. Must also register with the Department Of State under the ITAR Current registration costs start at $2,250 per year Can also import Title II NFA firearms with class 1 tax stamp.
Type 9 Dealer in firearms, including destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices, and armor piercing ammunition. Requires payment as an SOT Class 1 (can act as an NFA Dealer). To deal/broker any DD with an explosives content (e.g. flash-bangs) requires an additional Federal Explosives License[2] as a Dealer of High Explosives.

Maybe it is a type 1. I will have to find the website and see what it said again. I just remember it saying that it was easy to get your FFL with this one and it could be from home, no need for a store front.

[emopunker2004]

that's a regular 01 ffl. same as a store front ffl. same ffl. it's easy to get if you make sure you get the zoning approved by the zoning board

[Ashcan Bill]

Bill, a C&R doesn't have to be 50 years old, I have many many 90's weapons that are C&R


-Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

-Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest;

-Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

While I'm familiar with the wording, I've never personally known anyone who was able to purchase anything other than older milsurp weapons with a C&R license. Now you have me curious. What recently manufactured weapons from the nineties fall under C&R regulations that you've been able to purchase? I may have to reconsider picking up a type 03.

[Digs]

While I'm familiar with the wording, I've never personally known anyone who was able to purchase anything other than older milsurp weapons with a C&R license. Now you have me curious. What recently manufactured weapons from the nineties fall under C&R regulations that you've been able to purchase? I may have to reconsider picking up a type 03.

CZ-82
P64
Polish P82 (to be added soon)

As with any imports this just a snap shot of right now, they come and go.

[Digs]

that's a regular 01 ffl. same as a store front ffl. same ffl. it's easy to get if you make sure you get the zoning approved by the zoning board

Plus facilities & posted store hours etc etc. & retail store...

I know here is Pa in the gun show capital of the world ha-ha; you used to be able to apply for a 01 for gun show sales only. Pretty sure these are hard to get if not impossible anymore.

[emopunker2004]

No store front needed. How could online sites sell online only?

[jluck]

No store front needed. How could online sites sell online only?

My father in law has this type, He cannot have a actual commercial building/"store front". He sells from his home and online only. I don't know the nomenclature of his FFL, If it's real important I could ask.

[emopunker2004]

Doesn't matter to me as I'm only going to get the 03 C&R FFL.

[dijit]

Here are a few things I just deciphered from BATFE regarding home FFL licensing. in order to have a class 01 FFL you need to show store hours and have a store front or if you want to be seen by appointment only then you need to acquire gunsmith certification or if I understand this right you need to have your firearms instructor certification and you can operate your home as a warehouse. I started my search here http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/ and keep in mind all of these are captioned with you must comply with state zoning and licensing laws as well as the federal laws.

[big pete]

Anyone have experience with the 9mm Springfield XDm? Pros/cons?

[Digs]

Anyone have experience with the 9mm Springfield XDm? Pros/cons?

Yea, which one the 4.5 or 3.8? What are you intending do with it carry and target shooting.

[big pete]

3.8". Will be used for the range and home

[RobR1205]

Hello fellow shooters. Happy to say that I qualified as an Expert in the rifle portion of the USCG Marksman Test today.
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o609/robertrubiano92/PC031482.jpg
Our service weapon is the M16, where we are evaluated at three positions (prone, sitting, standing) at slow fire and rapid fire. The three qualifications you can receive are Basic (140/200), Sharpshooter (160/200), or Expert (175/200). I scored 178 :)

[TJarv]

That's awesome Rob

[Cigar Mike]

Congrats!
More bling for your rack!

[RobR1205]

Congrats!
More bling for your rack!

Now I can at least call it a rack...it was just one lonely National Defense Medal :r

[emopunker2004]

:tu great job Rob.

Well I think a few more days of wiping down the rifle stock with BLO and then a couple days of drying and she will be done. Pictures to come when it's all back together.

[dijit]

Hello fellow shooters. Happy to say that I qualified as an Expert in the rifle portion of the USCG Marksman Test today.
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o609/robertrubiano92/PC031482.jpg
Our service weapon is the M16, where we are evaluated at three positions (prone, sitting, standing) at slow fire and rapid fire. The three qualifications you can receive are Basic (140/200), Sharpshooter (160/200), or Expert (175/200). I scored 178 :)

Nice, Great job on the expert medal

[dijit]

Anyone have experience with the 9mm Springfield XDm? Pros/cons?

I have the XDm 4.5 in .45 ACP. Only drawback I Have had so far after about 200 rounds was occasionally the larger JHP 220 gr. didnt want to feed. Took it to my local gunsmith and the next day it worked great. He just polished the feeder ramp. 500 rounds later and no issues at all. I did go back to the 180 gr gold dots for defense carry. I can get almost 1150 fps if I home load without risking the frame from too much pressure.

To be honest I expected to be a little disappointed going from a Sig 256 in .357sig to the XD in .45 ACP but with the exception of the greater recoil both due to caliber and lighter frame it has performed very well.

[hammondc]

He just polished the feeder ramp.


I have this done on all my guns.

[big pete]

Seems like a toss up between the Glock 19 and XDM 3.8. I'll have to find a local dealer with the XDM in stock and see how it feels.

[Digs]

Seems like a toss up between the Glock 19 and XDM 3.8. I'll have to find a local dealer with the XDM in stock and see how it feels.

I own both, my G19 is my favorite.

[Cigar Mike]

I have this done on all my guns.

Me, as well. I had a really inconstant feed problem on my daily carry (XD .45 ACP) until I did a little polishing on the feed ramp.

Since then I've paid attention to that on all my new guns when I get them. It really has made a big difference on my .22LRs, as I think that soft lead tends to catch burrs and rough spots more than jacketed rounds would.

[Cigar Mike]

Now I can at least call it a rack...it was just one lonely National Defense Medal :r

Fear not, Rob. In a couple years you'll be cursing every time you have some event or inspection and you have to go check DA just to make sure your rack's up to date. It'll seem like it happens all at once.

[markem]

Hi gang!

If anyone is interested in the book "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson [Hardcover]" (c) 2001, I just listed one on Amazon in very good condition for $16 (plus shipping). Here is the link to the used listing page:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0873492722/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

I'm selling for the group called "Friends of the Tigard Library". The book is very nearly in new condition.

I can't sell it to you directly, you have to go to Amazon if you want it.

[Catfish]

Anyone have experience with the 9mm Springfield XDm? Pros/cons?

No, but i'm probably the biggest XDM.40 fanboy on this site. Nothing but good things to say.

[dijit]

No, but i'm probably the biggest XDM.40 fanboy on this site. Nothing but good things to say.

You can mark me as one of the biggest fans of the XD in .45

[big pete]

Just got a call from the gun shop and my XD9 came in today. Can't pick it up until next Friday arggg (darn CA 10 day waiting period). Already ordered a safe, Talon grips, and 10 boxes of Federal range ammo.

[Steve]

Does the waiting period start when you ordered it or when it comes in?

[Catfish]

Cheaper Than Dirt has XDM mags for $5 less than the Springfield site.

Happy Birthday to me!!!

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Victory for the NRA and Illinois brothers:tu
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-us-appeals-court-strikes-down-states-concealedcarry-ban-20121211,0,7034171.story

[Pilon]

Victory for the NRA and Illinois brothers:tu
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-us-appeals-court-strikes-down-states-concealedcarry-ban-20121211,0,7034171.story

Saw that today too. That's awesome

[big pete]

Does the waiting period start when you ordered it or when it comes in?

Unfortunately it starts when the gun comes in

[Steve]

That's what I figured. It would make too much sense that you have already waited several days/weeks for the thing to get to the shop. Gotta love politics/bureaucracy

[emopunker2004]

Steve, at least in fl it's only 3 days on handguns without a permit

[dijit]

That's what I figured. It would make too much sense that you have already waited several days/weeks for the thing to get to the shop. Gotta love politics/bureaucracy

The worst part is that they use the same verification system the states that have instant verification use. They dont learn anything more in those 10 extra days.

[Robulous78]

The worst part is that they use the same verification system the states that have instant verification use. They dont learn anything more in those 10 extra days.

:lr :lr :lr

[spectrrr]

almost got a headache from reading that article... if I had to read one more claim of for the "for the public safety" without a single shred of evidence to back it up.... even the court judges said the burden of proof wasn't met!

[Steve]

Steve, at least in fl it's only 3 days on handguns without a permit

True dat!

[bonjing]

Just got a call from the gun shop and my XD9 came in today. Can't pick it up until next Friday arggg (darn CA 10 day waiting period). Already ordered a safe, Talon grips, and 10 boxes of Federal range ammo.

When I bought my first gun, the HSC was good for life and it was a 15 day waiting period.

[big pete]

Old man :p

[dijit]

I guess it can be good living in the sticks here in Indiana. No waiting period, lifetime concealed carry permit, shooting range less than 2 miles from the house and state hunting property 4 miles the other direction. Now if I just had a log home I would be in heaven.

[Steve]

Not a first, but my most recent find...

http://oldchurchbbq.com/sharedpictures/2012-12-13_Zane%20Grey%20Century/Zane%20Grey%20Anniversay%20Edition%20Marlin.jpg

Marlin Zane Grey Century Anniversay Edition, an early Fathers Day present from my wife...bummer I don't get it until Fathers Day though.

[Robulous78]

Still a really sweet looking rifle...

[spectrrr]

Just got in a new scope for my AR's targeting and tracking system, I think it is finally complete. It's a new non-computerized system I call Multiple Simultaneous Target Tracking And Recognition, MSTTAR for short.

You know the whole adage "one is none and two is one", so I figured by that line of thinking, 10+ must surely be unstoppable. I think it will catch on soon, we're going to see many more concerned private citizens building their own version of this advanced configuration.








http://www.naaminis.com/discus/messages/670/29363.jpg




(I assume people realize that it's just my attempt at being humorous, that is not actually my gun)

[Ashcan Bill]

Just got in a new scope for my AR's targeting and tracking system, I think it is finally complete. It's a new non-computerized system I call Multiple Simultaneous Target Tracking And Recognition, MSTTAR for short.

You know the whole adage "one is none and two is one", so I figured by that line of thinking, 10+ must surely be unstoppable. I think it will catch on soon, we're going to see many more concerned private citizens building their own version of this advanced configuration.







So with that rig, before you shot me, you could take an x-ray of my knee?

:r

[jluck]

Just got in a new scope for my AR's targeting and tracking system, I think it is finally complete. It's a new non-computerized system I call Multiple Simultaneous Target Tracking And Recognition, MSTTAR for short.

You know the whole adage "one is none and two is one", so I figured by that line of thinking, 10+ must surely be unstoppable. I think it will catch on soon, we're going to see many more concerned private citizens building their own version of this advanced configuration.
http://www.naaminis.com/discus/messages/670/29363.jpg




(I assume people realize that it's just my attempt at being humorous, that is not actually my gun)

WTF?....You don't even have the chainsaw attachment, Yea it does exist!:D
..

[hammondc]

I think that pretty much has all the accessories.

[forgop]

Shopping for my first AR before a bunch of knee jerkers try to pass some feel good garbage to prevente from buying one.

[hammondc]

Yep...me too. Unfortunately, the prices have skyrocketed in the past few days. I am on the fence for the Troy Arms AR at Dicks. I have heard/read a lot of good things.

[CigarSquid]

Shopping for my first AR before a bunch of knee jerkers try to pass some feel good garbage to prevente from buying one.

I would love to have one, but don't have the money to drop.

I may purchase another pistol.. One the wife can use more and one more 'toy' for me.

[forgop]

I would love to have one, but don't have the money to drop.

I may purchase another pistol.. One the wife can use more and one more 'toy' for me.

My brother has quite an arsenal of toys and never really considered a need for one, but sadly it's to the point that I want one just more or less to give everyone else a big eff you to the powers that be. I've had a shotgun that was given to me for Christmas by my dad when I was 12 years old, but it's time to get more power.

[bonjing]

Good luck buying your stuff guys, a lot of companies are showing out of stock already! ! !

[forgop]

Good luck buying your stuff guys, a lot of companies are showing out of stock already! ! !

I'm gonna shop around for a local private sale. Already found a guy I can get assemblies from.

[jluck]

I'm gonna shop around for a local private sale. Already found a guy I can get assemblies from.

Don't wait! My FIL was going to order a few AR's and when he first looked his distributer had 16, He came back 45 minutes later and....gone!

[dijit]

Yep...me too. Unfortunately, the prices have skyrocketed in the past few days. I am on the fence for the Troy Arms AR at Dicks. I have heard/read a lot of good things.

Better move quick Dicks here have pulled all "assault weapons" and the manager said they company is going to do it nationwide.

[jluck]

I think that pretty much has all the accessories.

Nope....
12853

[dijit]

don't wait! My FIL was going to order a few AR's and when he first looked his distributer had 16, He came back 45 minutes later and....gone!

We will most likely have to resort to buying parts and assembling our own! Get the upper and lower first as they were the first to sell out when the previous gun bill was about to pass.

[jluck]

Better move quick Dicks here have pulled all "assault weapons" and the manager said they company is going to do it nationwide.

Cheaper than dirt decided they don't sell guns any longer also. Thats two company's I will no longer support.

We will most likely have to resort to buying parts and assembling our own! Get the upper and lower first as they were the first to sell out when the previous gun bill was about to pass.

Even lowers and uppers will get hard too get again.

[dijit]

Even lowers and uppers will get hard too get again.

Yes they will, ammo will start to go up again too guess I better get out the 223 and 556 dies. Never know when a down on their luck AR owner wont be able to pay for factory rounds :D

[big pete]

Going to pick up my XD9 on Friday and I'm hoping the shop has some ARs in stock (last time I went, they had around 10). I may have to get one

[357]

Victory for the NRA and Illinois brothers:tu
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-us-appeals-court-strikes-down-states-concealedcarry-ban-20121211,0,7034171.story

Great news. This is a historic ruling. So recently the Supreme Court ruled the 2nd Amendment is an individual right in the DC gun ban case, now a Federal Appeals court ruled that the right to bear is not limited to the home. I don't see how any restrictions can stand anymore.

If I ran the NRA I'd start suing to overturn all the restrictions many states/cities pass as "infringment". Registration, gun-free zones, etc should all go.

[MrWolf55]

Having a similar situation as everyone else here. Been planning to pick up my first AK sometime before this summer. Looking mainly for a polish AKMS or a straight-forward WASR; Unfortunately the prices of them on gunbroker have skyrocketed over the past few days. I guess big brother is forcing my hand.

[emopunker2004]

If you're looking to have an AR-15 in the future I would at least go pick up a stripped lower or two as this is the firearms according to the ATF and would be the part needed before a ban. And some 30rd mags.

[emopunker2004]

Great news. This is a historic ruling. So recently the Supreme Court ruled the 2nd Amendment is an individual right in the DC gun ban case, now a Federal Appeals court ruled that the right to bear is not limited to the home. I don't see how any restrictions can stand anymore.

If I ran the NRA I'd start suing to overturn all the restrictions many states/cities pass as "infringment". Registration, gun-free zones, etc should all go.

Unfortunately rumor has it that they may have "assault weapons" added to the NFA Title II list and start treating them as they do a SBR, SBS, or supressor and require Class 3 handling of them the same and the same $200 tax stamp. :/

[PearlS4]

Guns are bad, mmmmmkay.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c67.0.403.403/p403x403/149712_4658500134722_1111810845_n.jpg
I'll just keep these hidden in my garage

[bonjing]

Larue is still showing in stock for now. . .

[emopunker2004]

Guns are bad, mmmmmkay.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c67.0.403.403/p403x403/149712_4658500134722_1111810845_n.jpg
I'll just keep these hidden in my garage

You're doing it wrong. U lost all ur guns in a tragic boating accident ;)

[dijit]

Guns are bad, mmmmmkay.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c67.0.403.403/p403x403/149712_4658500134722_1111810845_n.jpg
I'll just keep these hidden in my garage

Be careful! Those are the kind of weapons that jump up in a crowd and pull their own trigger!

[Ashcan Bill]

You're doing it wrong. U lost all ur guns in a tragic boating accident ;)

Wow, that happened to you too? What an amazing coincidence.

[forgop]

Anyone have any recommendations for places to buy complete assemblies? Not looking for bottom of the barrel prices and certainly not high end. Got a few I'm looking at and just looking for some other final options.

[emopunker2004]

Anyone have any recommendations for places to buy complete assemblies? Not looking for bottom of the barrel prices and certainly not high end. Got a few I'm looking at and just looking for some other final options.

If u don't mind the wait times palmetto state armory is good for uppers. Buy a stripped lower and parts kit and build that yourself.

[spectrrr]

WTF?....You don't even have the chainsaw attachment, Yea it does exist!:D
..

I was about to reply "pics or it never happened", and then I read further down the thread... lol


Yep...me too. Unfortunately, the prices have skyrocketed in the past few days. I am on the fence for the Troy Arms AR at Dicks. I have heard/read a lot of good things.

I wanted to get an M1a hunting rifle... but I bet those prices have gone through the roof too :(

[forgop]

Well, all I need now is a stripped lower receiver....the damage thus far was $485 + shipping.

:)

[emopunker2004]

Well, all I need now is a stripped lower receiver....the damage thus far was $485 + shipping.

:)

From where? You get a bolt carrier group?

[PearlS4]

And I remember the days of 60 dollar SKS's and 150 dollar AK's. Boy have times changed.

[spectrrr]

And $100 garands :sad

[Digs]

Well, all I need now is a stripped lower receiver....the damage thus far was $485 + shipping.

:)

I don't think anyone has lowers left over the last couple days....saw some crappy bushmaster & dpms lowers for $300-$400 under normal times there entire rifles aren't worth that :r:r

[Digs]

From where? You get a bolt carrier group?

Since the election there has been a huge run on BC' s not sure what's going on with that :sh

[Digs]

Guns are bad, mmmmmkay.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c67.0.403.403/p403x403/149712_4658500134722_1111810845_n.jpg
I'll just keep these hidden in my garage

What do you have there an L1A1 and G1 kit (or stg58) haha

[spectrrr]

I'm still of the idea that stocking up on mags is the way to go now, even if you don't have a rifle. Hi cap (10+ rnd) mags I think will be the very first to go, pistols and rifles alike. In that issue, the gun community is not united, many of the hunters and "pro gun non-owners" don't think people need a hi cap mag, so that's the softest point of attack IMO.

[spectrrr]

Looking for something similar to an M1a, but possible a little less pricy.

heavy caliber (30 06, 7.62x51mm NATO, or .308 win), mag fed, fairly "common" rifle for ease of parts and maintenance. M1a is GREAT, love one of those... but also pricy. Any suggestions for uhh, less? It should be quality, dependable, and moderately accurate. Fine for hunting, but no need to shoot .5 MOA at 1000000 yards either ;)

Any suggestions? surely the m1a isn't the ONLY good option there.

[Ashcan Bill]

I'm still of the idea that stocking up on mags is the way to go now, even if you don't have a rifle. Hi cap (10+ rnd) mags I think will be the very first to go, pistols and rifles alike. In that issue, the gun community is not united, many of the hunters and "pro gun non-owners" don't think people need a hi cap mag, so that's the softest point of attack IMO.

Yeah, I don't usually hit the panic button, but I was a Boy Scout. Also I remember well what happened in the nineties. I have half a dozen M1 carbine 30 rounders on their way. May start shopping for a few 20s as well.

[emopunker2004]

I'm still of the idea that stocking up on mags is the way to go now, even if you don't have a rifle. Hi cap (10+ rnd) mags I think will be the very first to go, pistols and rifles alike. In that issue, the gun community is not united, many of the hunters and "pro gun non-owners" don't think people need a hi cap mag, so that's the softest point of attack IMO.

Looking for something similar to an M1a, but possible a little less pricy.

heavy caliber (30 06, 7.62x51mm NATO, or .308 win), mag fed, fairly "common" rifle for ease of parts and maintenance. M1a is GREAT, love one of those... but also pricy. Any suggestions for uhh, less? It should be quality, dependable, and moderately accurate. Fine for hunting, but no need to shoot .5 MOA at 1000000 yards either ;)

Any suggestions? surely the m1a isn't the ONLY good option there.

Yep, glad we have 16 30rd mags at home right now. More to come I hope.

You could always get ya an AR-10 or an AR-15 300BLK or 6.8SPC.

[jsnake]

Anyone here interested in trading some 30rd. Pmags or similar for some Viaje cigars? Not too picky. I like Pmags, Troy Industries, Lancer, etc. I also have a flat dark earth ergo grip from a Spike's Enhanced Lower Parts Kit that I will trade. Great and very comfortable grip but I am using a customized MagPul grip. Brand new never used.

[spectrrr]

Yep, glad we have 16 30rd mags at home right now. More to come I hope.

You could always get ya an AR-10 or an AR-15 300BLK or 6.8SPC.

Heading to a show this weekend, hoping I'll find some more mags to pick up.
Last month they were $16 ea for the windowed pmags..... we'll see what they are now :rolleyes:
(I've seen windowless pmags going on gunbroker for as much as $60/ea average lately... NUTS!!!

I've looked at an AR 10 as well... though it seems the decent manufacturers are just as much as the M1a. (I'd prefer not to get a DPMS/bushmaster level)

---------------------------------------

WOW! just read this over at the gunbroker forums. CRAZY!

as of about 5 PM today, Colorado had 5,000 people waiting on background checks for gun purchases.

To put that in perspective on election day 2008 when I bought a gun (which I subsequently lost in a tragic boating incident) there was about 100 people ahead of me with about a 90 minute wait; they're estimating up to 7 days to clear the backlog currently.

there's not an AR-15 within 120 miles of here, if there's any left for sale in the state.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=582461

[jsnake]

I have a local shop that has Lancer Advanced Warfighter Magazines in smoke, black, and flat dark with or without windows for $18 each. Flat dark earth and black Pmags with or without Windows for $20 each. I am flat broke or I would buy them all up.

[emopunker2004]

Francis, the whole NICS system went down today nationwide. People were not being able to have BG checks done for a good portion of the day. Scary.

[spectrrr]

Francis, the whole NICS system went down today nationwide. People were not being able to have BG checks done for a good portion of the day. Scary.

imagine over the weekend, when everyone goes to gunshows around the country?

[emopunker2004]

imagine over the weekend, when everyone goes to gunshows around the country?

doesnt matter here. gun shows are treated as private sales so no NICS check.

[jluck]

How long has DPMS/Bushmaster been affiliated? And why would DPMS be considered a inferior brand?

[emopunker2004]

DPMS and Bushy are fine. Not great but they work.

[spectrrr]

doesnt matter here. gun shows are treated as private sales so no NICS check.

private party sales in gun shows here are treated as private, no checks. But dealer sales require a check, and a large portion of the sales are deal sales at the shows here.

[emopunker2004]

private party sales in gun shows here are treated as private, no checks. But dealer sales require a check, and a large portion of the sales are deal sales at the shows here.

I dont think any dealers here will have stock to sell at the shows :r

[spectrrr]

How long has DPMS/Bushmaster been affiliated? And why would DPMS be considered a inferior brand?

2007, same parent company.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/12/cerberus-acquires-dpms/

As for the why, as Justin said, they'll shoot just fine, and most folks won't have a single problem with em.

I personally am not well versed on the various AR brands and parts, and won't make something up and pretend I am. But a few folks that I personally believe to be knowledgeable in basic gunsmithing, and whose advice I sought and have chosen to pay attention to, all were less than enthusiastic about those particular brands. Certainly not saying you have to be, it's just my own personal choice to heed their advice!

But I also tend to purchase my guns like I purchase my tools, for the ultra long haul. And when I comes to tools, I prefer to buy Snap-On. Now that's not me saying that Craftsmen are shiet, I've never had either brand break on me, and I own stuff from both... I just think Snap-On are worth the couple extra bucks, for what I want.

Guess that makes me a sucker sometimes. Aint we all ;)

[spectrrr]

I dont think any dealers here will have stock to sell at the shows :r

Definitely not AR stock!!!! less menacing looking stuff should be available.

I honestly can't wait to see how many people are roaming the show flor with AR's for $2000+. I just want to see the entertainment, I'll be sure to report back here if i find a DPMS for over $2k :r

On a positive note, I just discovered that MidwayUSA has pmags available to backorder at normal prices. ETA Jan. 29th. .... I think I'm going to post the 5 pmags I have on gunbroker tonight for $300, and order 5 new ones from midway for $80. I can wait a month for a $200 profit (and I'm sure we won't see any hi cap bans before then, lol) :noon :noon

Heck, maybe I'll order a few extra and dump my US GI green follower mags I got as well :)

[emopunker2004]

Definitely not AR stock!!!! less menacing looking stuff should be available.

I honestly can't wait to see how many people are roaming the show flor with AR's for $2000+. I just want to see the entertainment :)

On a positive note, I just discovered that MidwayUSA has pmags available to backorder at normal prices. ETA Jan. 29th. .... I think I'm going to post the 5 pmags I have on gunbroker tonight for $300, and order 5 new ones from midway for $80. I can wait a month for a $200 profit (and I'm sure we won't see any hi cap bans before then, lol) :noon :noon

Heck, maybe I'll order a few extra and dump my US GI green follower mags I got as well :)

Check out DSGarms when their site comes back up :r
They have Pmag 10-pks for $100 and you can backorder them. They're a great company.

[spectrrr]

oh my... I think I just found the most beautiful AR I have ever seen... Work of Art doesn't even begin to describe it!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=322196026


Check out DSGarms when their site comes back up :r
They have Pmag 10-pks for $100 and you can backorder them. They're a great company.

Still down :r :r

My guess it they won't be back up till that deal gets taken down :)

[spectrrr]

I think it might be time to reconsider a Slide-Fire purchase.... no way in hell that wouldn't be listed on any kind of ban. Besides, that on a 22LR AR just looks fun as hell (and affordable to shoot!)

[spectrrr]

DSGarms site is back up :noon

[emopunker2004]

oh my... I think I just found the most beautiful AR I have ever seen... Work of Art doesn't even begin to describe it!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=322196026




Still down :r :r

My guess it they won't be back up till that deal gets taken down :)

Nah DSG is legit. They're great people who don't screw gun owners

[spectrrr]

Nah DSG is legit. They're great people who don't screw gun owners

mm yeah, I was just sayin they were probably getting a crap ton of traffic from it, which was bringing the site down, not because they pulled the plug on the site to stop more orders.

I might just pick up 30 mags... If prices start going down, I can dump 20 of em. If a ban materializes, well... thats a nice profit! either way, WIN.

[emopunker2004]

Yup

[Digs]

How long has DPMS/Bushmaster been affiliated? And why would DPMS be considered a inferior brand?

Jared, they have been sub standard for a long time DPMS/Bushasters/Olympic.
Yes they will go boom when you pull the trigger, but they are are from mil spec I can go into great detail on each and every component if you wish? :D

If i am buying a AR or building a pieces and parts rifle I it's worth it to spend a little more. To say the 3 brands above are equal would be like comparing a Dutch master to Cohiba. :r

[Digs]

I dont think any dealers here will have stock to sell at the shows :r

We have a big gun show this weekend & next weekend I am going to see what's left but prices will be thru the roof. No p-mags for $13 :rolleyes:

[spectrrr]

We have a big gun show this weekend & next weekend I am going to see what's left but prices will be thru the roof. No p-mags for $13 :rolleyes:

I'm wondering if there's going to be people lined up at the door before it opens, waiting to rush in like black Friday shoppers to snag whatever mags might be on the table. :r

We've got about 2-3 big shows a month within a few hours of my area, which is nice... can always "try again" if I don't find what I'm looking for! Right now the only things on the radar I guess are an M1a or an AR10, though I don't have high hopes of finding either!

[PearlS4]

The shows that happen in my area never really have any deals, most things are priced higher than you can find them elsewhere

[dijit]

Rats our next big gun show wont be till Jan 18

[spectrrr]

Rats our next big gun show wont be till Jan 18

Come East to Dayton this weekend. ;)
(I am pretty sure you can buy a gun from a dealer, but private party sales are a no-go to out of state folks)

The shows that happen in my area never really have any deals, most things are priced higher than you can find them elsewhere

I find it depends external things... the dealers usually don't have deals, UNLESS you know what you're looking for. "In the know" people can find things from time to time. Private party deals vary, there's lots of really good deals to be had on that front, depending on the time of year. Early december is a GREAT time usually for cheap private party deals, as people sell to finance the holidays. Or January, when the credit card bills start arriving!!!

[jluck]

2007, same parent company.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/12/cerberus-acquires-dpms/

As for the why, as Justin said, they'll shoot just fine, and most folks won't have a single problem with em.

I personally am not well versed on the various AR brands and parts, and won't make something up and pretend I am. But a few folks that I personally believe to be knowledgeable in basic gunsmithing, and whose advice I sought and have chosen to pay attention to, all were less than enthusiastic about those particular brands. Certainly not saying you have to be, it's just my own personal choice to heed their advice!

But I also tend to purchase my guns like I purchase my tools, for the ultra long haul. And when I comes to tools, I prefer to buy Snap-On. Now that's not me saying that Craftsmen are shiet, I've never had either brand break on me, and I own stuff from both... I just think Snap-On are worth the couple extra bucks, for what I want.

Guess that makes me a sucker sometimes. Ain't we all ;)

Jared, they have been sub standard for a long time DPMS/Bushasters/Olympic.
Yes they will go boom when you pull the trigger, but they are are from mil spec I can go into great detail on each and every component if you wish? :D

If i am buying a AR or building a pieces and parts rifle I it's worth it to spend a little more. To say the 3 brands above are equal would be like comparing a Dutch master to Cohiba. :r

OUCH.
When I did my research years ago DPMS got much better reviews than the other two mentioned company's, The DPMS was considered the best machine for the money back then. (I will have too see if I still have the article). Any how I love mine, it has never let me down with some hard use and abuse I guess this is one more time I will be happy with not having the cool kid brands.:)

[forgop]

Off to a few more gun shops to see about getting a stripped lower ordered.

[spectrrr]

The last page of this article on the '94 ban really made me laugh. And it had some valid points.

.....As it turns out, firearms magazines are both typically very robust and reliable in design, and incredibly easy to mass manufacture. Once made, they last indefinitely.

Between the time Congress started signaling that they would create a magazine capacity restriction and the implementation of the law, factories worked 24 hours a day, 7 days a week churning out millions of nothing but high-capacity magazines, which were stockpiled by manufacturers, distributors, wholesalers, and retailers in massive warehouses.

As a result, “high capacity magazines” for most common firearms were freely available throughout the life of the ban.

....

The law had another unforeseen result. As companies looked to introduce new models of pistols, they determined that if they were going to be forced to make pistols limited to a magazine capacity of just 10 rounds, it would be advantageous for them to make these new pistols as small as possible for the concealed carry market. The Glock 26 and Kahr K9 were introduced the following year, and were among the first of a new breed of powerful, ultra-concealable handguns known as “subcompacts.” Similar designs from other companies quickly followed.

Objectively, based purely on the numbers, the assault weapons ban increased both the number of and public acceptance of semi-automatic, military-style rifles, and created a new class of powerful, concealable handguns.

Put another way, the assault weapons ban not only put more guns into the market, it encouraged the development of smaller, more powerful, semi-automatic firearms.


http://pjmedia.com/blog/assault-weapons-ban/3/


:r :r :r

[Steve]

The last page of this article on the '94 ban really made me laugh. And it had some valid points.

.....As it turns out, firearms magazines are both typically very robust and reliable in design, and incredibly easy to mass manufacture. Once made, they last indefinitely.

Between the time Congress started signaling that they would create a magazine capacity restriction and the implementation of the law, factories worked 24 hours a day, 7 days a week churning out millions of nothing but high-capacity magazines, which were stockpiled by manufacturers, distributors, wholesalers, and retailers in massive warehouses.

As a result, “high capacity magazines” for most common firearms were freely available throughout the life of the ban.

....

The law had another unforeseen result. As companies looked to introduce new models of pistols, they determined that if they were going to be forced to make pistols limited to a magazine capacity of just 10 rounds, it would be advantageous for them to make these new pistols as small as possible for the concealed carry market. The Glock 26 and Kahr K9 were introduced the following year, and were among the first of a new breed of powerful, ultra-concealable handguns known as “subcompacts.” Similar designs from other companies quickly followed.

Objectively, based purely on the numbers, the assault weapons ban increased both the number of and public acceptance of semi-automatic, military-style rifles, and created a new class of powerful, concealable handguns.

Put another way, the assault weapons ban not only put more guns into the market, it encouraged the development of smaller, more powerful, semi-automatic firearms.


http://pjmedia.com/blog/assault-weapons-ban/3/


:r :r :r

Anyone remember (or has at least read about) the 18th Amendment? From what I understand, it didn't really limit alchohol, just made a bunch of law abiding citizens criminals.

When we ignore history, we are doomed to repeat it.:fp

[Digs]

Off to a few more gun shops to see about getting a stripped lower ordered.


They have become the Holy Grail, along with bolt carrier groups! I need one for my Colt; I had a .22 conversion in it for while now I don’t know were my M16 carrier is! :sh

[Brian D.]

I'm wondering if there's going to be people lined up at the door before it opens, waiting to rush in like black Friday shoppers to snag whatever mags might be on the table. :r

We've got about 2-3 big shows a month within a few hours of my area, which is nice... can always "try again" if I don't find what I'm looking for! Right now the only things on the radar I guess are an M1a or an AR10, though I don't have high hopes of finding either!

I saw pictures of the LONG line of folks outside Sharonville Convention center from last Saturday waiting to get in. Went by there on Sunday (didn't bother attending) and it was crowding up again by 10 am. No doubt the same will be true at beautiful Hara Arena this coming weekend.

Personally I'd rather avoid such nonsense. The Treasure Aisles/Patriot Gun Show held near Monroe on Saturdays is a better choice in my book, as is Schomy's Swap Meet in Middletown. But then, I'm not looking to add anything much to what I've already got.

[forgop]

I am finding that some shops won't even allow me to place an order with full acceptance that it may be months before I ever get it. Crazy that they're not even willing to take and hold onto my money now.

[Digs]

I am finding that some shops won't even allow me to place an order with full acceptance that it may be months before I ever get it. Crazy that they're not even willing to take and hold onto my money now.

I thinks it's more likely they don't know were the market price will be!
Most would be secretly steemed if they sold you a receiver for a $100 and at that moment they were able to get $300 or good knows how much.

[PearlS4]

Trying to load up on guns and ammo now is akin to waiting until the day it snows to show up at the tire store and try to get snow tires. Should have had all that stuff packed away by now. Shortly after the original AWB expired I loaded up on all the stuff I could, and the stuff that was unobtainium during the ban. It was going to only be a matter of time before they outlawed it all again.

[Remo]

Reminds me a little of 08' when we got a new prez. I grabbed 5 NIB Colt 6920's...before the prices went through the roof!!

[forgop]

Trying to load up on guns and ammo now is akin to waiting until the day it snows to show up at the tire store and try to get snow tires. Should have had all that stuff packed away by now.

Yeah, I know. I just got particularly po'd seeing these clowns advocating and now putting a timeframe on a new ban to take place, so I decided to take action. You always hear it being discussed, but it's a guarantee that if he can't get it through congress, he'll just go the EO route. To go from what was regarded as a tearful speech the day of last week's shooting and then speaking of bans before the funerals is just another knee jerk reaction.

That said, I put my snow plow on my ZTR a month ago to ward off all snow for the winter. :r

[PearlS4]

I had planned on this administration banning them in the first term, so there has been a bit of extra time. Homeowner plows were a way of life when I lived in AK

[pnoon]

Yeah, I know. I just got particularly po'd seeing these clowns advocating and now putting a timeframe on a new ban to take place, so I decided to take action. You always hear it being discussed, but it's a guarantee that if he can't get it through congress, he'll just go the EO route. To go from what was regarded as a tearful speech the day of last week's shooting and then speaking of bans before the funerals is just another knee jerk reaction.

That said, I put my snow plow on my ZTR a month ago to ward off all snow for the winter. :r

I realize the sensitivity of the subject matter but let's try and keep the politics out of it.

First and last time I'll post this here.

[forgop]

I had planned on this administration banning them in the first term, so there has been a bit of extra time. Homeowner plows were a way of life when I lived in AK

Deleted

[Subvet642]

The wife is bringing permit applications home tonight. We're thinking about a 12 gauge pump for home defense.

[forgop]

The wife is bringing permit applications home tonight. We're thinking about a 12 gauge pump for home defense.

You need a permit for that?

[Remo]

The wife is bringing permit applications home tonight. We're thinking about a 12 gauge pump for home defense.

Permit for a 12 gauge :sh

[Steve]

Yeah, I know. I just got particularly po'd seeing these clowns advocating and now putting a timeframe on a new ban to take place, so I decided to take action. You always hear it being discussed, but it's a guarantee that if he can't get it through congress, he'll just go the EO route. To go from what was regarded as a tearful speech the day of last week's shooting and then speaking of bans before the funerals is just another knee jerk reaction.

I am not a Constitutional Law expert, but I'm not sure he can actually EO this. However, I'm sure there are other ways of getting it pushed thru.

[PearlS4]

The wife is bringing permit applications home tonight. We're thinking about a 12 gauge pump for home defense.

12 gauge pump shotgun is a perfect home defense weapon. Heavy hitting, easy to handle, ammo is plentiful. No home should be without one, in my book it's as essential as a fridge or water heater.

[Subvet642]

Permit for a 12 gauge :sh

FID card; I live in Massachusetts. :sh

[Remo]

FID card; I live in Massachusetts. :sh

Gotcha...according to some place that keeps track of the gun laws in this country, on a scale of 0-100...0 being the most gun friendly...Utah, Arizona and Alaska are 0...for law abiding citizens :tu

[Steve]

Gotcha...according to some place that keeps track of the gun laws in this country, on a scale of 0-100...0 being the most gun friendly...Utah, Arizona and Alaska are 0...for law abiding citizens :tu

Hummm...I wonder if Mike would like a new neighbor?

At one time I thought about moving to Alaska but after my accident in the Keys I don't warm up as quickly as I used too.

I'm not sure where Florida lands on Mikes list, but I have heard us refered to as the Gunshine State.

[Remo]

Hummm...I wonder if Mike would like a new neighbor?

At one time I thought about moving to Alaska but after my accident in the Keys I don't warm up as quickly as I used too.

I'm not sure where Florida lands on Mikes list, but I have heard us refered to as the Gunshine State.

I think Florida is pretty good Steve. I love Utah's gun laws, and still think that every law abiding, non mentally ill person who can legally and responsibly carry a gun (and actually use it if necessary) should always be armed. I think there are alot of people who carry that don't have the minsdet to actually use it, thinking that just showing someone that they are armed will do the trick, I am sure their headstone will read that.

[Subvet642]

12 gauge pump shotgun is a perfect home defense weapon. Heavy hitting, easy to handle, ammo is plentiful. No home should be without one, in my book it's as essential as a fridge or water heater.

When I was still in the Navy, we used them for shipboard defense below decks. You don't want to put a 7.62 or a .45 round through a high pressure oxygen or hydraulic line.

[Steve]

I think Florida is pretty good Steve. I love Utah's gun laws, and still think that every law abiding, non mentally ill person who can legally and responsibly carry a gun (and actually use it if necessary) should always be armed. I think there are alot of people who carry that don't have the minsdet to actually use it, thinking that just showing someone that they are armed will do the trick, I am sure their headstone will read that.

Agreed. Several times the issue of open carry has come up here, but I don't think it will ever pass though. There is a stipulation that you can openly carry on your way fishing or hunting.

Thank goodness for the Ronco Pocket Fisherman :)

http://www.mikeysoft.com/all_stuff_good/images3/mvc-224s.jpg

We also have pretty good concealled carry laws and the right to protect yourself, unless this mess with GZ blow that all up. Unfortunatly, Florida has hordes of uneducated people that think Stand Your Ground means someone can hunt someone else down :bh

[Remo]

We are a big open carry state, we have a few open carry guys who like to try and push the cops into a confrontation so they can get a lawsuit. :sh

Easy enough to get a CCW also.

[CigarSquid]

12 gauge pump shotgun is a perfect home defense weapon. Heavy hitting, easy to handle, ammo is plentiful. No home should be without one, in my book it's as essential as a fridge or water heater.

Was having that same talk with my dad last night.. It is on the list come the new year.

[SeanGAR]

Gotcha...according to some place that keeps track of the gun laws in this country, on a scale of 0-100...0 being the most gun friendly...Utah, Arizona and Alaska are 0...for law abiding citizens :tu

How could they be more gun friendly than Virginia?

OC no permit needed, CC 'shall issue', but the problem here is the 'gun free' zones like universities.

Here at VT if we have another Cho, I get to point a laser pointer at the shooter, not my Glock. I might buy a mW laser just to have something worth pointing.

A guy in town here decided to bang on the window of his ex-wife's house .. the ex-wife he attacked with a knife 6 years earlier.

This time, new boyfriend had a gun and shot the prick three times. Prick survived and charged with home invasion, shooter no charges.

[forgop]

Awesome-someone posted a petition for metal detectors to be installed at schools. Yeah, that would have stopped a kid shooting the glass out of the door for entry. That audible alarm would have turned him around in no time.

[spectrrr]

Awesome-someone posted a petition for metal detectors to be installed at schools. Yeah, that would have stopped a kid shooting the glass out of the door for entry. That audible alarm would have turned him around in no time.

There are a number of articles out there that basically demonstrate that with all the extra security we're simply criminalizing kids petty actions, making school less inviting, and encouraging them to make less productive choices and outcomes in their lives.

On the subject of getting your lower, honestly, I wouldn't sweat it yet. It's not like an AW ban will "sail through" unobstructed. It took em nearly 5 years of slogging and burning political capital to get the last one passed. So if if this one takes a year, prices will go down in march, people will forget, and you can buy what you want, before prices go back up again more permanently.

[dijit]

Awesome-someone posted a petition for metal detectors to be installed at schools. Yeah, that would have stopped a kid shooting the glass out of the door for entry. That audible alarm would have turned him around in no time.

That just would have brought more targets into the hallway. More adults probably so maybe fewer children would have been killed.

[forgop]

There are a number of articles out there that basically demonstrate that with all the extra security we're simply criminalizing kids petty actions, making school less inviting, and encouraging them to make less productive choices and outcomes in their lives.

On the subject of getting your lower, honestly, I wouldn't sweat it yet. It's not like an AW ban will "sail through" unobstructed. It took em nearly 5 years of slogging and burning political capital to get the last one passed. So if if this one takes a year, prices will go down in march, people will forget, and you can buy what you want, before prices go back up again more permanently.

I have 4 different lowers all from different manufacturers on backorder right now. No local retailer would allow me to backorder, so I bought online with those that would allow me to backorder and will just wait it out. I'm not getting into these bidding wars of paying 3x what they were going for 2 weeks ago. I've gone 38 years without owning an AR-15, so I don't have the desire to pay 2-3x the price overnight. One site said backorder is 8-12 weeks and the order I placed for 30 round mags was about 6 weeks.

[forgop]

That just would have brought more targets into the hallway. More adults probably so maybe fewer children would have been killed.

I'm not an NRA member and have never held a carry permit. But it's painfully obvious to see that more people die when someone is able to open fire in a crowd of unarmed people waiting for the police to respond to all of the 911 calls.

[Blueface]

Got one of the last on Tuesday.
Armalite AR10 on the way.
Figure with that, I can pop them long before they hit the range for my AR15.
Should be in my hands soon.
Now for the difficult task of finding ammo and extra 20+ mags.

[Blueface]

For those not familiar with the AR10 format.
The smaller of these two is the AR15 round (.223/5.56).
The other is the AR10 .308 Winchester NATO.
Will definitely leave a mark.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/250AF1BA-88A9-445E-8AB0-26F4AFB1A8BE-22406-00000E2B39E53510.jpg