Red's Fans Check in

[chippewastud79]

How do you feel about Stubbs in the 2 spot? He is batting .250 and slugging .300, how do you put him in the 2 spot? He is only 16 K's from 200 and if Phillips isn't on base, he is absolutely worthess in the 2 spot. Again leaving Votto batting with the bases empty and 2 outs. Not a fan of putting Stubbs anywhere higher than 7. :td


Also of note: Willis has a average that is .150 higher than Stubbs and got the same number of hits and none of the strikeouts. :hm

[Starscream]

They just don't like supporting Willis I think :td
I'm starting to think that's the case.
How do you feel about Stubbs in the 2 spot? He is batting .250 and slugging .300, how do you put him in the 2 spot? He is only 16 K's from 200 and if Phillips isn't on base, he is absolutely worthess in the 2 spot. Again leaving Votto batting with the bases empty and 2 outs. Not a fan of putting Stubbs anywhere higher than 7. :td


Also of note: Willis has a average that is .150 higher than Stubbs and got the same number of hits and none of the strikeouts. :hm

Only place that Stubbs should be at in this lineup is in the 6-8 spot, and in the nine spot when Leake and Willis are hitting. The problem is, I don't know who I would put in the two hole. Dusty likes to put his SSs out there, but Janish is what, 0-28 of late?

[elderboy02]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger:banger:banger:banger:tu

[icehog3]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger:banger:banger:tu

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/congrats.jpg

[waffle]

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/congrats.jpg

i LOVE it!!!!! YEAH TOM! And I believe what Dan meant to say is "Joey Votto saves the day yet again... what are the Reds going to do when he's outta here????"

[elderboy02]

EDIT: Nevermind.

[icehog3]

EDIT: Nevermind.

EDIT: :wo :banger

[waffle]

EDIT: :wo :banger

EDIT: Tom's poor Cubbies.... just be happy its not a 5 team division because at least they're not in last place ;)

[icehog3]

EDIT: Tom's poor Cubbies.... just be happy its not a 5 team division because at least they're not in last place ;)

But my Tigers are in 1st! :wo :banger


P.S.....Dan, you know we love you. :)

[waffle]

But my Tigers are in 1st! :wo :banger


P.S.....Dan, you know we love you. :)



Beats my Reds.... and yes Dan, we love you, mine wasn't a shot at you, it was a shot at blowing the lead in the bottom of the 9th... and having to hop on the back of possibly the best player in the NL .... AGAIN.... I'm really going to miss him in two years when he moves back to Toronto to be the white Joe Carter, smiling rounding the bases in the World Series ;)

http://bigmouthsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/joe-carters-elation-25-october-2010.jpg

[waffle]

Only place that Stubbs should be at in this lineup is in the 6-8 spot, and in the nine spot when Leake and Willis are hitting. The problem is, I don't know who I would put in the two hole. Dusty likes to put his SSs out there, but Janish is what, 0-28 of late?


Just bat 8, let them take an out at 2... at least that way youre not hitting into a dp!

[Starscream]

I feel bad for Leake that one pitch ruined his complete game. Helluva job by the kid and I look forward to seeing him in the rotation for next year.

[Starscream]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger:banger:banger:banger:tu

After that game, I'm with ya on that one, Dan!

[chippewastud79]

Stubbs has 19 games to get 15 K's for 200. He has been moving up the All-Time ranks fast. 16th already and only 5 more to make the top 10. He is only 10 from the Reds record and has an outside shot at finishing in the top 3 All-time. :td

Also of note, he didn't start game 2 and they won, starts game 1 and 3 and they lost. :hm

[elderboy02]

...
Also of note, he didn't start game 2 and they won, starts game 1 and 3 and they lost. :hm

Also of note, Wrigley Field looks cool with all the ivy :tu

[waffle]

Stubbs has 19 games to get 15 K's for 200. He has been moving up the All-Time ranks fast. 16th already and only 5 more to make the top 10. He is only 10 from the Reds record and has an outside shot at finishing in the top 3 All-time. :td

Also of note, he didn't start game 2 and they won, starts game 1 and 3 and they lost. :hm

I'm hoping he makes it to top 5 in all honesty, its giving me something to cheer for over the next 2+ weeks! I'd love to see him set the new record (for the Reds, no way he makes it to 233)!!!

Also of note, Wrigley Field looks cool with all the ivy :tu

And its WAAAYYYYY safer!

[Starscream]

I'm hoping he makes it to top 5 in all honesty, its giving me something to cheer for over the next 2+ weeks! I'd love to see him set the new record (for the Reds, no way he makes it to 233)!!!



And its WAAAYYYYY safer!

I'm rooting for 200 myself.:)

[waffle]

I'm rooting for 200 myself.:)

OOOhhh when I'm half in the bag on the 17th... Im going to cheer LOUDLY for the good ole D. Stubbs Backwards K.... all my friends will be confused.

[elderboy02]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger:banger:banger:banger:banger

[icehog3]

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/b_fellow.jpg

I'm Brian Fellow!!

[icehog3]

Inge walk off homer with 2 outs in the 9th! :banger :banger :banger :banger :banger

[Starscream]

Inge walk off homer with 2 outs in the 9th! :banger :banger :banger :banger :banger
woot woot?

[Starscream]

I will try one more time here, but so far it has been to no avail. At the end of the day we are all REDS fans. Some are negative, some are OVERTLY POSITIVE. But at the end of the day, we still love and BLEED Cincinnati RED. Is being a homer so bad? We need "homers" to buy tickets, and we need regular fans to buy tickets and merchandise so BC can legitimately say that he can up the payroll and that may (may, not guaranteed) help him to decide to increase payroll so we have a shot at making the playoffs again. Next year is our only shot to make it for a while to come, so if we don't support BC this year and in the offseason, then we are gonna be SOL for years to come.



So what I'm asking is this: can we all just get along, whether we think one fan in here is a homer or not? Agree to disagree, but don't belittle or single out one person in this thread b/c we think that he is too positive/not as skeptical as us or whatever the case may be. I hate to see one Reds fan hit the ignore button on other Reds fans b/c of this.

Don't get me wrong, I've piled on too at one point or another , but it's gone too far at this point. I've meant it as harmless fun, and I assume that others have meant the same, but I really think that feelings have started to become hurt (even though it's just an internet thread), and I don't think that's in the true spirit of Cigar Asylum. We all came here to be friends and enjoy friendships with one another, whether that's in person or just through online usernames, but the fact of the matter is that we all want to be friends and kind to one another. I even got a rep bump at some point for "piling on ___". Not knocking that person at all, don't get me wrong. I thought it was funny at the time, but I didn't realize that it hurt one here.


Sorry for the long post, but can we just agree to be REDS fans at this point? I'm not saying to not disagree with each other. I've actually loved the fact that Adam and I have disagreed over points and have had legitimate baseball debates/discussions. I don't want to see that end, but I do want to see the belittling come to an end toward one poster. It doesn't just effect him, it has effected two or three other posters from participating in this thread. I haven't mentioned names, but we all know who and what this post is about. I am giving it one more attempt to bring peace between Reds fans. Homer, skeptic, average fan, or one who has been used to being BS'ed around since 1995 or before, at the end of the day, we are all REDS fans, and I hope that we all can post and enjoy this place, whether it's discussion on Stubbs' failures, five smilies when the Reds win or whatever.

Please don't anyone take this the wrong way. I love everyone who posts in here: Adam, Waffle, Hugh, Dan, and even that Douchebag who likes the Cubbies.:) I just want us to ALL get along and be true Cigar Asylum members at the end of the day.

Thanks,
Andy

[elderboy02]

I am on board Andy :tu I don't even have anyone on my ignore list anymore. I take what certain people say with a grain of salt now.

[elderboy02]

By the way, did anyone realize that Cordero became the all time saves leader for a Dominican born player? Pretty cool in my opinion because that country lives and dies for baseball :tu

[elderboy02]

Here are the pics from the game a couple weeks ago:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z282/elderboy02/2011-09-01_13-19-53_87.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z282/elderboy02/2011-09-01_13-20-07_41.jpg

[Starscream]

Looks like attendance numbers at a Marlins game.:r

[elderboy02]

Looks like attendance numbers at a Marlins game.:r

That was at the start of the game. It filled in a couple innings later. Remember, it was a day game.

[Starscream]

Phillips needs to be signed long term. No one year option.

[elderboy02]

Phillips needs to be signed long term. No one year option.

Absolutely. Like you said, he is the face of the franchise. If you get rid of Phillips, I cannot imagine how many hits would get thru the right side.

[Starscream]

Anybody see Fransico's HR last night?

[elderboy02]

Anybody see Fransico's HR last night?

I did not. I had to work late and then I watched some football. How was it?

[Starscream]

I did not. I had to work late and then I watched some football. How was it?

Over 500 ft. First to ever go over the Moon Deck.

I'm not big on the guy personally, but that was a helluva hit.

[elderboy02]

Over 500 ft. First to ever go over the Moon Deck.

I'm not big on the guy personally, but that was a helluva hit.

Very nice! :tu

[chippewastud79]

Over 500 ft. First to ever go over the Moon Deck.

I'm not big on the guy personally, but that was a helluva hit.

It was stupid far. Apparently hit a tree and some of the security officers found it in the street. Didn't make it to the river like Adam Dunn's 500+ footer did a few years back. :tu

[Starscream]

Speaking of Dunn, he's about to set a new record, I believe:

.162 batting average, 160 strikeouts
Needs to more Ks for his strikeout number to be higher than his batting average.:r

I think that might be a first (not sure) for a guy who has had enough at bats to contend for a batting title.

[chippewastud79]

Speaking of Dunn, he's about to set a new record, I believe:

.162 batting average, 160 strikeouts
Needs to more Ks for his strikeout number to be higher than his batting average.:r

I think that might be a first (not sure) for a guy who has had enough at bats to contend for a batting title.

Speaking of strikeouts, Stubbs is only 10 away from 200. Not bad for a guy who is supposed to be a leadoff hitter vs. a guy who is supposed to be a power hitter. Maybe Dusty will sit him down the stretch to keep him from making it to 200. :hm

[hotreds]

Speaking of Dunn, he's about to set a new record, I believe:

.162 batting average, 160 strikeouts
Needs to more Ks for his strikeout number to be higher than his batting average.:r

I think that might be a first (not sure) for a guy who has had enough at bats to contend for a batting title.

Would be 2nd time. I think Rob Deer was the 1st and only.

[elderboy02]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger :tu :banger :tu :banger

[chippewastud79]

Would be 2nd time. I think Rob Deer was the 1st and only.

Rob Deer and Mark Reynolds were both close, but both had a slightly higher average.

[icehog3]

The latest losing streak has ended, I see. :r

[chippewastud79]

The latest losing streak has ended, I see. :r

Just trying to cement a 3rd place finish as the defending division champs. :tu

[waffle]

Just trying to cement a 3rd place finish as the defending division champs. :tu

They may even make it back to .500 woohoo! On a Tom note... really????

http://deadspin.com/5840139/this-is-just-the-saddest-tigers-headline-ever

Are the Tigs winning the division?

[icehog3]

Are the Tigs winning the division?

One of two divisions in the Majors they could win. The other one, the Reds play in. :r

[Starscream]

Would be 2nd time. I think Rob Deer was the 1st and only.

Rob Deer was close, but was off by four Ks from the stats I'm looking at.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/deerro01.shtml

[chippewastud79]

Rob Deer and Mark Reynolds were both close, but both had a slightly higher average.

Rob Deer was close, but was off by four Ks from the stats I'm looking at.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/deerro01.shtml

;)

[Starscream]

They may even make it back to .500 woohoo! On a Tom note... really????

http://deadspin.com/5840139/this-is-just-the-saddest-tigers-headline-ever

Are the Tigs winning the division?

I was hoping we would at least make it back to above .500, so we could at least say we had back to back winning seasons for once, but it looks like that's not gonna happen either.

[Starscream]

;)

Woops. Didn't see that you beat me to it, Adam.:)

[chippewastud79]

Woops. Didn't see that you beat me to it, Adam.:)

:tu

[Starscream]

Possible good news for Cubs fans. They may possibly be interested in Walt Jocketty for their GM next year. He hasn't done much for the Reds, but he's got a decent track record when working with teams who can pony up some cash (Cardinals).

[elderboy02]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger:banger:banger:banger:tu

[icehog3]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger:banger:tu

That means Cubs lose, right? :lr

No matter to me, Tigers are in the playoffs. :D

[chippewastud79]

Drew Stubbs beats the Cubs! Jay Bruce for MVP! :tu :banger :r

Reds beat the Cubs 3 out of 4 :wo :sh

[elderboy02]

Reds win! Reds win! :noon:tu-(P:banger:noon

[icehog3]

Reds beat the Cubs 3 out of 4 :wo :sh

Quite difficult not to. ;) :lr

[Starscream]

Quite difficult not to. ;) :lr

Whatchyoutalkinbout, Willis?

We can't win a series against the ASStros, so I'm surprised we took this series.

[icehog3]

Whatchyoutalkinbout, Willis?

We can't win a series against the ASStros, so I'm surprised we took this series.

The Cubs couldn't win a series against a high school softball team.

[waffle]

The Cubs couldn't win a series against a high school softball team.

Well then the Reds would definitely be a High School Softball team, the were 3 for 5 in series against the Cubbies.... just saying ;)

[icehog3]

I said the Cubs couldn't win a series against a HS team, Steve. ;)

[waffle]

I said the Cubs couldn't win a series against a HS team, Steve. ;)

But they beat The Reds in 2 Series!!!! Thats REAL not good... especially for winning the division the previous year and not really losing anyone...

[icehog3]

But they beat The Reds in 2 Series!!!! Thats REAL not good... especially for winning the division the previous year and not really losing anyone...

Yeah, the Reds suck too. :lr

[chippewastud79]

Yeah, the Reds suck too. :lr

Don't let Dan read that blasphemy in this thread. :td

[chippewastud79]

Is it possible that Dusty is trying to keep Stubbs from ending up with 200+ K's? He has been getting a lot of days off recently, despite not sitting at all early in the season (read: ALL season) when he completely sucks. :hm

[Starscream]

Is it possible that Dusty is trying to keep Stubbs from ending up with 200+ K's? He has been getting a lot of days off recently, despite not sitting at all early in the season (read: ALL season) when he completely sucks. :hm

I'd say it's quite possible that's what Dusty's doing. But if he truly wanted to do that, we should be seeing more of the callups out there. I don't like Sappelt that much, but since the season's over anyway, it would be nice to get an extended look at him.

[chippewastud79]

Reds were officially eliminated from the Wild Card last night. I thought they were officially eliminated when the season started. :hm

[chippewastud79]

I'd say it's quite possible that's what Dusty's doing. But if he truly wanted to do that, we should be seeing more of the callups out there. I don't like Sappelt that much, but since the season's over anyway, it would be nice to get an extended look at him.

I think he deserves to swing for the fences and miss, well, more like watch strikes fly by him. If he had the AB's he would be well past 200 by now. :tu

[icehog3]

Reds were officially eliminated from the Wild Card last night. I thought they were officially eliminated when the season started. :hm

:dance::<:noon:=:

[Starscream]

I think he deserves to swing for the fences and miss, well, more like watch strikes fly by him. If he had the AB's he would be well past 200 by now. :tu

Do you read Daugherty's column at the Enquirer, Adam? He likes to keep bringing up Stubbs' stats vs. Heisey's stats. Heisey has more RBIs and HRs than Stubbs with less than half the plate appearances. Kinda makes me wonder. :hm

[chippewastud79]

Do you read Daugherty's column at the Enquirer, Adam? He likes to keep bringing up Stubbs' stats vs. Heisey's stats. Heisey has more RBIs and HRs than Stubbs with less than half the plate appearances. Kinda makes me wonder. :hm

Just saw it. It is a wonder why Stubbs plays so much despite his inability to be effective given so many plate appearances. :sh

I just saw a stat that he has 15 HR's away from GABP, that includes 4 at Wrigley where the wind can straight carry them out. :hm

Dusty has promised not to sit Stubbs and Arroyo down the stretch, but he has already cut down on his AB's and hasn't pinch hit/run him when he doesn't start. Dusty likely doesn't like looking like a moron, given that Stubbs is supposed to be the best leadoff hitter since Rickey. :td

[chippewastud79]

197! Reds record, alone at the top! Tied for 7th all-time! At least he can be the league leader in something. :banger :tu :noon

[chippewastud79]

"We didn't get a lot of runs, we didn't get a lot of hits." Great insight Dusty. :bh

[icehog3]

"We didn't get a lot of runs, we didn't get a lot of hits." Great insight Dusty. :bh

I heard that quote often when he managed the Cubs. :lr

[Starscream]

I heard that quote often when he managed the Cubs. :lr

Maybe you will be blessed to hear it again in Chicago one day?

Wishful thinking on my part, Tom.:r

[chippewastud79]

Stubbs adds another one, 2 away from 200. 5 hits, 14 K's in his last 10 games, finishing with a fury. :tu

[icehog3]

Did the Reds Win?! Did the Reds Win?! :banger :D :noon :D :banger

[chippewastud79]

Did the Reds Win?! Did the Reds Win?! :banger :D :noon :D

Did you notice any other posts with 5 smilies? :hm

[icehog3]

Did you notice any other posts with 5 smilies?

How about today?! :banger :D :noon :D :banger

[chippewastud79]

How about today?! :banger :D :noon :

Its been only about 7 games this month that Dan could post about. :rolleyes:

I'm just hoping Stubbs can crack 200 tonight against the worst team in baseball. :tu

[Starscream]

I say number 200 will be a fastball right down the gut and he'll just stand there and watch it go by.

[elderboy02]

And this one belongs to the Reds! :noon:banger:tu:banger:noon

[icehog3]

And this one belongs to the Reds! :noon:banger:banger:noon

5 more in a row for .500! :wnr

[chippewastud79]

Stubbs makes it to 200 :tu :banger :noon :chr

[icehog3]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger :D :wnr :D :banger

[chippewastud79]

Reds Win :banger :tu :D :noon :dance:

[chippewastud79]

Not surprisingly, Stubbs sits again. Dusty is definitely trying to prevent him from getting that K total too high by giving him games off down the stretch. Let the guy strike out, why are you preventing him from doing so? :td

I see Heisey added to his RBI lead over Stubbs today too despite 329 less AB's. Its astonishing that Dusty can't put the most competitive team onthe field. If they would put hype aside and play the best team, they could almost have an above .500 team. :hm

[elderboy02]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger :tu :banger :noon :tu

[chippewastud79]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger

Reds Win :dance:

Reds win! Reds win! :tu

http://www.free-avatars.com/data/media/7/Homer-head-slap.jpg

[icehog3]

Not surprisingly, Stubbs sits again. Dusty is definitely trying to prevent him from getting that K total too high by giving him games off down the stretch.

Maybe Dusty is resting him for the playoffs?

:banger :tu :noon :banger :tu

[Starscream]

It's official. We're gonna finish below .500 for the year (as if we already didn't know).

[icehog3]

It's official. We're gonna finish below .500 for the year (as if we already didn't know).

:banger :D :D :banger :confused:

[chippewastud79]

It's official. We're gonna finish below .500 for the year (as if we already didn't know).

I thought that was official on opening day :gary

[chippewastud79]

Drew Stubbs adds two more, and some how walked twice. :tu

[icehog3]

No Dan....Reds lose?

[Starscream]

No Dan....Reds lose?

correctamundo

[Starscream]

I thought that was official on opening day :gary
Even w/o any upgrades in the offseason, I still had some hope up until the All-Star break.

[Starscream]

:banger :D :banger :confused:

:tg



Serious question, Admiral. Since you obviously root for two teams (Cubbies and Tigers), which is your real #1? If I had to guess, it would be Detroit, but I'm not 100%. Congrats either way on them winning the AL Central.

[elderboy02]

Is the season over yet? Good Lord this season has been painful to watch... I am focused on the Bungles now.

[Starscream]

Is the season over yet? Man alive, I am focused on the Bungles now.

Almost. Offseason should be busy according to Jocketty. He promises that payroll will go up and that this offseason should be MUCH busier than last.

And don't feel bad. I've been more focused on Cam and Smitty lately, so the Reds are the least of my worries right now. Maybe we'll get our first win this year against Jax.

[elderboy02]

Almost. Offseason should be busy according to Jocketty. He promises that payroll will go up and that this offseason should be MUCH busier than last.

And don't feel bad. I've been more focused on Cam and Smitty lately, so the Reds are the least of my worries right now. Maybe we'll get our first win this year against Jax.

Yeah, I would love to see us get an ace, but I was listening to the Reds on Friday and Mark Sheldon from MLB.com said the only ace on the free market is C.J. Wilson and he will go to a big market team b/c the Reds won't have enough money to offer him.

I would love to see us get a big bat to put into the lineup to take some pressure off of Votto/Bruce.

[icehog3]

:tg



Serious question, Admiral. Since you obviously root for two teams (Cubbies and Tigers), which is your real #1? If I had to guess, it would be Detroit, but I'm not 100%. Congrats either way on them winning the AL Central.

Tigers, yes Andy. When I moved to Chicago (even when we'd visit before I left Detroit), Wrigley Field provided some great memories, so I root for the Cubs in the National League, but I've been a Tigers fan since '67. I can still name the line-up for the '68 WS victors.

Chicago is my adopted home though, and I even root for the White Sox to do well in years that they make the playoffs and the Tigers don't. I guess coming from a "one-team town", I can't really understand the hatred between the Cubs and Sox fans.

[Starscream]

Tigers, yes Andy. When I moved to Chicago (even when we'd visit before I left Detroit), Wrigley Field provided some great memories, so I root for the Cubs in the National League, but I've been a Tigers fan since '67. I can still name the line-up for the '68 WS victors.

Chicago is my adopted home though, and I even root for the White Sox to do well in years that they make the playoffs and the Tigers don't. I guess coming from a "one-team town", I can't really understand the hatred between the Cubs and Sox fans.
I don't get it either. Same for the yanks and mets. All of NY are Yankees fans, but if the Mets are in the WS, then they are Mets fans.:sh
I used to try to have an AL team that I rooted for, and I did when Griffey was a Mariner, but I just can't pull myself to do it nowadays. The Reds have always been number one for me, and they're all I have now.

[icehog3]

I don't get it either. Same for the yanks and mets. All of NY are Yankees fans, but if the Mets are in the WS, then they are Mets fans.:sh
I used to try to have an AL team that I rooted for, and I did when Griffey was a Mariner, but I just can't pull myself to do it nowadays. The Reds have always been number one for me, and they're all I have now.

Understood. If I had to pick just one, it would be the Tigers.

Hopefully better days ahead for Reds fans. :)

[elderboy02]

Reds win! Reds win! :banger :tu :banger :tu :noon

[icehog3]

Reds win! Reds win!

They should be winning some golf games by Thursday! :banger :tu :banger :tu :noon

[chippewastud79]

If these last few weeks aren't enough to convince the powers that be that Heisey is a much better player than Stubbs, I don't know what is. Stubbs is sitting down the stretch on account of his record breaking strikeouts and general crappiness, Heisey has as many hits as Stubbs has in his last 15 games in the last two. :hm


Oh and:

Reds Win! Reds Win! (Insert 5 emoticons)

2 games to golfing. :banger

[icehog3]

Reds Win! Reds Win! (Insert 5 emoticons)



http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/blindsquirrel.jpg

[elderboy02]

And this one belongs to the Reds! :noon:noon:banger:banger:tu

[icehog3]

I am really looking forward to Thursday. :r

[elderboy02]

I am really looking forward to Thursday. :r

So you don't have to be reminded how bad the Cubs suck? :r :=: ;s

[icehog3]

So you don't have to be reminded how bad the Cubs suck? :r :=: ;s

Nope, so I can see the Tigers in the playoffs.

Speaking of sucking, the Reds ain't exactly a contender either!! :wo :lr

[elderboy02]

Very true Admiral! :r:noon:banger:tu;)

[Starscream]

They should be winning some golf games by Thursday! :banger :tu :banger :tu :noon


2 games to golfing.

Some, such as Stubbs, better be playing winterball instead of golf.

[chippewastud79]

Time to hit the links. There goes the two game win streak. :(

Stubbs finishes the season strong batting .189 with 27 K's in September. I wish Dusty didn't sit him down the stretch to see how many he truly could have gotten. He could have easily been in second place all time. 7 hits in his final 15 games, and that includes two 3 hit games. :td

Now as the Reds move to the offseason, their needs include:
LEADOFF HITTER - Stubbs is NOT the answer, put him at 8 and watch him bat .260
Left fielder - Heisey should get the starts in CF, so maybe hide Stubbs there
Closer - Please don't bring back CoCo, his defense saves more games than he does
Ace - The bottom of their rotation sucks and there is no go to guy
A bat to protect Votto - Preferably on either side, Stubbs is not the answer in the 2 spot either

There are obviously many more issues, besides that they got lucky to win the division last year. :hm

[elderboy02]

Hopefully we make some good moves in the offseason. Come on Jocketty/Castellini :tu

[icehog3]

White Sux "superstar" Adam Dunn ended with a .159 batting average and 177 Ks in 415 At Bats if it makes you feel any better, Adam. ;)

[elderboy02]

White Sux "superstar" Adam Dunn ended with a .159 batting average and 177 Ks in 415 At Bats if it makes you feel any better, Adam. ;)

Wow, I kind of feel bad for him. Well, maybe not because he makes a ton of money. I really liked him as a Red, and I miss his slugging when he was here.

[chippewastud79]

White Sux "superstar" Adam Dunn ended with a .159 batting average and 177 Ks in 415 At Bats if it makes you feel any better, Adam. ;)

Adam Dunn is a power hitter and has always struck out, he is an all or nothing hitter. 66 hits and 177 K's is certainly not good, but no one expects him to be the leadoff hitter and score 90 runs a season. Dunn also has more walks, and an OBP less than 30 points from Stubbs. Stubbs passed his Reds record for K's in a season. Stubbs has been made out to be the next Rickey around here and is far from it. ;)

[Starscream]

Time to hit the links. There goes the two game win streak. :(

Stubbs finishes the season strong batting .189 with 27 K's in September. I wish Dusty didn't sit him down the stretch to see how many he truly could have gotten. He could have easily been in second place all time. 7 hits in his final 15 games, and that includes two 3 hit games. :td

Now as the Reds move to the offseason, their needs include:
LEADOFF HITTER - Stubbs is NOT the answer, put him at 8 and watch him bat .260
Left fielder - Heisey should get the starts in CF, so maybe hide Stubbs there
Closer - Please don't bring back CoCo, his defense saves more games than he does
Ace - The bottom of their rotation sucks and there is no go to guy
A bat to protect Votto - Preferably on either side, Stubbs is not the answer in the 2 spot either

There are obviously many more issues, besides that they got lucky to win the division last year. :hm
I agree with most of this.
Doesn't sound like the Reds are gonna keep Alonso (at least that's what Fay and others are saying right now). I'd like to see what he could do over a whole season, though. He could (notice I said could) be the guy to protect Votto.

We need pitching, pitching, and more pitching. I think Arroyo will bounce back next season, but I saw nothing good from the rotation or the pen other than Cueto, Leake, and Lecure. CoCo needs to go.

BP needs at least a 3 year extension.

We need a reliable guy at third. I think Rolen is not gonna be the Man next year, like everyone is thinking. Not sure about Francisco. He seems too much like Encarnacion to me.

Stubbs needs to go.

I'm not sold on Cozart, but don't want another has-been coming in like we've done the past few years. Reyes is gonna be out of our price range.

Right side of the field is gonna be great.

D-Mez and Hanigan will be ok (despite D-Mez hitting poorly after he got the callup).

Does Hernandez walk away free, do we offer arbitration and hope for draft picks, or please Lord no don't let him get re-signed.

[Starscream]

Chapman made his first start in the fall league. He only pitched one inning, but it's a start.

[chippewastud79]

Chapman made his first start in the fall league. He only pitched one inning, but it's a start.

He pitched one inning a lot this year. He also walked one batter, as is his traditional outting. The jury is out on him until he gets to his 5th or so lengthy start. Even starting in the preseason won't show if he can be a starter of if he will be destined to be an average setup man. :sh

[elderboy02]

I am anxious to see how he is as a starter.

[chippewastud79]

I am anxious to see how he is as a starter.

The media and homers have already annointed him, he is likely to fail. ;s

[Starscream]

The media and homers have already annointed him, he is likely to fail. ;s

I don't think anyone has annointed him just yet, but if we're gonna get our money's worth out of him, then he's got to be a starter, IMHO.

[chippewastud79]

I don't think anyone has annointed him just yet, but if we're gonna get our money's worth out of him, then he's got to be a starter, IMHO.

In Cincinnati, they certainly have. He is supposed to be the next big thing (see: Stubbs, Volquez, Bailey, Janish et. al.) :rolleyes:

[Starscream]

In Cincinnati, they certainly have. He is supposed to be the next big thing (see: Stubbs, Volquez, Bailey, Janish et. al.) :rolleyes:

Good thing I don't live in Cincy.:D

[chippewastud79]

Phillips and Votto get Gold Gloves. Kind of surprised by Phillips when Walker had more chances, more games and the same number of errors, but when you win one, you have to lose it the next year and he didn't play too bad. :tu

Chapman already misses a start in Fall ball with a sore shoulder. :td

Reds declined the option on CoCo, at least they have made one good move so far this offseason. Although they will likely be watchers instead of buyers trying to upgrade issues. :hm

[elderboy02]

Phillips and Votto get Gold Gloves. Kind of surprised by Phillips when Walker had more chances, more games and the same number of errors, but when you win one, you have to lose it the next year and he didn't play too bad. :tu

Chapman already misses a start in Fall ball with a sore shoulder. :td

Reds declined the option on CoCo, at least they have made one good move so far this offseason. Although they will likely be watchers instead of buyers trying to upgrade issues. :hm

I was glad to see Phillips and Votto win. Phillips definitely deserved it. Honestly, I don't follow Walker, so I don't know if he got robbed or not.

I think they will re-sign CoCo. They just want to pay him less. CoCo said he would like to remain in Cincy and I want him back. He makes things look ugly sometimes, but he get the saves in the end.

[Starscream]

Good to see they didn't pick up the option, but there's still a good chance that CoCo is in Cincy next year.

Jared Burton declined being sent to Louisville and is now a free agent. Good riddance.

[Starscream]

chapman can play fall ball and winter ball to get stretched out, but he's only gonna get a few starts next year (if they do use him as a starter). Despite the total runs we had last year, which is very misleading, I'm more worried about the offense than I am about pitching. Yet we aren't gonna do crap next year without bringing in at least one legit starter, some bullpen help, and a cheap closer who can get the job done. Still, I'm more worried about a legitimate four hole hitter who can get the job done. Let's trade Stubbs to get at least one of these.

[chippewastud79]

chapman can play fall ball and winter ball to get stretched out, but he's only gonna get a few starts next year (if they do use him as a starter). Despite the total runs we had last year, which is very misleading, I'm more worried about the offense than I am about pitching. Yet we aren't gonna do crap next year without bringing in at least one legit starter, some bullpen help, and a cheap closer who can get the job done. Still, I'm more worried about a legitimate four hole hitter who can get the job done. Let's trade Stubbs to get at least one of these.

I would trade Stubbs for some nice maple bats and a bucket of sunflower seeds. He is worthless at the plate and overrated in the outfield. :rolleyes:

[chippewastud79]

Looks like there is a player on the market for CF and he and Arnoldis already know each other. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_yoenis_cespedes_cuban_defected_110611

Maybe Walt will make a decent move for once and try and sign this kid. :tu

[elderboy02]

Very nice! I would like Jocketty to do it :tu

[Starscream]

Sounds like another project. We have enough projects going on right now. Not sure if I would risk taking another.

[chippewastud79]

Sounds like another project. We have enough projects going on right now. Not sure if I would risk taking another.

Well with as long as they give their projects, he can be around for 4 years and see if he pans out. :tu

[Starscream]

Well with as long as they give their projects, he can be around for 4 years and see if he pans out. :tu

I'd take him over Stubbs right now.:)

[chippewastud79]

I'd take him over Stubbs right now.:)

I think anyone would :tu

[elderboy02]

I think anyone would :tu

Even me! :O

[Starscream]

Even me! :O

:D

[Starscream]

Reds interested in a deal for Andrew Bailey of the A's. I'm down with that, as long as we don't get rid of Alonso.

The A's need outfielders. We can give them Stubbs, Heisey, and Sappelt.

[elderboy02]

I would like to see Bailey. We can then have the Bailey brothers. Homer and Andrew! :r

[chippewastud79]

I would like to see Bailey. We can then have the Bailey brothers. Homer and Andrew! :r

Include Homer in the trade. :tu

[Starscream]

Include Homer in the trade. :tu

I thought about that for a minute, but until we actually pick up an established starter, they better hold on to what they've got. A mediocre starter is better than no starter.

[Starscream]

If anyone was listening to the Hot Stove tonight with Thom, I was the final caller. I feel privileged to talk to a big time commentator. I was the one who asked about trading away Stubbs, Heisey, and Sappelt for Andrew Bailey.

[Starscream]

http://www.700wlw.com/player/?station=WLW-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=reds_hot_stove_league.xml&mid=21611977
If you skip ahead to about the 20 minute mark, you can hear my dumbass talk to Thom Brennaman. I still say give away three scrub outfielders in order to get a closer who has had a bit of arm trouble in the past.

[elderboy02]

http://www.700wlw.com/player/?station=WLW-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=reds_hot_stove_league.xml&mid=21611977
If you skip ahead to about the 20 minute mark, you can hear my dumbass talk to Thom Brennaman. I still say give away three scrub outfielders in order to get a closer who has had a bit of arm trouble in the past.

Congrats Andy! :tu

[chippewastud79]

http://www.700wlw.com/player/?station=WLW-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=reds_hot_stove_league.xml&mid=21611977
If you skip ahead to about the 20 minute mark, you can hear my dumbass talk to Thom Brennaman. I still say give away three scrub outfielders in order to get a closer who has had a bit of arm trouble in the past.

Nice question Andy, and I like how you include Stubbs in the trade :tu

[elderboy02]

... I like how you include Stubbs in the trade :tu

:r I knew you would

[Starscream]

:D

[chippewastud79]

:r I knew you would

I think any right-minded fan would. ;)

[Starscream]

I think any right-minded fan would. ;)

Thom said I was giving away to much for the guy, but they're all scrubs to me.

[elderboy02]

I think any right-minded fan would. ;)

I would give him up, but we would need to get something decent. He sure does strike out a ton, but his OBP isn't that horrible.

[chippewastud79]

Thom said I was giving away to much for the guy, but they're all scrubs to me.

3 players might be much for a pitcher coming off an injury, but one of them and a Single/Double A pitching prospect. I would like to see Heisey as a full-time player before he is a scrub. Stubbs is an over-hyped scrub. :tu

[chippewastud79]

I would give him up, but we would need to get something decent. He sure does strike out a ton, but his OBP isn't that horrible.

Take away his 50 walks he gets by not moving the bat and his OBP drops like a rock. He strikes out a ton, isn't as good in the field as they claim him to be and doesn't provide any boost in the leadoff that most of the league gets. :td

[Starscream]

3 players might be much for a pitcher coming off an injury, but one of them and a Single/Double A pitching prospect. I would like to see Heisey as a full-time player before he is a scrub. Stubbs is an over-hyped scrub. :tu

He's another Stubbs without the speed if you ask me. He could potentially hit 40 hrs in GABP, but he was on pace last year to strikeout as much as Stubbs (if he were allowed to play everyday).
It's a gamble for sure for a guy who's had arm trouble in the past, but it wouldn't hurt us in the outfield much. We'd still have Bruce in right, Alonso in left, and Rodriquez would get the call up to put in center.

[Starscream]

According to BPs twitter account, he was in my town over the Thanksgiving holiday. What the heck he was doing in Laurinburg is beyond me.

[elderboy02]

According to BPs twitter account, he was in my town over the Thanksgiving holiday. What the heck he was doing in Laurinburg is beyond me.

Maybe he heard you on the radio and wanted to meet you? :D

[elderboy02]

My aunt won 2 tickets to Redsfest this weekend. Her and I will be going to it. Apparently we got some sort of VIP tickets and we get a private room with Jay Bruce so we don't have to wait in line to get his autograph. I went to Dick's and bought an official MLB ball in a case to get signed.

You guys have anything you want me to ask any of the Reds?

[chippewastud79]

My aunt won 2 tickets to Redsfest this weekend. Her and I will be going to it. Apparently we got some sort of VIP tickets and we get a private room with Jay Bruce so we don't have to wait in line to get his autograph. I went to Dick's and bought an official MLB ball in a case to get signed.

You guys have anything you want me to ask any of the Reds?

How does Drew Stubbs manage to be so terrible in the lead off spot? :sh

[elderboy02]

How does Drew Stubbs manage to be so terrible in the lead off spot? :sh

Any other negative or positive things you want me to ask?

[hotreds]

Any other negative or positive things you want me to ask?

Positive????

[elderboy02]

Should I ask Jay Bruce if he feels robbed that he didn't get a gold glove?

[Starscream]

Enjoy it, Dan!:tu
How about "who's his favorite teammate?" or "who was his favorite player when he was growing up?".



In other news, Ramon Hernandez signed a deal with the Rockies.:tu

[chippewastud79]

Should I ask Jay Bruce if he feels robbed that he didn't get a gold glove?

No. :2


I would ask questions more geared toward life outside of baseball rather than baseball related. Answering the same questions everyone asks him about the team and baseball likely gets repetitive. Ask him if he wants to come to a herf in January :tu

[elderboy02]

Enjoy it, Dan!:tu
How about "who's his favorite teammate?" or "who was his favorite player when he was growing up?".

In other news, Ramon Hernandez signed a deal with the Rockies.:tu

Thanks Andy! I am glad to see Hernandez go. Time for the young guys to play.

[elderboy02]

No. :2


I would ask questions more geared toward life outside of baseball rather than baseball related. Answering the same questions everyone asks him about the team and baseball likely gets repetitive. Ask him if he wants to come to a herf in January :tu

Thanks Adam. You bring up a good point. I would hate getting asked about the same stuff all the time.

[chippewastud79]

Thanks Adam. You bring up a good point. I would hate getting asked about the same stuff all the time.

He would likely humor anyone and say the company lines about the Reds, but it would be more interesting to talk about hobbies or cigars or guns. Heck, he is from Texas right? He probably likes guns and cigars. :tu

[never_enough]

Go Reds! I didn't get to watch more than a few games this year. :td Being in the northeast sucks for being a bengals/reds fan.

[hotreds]

Yeah- talk to him about seegars and tell him we herf at The Beer Sellar every month and to check out CA!

[elderboy02]

Go Reds! I didn't get to watch more than a few games this year. :td Being in the northeast sucks for being a bengals/reds fan.

Hello fellow Reds fan! :tu

[Starscream]

That would be awesome if Bruce was a cigar smoker (but I kinda doubt it though).

Welcome aboard, Robert!:salute:

[elderboy02]

Redsfest was packed! It was a good time though.

Here is a picture of my aunt and I with Jay Bruce. He was super friendly, shook my hand, and didn't come off as a jerk

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z282/elderboy02/Redsfest%202011/IMG_1407.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z282/elderboy02/Redsfest%202011/IMG_1408.jpg


George Foster:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z282/elderboy02/Redsfest%202011/IMG_1416.jpg


Dusty Baker:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z282/elderboy02/Redsfest%202011/IMG_1418.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z282/elderboy02/Redsfest%202011/IMG_1419.jpg

[elderboy02]

I took this photo just for you Adam. I know Drew Stubbs your boy:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z282/elderboy02/Redsfest%202011/IMG_1399.jpg

[Starscream]

Can't see the pics at work. I'll have to check it out when I get home. Glad you enjoyed it, Dan.:tu

[Starscream]

I took this photo just for you Adam. I know Drew Stubbs your boy:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z282/elderboy02/Redsfest%202011/IMG_1399.jpg

Stubbs and EV! The two greatest Reds to have ever played the game!:r

[chippewastud79]

Stubbs and EV! The two greatest Reds to have ever played the game!:r

Future Hall of Famers right there. :tu

[elderboy02]

Heard on the radio that we may trade Volquez to the Rockies for Hueston.

I like it :tu

[never_enough]

Damn, Redsfest looks fun!

[Starscream]

Heard on the radio that we may trade Volquez to the Rockies for Hueston.

I like it :tu

I'm hearing that that deal fell through. Street is too expensive. I'd rather go with someone we've already got than to pay out $8 million for him.

[Starscream]

Question: How do you guys feel about the ownership of the Reds? Do you truly believe that Bob wants to bring winning baseball back to Cincinnati, or was that all a sham just to sell tickets? We had 2010, but last offseason and this offseason make me feel like we are getting intentionally shafted.

Bob is definitely not Mike Brown by any means, but I'm starting to wonder about him.

[chippewastud79]

Question: How do you guys feel about the ownership of the Reds? Do you truly believe that Bob wants to bring winning baseball back to Cincinnati, or was that all a sham just to sell tickets? We had 2010, but last offseason and this offseason make me feel like we are getting intentionally shafted.

Bob is definitely not Mike Brown by any means, but I'm starting to wonder about him.

It makes me wonder if they do aspire to compete in this division. Not making a move while the teams around them seem to make moves is pretty bad. The Reds were coming off their luckiest season in years and didn't do anything to improve the team. Now they are back to where they belonged the year before and don't seem to want to get back to the top. Luckily for them, the Cards and Brew Crew might be getting weaker if they both lose their first basemen. :hm


This could be the last year they can compete in this division, once Votto and Phillips find greener pastures. :2

[Starscream]

It makes me wonder if they do aspire to compete in this division. Not making a move while the teams around them seem to make moves is pretty bad. The Reds were coming off their luckiest season in years and didn't do anything to improve the team. Now they are back to where they belonged the year before and don't seem to want to get back to the top. Luckily for them, the Cards and Brew Crew might be getting weaker if they both lose their first basemen. :hm


This could be the last year they can compete in this division, once Votto and Phillips find greener pastures. :2

Exactly. We did nothing while the rest of the division made big trades at the deadline this past year. Walt seemed to just hope that those trades didn't pan out. Now in the offseason, all that's coming from Walt is that we will be good IF Pujols and Fielder move on. It seems as if this is the "sit on our hands" management and ownership lately. And if they don't make a big trade or some significant acquisition this year, guess who they will lay the blame on. Us because you and I (we the fans) didn't put enough @sses in seats this past season.

As for BP and Votto, I'm confident that we'll sign BP to a four year deal this offseason, but I'm afraid Votto will be gone after next year, and we'll have traded away his replacement for a bottom of the rotation pitcher.

[elderboy02]

I think they are trying to win. I think they will make a lot of moves this off season since they didnt get very far last year. I think the owners thought they would be lucky again like they were the season before

[chippewastud79]

I think they are trying to win. I think they will make a lot of moves this off season since they didnt get very far last year. I think the owners thought they would be lucky again like they were the season before

The problem is, the market for top-tier pitchers is too high (and they aren't all that great), relievers are sparse and the true prize free agents are at a position they don't need. They could have used Reyes, but he was at a steep price. :sh

Maybe now that Ramirez is upset about trying to move to 3B he would be open to come :hm

There were some pretty good players out there last year and teams in the Reds division improved while they stayed stagnant. And there certainly hasn't been much news about them making any 'blockbuster' moves this offseason. :td

The Reds can't put butts in seat if they don't win, the Marlins are making moves to try and fill their seats, even if they may not win with them. The Reds have the feeling of the Bengals in that they don't seem to put a ton of effort into winning, just the bottom line. :2

[chippewastud79]

As for BP and Votto, I'm confident that we'll sign BP to a four year deal this offseason, but I'm afraid Votto will be gone after next year, and we'll have traded away his replacement for a bottom of the rotation pitcher.

If Votto leaves, they have no true #3 hitter on their roster and doesn't appear to have anyone waiting. Bruce is locked up, but he serves better as a 4-6 hitter and without someone infront/behind him he may struggle even more. :rolleyes:

Phillips would be nice to keep, but I think he really wants to play for a contender. Nothing worse than being an All-Star/Gold Glove winner on a bad team. :td

[hotreds]

Looks like Albert will only bother them in the World Serious now.

[chippewastud79]

Looks like Albert will only bother them in the World Serious now.

10 years - $250 million and a true no-trade clause. It would have been nice to see the Cardinals step up to the plate and make him a serious offer before the season, they balked, he walked. Works out well for Albert, given that he is signed thru age 41 and he can switch to the DH if he gets a little to creaky for 1B in the future. He can certainly be a contender for the AL MVP immediately, and is playing for an immediate contender. :2

Well, so far it is working out for the Reds, other teams in the division are getting weaker. Votto is a lock for the All-Star Game starter now that he is gone, and assuming Fielder goes to the AL. :tu

As an aside to this, the Cardinals now have a need at firstbase and Votto is an upcoming free agent. The Cardinals will certainly spend more money than the Reds to try to get him if they are players in the Votto-Derby if he will listen. :hm

[Starscream]

Good news for Reds fans, but bad news for baseball in general. Pujols looks like a d0uche b/c of this. Whatever happened to loyalty to the fans and organization that made him? Pujols was set for life, but he traded it all for a couple more million dollars. I hope his numbers go in the tank, starting with this upcoming year.

[elderboy02]

Good news for Reds fans, but bad news for baseball in general. Pujols looks like a d0uche b/c of this. Whatever happened to loyalty to the fans and organization that made him? Pujols was set for life, but he traded it all for a couple more million dollars. I hope his numbers go in the tank, starting with this upcoming year.

+1. I mean what the hell is a few million dollars when you are getting 200+ million already.

I am glad he is out of the division though :banger

[criracer]

If It's only a few million more dollars then St. Louis should have came up with the money. I don't blame Pujols for taking the most money he can get.

But I agree it will be great to have him out of our division.

[chippewastud79]

Good news for Reds fans, but bad news for baseball in general. Pujols looks like a d0uche b/c of this. Whatever happened to loyalty to the fans and organization that made him? Pujols was set for life, but he traded it all for a couple more million dollars. I hope his numbers go in the tank, starting with this upcoming year.

Will this be the same attitude if Votto peaces out after he is a FA? :hm

It looks like it might be about $50 million more money and the Angels are making some serious moves to be contenders immediately. :2

I really thought he was pretty willing to stay on the Cardinals, but they couldn't come up with the scratch and maybe there was something behind closed doors we missed. If they really wanted Pujols, they had many oppotunities in the last 2 years to take care of him, maybe he felt a bit unwanted there. :sh

[chippewastud79]

The move also makes Fielder a huge target for the Cardinals :hm

[Starscream]

Will this be the same attitude if Votto peaces out after he is a FA? :hm

It's a bit different b/c Votto doesn't go around constantly saying that he wants to remain a Red. Plus, Votto hasn't been around like Pujols has in St. Louis and established his own dynasty. Pujols has mentioned MANY times that he wanted to be a Cardinal for life. Votto has pretty much been politically correct and vague everytime he is asked about the future. He's not leading the fans on like Pujols did.

[chippewastud79]

It's a bit different b/c Votto doesn't go around constantly saying that he wants to remain a Red. Plus, Votto hasn't been around like Pujols has in St. Louis and established his own dynasty. Pujols has mentioned MANY times that he wanted to be a Cardinal for life. Votto has pretty much been politically correct and vague everytime he is asked about the future. He's not leading the fans on like Pujols did.

Again, the Cardinals had the opportunity to step up to the plate, and they balked. They were hoping he would have a down season and bring his price down, he didn't and they wouldn't up their price. :bh

Two years ago he began asking for the huge long-term deal and they couldn't get it done. He wanted to sign before camp and the Cardinals left the same offer on the table for over a year without changing it. Its almost as if they were expecting him to walk without a fight, and they certainly didn't appear to put one up. :sh

~$198 million and ~$250-260 is a big difference, and the Cardinals couldn't match it. There is expected to be a loyalty from Pujols to them, but it apparently wasn't recipricated. :td

[Starscream]

Again, the Cardinals had the opportunity to step up to the plate, and they balked. They were hoping he would have a down season and bring his price down, he didn't and they wouldn't up their price. :bh

Two years ago he began asking for the huge long-term deal and they couldn't get it done. He wanted to sign before camp and the Cardinals left the same offer on the table for over a year without changing it. Its almost as if they were expecting him to walk without a fight, and they certainly didn't appear to put one up. :sh

~$198 million and ~$250-260 is a big difference, and the Cardinals couldn't match it. There is expected to be a loyalty from Pujols to them, but it apparently wasn't recipricated. :td

What he was asking for, and what he just got are to me unreasonable and outrageous for any team to pay out w/ the exception of NY, Boston, and maybe Philly. The Angels are going to really feel the burden of this deal about five years down the road, just like the Reds did with Griffey in his last few years. STL put their maximum dollar that they would be willing to pay, which was going to hurt them down the road if he accepted it just b/c they wanted to keep the fans happy. If the going rate was a billion dollars for Pujols and the Cardinals couldn't match that, would that still make them not loyal to him? $200 million for 9 or 10 years is beyond reasonable and is more than fair to him. He kept telling the fans that he wanted to remain in STL, but this was obviously not the case. If you sign a contract for ten years, then you sign for less money per year.

I've always supported and stood behind the MLB, even during the strike in '94, but the money deal is seriously starting to turn me off to the sport.

[Starscream]

The move also makes Fielder a huge target for the Cardinals :hm

And it probably just drove up Fielder's asking price.

[Starscream]

I'm starting to think Walt Jocketty is a liar. He said they had big plans for the offseason, but so far they haven't even managed to get a top of the rotation pitcher.
Dmitri Young and a no name local pitcher...:td

[chippewastud79]

I'm starting to think Walt Jocketty is a liar. He said they had big plans for the offseason, but so far they haven't even managed to get a top of the rotation pitcher.
Dmitri Young and a no name local pitcher...:td

Isn't Dmitri Young like 37 and just like Drew Stubbs? All or nothing?:rolleyes:

[Starscream]

Isn't Dmitri Young like 37 and just like Drew Stubbs? All or nothing?:rolleyes:

He's supposedly lost 70 lbs, but that's not gonna revive his career at 37.

[elderboy02]

He's supposedly lost 70 lbs, but that's not gonna revive his career at 37.

I loved Dimitri Young when he was with the Reds a zillion years ago. Now, not so much.

[Starscream]

Looks like Shields is now out of our price range. Not necessarily bad news, b/c I didn't think he'd be a good fit at GABP due to the fact that he gives up a lot of hits and HRs. But the bad news is it looks like this sets the tone that Jocketty won't get anything significant done this offseason.

[chippewastud79]

Mat Latos comes in on the first big deal for the Reds. Looks like Jockety is going to have to dig VERY deep to keep Votto, like staying within 20 million of the next closest offer with Alonso on the way out. Also, how does that Volquez for Hamilton trade look now? Unreal dumb. :bh

I realize he was a league leader in ERA and K's/9 innings but I am not a big fan of giving up 4 players for one, including Alonso. Now if Stubbs was in the package, maybe I would be more excited about it. :hm


http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7362616/san-diego-padres-trade-mat-latos-cincinnati-reds-edinson-volquez-yonder-alonso-two-prospects

[hotreds]

Latos IS a #1 pitcher, and we need a number one pitcher. Lots to give up in fact, and Volquez could turn it around, but I like the trade.

[Starscream]

I'm glad we got a top of the rotation guy, but I think the price was a little steep. Giving up Alonso and Grandal was expected. Throwing in Volquez too was a bit much, although I'm glad to be rid of him. Getting rid of Boxberger was over the top too.

[hotreds]

Bowden certainly thinks the Reds got jobbed! I guess time will tell.

[elderboy02]

I like the trade. Everyone was complaining that they weren't making any moves, now we are complaining that they gave away too much. I don't get it.

We had no spot for Yonder and he sucked at defense. Volquez sucks now (headcase), and Grandal we didn't have a spot for with Hanningan/Mesorraco.

[chippewastud79]

I like the trade. Everyone was complaining that they weren't making any moves, now we are complaining that they gave away too much. I don't get it.

We had no spot for Yonder and he sucked at defense. Volquez sucks now (headcase), and Grandal we didn't have a spot for with Hanningan/Mesorraco.

What happens in 2 years when they lose Votto to the highest bidder? Then they have a spot for him. Hell, the Reds make spots for guys like Stubbs and force them into the lineup. 4 first round draft picks for a guy who actually regressed last season and has been known to have outbursts around the clubhouse :hm

He is a #1 pitcher, but he has won 14 games once, and was 9-14 last season while his stats actually regressed. The Padres get a starter, an opening day 1B, a catcher who is apparently close to ready and a pitcher who projects as a very nice bullpen pitcher. :sh

[smitdavi]

IMO the REDS got hosed. Gave up way to much. They've def backed themselves into a corner with Votto now.

[elderboy02]

What happens in 2 years when they lose Votto to the highest bidder? Then they have a spot for him. Hell, the Reds make spots for guys like Stubbs and force them into the lineup. 4 first round draft picks for a guy who actually regressed last season and has been known to have outbursts around the clubhouse :hm

He is a #1 pitcher, but he has won 14 games once, and was 9-14 last season while his stats actually regressed. The Padres get a starter, an opening day 1B, a catcher who is apparently close to ready and a pitcher who projects as a very nice bullpen pitcher. :sh

Prospects are just that... Prospects. Who knows if they will ever be any good. And remember Adam, you said the Reds suck at developing prospects.

[chippewastud79]

Prospects are just that... Prospects. Who knows if they will ever be any good. And remember Adam, you said the Reds suck at developing prospects.

Yeah, the Reds suck at developing talent because they rush people to the big show (See: Stubbs, Janish, Bruce, Bailey). With Yonder it looked like he was going to get the time to develop until Joey is a Yankee. Heck, he batted higher than most of the roster in 47 games last year. :hm

They obviously weren't going to carry 3 catchers again this season, so they could have developed him until Hannigan left. Volquez may benefit from a change of scenery, but obviously the Reds were just looking to unload a liability and hopefully erase the huge mistake of a trade to get rid of Hamilton, because they wanted to rush Stubbs. :bh

[Starscream]

Now we're stuck with Heisey in LF b/c we just traded away all of our bargaining power.

[chippewastud79]

Now we're stuck with Heisey in LF b/c we just traded away all of our bargaining power.

Not true, they still have Drew Stubbs, oh wait, no one else wants him. :rolleyes:

[Starscream]

Not true, they still have Drew Stubbs, oh wait, no one else wants him. :rolleyes:

Exactly.;)

[elderboy02]

What are your thoughts on the trade yesterday? I am not sure about it. Travis Wood was good, but had some problems as he went to the minors a couple times last year. I don't know much about the guy we got.

[Starscream]

What are your thoughts on the trade yesterday? I am not sure about it. Travis Wood was good, but had some problems as he went to the minors a couple times last year. I don't know much about the guy we got.
The jury's still out waiting to see which two minor leaguers are included in this deal, but for the most part I like it. Marshall's one of the best relievers in the game right now. He'll only be here for one year, but one year of a sure thing is better than four years of "what if" with Wood.

[criracer]

Marshall's one of the best relievers in the game right now.

+1

[Starscream]

+1

Sorry for your loss. But it does look like Epstein is in rebuilding mode. Could be a good thing in a year or two.

[Starscream]

Inlcuded in the Wood/Marshall trade are Sappelt and Torreyes. No big loss there, but I thought that Sappelt had enough value to be a part of one more trade before ST.

[Starscream]

Since we got rid of most of the good ones, maybe we won't have to hear about prospects all year in Cincy for once.

[elderboy02]

Reds = World Series! :banger :banger :banger :tu :banger

See! --> http://www.fox19.com/story/16416711/si-writer-predicts-reds-will-win-world-series

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Reds = World Series! :banger :banger :banger
See! --> http://www.fox19.com/story/16416711/si-writer-predicts-reds-will-win-world-series


They have a good team, and I like them for the NL Central, but WS predictions are kinda worthless at this point in time:2

[chippewastud79]

They have a good team, and I like them for the NL Central, but WS predictions are kinda worthless at this point in time:2

Dan makes the prediction every season, maybe sometime before he dies he will be right. Its just that this season SI threw in their prediction for him to piggy back. :sh

Sheehan also notes that the 5 best teams in baseball are in the AL and that the Reds might win a VERY WEAK NL Central. :rolleyes:

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Dan makes the prediction every season, maybe sometime before he dies he will be right. Its just that this season SI threw in their prediction for him to piggy back. :sh

Sheehan also notes that the 5 best teams in baseball are in the AL and that the Reds might win a VERY WEAK NL Central. :rolleyes:

A very weak central. But as always, you can't count the Cards out either.. They seem to do crazy things with weak teams on paper. It will either be the Reds or Cards winning the Central, with my money going towards the Reds.:2

[Starscream]

I lol'ed when I heard that an SI contributor picked the Reds to win the WS this year. What a friggin' joke!

[elderboy02]

I lol'ed when I heard that an SI contributor picked the Reds to win the WS this year. What a friggin' joke!

Not a joke. This is our year! :tu:tu:tu

[Starscream]

Not a joke. This is our year! :tu:tu:tu

We've made improvements, but not that much.

[chippewastud79]

We've made improvements, but not that much.

;s :tpd: If, IF:

Everyone stays healthy
Stubbs doesn't strike out 200+ times
Bruce can have more than 2 good months
They get some decent starting pitching
Play as weak of a schedule as they have the last two seasons
Can keep the bullpen from giving up leads
Find a LF

Then they can maybe win the division, but they are far from better than at least a few teams in the NL. Lest you forget that the Phillies got stronger and the Reds are stuck in neutral. :sh

[chippewastud79]

Since you and SI are predicting WS, how about a 5'er bet Dan?

5'er that the Reds don't win the World Series. You won't bet it, just like you balked on the playoff bet last season and the Stubbs bets. :rolleyes:

[elderboy02]

Since you and SI are predicting WS, how about a 5'er bet Dan?

5'er that the Reds don't win the World Series. You won't bet it, just like you balked on the playoff bet last season and the Stubbs bets. :rolleyes:

Again, I am not betting you. You are a sore loser and if I would win, all I would hear from you is "They played a weak schedule" "You are a homer" Blah, blah, blah.... :td

[chippewastud79]

Again, I am not betting you. You are a sore loser and if I would win, all I would hear from you is "They played a weak schedule" "You are a homer" Blah, blah, blah....

You will never bet your predictions. They will not win the World Series, but you and SI claim they will. :r:r:r:r

[elderboy02]

The Reds signed Ryan Madson. Holy crap! What a great move.

The Reds have signed 2 guys for the back end of the bullpen that only gave up 3 homers in 140 innings.

:banger :tu :banger

[icehog3]

The Reds have signed 2 guys for the back end of the bullpen that only gave up 3 homers in 140 innings.

:banger :tu :banger

Maybe because they weren't pitching for the Reds, Dan? ;) :r

[elderboy02]

Maybe because they weren't pitching for the Reds, Dan? ;) :r

Oh, I am sure Mr. Cheery Adam will be along shortly to tell us how bad the Reds screwed up this time :bh

[chippewastud79]

Maybe because they weren't pitching for the Reds, Dan? ;) :r

They had to add someone to the bullpen, they are moving the walk machine to the starting rotation. Pitching in GABP will make it tough on any pitcher as balls seem to fly out of there. The Reds bullpen always seems to have a way to giving up runs, even Cordero liked to put the winning run on base before his defense saved him about 25 times last year. :rolleyes:

[Starscream]

They had to add someone to the bullpen, they are moving the walk machine to the starting rotation. Pitching in GABP will make it tough on any pitcher as balls seem to fly out of there. The Reds bullpen always seems to have a way to giving up runs, even Cordero liked to put the winning run on base before his defense saved him about 25 times last year. :rolleyes:

I know they threw that out there that they were gonna move Chapman to the rotation, but I'm not sure they will. We still have Bailey to be the number 5 guy (which isn't saying much), but he's better prepared to give us more innings than Chappy.

[chippewastud79]

I know they threw that out there that they were gonna move Chapman to the rotation, but I'm not sure they will. We still have Bailey to be the number 5 guy (which isn't saying much), but he's better prepared to give us more innings than Chappy.

That looks to be Jockety's move, they want him in the rotation. They paid him like a starter or a closer, not a setup man. He isn't a very good setup man, and he already showed he can't pitch everyday like a closer. The problem is probably that his pitch count is probably going to have to stay in the 70-80 range for him to be effective at all. Now the whole MLB knows he throws fast, but doesn't throw strikes. His advantage will be that the two best sluggers in the division both left, because Albert crushed his pitches last year. :rolleyes:

[Starscream]

Thoughts on Ludwick? I'm fine with the signing, but he's not gonna add a lot to the team. He's the best of the available free agent outfielders.

[elderboy02]

Thoughts on Ludwick? I'm fine with the signing, but he's not gonna add a lot to the team. He's the best of the available free agent outfielders.

I am fine with it, but like you said, I don't think he will add much. He is older, but will be decent.

[chippewastud79]

Thoughts on Ludwick? I'm fine with the signing, but he's not gonna add a lot to the team. He's the best of the available free agent outfielders.

Isn't anyone who can take AB's away from Stubbs an upgrade? :hm

[hotreds]

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120117/SPT04/301170121/Reds-lineup-geared-for-winning?source=nletter-nletter-sports

[elderboy02]

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120117/SPT04/301170121/Reds-lineup-geared-for-winning?source=nletter-nletter-sports

:tu

[Starscream]

Isn't anyone who can take AB's away from Stubbs an upgrade? :hm

It will be minimal ABs taken away. The majority of bench time will now go to Heisey.

[chippewastud79]

It will be minimal ABs taken away. The majority of bench time will now go to Heisey.

I know. I was just trying to be positive that maybe someone other than Stubbs would be in CF on opening day. ;s

[Starscream]

Seems now like Walt's just making moves just to make moves. We trade a sub-par reliever for a sub-par utility infielder. I know they keep saying they'd like some depth at short, but it looks like Valdez is a clone of Cairo except he can't hit for average.

[elderboy02]

If you have Twitter, follow @DallasLatos She is hillarious.

Oh yeah, she is hot too! :dr :tu

http://www.athleteswives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Mat-Latos-wife-e1324420239101.jpg

[hotreds]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/02/02/fso-announces-preseason-tv-schedule/

[chippewastud79]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/02/01/trib-columnist-votto-to-blue-jays-an-inevitable-acquisition/?odyssey=obinsite

Votto to the Jays, inevitable? :hm

[elderboy02]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/02/01/trib-columnist-votto-to-blue-jays-an-inevitable-acquisition/?odyssey=obinsite

Votto to the Jays, inevitable? :hm

I would hate to see that.

[Starscream]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/02/01/trib-columnist-votto-to-blue-jays-an-inevitable-acquisition/?odyssey=obinsite

Votto to the Jays, inevitable? :hm

Probably, but not this year. Unless there's some killer benefit for the Reds, it probably won't happen until Votto's contract is up in Cincy or the trade deadline on his final year.

[chippewastud79]

Probably, but not this year. Unless there's some killer benefit for the Reds, it probably won't happen until Votto's contract is up in Cincy or the trade deadline on his final year.

They are going to have the cap space to outbid Cincinnati by millions, so why not get some players in return? :confused:

[Starscream]

Once again I was the last caller on McAllister's Hot Stove Show. I think it might have been actually Mark Amazon. I discussed Oswalt's WAR vs. Bailey's WAR and the price for each. Oswalt's WAR has gone down each year, while Bailey's WAR has improved each year (although by not much), but if I'm gonna spend 10-16 million, I want a big name player, not another broken down maybe pitcher. We've already got enough maybe's and has-beens. I'm mad enough at keeping Rolen at third, a has been as back-up/maybe starting SS out of Valdez, and Arroyo. Why add Oswalt?

BTW, I was supposedly ED from NC. The last caller, if you want to go back and listen. I waited so long, he finally answered my call when I was taking a p!$$ and was caught off guard. :r:r