How are you doing at the tables (Poker Thread)?

[JohnnyFlake]

My post #35 above has troubled me for several hours now. Something about it does not make any sense to me, so I called them again, and I was again explained the same exact ruling on how their rule about the hole cards apply. So, what I explained above #35 is correct, based on their rules.

However, it makes no sense to me, and here is why. Using the example that I was given, 3 tens, a nine and a jack are on the table. Your holding the 4th ten and another card. According to their rules, the other card must be a jack, queen, king or ace for your hand to count. Their rule, as defined by them, states that your kicker must be equal to or higher than any other cards on the table, beside the 3 tens. In other words, your kicker must tie or beat the other kickers on the table for your hand to be considered a winning hand. That makes no sense, as you have 4 tens. No one else has four tens, therefore the kicker is irrelevant. It should make no difference what your kicker is, even a duce should be good. Kickers, by all poker rules, only come into play to break two or more hands that tie, and sometimes kickers will also tie and the pot is split. With any four of a kind hand, there can be no ties. Who ever has four of a kind, can never be tied with an equal hand. As a result the kicker is irrelevant!

[poker]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

My post #35 above has troubled me for several hours now. Something about it does not make any sense to me, so I called them again, and I was again explained the same exact ruling on how their rule about the hole cards apply. So, what I explained above #35 is correct, based on their rules.

However, it makes no sense to me, and here is why. Using the example that I was given, 3 tens, a nine and a jack are on the table. Your holding the 4th ten and another card. According to their rules, the other card must be a jack, queen, king or ace for your hand to count. Their rule, as defined by them, states that your kicker must be equal to or higher than any other cards on the table, beside the 3 tens. In other words, your kicker must tie or beat the other kickers on the table for your hand to be considered a winning hand. That makes no sense, as you have 4 tens. No one else has four tens, therefore the kicker is irrelevant. It should make no difference what your kicker is, even a duce should be good. Kickers, by all poker rules, only come into play to break two or more hands that tie, and sometimes kickers will also tie and the pot is split. With any four of a kind hand, there can be no ties. Who ever has four of a kind, can never be tied with an equal hand. As a result the kicker is irrelevant!

Well all I can tell you is what I know. A poker hand in Hold Em consists of a 5 card hand, not 4. So the kicker does apply. If given the example you posted

10-10-9-J-10

And you have A-10, the Ace kicker counts as the 5th card to complete your hand.
If for example you instead had 8-10 in the hole, you have quads but the "J" on the board out ranks your 8, so therefore you do in fact have quads but you are not using both your hole cards, only the 10.

The key being that both players must have both hole cards contribute to make up a 5 card hand to qualify for bad beat JP.

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by poker

Well all I can tell you is what I know. A poker hand in Hold Em consists of a 5 card hand, not 4. So the kicker does apply. If given the example you posted

10-10-9-J-10

And you have A-10, the Ace kicker counts as the 5th card to complete your hand.
If for example you instead had 8-10 in the hole, you have quads but the "J" on the board out ranks your 8, so therefore you do in fact have quads but you are not using both your hole cards, only the 10.

The key being that both players must have both hole cards contribute to make up a 5 card hand to qualify for bad beat JP.

Poker,

You have missed my point completely! Yes, the kicker in your hand must play, making a five card hand, however, the value/rank of the kicker in your hand is irrelevant, as your four tens is the winning hand, no matter what the value of the kicker is. There is no other hand that can tie the four tens, so the value of the kicker, in your hand, should be irrelevant.

[poker]

I see what you are trying to say, but I dont think I can explain the kicker rule in place at these 2 casinos any easier for it to make more sense.

[Ollie]

Because everyone loves a bad beat story ...

Seat 2: Villain (3995 in chips)
Seat 7: SB (4260 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO (5245 in chips)
SB: posts small blind 100
HERO: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Js Jc]
Villain: calls 200
SB: calls 100
HERO: raises 600 to 800
Villain: raises 600 to 1400
SB: folds
HERO: calls 600
*** FLOP *** [6c Jh 5c]
HERO: checks
Villain: bets 1000
HERO: raises 2845 to 3845 and is all-in
Villain: calls 1595 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (1250) returned to Quint45
*** TURN *** [6c Jh 5c] [4s]
*** RIVER *** [6c Jh 5c 4s] [Kd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HERO: shows [Js Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
Villain: shows [Kh Kc] (three of a kind, Kings)
Villain collected 8190 from pot

[white_s2k]

Originally Posted by Ollie

Because everyone loves a bad beat story ...

Seat 2: Villain (3995 in chips)
Seat 7: SB (4260 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO (5245 in chips)
SB: posts small blind 100
HERO: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Js Jc]
Villain: calls 200
SB: calls 100
HERO: raises 600 to 800
Villain: raises 600 to 1400
SB: folds
HERO: calls 600
*** FLOP *** [6c Jh 5c]
HERO: checks
Villain: bets 1000
HERO: raises 2845 to 3845 and is all-in
Villain: calls 1595 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (1250) returned to Quint45
*** TURN *** [6c Jh 5c] [4s]
*** RIVER *** [6c Jh 5c 4s] [Kd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HERO: shows [Js Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
Villain: shows [Kh Kc] (three of a kind, Kings)
Villain collected 8190 from pot

Wowwww... that's bad man. I would have done the same thing though.