Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical storage?

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by Legend

Where exactly is the cigar "goodness" in the cigar at the start?

I'm glad you asked that question.

Being hydrophilic, goodness is typically attached to the cellulose molecules in the tobacco leaves by hydrogen bonding. The early hypothesis suggested in the 1950s that goodness is attached to the lignins in the tobacco has been shown to be false.

However, as water molecules are present in the environment (70% humidity is RELATIVE humidity of course, and that is relative to pure water at that same temperature and pressure), they compete for the goodness binding sites on the cellulose.

It comes as no surprise, thus, that storage at very high humidity causes problems. For one, goodness molecules are freed up and molds are able to feast on them. For another, long term storage at high humidity results in a LGC ... that would be Low Goodness Cigar, for the noobs.

So not only should cigars be stored foot up, but at humidity where the goodnes is not out-competed by water molecules. That has been shown to be around 60-70% RELATIVE humidity.

Storage at too low humidity results in activation of GD enzymes. That would be Goodness Destroying enzymes, for the noobs. That is why you can't store cigars at too low or too high humidities. It all relates to dG/dt .. or the rate of goodness change with time.

[rharris]

So if I store my crappy cigars horizontally underneath my good ones(stored vertically)Will some of the goodness become imparted and replace some of the crappiness? Or is it possible that crapiness rises maybe through osmosis?

[rharris]

This thread has given a lot of
Better
Understanding
Longterm
Ligero
Storage
Hydrophillic
Interaction
Terms

OR, B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T. if one prefers.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by rharris

So if I store my crappy cigars horizontally underneath my good ones(stored vertically)Will some of the goodness become imparted and replace some of the crappiness? Or is it possible that crapiness rises maybe through osmosis?

The density of goodness is so great that, even when it is in the vapor form, it follows gravity to the center of the earth, being so much denser than air. But sadly, crappiness is less dense than air and rises .... and as you no doubt know ... once vapors of goodness and crapiness meet, they cancel each other out, just like matter and antimatter. So you risk a stock of insipid cigars by storing good ones above poorer ones.

[rharris]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

The density of goodness is so great that, even when it is in the vapor form, it follows gravity to the center of the earth, being so much denser than air. But sadly, crappiness is less dense than air and rises .... and as you no doubt know ... once vapors of goodness and crapiness meet, they cancel each other out, just like matter and antimatter. So you risk a stock of insipid cigars by storing good ones above poorer ones.

So with this new information in mind,would it be safe to say that your theory is perhaps best summed up by saying that Horizontal Organization Reactions Seem (to)Exhibit Some Higher Inclination (of) Taste? Or H.O.R.S.E.S.H.I.T for short?

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by rharris

So with this new information in mind,would it be safe to say that your theory is perhaps best summed up by saying that Horizontal Organization Reactions Seem (to)Exhibit Some Higher Inclination (of) Taste? Or H.O.R.S.E.S.H.I.T for short?

EXACTLY!

I love when somebody can summarize a complex theory with a single word ... or acronym I suppose.

[lightning9191]

Dammit this thread went legendary on me

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

I'm glad you asked that question.

Being hydrophilic, goodness is typically attached to the cellulose molecules in the tobacco leaves by hydrogen bonding. The early hypothesis suggested in the 1950s that goodness is attached to the lignins in the tobacco has been shown to be false.

However, as water molecules are present in the environment (70% humidity is RELATIVE humidity of course, and that is relative to pure water at that same temperature and pressure), they compete for the goodness binding sites on the cellulose.

It comes as no surprise, thus, that storage at very high humidity causes problems. For one, goodness molecules are freed up and molds are able to feast on them. For another, long term storage at high humidity results in a LGC ... that would be Low Goodness Cigar, for the noobs.

So not only should cigars be stored foot up, but at humidity where the goodnes is not out-competed by water molecules. That has been shown to be around 60-70% RELATIVE humidity.

Storage at too low humidity results in activation of GD enzymes. That would be Goodness Destroying enzymes, for the noobs. That is why you can't store cigars at too low or too high humidities. It all relates to dG/dt .. or the rate of goodness change with time.

In your model goodness is always deteriorating. Then how do we factor in that aging is supposed to increase the goodness in a cigar typically.

Your theory may still need work. Or I have not understood your excellent explinations.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by Legend

In your model goodness is always deteriorating.

If the cigar is stored foot up, the goodness will not leave the cigar, even if it dissociates temporarily from the cellulouse. You can calculate that yourself using Fick's equation if you like. Just remember the ρ of goodness is 11.14 kg/m3. For the cigar to lose goodness, it has to exit the foot ... stagnant layer and all, as a man of your stature would see immediately, that would not happen before centuries pass if stored foot up.

Then how do we factor in that aging is supposed to increase the goodness in a cigar typically.

Actually that is quite simple. Master cases of cigars .... you're familiar with that term right ... being a legend and all ... are used up top to bottom. So .. the longer the cigar box has sat in the remainder of the master case, the more goodness has dripped down from cigars from above. Once the bottom layer is removed from the master case, it will degrade in quality. That is why cigars improve with age and then decline.

Your theory may still need work. Or I have not understood your excellent explinations.

Grasshopper ... you will understand one day.