Beetles help

[Raralith]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

This is not correct, freezing does in fact kill off dormant eggs, larvae, pupai, and full grown beetles.

There is an extensive study done on this, I have a copy of the white paper if you would like to read it. Also I posted the link above.

Sure, I'd like to see this. The post you made is just your procedure, but I did you take any cigars and leave it in your car for a week at 100 F and see if anything hatched? Not that I could see.

The Cuban government freezes their cigars too, and you can definately get eggs from CC's so I highly highly highly doubt that freezing would kill all eggs. Fortunately, I've got a way to test this, and am willing to so you'll see something shortly. I've also heard a lot, but no real test to back any of it up.

Originally Posted by Raralith

Sure, I'd like to see this. The post you made is just your procedure, but I did you take any cigars and leave it in your car for a week at 100 F and see if anything hatched? Not that I could see.

The Cuban government freezes their cigars too, and you can definately get eggs from CC's so I highly highly highly doubt that freezing would kill all eggs. Fortunately, I've got a way to test this, and am willing to so you'll see something shortly. I've also heard a lot, but no real test to back any of it up.

The study is located here.

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/...41_87/_article

Feel free to read at your leisure.

My thread is the procedure as well as excerpts of the empirical evidence as provided in the study, not just my procedure as you so kindly note.

Leaving a cigar in a car for a week is hardly a controlled study.

I have first hand experience with Beetles in 2 cases. Freezing corrected both instances to assume that all I had was one live beetle and no other eggs or other issues would put at risk my entire collection and I am not willing to risk 1,800 cigars on a maybe.

I have had this argument many times and only provide the scientific study that was undertaken as support plus my own personal experience, not the "I read it somewhere in a thread but can't remember" anecdote.

As for freezing at the source I have noted that as well here is the quote from that thread.

One of the first things to understand is that although many producers including cubans may flash freeze their cigars that is only one point on the stop to your humidor. Also cigars are very insulative and given that we do not fully know the quality control of the producer there is risk that eggs are not killed. In addition there are points along the way that beetles can be introduced, secondary wholesaler, vendor, or sadly that fellow BOTL or SOTL that so kindly bombed you are sold you a few sticks.

In addition although not first hand knowledge, someone I trust and is a very knowledgeable BOTL has gone to Cuba on many occasions and has noted that freezing although in place is not the standard.

If you don't agree with the study or me that is fine but to make a categorical statement to someones request based on heresay doesn't seem like the best advice.

Either way I respect that in your opinion freezing will not work, it is not my opinion but that is the great thing about an opinion it is your right to have one as is it mine.

[sepp]

Here is a link to the full article:

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/aez/41/1/87/_pdf

it is important to note that the exposure time changes with the depth of tempurature drop.

to eliminate beetles in any stage of development they must be exposed to the following temperatures at the stipulated minimum times:

Temperature (C/F) -> Min time (Hours)
-20C/- 4F -> 1 hrs
-15C/+ 5F -> 6
-10C/+14F -> 24
- 5C/+23F -> 504
+0C/+32F -> 1,176
+5C/+41F -> 1,680

Note that additional time is required to ensure that the temperature has dropped to such levels at the core of the cigars.

Leave not doubt, freeze and kill the little bastards!