stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

MajorCaptSilly · 02-22-2009, 03:25 PM

Do you really think that cigar manufacturers make varying quality cigars for B&Ms vs internet retailers? I just don't think that's possible. I do think that long-term storage can be a problem at some of the internet retailers. Many tend to keep cigars at higher humidity levels so they can ship better. If cigars are kept at over 70% humidity for long periods of time, I can see some chemical changes happening that could cause problems. I've also been at some B&M's with serious humidity issues. I just don't buy the fact that B&M's are getting "better" cigars.

MCS

icehog3 · 02-22-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

Do you really think that cigar manufacturers make varying quality cigars for B&Ms vs internet retailers? I just don't think that's possible. I do think that long-term storage can be a problem at some of the internet retailers. Many tend to keep cigars at higher humidity levels so they can ship better. If cigars are kept at over 70% humidity for long periods of time, I can see some chemical changes happening that could cause problems. I've also been at some B&M's with serious humidity issues. I just don't buy the fact that B&M's are getting "better" cigars.
MCS

100% agreed.

alley00p · 02-22-2009, 03:44 PM

I talked about this with my local B&M owner. He deals with companies directly when possible, but there is always Ataldis and other major companies that only deal through their distributors.

That being said, he keeps a good variety of sticks in his humidor, and is constanly changing what he orders, based on what his customers are looking for. For instance, he only keeps a few different Gurkhas because they don't move well. And being a smaller shop (not one of the big chains locally), he can't afford to place orders for a few thousand $ of sticks if they are going to sit on his shelves and not sell.

I always buy a couple of sticks when I go in, but I also bring sticks in that I have been gifted or bought online. He dislikes the online stores, not so much because they can beat his prices, but because he says you can't ever be sure how the cigars have been stored in their warehouse.

Bottom line is that I go there for the fellowship of the other cigar smokers who come in and are regulars. There is something about smoking in the company of others, as was mentioned above!

Lucky_Hippo · 02-22-2009, 04:39 PM

This is why placebos sometimes work. The power of suggestion is a powerful drug, but it often brings an unwelcome bias when searching for "truth".

Big, cold, unattentive, warehouse cyber store.

or

Small, warm, personable, boutique-like cigar shop.

The cards are kind of stacked in the favor of the B&M when your data is pulled from a polling group of B&M regulars.

To get true data, I'm with the other guys above. You'd have to do a blind tasting, using unbiased cigar smokers without affiliations, and product stored/treated in the exact same conditions for a pre-disposed amount of time. AND not tell the smokers what they should be looking for and let them figure it out themselves.

Conspiracy theorys are fun. It just seems like an awful lot of work for ALL cigar manufacturers to follow up on when in fact, the secrets between each company could fill the grand canyon.

But hey, I also think my mom's fried chicken is the best in the world too.

stitch · 02-22-2009, 04:53 PM

There aint a B&M within a 7 hour drive of me ....So ..........
JR & FSS Internet Big guy's here I come!

02-22-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky_Hippo

This is why placebos sometimes work. The power of suggestion is a powerful drug, but it often brings an unwelcome bias when searching for "truth".

Big, cold, unattentive, warehouse cyber store.

or

Small, warm, personable, boutique-like cigar shop.

The cards are kind of stacked in the favor of the B&M when your data is pulled from a polling group of B&M regulars.

.

Agreed. But how do you account for the blind tests? 100% they knew the difference.

02-22-2009, 06:31 PM

2 points.

1. I am not saying the internet cigars are bad. I am not saying the internet cigars are bad. Just not as good as the locals. With a noticeable difference. Not even saying a significant difference. Just noticeable.

2. Wher is the extra cost is separating box X from box Y. They can separate by brand. Name. Type. Size but not quality too? Why not? Why is that so much more expensive? Take nestor or don pepin. Both make tons of cigars for many different guys. In different sizes. Wrappers etc etc etc. But adding one more variable is gonna break the bank? Hogwash.

potlimit · 02-22-2009, 06:34 PM

As someone with post-grad work in stats I can tell you that if the sample size is large enough, a number like %100 would make me skeptical of the whole experiment... just from a purely experimental standpoint. You'd have to expect SOME variance in SOME variable.

From a personal standpoint, lately I've found that the sticks I've ordered from Atlantic (Cubao 1's and 5's and DPG blue label torps) have been just as good, if not better than those I've smoked at my B&M.

02-22-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potlimit

As someone with post-grad work in stats I can tell you that if the sample size is large enough, a number like %100 would make me skeptical of the whole experiment... just from a purely experimental standpoint. You'd have to expect SOME variance in SOME variable.

.

Agreed. So either

1. I'm lying.

Or

2. The stat Is telling of a noticeable(not significant) difference.

mikeyj23 · 02-22-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend

Agreed. So either

1. I'm lying.

Or

2. The stat Is telling of a noticeable(not significant) difference.

Exactly

icehog3 · 02-22-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend

Agreed. So either

1. I'm lying.

Or

2. The stat Is telling of a noticeable(not significant) difference.

No accusations of lying here. I take your word that the results for the tests you have been present for are what you are saying they are.

I just don't buy it that manufacturers are putting good ( and/or different) tobacco in B&M cigars, and "scraps" in the cigars sold on the internet. I am guessing that a large amount of the cigars go to distributors who supply both B&Ms and Internet retailers. I would bet there are other differences accounting for your results, and also that different groups would likely have different results.

02-22-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

Do you really think that cigar manufacturers make varying quality cigars for B&Ms vs internet retailers? I just don't think that's possible. I do think that long-term storage can be a problem at some of the internet retailers. Many tend to keep cigars at higher humidity levels so they can ship better. If cigars are kept at over 70% humidity for long periods of time, I can see some chemical changes happening that could cause problems. I've also been at some B&M's with serious humidity issues. I just don't buy the fact that B&M's are getting "better" cigars.

MCS

I agree with him %100.

Ahbroody · 02-28-2009, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

Do you really think that cigar manufacturers make varying quality cigars for B&Ms vs internet retailers? I just don't think that's possible. I do think that long-term storage can be a problem at some of the internet retailers. Many tend to keep cigars at higher humidity levels so they can ship better. If cigars are kept at over 70% humidity for long periods of time, I can see some chemical changes happening that could cause problems. I've also been at some B&M's with serious humidity issues. I just don't buy the fact that B&M's are getting "better" cigars.

MCS

Agreed also.
Most know and understand that internet sticks require longer before smoking. On first arrival most go to **** about 1/2 way. 4 months later I dont believe theres a difference. I said before and I will say again. I have done splits on internet cigars with PEOPLE WHO WORK AT B&M. They dont believe there to be a difference after the sticks have rested long enough.

That said when I walk into the B&M I go to and yes its a full blown shop, I generally always buy a stick even if I am smoking something from home such as an CC or less common stick. So long as I am not flat broke. I think most shops gripes are that regulars come in with internet sticks all the time rarely buy there sticks but use there facilities.

02-22-2009, 03:25 PM	#1
MajorCaptSilly Sklee Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Scott Location: Mishawaka, IN Posts: 2,523 Trading: (30)	Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet Do you really think that cigar manufacturers make varying quality cigars for B&Ms vs internet retailers? I just don't think that's possible. I do think that long-term storage can be a problem at some of the internet retailers. Many tend to keep cigars at higher humidity levels so they can ship better. If cigars are kept at over 70% humidity for long periods of time, I can see some chemical changes happening that could cause problems. I've also been at some B&M's with serious humidity issues. I just don't buy the fact that B&M's are getting "better" cigars. MCS __________________ Pillsbury, Minneapolis, Prince, Spoon Bridge and Cherry, coinkydink?

02-22-2009, 03:44 PM	#3
alley00p Adopted MassHole Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Charlie Location: HOCKEYTOWN! Posts: 1,770 Trading: (41)	Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet I talked about this with my local B&M owner. He deals with companies directly when possible, but there is always Ataldis and other major companies that only deal through their distributors. That being said, he keeps a good variety of sticks in his humidor, and is constanly changing what he orders, based on what his customers are looking for. For instance, he only keeps a few different Gurkhas because they don't move well. And being a smaller shop (not one of the big chains locally), he can't afford to place orders for a few thousand $ of sticks if they are going to sit on his shelves and not sell. I always buy a couple of sticks when I go in, but I also bring sticks in that I have been gifted or bought online. He dislikes the online stores, not so much because they can beat his prices, but because he says you can't ever be sure how the cigars have been stored in their warehouse. Bottom line is that I go there for the fellowship of the other cigar smokers who come in and are regulars. There is something about smoking in the company of others, as was mentioned above! __________________ Alley00p - I may be a FOG, but I'm still trying to dance!! Just don't trip over my cane!

02-22-2009, 04:39 PM	#4
Lucky_Hippo A Cigar = 42 Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Gary Location: Kansas Posts: 494 Trading: (2)	Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet This is why placebos sometimes work. The power of suggestion is a powerful drug, but it often brings an unwelcome bias when searching for "truth". Big, cold, unattentive, warehouse cyber store. or Small, warm, personable, boutique-like cigar shop. The cards are kind of stacked in the favor of the B&M when your data is pulled from a polling group of B&M regulars. To get true data, I'm with the other guys above. You'd have to do a blind tasting, using unbiased cigar smokers without affiliations, and product stored/treated in the exact same conditions for a pre-disposed amount of time. AND not tell the smokers what they should be looking for and let them figure it out themselves. Conspiracy theorys are fun. It just seems like an awful lot of work for ALL cigar manufacturers to follow up on when in fact, the secrets between each company could fill the grand canyon. But hey, I also think my mom's fried chicken is the best in the world too. __________________ Who wants an orange whip? Orange whip? Orange whip? Three orange whips. -J.Candy

02-22-2009, 04:53 PM	#5
stitch Saddle Maker And Cowboy Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Diamond K Ranch Posts: 720 Trading: (34)	Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet There aint a B&M within a 7 hour drive of me ....So .......... JR & FSS Internet Big guy's here I come! __________________ Cowboy Wisdom: Ifin' ya get to thinkin yourself a might bit important, Try tellin someone else's dog what to do.

02-22-2009, 06:31 PM	#7
Legend Guest Posts: n/a	Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet 2 points. 1. I am not saying the internet cigars are bad. I am not saying the internet cigars are bad. Just not as good as the locals. With a noticeable difference. Not even saying a significant difference. Just noticeable. 2. Wher is the extra cost is separating box X from box Y. They can separate by brand. Name. Type. Size but not quality too? Why not? Why is that so much more expensive? Take nestor or don pepin. Both make tons of cigars for many different guys. In different sizes. Wrappers etc etc etc. But adding one more variable is gonna break the bank? Hogwash.

02-22-2009, 06:34 PM	#8
potlimit Still Watching My Back Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: LA/NY Posts: 131 Trading: (7)	Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet As someone with post-grad work in stats I can tell you that if the sample size is large enough, a number like %100 would make me skeptical of the whole experiment... just from a purely experimental standpoint. You'd have to expect SOME variance in SOME variable. From a personal standpoint, lately I've found that the sticks I've ordered from Atlantic (Cubao 1's and 5's and DPG blue label torps) have been just as good, if not better than those I've smoked at my B&M.