stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Originally Posted by Raralith

I don't understand your supporting statements since there's isn't a whole lot of support.

1. Were they all blind test? How many did you smoke? How many did you have other people try? This is pretty subjective too...


Honestly, a cigar is just a cigar. What makes a good cigar better is perception and mood. Take for example tea; I love tea. Tea's great, and I've got a lot of different brands, variety, and even aged tea. But, the best tea is tea with good friends and company, and even the highest grade tea taste terrible when one is in a foul mood.

First statement. I couldn't give you an exact number of tests or guys. We do it a lot. Its kind of a game at our lounge. A guy will bring in 4 or 5 sticks. The botl will buy the same and we will test. Sometimes blind sometimes not. The most telling thing is 100% say the local is better. It never fails. This is absolutely subjective but telling none the less.

Your last statement I completely agree with. My best smokes have been on dates with my wife when we are really enjoying each other.

[chippewastud79]

I don't really buy the "Internet and B+M cigars are actually different cigars to save money" argument. Although your "experiments" with the two different types are interesting, I think they are nothing more than a bias. The only way to truly tell if your "experiments" can be taken as conclusive would be to take one of each, place them in the same storage conditions for an extended period of time and then smoke them each blind with no prior knowledge of knowing one was from the internet and one was from a B+M. Without actual evidence for the "different cigar" theory, I don't think there is any argument that can be made claiming this.

[MajorCaptSilly]

Do you really think that cigar manufacturers make varying quality cigars for B&Ms vs internet retailers? I just don't think that's possible. I do think that long-term storage can be a problem at some of the internet retailers. Many tend to keep cigars at higher humidity levels so they can ship better. If cigars are kept at over 70% humidity for long periods of time, I can see some chemical changes happening that could cause problems. I've also been at some B&M's with serious humidity issues. I just don't buy the fact that B&M's are getting "better" cigars.

MCS

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

Do you really think that cigar manufacturers make varying quality cigars for B&Ms vs internet retailers? I just don't think that's possible. I do think that long-term storage can be a problem at some of the internet retailers. Many tend to keep cigars at higher humidity levels so they can ship better. If cigars are kept at over 70% humidity for long periods of time, I can see some chemical changes happening that could cause problems. I've also been at some B&M's with serious humidity issues. I just don't buy the fact that B&M's are getting "better" cigars.
MCS

100% agreed.

[alley00p]

I talked about this with my local B&M owner. He deals with companies directly when possible, but there is always Ataldis and other major companies that only deal through their distributors.

That being said, he keeps a good variety of sticks in his humidor, and is constanly changing what he orders, based on what his customers are looking for. For instance, he only keeps a few different Gurkhas because they don't move well. And being a smaller shop (not one of the big chains locally), he can't afford to place orders for a few thousand $ of sticks if they are going to sit on his shelves and not sell.

I always buy a couple of sticks when I go in, but I also bring sticks in that I have been gifted or bought online. He dislikes the online stores, not so much because they can beat his prices, but because he says you can't ever be sure how the cigars have been stored in their warehouse.

Bottom line is that I go there for the fellowship of the other cigar smokers who come in and are regulars. There is something about smoking in the company of others, as was mentioned above!

[Lucky_Hippo]

This is why placebos sometimes work. The power of suggestion is a powerful drug, but it often brings an unwelcome bias when searching for "truth".

Big, cold, unattentive, warehouse cyber store.

or

Small, warm, personable, boutique-like cigar shop.

The cards are kind of stacked in the favor of the B&M when your data is pulled from a polling group of B&M regulars.

To get true data, I'm with the other guys above. You'd have to do a blind tasting, using unbiased cigar smokers without affiliations, and product stored/treated in the exact same conditions for a pre-disposed amount of time. AND not tell the smokers what they should be looking for and let them figure it out themselves.

Conspiracy theorys are fun. It just seems like an awful lot of work for ALL cigar manufacturers to follow up on when in fact, the secrets between each company could fill the grand canyon.

But hey, I also think my mom's fried chicken is the best in the world too.

[stitch]

There aint a B&M within a 7 hour drive of me ....So ..........
JR & FSS Internet Big guy's here I come!

Originally Posted by Lucky_Hippo

This is why placebos sometimes work. The power of suggestion is a powerful drug, but it often brings an unwelcome bias when searching for "truth".

Big, cold, unattentive, warehouse cyber store.

or

Small, warm, personable, boutique-like cigar shop.

The cards are kind of stacked in the favor of the B&M when your data is pulled from a polling group of B&M regulars.

.

Agreed. But how do you account for the blind tests? 100% they knew the difference.

2 points.

1. I am not saying the internet cigars are bad. I am not saying the internet cigars are bad. Just not as good as the locals. With a noticeable difference. Not even saying a significant difference. Just noticeable.

2. Wher is the extra cost is separating box X from box Y. They can separate by brand. Name. Type. Size but not quality too? Why not? Why is that so much more expensive? Take nestor or don pepin. Both make tons of cigars for many different guys. In different sizes. Wrappers etc etc etc. But adding one more variable is gonna break the bank? Hogwash.

[potlimit]

As someone with post-grad work in stats I can tell you that if the sample size is large enough, a number like %100 would make me skeptical of the whole experiment... just from a purely experimental standpoint. You'd have to expect SOME variance in SOME variable.

From a personal standpoint, lately I've found that the sticks I've ordered from Atlantic (Cubao 1's and 5's and DPG blue label torps) have been just as good, if not better than those I've smoked at my B&M.

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

Do you really think that cigar manufacturers make varying quality cigars for B&Ms vs internet retailers? I just don't think that's possible. I do think that long-term storage can be a problem at some of the internet retailers. Many tend to keep cigars at higher humidity levels so they can ship better. If cigars are kept at over 70% humidity for long periods of time, I can see some chemical changes happening that could cause problems. I've also been at some B&M's with serious humidity issues. I just don't buy the fact that B&M's are getting "better" cigars.

MCS

I agree with him %100.

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

Do you really think that cigar manufacturers make varying quality cigars for B&Ms vs internet retailers? I just don't think that's possible. I do think that long-term storage can be a problem at some of the internet retailers. Many tend to keep cigars at higher humidity levels so they can ship better. If cigars are kept at over 70% humidity for long periods of time, I can see some chemical changes happening that could cause problems. I've also been at some B&M's with serious humidity issues. I just don't buy the fact that B&M's are getting "better" cigars.

MCS

Agreed also.
Most know and understand that internet sticks require longer before smoking. On first arrival most go to **** about 1/2 way. 4 months later I dont believe theres a difference. I said before and I will say again. I have done splits on internet cigars with PEOPLE WHO WORK AT B&M. They dont believe there to be a difference after the sticks have rested long enough.

That said when I walk into the B&M I go to and yes its a full blown shop, I generally always buy a stick even if I am smoking something from home such as an CC or less common stick. So long as I am not flat broke. I think most shops gripes are that regulars come in with internet sticks all the time rarely buy there sticks but use there facilities.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

The only way to truly tell if your "experiments" can be taken as conclusive would be to take one of each, place them in the same storage conditions for an extended period of time and then smoke them each blind with no prior knowledge of knowing one was from the internet and one was from a B+M. Without actual evidence for the "different cigar" theory, I don't think there is any argument that can be made claiming this.

Absolutely agree with the above. Blind is the only way to go, any other side by side comparison is "prejudiced" from the start whether one admits to it or not.

I also seriously doubt manufacturers produce 2 separate batches, one for B&M and another for internet. One never knows where the cigars will end eventually plus it would take MORE, man power wise, to produce separate batches, store separately, etc. As a manufacturer (not cigars, though) I can simply say this is BS and a myth form many points of view as it would only increase the cost of production of BOTH batches.

That said, I can't even begin to fathom why anyone would even come up with this theory/myth unless whoever started this BS asked one question without delving into follow up questions such as, "So, this tobacco is used for bundled seconds?" And a few more, just to see if factory workers are simply playing with you (which I could see as they are bored out of their minds on a hot day and need to poke fun at a turista).

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Absolutely agree with the above. Blind is the only way to go, any other side by side comparison is "prejudiced" from the start whether one admits to it or not.

I also seriously doubt manufacturers produce 2 separate batches, one for B&M and another for internet. One never knows where the cigars will end eventually plus it would take MORE, man power wise, to produce separate batches, store separately, etc. As a manufacturer (not cigars, though) I can simply say this is BS and a myth form many points of view as it would only increase the cost of production of BOTH batches.

That said, I can't even begin to fathom why anyone would even come up with this theory/myth unless whoever started this BS asked one question without delving into follow up questions such as, "So, this tobacco is used for bundled seconds?" And a few more, just to see if factory workers are simply playing with you (which I could see as they are bored out of their minds on a hot day and need to poke fun at a turista).

Wow! Strong opinion. Very sure. Wasn't there.

[SeanGAR]

No difference, guaranteed. Any difference you think you detect in your non blind test may more likely be due to your shops cigars being 6 months older than internet cigars.

Unless you do the cigar testing double blind with cigars of equivalent age the results are spurious.

Now, I'm sure that you realize that it has been conclusively proven that all cigars that are sold on the internet are made of worms and soaked in wolverine urine. Maybe that is the reason for the difference you detect?