Official SEC Football Thread 2011

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by SvilleKid

I know that.... Duh... But the point is made as stated!!! It could also apply to the OkSt, but the Big Ten was in that situation several times in the past several years. Which WAS the point.

So you were just bringing up 2007(Jan 2008)....4 years ago, the last time it was relevant?????


SEC....SEC....SEC....

[ninjavanish]

Originally Posted by E.J.

So you were just bringing up 2007(Jan 2008)....4 years ago, the last time it was relevant?????


SEC....SEC....SEC....

I think the point is that the Big Ten is irrelevant.

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

I think the point is that the Big Ten is irrelevant.

I can agree with that.... Though I honestly believe that Urban Meyer will change that quickly, to my dismay....

[ninjavanish]

Originally Posted by E.J.

I can agree with that.... Though I honestly believe that Urban Meyer will change that quickly, to my dismay....

Well, I think that may be a good thing for the NCAA as a whole... assuming he is successful.

The thing to take away from today's selection is that there's obviously a struggle for all other conferences to have relevancy against the dominance of the SEC lately. (And to all of you nay-sayers, it doesn't matter at this point, the chips have fallen and make no mistake, there WILL BE a national champion from the SEC this season)

So for those who want to see more than one conference playing for the title... having someone like Urban Meyer go into the Big Ten is not a bad thing. However, I think there are plenty of great coaches outside the SEC. For the SEC, it's a chance to prove (or further prove) that it's perhaps not the coaches that make the difference, but our culture.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

So for those who want to see more than one conference playing for the title... having someone like Urban Meyer go into the Big Ten is not a bad thing. However, I think there are plenty of great coaches outside the SEC. For the SEC, it's a chance to prove (or further prove) that it's perhaps not the coaches that make the difference, but our culture.

Pray tell, where was that, "culture" prior to Nick Saban becoming the head coach at Alabama (or LSU for that matter)? Further, where's the, "culture" now at Florida without Urban Meyer? Is all the, "culture" dried up in Knoxville, too?

[rizzle]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Pray tell, where was that, "culture" prior to Nick Saban becoming the head coach at Alabama (or LSU for that matter)? Further, where's the, "culture" now at Florida without Urban Meyer? Is all the, "culture" dried up in Knoxville, too?

Culture? You know we're a bunch of inbred hicks. We ain't never had no culturing.

[ninjavanish]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Pray tell, where was that, "culture" prior to Nick Saban becoming the head coach at Alabama (or LSU for that matter)? Further, where's the, "culture" now at Florida without Urban Meyer? Is all the, "culture" dried up in Knoxville, too?

Stephen, I think you misunderstand my statement. The point that was being made is there are plenty of great coaches outside of the SEC. And I think that Urban Meyer is a prime example of a great coach that doesn't matter where he goes, will impact a team, conference and potentially all of college football. The distinction I was trying to make however is that perhaps there is more to winning championships than simply having a good head coach. (Ahem, Charlie Weiss, Dennis Erickson, Dave Wandstedt, the list goes on.)

As to the culture of the Southeastern US, football is an integral part of it. It is woven into the fabric of our existence nearly from birth in most states below the Mason-Dixon line (Sometimes even from CONCEPTION. I for one have seen baby nurseries painted in team color).

I won't speak for the cultures of Louisiana, Florida or Tennessee, but as for the football culture in the state Alabama, I think anyone who has ever worn Crimson and White or Burnt Orange and Blue would happily inform you about said culture. (I'm sure even our Division II Team from UNA in Florence, AL might have some input, or perhaps Troy University further south) However, being a subjective matter and one of personal taste I will leave that up to you to figure out. I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter.

[Powers]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

Stephen, I think you misunderstand my statement. The point that was being made is there are plenty of great coaches outside of the SEC. And I think that Urban Meyer is a prime example of a great coach that doesn't matter where he goes, will impact a team, conference and potentially all of college football. The distinction I was trying to make however is that perhaps there is more to winning championships than simply having a good head coach. (Ahem, Charlie Weiss, Dennis Erickson, Dave Wandstedt, the list goes on.)

As to the culture of the Southeastern US, football is an integral part of it. It is woven into the fabric of our existence nearly from birth in most states below the Mason-Dixon line (Sometimes even from CONCEPTION. I for one have seen baby nurseries painted in team color).

I won't speak for the cultures of Louisiana, Florida or Tennessee, but as for the football culture in the state Alabama, I think anyone who has ever worn Crimson and White or Burnt Orange and Blue would happily inform you about said culture. (I'm sure even our Division II Team from UNA in Florence, AL might have some input, or perhaps Troy University further south) However, being a subjective matter and one of personal taste I will leave that up to you to figure out. I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter.

I said exactly the same thing in so many words over on the BCS thread at nearly the same time in response to another question

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

Stephen, I think you misunderstand my statement. The point that was being made is there are plenty of great coaches outside of the SEC. And I think that Urban Meyer is a prime example of a great coach that doesn't matter where he goes, will impact a team, conference and potentially all of college football. The distinction I was trying to make however is that perhaps there is more to winning championships than simply having a good head coach. (Ahem, Charlie Weiss, Dennis Erickson, Dave Wandstedt, the list goes on.)

As to the culture of the Southeastern US, football is an integral part of it. It is woven into the fabric of our existence nearly from birth in most states below the Mason-Dixon line (Sometimes even from CONCEPTION. I for one have seen baby nurseries painted in team color).

I won't speak for the cultures of Louisiana, Florida or Tennessee, but as for the football culture in the state Alabama, I think anyone who has ever worn Crimson and White or Burnt Orange and Blue would happily inform you about said culture. (I'm sure even our Division II Team from UNA in Florence, AL might have some input, or perhaps Troy University further south) However, being a subjective matter and one of personal taste I will leave that up to you to figure out. I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter.

Framed within the context of your statement, I am talking about culture = victories and/or Championships. Sure, the dyed-in-the-wool fanbases go back generations. The winning, however, doesn't happen until the program acquires a top flight coach that in turn brings in top flight talent. How many times have we seen this happen over the last 15 years in college football? USC was floundering before Carroll, Oklahoma before Stoops, Texas before Brown, LSU and Alabama before Saban.

[OLS]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter.

I know you are not HE, but there was another diehard homer in this thread that said quite the opposite.
Nick Saban was brought in to completely change the culture of Alabama football from one of losing and
scandal to one of winning and goodness and character. I only remember it because while he was forcing
that down my throat, he was calling my preferred team a bunch of criminals and thugs that he predicted
"would turn out as losers in life." ---edit---and were a stain on the SEC, the 2011 season, and any hopes
we might have of him watching either the championship game or the NCG in February. (eyeroll)

[OLS]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Pray tell, where was that, "culture" prior to Nick Saban becoming the head coach at Alabama (or LSU for that matter)?

Odd that you would highlight those two teams, and especially LSU. LSU and Bama have had one
thing without a doubt for WELL over a century, and that is that no matter how bad the teams were losing,
they never failed to sell out their venues. In LA there IS a culture. Not only do we compete on very
even turf against FL and TX for best football players in the country, but our fans never give up.
The Saints were, as Howard Cosell once put it on Monday Night Football as I sat and watched,
the 'galvanized garbage can of the N--F--L...", and their fans NEVER gave up being behind the team.
Even the AINTS bagheads displayed their bags from fairly good seats in the dome.
You can't win a football culture argument in Louisiana. I will let the Crimson Elephants defend their own
team, because they don't listen to me anyway.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by OLS

Odd that you would highlight those two teams, and especially LSU. LSU and Bama have had one
thing without a doubt for WELL over a century, and that is that no matter how bad the teams were losing,
they never failed to sell out their venues. In LA there IS a culture. Not only do we compete on very
even turf against FL and TX for best football players in the country, but our fans never give up.
The Saints were, as Howard Cosell once put it on Monday Night Football as I sat and watched,
the 'galvanized garbage can of the N--F--L...", and their fans NEVER gave up being behind the team.
Even the AINTS bagheads displayed their bags from fairly good seats in the dome.
You can't win a football culture argument in Louisiana. I will let the Crimson Elephants defend their own
team, because they don't listen to me anyway.

I'm talking about the culture of winning, Brad. Rabid fandom has always run rampant in places that we're discussing. My argument, however, is that this, "culture" doesn't manifest itself in the win column like ninjavanish put forth, especially in lieu of a good/great coach (because with good coaches come good recruits).

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

For the SEC, it's a chance to prove (or further prove) that it's perhaps not the coaches that make the difference, but our culture.

[SvilleKid]

Originally Posted by E.J.

So you were just bringing up 2007(Jan 2008)....4 years ago, the last time it was relevant?????


SEC....SEC....SEC....

Bye bye! Already have one ignored one on this thread. Let's just make it two. Don't argue with him, Ninja. He is just like Another here in that he wants to argue just to argue. Not worth the trouble. Arguing just to be arguing.

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by SvilleKid

Bye bye! Already have one ignored one on this thread. Let's just make it two. Don't argue with him, Ninja. He is just like Another here in that he wants to argue just to argue. Not worth the trouble. Arguing just to be arguing.

So that is how it works..... Personally, I thought I came in here with some good discussion, some numbers to back up my point/thoughts ect.... If I appear to be arguing just to argue, that was not the intent. Admittedly, the response to you had no point, other than to point out you were talking rubbish. What, you've brought up "the BIG10" and then "asking others not to play with the guy that doesn't think like you do....that will make him go away" Honestly, from what I have seen from you so far, it may be best if you did just ignore me.... It seems pretty clear that you'd probably be out of your league....so to speak....

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

The thing to take away from today's selection is that there's obviously a struggle for all other conferences to have relevancy against the dominance of the SEC lately. (And to all of you nay-sayers, it doesn't matter at this point, the chips have fallen and make no mistake, there WILL BE a national champion from the SEC this season)

Originally Posted by E.J.

Okay...yes, I can see how all other conferences having relevance or even trying to compete, well....there should probably be the SEC....SEC....SEC....and then D2.....

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

Not sure I'm following you here, what are you trying to say?

The highlighted in red was what I was responding to.

[ninjavanish]

Originally Posted by E.J.

The highlighted in red was what I was responding to.

The thing to take away from today's selection is that there's obviously a struggle for all other conferences to have relevancy against the dominance of the SEC lately.

Originally Posted by E.J.

Okay...yes, I can see how all other conferences having relevance or even trying to compete, well....there should probably be the SEC....SEC....SEC....and then D2.....

I understand what your response was in regards to. It's the content of your reply that I'm not following you on. Is it to refute the dominance of the SEC in recent years? Or are you saying that all other conferences should be relegated to playing in Division II? That's where I'm confused.

[SvilleKid]

Jeremy..... As we discussed, I went back and did a little research. In the weeks that they played.... Per Coach's poll: Both Bama and Oklahoma State played 4 Top-25 ranked teams each. Alabama played against 20, 12, 12 and # 1 ranked teams. Ok St played a 8, 21, 12 and 11. These were using the Coaches poll placement at the start of each game.

So, AT THE TIME of each game, both Bama and Ok St each played four top 25 ranked teams. And Ok St only played the fourth ranked team because of their conference championship game.

Bama lost to undefeated No. 1 ranked LSU at the time of the loss. Ok St lost to un-ranked Iowa State, who had a record of 5-4 going into the game. Just thought you'd find the data interesting, and sets record straight as to how many "ranked" teams each of these two played.

[ninjavanish]

Originally Posted by SvilleKid

Jeremy..... As we discussed, I went back and did a little research. In the weeks that they played.... Per Coach's poll: Both Bama and Oklahoma State played 4 Top-25 ranked teams each. Alabama played against 20, 12, 12 and # 1 ranked teams. Ok St played a 8, 21, 12 and 11. These were using the Coaches poll placement at the start of each game.

So, AT THE TIME of each game, both Bama and Ok St each played four top 25 ranked teams. And Ok St only played the fourth ranked team because of their conference championship game.

Bama lost to undefeated No. 1 ranked LSU at the time of the loss. Ok St lost to un-ranked Iowa State, who had a record of 5-4 going into the game. Just thought you'd find the data interesting, and sets record straight as to how many "ranked" teams each of these two played.

Doesn't matter too much either way.

This whole BCS argument that's been raging here spurs a very old memory of mine:

When I was a kid, like 6-7 years old, I did not like even the thought of getting shots/immunizations. I would kick and scream and pitch a holy fit. But you know what happened in the end? Big people held me down and I got the shot anyway. Just saying... seems relevant here.

[Smokin Gator]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

Doesn't matter too much either way.

This whole BCS argument that's been raging here spurs a very old memory of mine:

When I was a kid, like 6-7 years old, I did not like even the thought of getting shots/immunizations. I would kick and scream and pitch a holy fit. But you know what happened in the end? Big people held me down and I got the shot anyway. Just saying... seems relevant here.

[OLS]

Originally Posted by SvilleKid

Jeremy..... As we discussed, I went back and did a little research. In the weeks that they played.... Per Coach's poll: Both Bama and Oklahoma State played 4 Top-25 ranked teams each. Alabama played against 20, 12, 12 and # 1 ranked teams. Ok St played a 8, 21, 12 and 11. These were using the Coaches poll placement at the start of each game.

So, AT THE TIME of each game, both Bama and Ok St each played four top 25 ranked teams. And Ok St only played the fourth ranked team because of their conference championship game.

This is a pretty weak argument. This is like saying I am 30 years old because I used to be 30.
Teams like Florida were ranked on expectations near the beginning of the season and beat teams
that everyone else beat soundly up to that point and for the rest of the year. UT couldn't catch
a break and people ranked UF highly on expectations and pity it seemed like until people just realized they
were NOT a standard Florida team. Bama played two good SEC teams and 6 pushover SEC teams and
3 NC pushovers. Vandy played better than they have in decades but still didn't have enough juice
to be called a big threat to Alabama.
This is not me saying bama sucks, LSU is No.1, this is me saying if you are going to stand up and say bama
should be playing LSU and NOT OK St., then at least use some kind of real numbers. And if you are going
to throw in "OK St. only played the 4th team because of the conference championship game, then say that
in front of a mirror first and listen to how it sounds. Bama didn't win it's division OR conference championship.
I'd call the Uof OK win a HELL of a win and a HELL of a factor.

Of course your point could be that they got an extra game to rack up a top 25 win, Bama didn't...
but you PLAY HARD AND TAKE a berth in the conf champ, you don't get handed free stuff
cause 'this is your year'. ---edit--- and I understand your point, but this is a mid-season point,
this shouldn't be allowed at season's end. It's fun to look back and make notes and gather data
but this is hardly useful at this late date. To make my point, the computer rankings for the title
week compilation likely do NOT take any of this into consideration. This is just like the RPI, if
Memphis beats Tennessee in Basketball and UT is ranked #2 pre-season, Memphis has to PRAY
that they keep being awesome or their RPI plummets when they get shown for what they really are.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by SvilleKid

And Ok St only played the fourth ranked team because of their conference championship game.

Don't mean to interrupt your homering, but the Big XII doesn't have a Conference Championship game. Bedlam's been played for over a 100 years now. Carry on.