How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long Post

[T.G]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Like I said, "there is still debate" about how exactly they do so.

You have a further depth of knowledge about the tobacco industry than me. There have been a good number of B&M's that swear by these (walk-ins) and that is where I make the connection. But B&M's also talk smack about a wide variety of other things too. Have you personally used or experimented with these traps?? I would appreciate your insight.

On the point about temperature, I have certain references ( I will need to be on my work comp to find them) that show beetles flying around at 65 deg. However, that may be the exception and not the rule.

Most B&M's also often swear that the patches of fuzzy stuff found on some of their cigars is plume.

Take a step back and think about it Wayne, how does a trap that operates by emitting pheromones (sex scents - this is an animals way of biologically saying "I'm ready to mate") to attract beetles of the opposite sex and then capture them, somehow trigger a temperature based incubation in an egg that has no capability of smell or ability to mate even if it could process a pheromone scent? Doesn't happen. Can't happen. Jr High school level biology classes cover this.

I'd say the B&Ms need to look at how they are operating their HVAC systems instead of pointing the finger at impossibilities that they don't seem to understand. Might as well just blame the guy across the street for painting his building whatever color he chose, that makes about as much sense as their trap theories.

I have a little bit of experience with some of the traps, but I don't feel that is really anything special or even necessary for this conversation, I'm not a pest control expert, or research scientist, or biologist (or whatever the field is called where you specialize in insects) . They are simply jumping to illogical conclusions. One shouldn't need any experience to see the disconnect - simply understanding that the traps are pheromone based, and knowing what pheromones are, and that incubation of an egg is a temperature based process and a rudimentary understanding of the beetle's lifecycle is all anyone should need to see how the debate is invalid and an impossible occurrence. Just basic understanding should be sufficient.

Maybe the part about wings was a bit unclear, that wasn't about what temps they can fly at, I'm sure they can fly at 65F. It's that when they undergo chrysalis and pupate into an adult, if the temps are continuously lower during that period, according to that research, they won't develop wings and therefore can't fly and can't mate.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by T.G

Most B&M's also often swear that the patches of fuzzy stuff found on some of their cigars is plume.

Take a step back and think about it Wayne, how does a trap that operates by emitting pheromones (sex scents - this is an animals way of biologically saying "I'm ready to mate") to attract beetles of the opposite sex and then capture them, somehow trigger a temperature based incubation in an egg that has no capability of smell or ability to mate even if it could process a pheromone scent? Doesn't happen. Can't happen. Jr High school level biology classes cover this.

I'd say the B&Ms need to look at how they are operating their HVAC systems instead of pointing the finger at impossibilities that they don't seem to understand. Might as well just blame the guy across the street for painting his building whatever color he chose, that makes about as much sense as their trap theories.

I have a little bit of experience with some of the traps, but I don't feel that is really anything special or even necessary for this conversation, I'm not a pest control expert, or research scientist, or biologist (or whatever the field is called where you specialize in insects) . They are simply jumping to illogical conclusions. One shouldn't need any experience to see the disconnect - simply understanding that the traps are pheromone based, and knowing what pheromones are, and that incubation of an egg is a temperature based process and a rudimentary understanding of the beetle's lifecycle is all anyone should need to see how the debate is invalid and an impossible occurrence. Just basic understanding should be sufficient.

Maybe the part about wings was a bit unclear, that wasn't about what temps they can fly at, I'm sure they can fly at 65F. It's that when they undergo chrysalis and pupate into an adult, if the temps are continuously lower during that period, according to that research, they won't develop wings and therefore can't fly and can't mate.

Thank you for the write up on the trap debate.

Maybe I wasn't clear either. The temp of 63 (65 was where they raised it and still found them flying) degrees was kept constant. This was from a report that showed beetles may be evolving with temperature resistance.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Thank you for the write up on the trap debate.

Maybe I wasn't clear either. The temp of 63 (65 was where they raised it and still found them flying) degrees was kept constant. This was from a report that showed beetles may be evolving with temperature resistance.

Very interesting and worrisome. If you can find the link to that report, I'd very much appreciate it so I can read the report.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by T.G

Very interesting and worrisome. If you can find the link to that report, I'd very much appreciate it so I can read the report.

Here a link to an article on temperature resistance, however they make you pay for the full article now:

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...ournalCode=afs

It was 13C which is roughly 55.5F. There are a couple other ones out of Japan too, and that is the ones I referenced at 63 and 65 degrees, but I'll have to be at work for the links.