stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

[pnoon]

500!!!

Legendary

Only in your mind. :rolleyes:

[lightning9191]

500!!!

Legendary

Is that what it takes? 500 posts?

[Cigarman]

This one hell of an interesting thread. Well thought out. Local B&M has a $10 cutting fee if you bring your own but if you buy a couple and dont waive your sticks around, they usually tolerate you. Never had a real problem with internet buys. Most smaller stores can't buy the quantity that would make this premise of different qaulity to B&M's versus on line. I have had poorly kept sticks from smaller stores that don't seem to really know how to properly store cigars. One owner told me they move so fast he doesnt worry about storage much. Hmmmm.

I agree that a quality shop makes all the difference. I love going into Holts when I am in Philly. Qaulity stuff, well kept great atmosphere. That being said, when I travel, I always find the local shop and always buy a few sticks.

One point. When I buy on line I always try and let them sit in my coolidor for 30 days. I have been astonished by the difference in letting them settle out. Maybe that is part of the difference you have found.

Great thread.

[SilverFox]

Only in your mind. :rolleyes:

And even in there it is questionable :r :r

[SeanGAR]

500!!!

Legendary

Indeed ... just like the star wars kid.

[Lucky_Hippo]

I may have to take Carly Simon's side on this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7bVD_DkM4

[lightning9191]

I may have to take Carly Simon's side on this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7bVD_DkM4

:r

[Legend]

I am an off the truck guy. Not a big beleiver in aging. But getting the sticks to where they should be would taxke about a month and what Eddie said about the way the big guys store them.
And I did think about it and when the workers at the factory said "internet cigars" no one asked and specified. Perhaps they meant the internet exclusives that are always so nasty and inconsistant. I asked the guys at the lounge and no one made a distinction. So who knows. I'll find out in may though. I'm very stoked for the trip to Nicaragua.

[ahc4353]

Gotta link for your lounge? I for one would love to see where you and the guys hang out.

And when are some of the guys gonna sign up? Would be great to have um!

[Legend]

Gotta link for your lounge? I for one would love to see where you and the guys hang out.

And when are some of the guys gonna sign up? Would be great to have um!

www.zarkacigarlounge.com

Check it out very cool.

[14holestogie]

www.zarkacigarlounge.com

Check it out very cool.

A lounge that's on the internet. Now I'm really confused. :r

[ahc4353]

A lounge that's on the internet. Now I'm really confused. :r

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii201/ahc4353/thLaughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gifhttp://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii201/ahc4353/thLaughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gif

[chippewastud79]

A lounge that's on the internet. Now I'm really confused. :r

Perhaps this means that the cigars they are buying from internet sites and the ones they are purchasing from their internet B+M are in fact the same lesser quality cigars because they save the good stuff for the small B+M's :confused:

[Legend]

Jealousy is an ugly thing boys.

Not that I blame you. The lounge is great. Largest humi on the west coast. Pool table. Poker tables. 5 large flat panels + xtra large projection. Leather couches and recliners. Perfect balance of being very nice but not uppitty and of course the botl.

So again I understand.

[icehog3]

Jealousy is an ugly thing boys.

Not that I blame you. The lounge is great. Largest humi on the west coast. Pool table. Poker tables. 5 large flat panels + xtra large projection. Leather couches and recliners. Perfect balance of being very nice but not uppitty and of course the botl.

So again I understand.

Actually, the lounge looks fantastic, so frankly I am a little jealous.

[Legend]

Actually, the lounge looks fantastic, so frankly I am a little jealous.

and the site hasn't been updated with the bar!!! :al

[Bear]

You're quite fortunate to have that kind of a place available to you. Nothing like that here in the Toronto area, that's for sure...

[landhoney]

Actually, the lounge looks fantastic, so frankly I am a little jealous.

:tpd: Nice place for sure.

[Luciuswand]

This thread has been fun to read. I have a tidbit to throw out as food for thought. My uncle is a fabric purchaser for a dress company in NY. He is responsible for getting the highest quality fabric for the lowest price possible. When necessary, he budges on quality for the price, or budges on price for the quality. His company was recently approached by Wal-Mart. This is a small dress company that makes several thousand dresses a year. Wal-mart, more specifically Sam's Club, asked them to make many many many thousands of dresses just for them. They also said that the dresses had to come in under a certain price. Well for such a large order, the company could afford to make certain accomodations. In order to fill the order on time, and on budget, my uncle had to go for lower quality fabric, in very large quantities. They had to hire new seamstresses, and speed up production across the board to complete the order. The end result was a different quality grade of dress, at a much lower price point, with a happy customer and happy manufacturer. Further down the line, you have shoppers of Sam's Club who get to buy a top notch dress label, for a Sam's Club price.

If a cigar producer that generally makes runs of a few thousand cigars is suddenly asked to make a million, the purchaser and the manufacturer will have to put their heads together and determine how best to accomplish such a feat. Corners can be cut, quality can be lowered. This is ok with both, and its ok with the end of the line customer as well since he gets a lower price.

This does not mean that B&M's are given the high quality stuff, while the internet stores get the crap, it means that the very very large stores will concede to a slightly lower quality to get the inventory they project for sales within the time limit they have set, and at the price the require to attract and satisfy customers while still meeting their bottom line for profit.

There is no conspiracy, its just how it works in some industries. For cigars, I seriously doubt that anyone is trying to dupe anyone by passing of inferior product, but rather some companies, on some orders being willing to take a slightly lower grade product to meet a demand.

Everything postulated above would only apply if the order placed by any particular company exceeded the present capacity of the manufacturer. If the manufacturer was capable of meeting the demand within the customers timeline, then there would be no need for any change. If however, they had to make accomodations to meet the order, that is where you may find a difference. I would guess though, even if such a difference existed, it would take an extremely refined taster to find it, and the primary difference would lie in the construction quality of the cigar since rollers would be asked to work faster to meet a deadline.

[ahc4353]

and the site hasn't been updated with the bar!!! :al

I finally understand your first post. Took a while but now it's clear! :dance:

[dunng]

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l103/jaychrhea/EnergizerBunny.jpg

[icehog3]

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l103/jaychrhea/EnergizerBunny.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/horse3.jpg

[dunng]

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/horse3.jpg

Hmm... I don't remember this scene form Office Space... :D

[md4958]

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/horse3.jpg

Hmm... I don't remember this scene form Office Space... :D

how do you think the horses head got into that guys bed in the Godfather??:r:r

http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/godfather_horse.jpg

[Legend]

Luciuswand you demonstrated the business principle I was trying to convey better than I did. Which is why I'm not a writer I guess. While the parallel may not be exact the principle is the same (hope I used the write principle/principal there. Oh yeah the princiPAL if your friend. Well as long as you weren't bad like me). No conspiracy just business.

[icehog3]

Comparing cigar making and dress making is like comparing......well, cigar making and dress making. I understand the concept, but don't believe it applies in the cigar business. :2



Ah, crap....I just whacked the horse again. :r

[Scottw]

Comparing cigar making and dress making is like comparing......well, cigar making and dress making. I understand the concept, but don't believe it applies in the cigar business. :2



Ah, crap....I just whacked the horse again. :r

:r:r:r freekin' hilarious Tom.

[taltos]

Comparing cigar making and dress making is like comparing......well, cigar making and dress making. I understand the concept, but don't believe it applies in the cigar business. :2



Ah, crap....I just whacked the horse again. :rDoes this mean that all real cigar smokers (as opposed to puffers) wear dresses? This could mean that Peter is one of the few real cigar smokers here.:wo

[Darrell]

:tpd:
youve never apologized before, even when most people DISAGREE with you!

I'm not really sorry, I was just being cordial. :D

[borndead1]

This thread is STILL going? :confused:


I am tempted to turn it political so it gets shut down. :D

[HK3-]

This thread is STILL going? :confused:


I am tempted to turn it political so it gets shut down. :D

:tpd: What would O'bama do? ;)

[Darrell]

:tpd: What would O'bama do? ;)

Their is no apostrophe in Obama, just FYI. :r

[HK3-]

Their is no apostrophe in Obama, just FYI. :r

Sorry. I mean Osama. ;)

[Da Klugs]

If you go back to the original post.... there could be validity in it.

Say for example a cigar Mfg like Torano who makes cigars for others is commissioned to make a "line" for one of the online guys. Figure the price may come into play there. Lesser value materials used because of the price point demanded. Always wondered what the relationship in the wholesale price was ... Labor vs material costs.

Conversely, the concept of "brand" is pretty important to most manufacturers. Their name is on the darn things. To purposely make a product that varies in quality by where you buy it does not make much sense and is hard to believe from a business owners perspective. Different cigar name band etc sure, but not the identical cigar.

Most cigars are not purchased directly from the manufacturers but through distributors. These distributors are typically the ones setting price points and determining physically which cigars go where.

Maybe the OP just prefers the flavors over humidification provides in most B&M's vs cigars from a home humidor. :D

[taltos]

Their is no apostrophe in Obama, just FYI. :rMaybe there should be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xkw8ip43Vk

[borndead1]

Sorry. I mean Osama. ;)



How dare you criticize The Obamessiah!

[landhoney]

I am tempted to turn it political so it gets shut down. :D

Now that is thinking outside the box. :tu

[Legend]

Most cigars are not purchased directly from the manufacturers but through distributors. These distributors are typically the ones setting price points and determining physically which cigars go where.
:D

This is a pretty big assumption. In talking with the owner at my lounge. He does get few from distributors but orders from the manufacturer on most. And I believe(at least it would make sense) that the big internet guys do too.

[WildBlueSooner]

Lets get back to cigars and dresses

http://thumb.visualizeus.com/thumbs/09/01/03/author,unknown,b,w,blonde,cigar,dress,girl,tumblr, vintage-f80767c3cf5d27da718c1bd832833b93_m.jpg

http://69.90.174.247/photos/display_pic_with_logo/84375/84375,1167243911,1.jpg

[Darrell]

This is a pretty big assumption. In talking with the owner at my lounge. He does get few from distributors but orders from the manufacturer on most. And I believe(at least it would make sense) that the big internet guys do too.

I wish I could say you were wrong. However, working at a B&M, we order 90% off our stock straight from Avo, LFD, Tatuaje, Oliva, etc. We have a couple of big distributors we deal with i.e. General and Altadis. However, most of our stuff as I said, comes from the companies themselves.

[Legend]

I wish I could say you were wrong. However, working at a B&M, we order 90% off our stock straight from Avo, LFD, Tatuaje, Oliva, etc. We have a couple of big distributors we deal with i.e. General and Altadis. However, most of our stuff as I said, comes from the companies themselves.

Why would you whish you could say I was wrong?????!!!!!:confused::confused::confused::fu

[Kreth]

I heard Romero's thinking of making a movie about this thread...

[SeanGAR]

It is no surprise that manufacturers play different segments of the market. Most do. The original postulation was that the exact same brand and type of cigar exists in two quality levels.

Say for a second that Laura SeanGAR sells dressed in Saks for $500 and up and in my boutique at place de vendome for $3000 and up. We make a cheaper line for Sam's with our name, Laura SeanGAR. We're just playing market segmentation. This is not at all the same as if we sold the exact name and model dress at 2 quality levels, one in Saks and one in Sam's for different prices. So I see no relevance here whatsoever.

[Bax]

Ah, crap....I just whacked the horse again. :r

This could be the quote of the day! :D

[Legend]

So I see no relevance here whatsoever.

We've already established that you wouldn't regardless. You've already stated that you WILL NOT entertain the possibility of this topic being anything but what you think. Regardless of the fact that neither side can be proven. You have made it clear that you have your stance and there is not possibility of any other. Your participation at this point is redundant why read any more posts.

[chippewastud79]

We've already established that you wouldn't regardless. You've already stated that you WILL NOT entertain the possibility of this topic being anything but what you think. Regardless of the fact that neither side can be proven. You have made it clear that you have your stance and there is not possibility of any other. Your participation at this point is redundant why read any more posts.

:confused: I thought your whole point was that it can be proven and you were asking for back-up to the fact besides your B+M friends opinions. Why else would you be asking us and go so far as to ask the manufacturers themselves?

[Legend]

:confused: I thought your whole point was that it can be proven and you were asking for back-up to the fact besides your B+M friends opinions. Why else would you be asking us and go so far as to ask the manufacturers themselves?

My whole point was for a discussion on it. I've been open as far as what the outcome could be, I had my opinion and supported it, but recognized that it was not a provable premise. Certain other posters preferred to fight instead of discuss. To discuss you need to be open to the fact that your opinion may not be correct or you will just fight. My point on the above post was that Seangar in particular has chosen to fight on this matter and not discuss. If that's all you're gonna do post the opinion and move on.

[WildBlueSooner]

I think we should just take the internet and take the B&Ms and put them in a royal rumble and let em fight it out! I expect a tough clean fight..manufactures and distributors do not interfere!

[Da Klugs]

If you go back to the original post.... there could be validity in it.

Say for example a cigar Mfg like Torano who makes cigars for others is commissioned to make a "line" for one of the on line guys. Figure the price may come into play there. Lesser value materials used because of the price point demanded. Always wondered what the relationship in the wholesale price was ... Labor vs material costs.

Conversely, the concept of "brand" is pretty important to most manufacturers. Their name is on the darn things. To purposely make a product that varies in quality by where you buy it does not make much sense and is hard to believe from a business owners perspective. Different cigar name band etc sure, but not the identical cigar.

Most cigars are not purchased directly from the manufacturers but through distributors. These distributors are typically the ones setting price points and determining physically which cigars go where.

Maybe the OP just prefers the flavors over humidification provides in most B&M's vs cigars from a home humidor. :D

My whole point was for a discussion on it. I've been open as far as what the outcome could be, I had my opinion and supported it, but recognized that it was not a provable premise. Certain other posters preferred to fight instead of discuss. To discuss you need to be open to the fact that your opinion may not be correct or you will just fight. My point on the above post was that Seangar in particular has chosen to fight on this matter and not discuss. If that's all you're gonna do post the opinion and move on.


But it seems you only want to discuss the portions you are comfortable with.

Lets start here:

Say for example a cigar Mfg like Torano who makes cigars for others is commissioned to make a "line" for one of the on line guys. Figure the price may come into play there. Lesser value materials used because of the price point demanded.

Are you willing to accept as fact that cigar manufacturers do make house brand and special release cigars for large customers.. typically the on line guys? They also produce "bundles" for the on line guys to make samplers from. Seen and bought them at Cigars International, Rocky Patel vintage 1992 and 1990 bundles for $ 40. Interesting, you can tell the difference by shape when new as the bundles are very pressed. Boxes on the shelf were over a hundred. Hell many cigar brands have little if any manufacturing capacity and are made to "spec" so to speak. If so, to an extent your original point is made in that there may be different/greater or lessor quality in these cigars. However, they are not identical to the normal lines in representation.

Conversely, the concept of "brand" is pretty important to most manufacturers. Their name is on the darn things. To purposely make a product that varies in quality by where you buy it does not make much sense and is hard to believe from a business owners perspective. Different cigar name band etc sure, but not the identical cigar.

This is where your argument, however interesting, seems to lack substantive motivation for the manufacturer or any proof except for opinion on your part.

Maybe the OP just prefers the flavors over humidification provides in most B&M's vs cigars from a home humidor.

Now to the opinion. :) Seriously and conversely, cigars do not travel well. It may take months for them to acclimate and open up after the traumas of travel. On the flip side, B&M's have a bad rep in terms of stability and correctness of RH. Cigars may be of different ages/provenance and RH storage. If you really want to draw conclusions on potential differences you need to eliminate the potential discrepancies in age, storage conditions and prejudice based upon origin.

Get some cigars at release from both sources. Store them for 3 months in the same place, RH, temperature, etc. Have someone else deband them and put a blank on them A/B, 1/2. Do it for 5 cigars and see what personal observations you can make. Without this commonality the observation on preference is, to me, intriguing but meaningless.

[Legend]

But it seems you only want to discuss the portions you are comfortable with.

Lets start here:

Say for example a cigar Mfg like Torano who makes cigars for others is commissioned to make a "line" for one of the on line guys. Figure the price may come into play there. Lesser value materials used because of the price point demanded.

Are you willing to accept as fact that cigar manufacturers do make house brand and special release cigars for large customers.. typically the on line guys? They also produce "bundles" for the on line guys to make samplers from. Seen and bought them at Cigars International, Rocky Patel vintage 1992 and 1990 bundles for $ 40. Interesting, you can tell the difference by shape when new as the bundles are very pressed. Boxes on the shelf were over a hundred. Hell many cigar brands have little if any manufacturing capacity and are made to "spec" so to speak. If so, to an extent your original point is made in that there may be different/greater or lessor quality in these cigars. However, they are not identical to the normal lines in representation.



If I understand you correctly I agree with you here.



Conversely, the concept of "brand" is pretty important to most manufacturers. Their name is on the darn things. To purposely make a product that varies in quality by where you buy it does not make much sense and is hard to believe from a business owners perspective. Different cigar name band etc sure, but not the identical cigar.



Point taken. My response to this was the tomato argument. While the cigar is the same, same leaves from the same areas, etc. I think we can agree that being a plant there will be some variation within the same leaves and that a professional could tell the difference between great and super great.



This is where your argument, however interesting, seems to lack substantive motivation for the manufacturer or any proof except for opinion on your part.



the motivation I suggested was:
1. a desire to keep the small guy in business
2. The squeaky wheel syndrome, an owner will notice well before an employee.
3. Cost. On those larger orders being selective is not feasible.



Maybe the OP just prefers the flavors over humidification provides in most B&M's vs cigars from a home humidor.

Now to the opinion. :) Seriously and conversely, cigars do not travel well. It may take months for them to acclimate and open up after the traumas of travel. On the flip side, B&M's have a bad rep in terms of stability and correctness of RH. Cigars may be of different ages/provenance and RH storage. If you really want to draw conclusions on potential differences you need to eliminate the potential discrepancies in age, storage conditions and prejudice based upon origin.

Get some cigars at release from both sources. Store them for 3 months in the same place, RH, temperature, etc. Have someone else deband them and put a blank on them A/B, 1/2. Do it for your 5 favorite cigars and see what personal observations you can make. Without this commonality the observation on preference is, to me, intriguing but meaningless.


I agree wholeheartedly that I might be 100% wrong on this. As I stated, it was a phenomenon noticed by us and others I've talked to, supported by some statements from workers in Honduras and Dominican Republic. I think I have addressed everything and not avoided anything, If I have it was subconscious and/or unintentional.

[ahc4353]

Still waiting for some more of the guys from the lounge to comment and support your position. If anyone has and I missed it please excuse me and link me to the posts.

[Smokin Gator]

Can't we all just 100% agree with Legend so this goes away... PLEASE!!!

I will start it out... I 100% believe that B&M smokes are better than big internet guy smokes!!

[WildBlueSooner]

Can't we all just 100% agree with Legend so this goes away... PLEASE!!!

I will start it out... I 100% believe that B&M smokes are better than big internet guy smokes!!

:tpd: I agree...I swear!

[chippewastud79]

Still waiting for some more of the guys from the lounge to comment and support your position. If anyone has and I missed it please excuse me and link me to the posts.

They are professionals Al, we are mere mortals that cannot tell the difference between great and really great because we lack the proper tastebud developmental techniquies to differentiate 100% of the time. :tu

[SeanGAR]

We've already established that you wouldn't regardless. You've already stated that you WILL NOT entertain the possibility of this topic being anything but what you think. Regardless of the fact that neither side can be proven. You have made it clear that you have your stance and there is not possibility of any other. Your participation at this point is redundant why read any more posts.

See, here's the problem. You have presented not a single lucid argument as to why a manufacturer would degrade the quality of a brand name product for one market stream versus the other.

Not one.

When straws are tossed by others (the dress example) you grasp them as if they're gold, without using any thought whatsoever as to whether they make comparative sense at all.

Market segmentation exists in the cigar industry. Everybody knows that. Manufacturers make lower quality "value" lines all the time. We know they are not the same cigars as the higher end stuff. Everybody knows this but this has absolutely nothing do to with your thesis, that manufacturers have 2 quality lines OF THE EXACT SAME CIGAR for different market segments.

Now, I tossed you a bone. I presented explanations for your observations. Doesn't seem to me that you have given them much consideration. On the other hand, this shouldn't have been a surprise, when presented with a maxim used for 700 years, you make a dismissive comment.

YOU have established exactly nothing here, save perhaps that you are interested in getting to China with your shovel. You have presented no argument of value to change my mind.

[Obscenejesster]

Even if this were to be true, couldn't you just let the internet cigars sit in your humidor for a couple months to bring them up to par with what a B&M sells?

[Starscream]

Please! Someone stop the madness! :bh

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Please! Someone stop the madness! :bh


http://localrhythms.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/man-pulling-hair-out-2.jpg

[Whee]

Please! Someone stop the madness! :bh
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/IllinoisHoosier/71GZG7T1H0L__BO2204203200_PIsitb-st.jpg:r

[Legend]

See, here's the problem. You have presented not a single lucid argument as to why a manufacturer would degrade the quality of a brand name product for one market stream versus the other.

Not one.

When straws are tossed by others (the dress example) you grasp them as if they're gold, without using any thought whatsoever as to whether they make comparative sense at all.

Market segmentation exists in the cigar industry. Everybody knows that. Manufacturers make lower quality "value" lines all the time. We know they are not the same cigars as the higher end stuff. Everybody knows this but this has absolutely nothing do to with your thesis, that manufacturers have 2 quality lines OF THE EXACT SAME CIGAR for different market segments.

Now, I tossed you a bone. I presented explanations for your observations. Doesn't seem to me that you have given them much consideration. On the other hand, this shouldn't have been a surprise, when presented with a maxim used for 700 years, you make a dismissive comment.

YOU have established exactly nothing here, save perhaps that you are interested in getting to China with your shovel. You have presented no argument of value to change my mind.

So I was right the only lucid arguement in your mind is yours and you will never see another point of view even as a possibility. Thanks for confirming that.

[Da Klugs]

So I was right the only lucid arguement in your mind is yours and you will never see another point of view even as a possibility. Thanks for confirming that.

:r

Your point of view (opinion) was presented in the first post here. The fact that others don't agree or question the credibility of your assertions has little to do with "seeing another point of view". It's a matter of the assertions lack of traction based upon facts in evidence and our personal experiences. Not an opposing point of view, but the lack of credibility of yours. No one is asserting that internet cigars are better than B&M's. Not agreeing with you is not the same as not being able to see your point of view.

What cigars have you found to be better at the B&M than from the internet? How long did you own them before smoking them and making these judgments? And, did you buy singles on the internet or boxes of them?

[lightning9191]

So I was right the only lucid arguement in your mind is yours and you will never see another point of view even as a possibility. Thanks for confirming that.

Ad hominem argument....not a good way to make your point.

[SeanGAR]

So I was right the only lucid arguement in your mind is yours and you will never see another point of view even as a possibility. Thanks for confirming that.

If you came up with an argument that was convincing of course I could be persuaded to change my mind. I mentioned this already.

What I'm looking for is a series of statements backing up your thesis. Data would be helpful. For example, you suggest a number of times that B&Ms would be better markets for a cigar manufacturer. How so? How many boxes would your B&M buy of a specific cigar .. lets say Rocky Patel Decade torpedo as an example ... compared to CI? Neither you nor I know the prices that Rocky charges CI or B&Ms, but volume discounts are typical in many industries and they are rarely hidden. Why is the B&M a better customer? One would kind of think CI would sell a few more decades than your B&M, no? Wouldn't the manufacturer think their best customer is the one pushing the most boxes .. not necessarily the one with the cushy leather seats and flat screens?

That is a question, answer at leisure.

Remember, if Patel makes 40 bucks a box on 25 boxes your B&M buys, they make 1000 bucks. If they make 5 bucks a box on 3000 boxes CI buys, they make 15 grand. Sales volume often drives profit. Yet, your thesis is that better quality RP Decade torps are going to the B&M because they are better customers. Maybe the total cigar volume sales are wildly in the B&M favor because there are so many of them. Dunno. You have any numbers on sales volumes for big internet retailers v.s combined B&Ms?

[Legend]

The fact is that neither side is provable and I never looked for agreement. Only discussion. I acknowledged the possibility of my opinion being wrong and some of the merits of the other side. Others here gave their opinion and said the other side was impossible. And mocked. The fact remains its unprovable. You don't have to agree but its just arrogantly stupid to require proof or convincing to, at a minimum, acknowledge the possibility.

[ahc4353]

I know a guy that has a humidor he bought from a lounge.

BTW, it has a few really nice cigars in it.

I don't think he got them from the local B&M but I might be wrong.

[pnoon]

I know a guy that has a humidor he bought from a lounge.

BTW, it has a few really nice cigars in it.

I don't think he got them from the local B&M but I might be wrong.

Al - you're only wrong on days ending in the letter Y. ;)

[ahc4353]

Al - you're only wrong on days ending in the letter Y. ;)


Come here you height challenged bundle of love so I can give ya a http://img118.exs.cx/img118/1691/hug8ok.gif

So he does get them from a B&M? :hm

[pnoon]

Come here you height challenged bundle of love so I can give ya a http://img118.exs.cx/img118/1691/hug8ok.gif


:r

[icantbejon]

These posts are always ammusing to read. No one ever takes opposing opinions very well.

[14holestogie]

These posts are always ammusing to read. No one ever takes opposing opinions very well.

I TAKE GREAT EXCEPTION TO THAT REMARK!








:r:r

[Legend]

I don't know specifically why the B&M customer is worthy or considered more valuable, but nick perdomo. Rocky patel. La aurora and don pepin are hosting guys from our lounge at a considerable loss within the last year. Have all visited our lounge at least once in the last year. Eddie Ortega when I spoke with him said "I don't want to just sell to CI, Thompson and famous.". I don't have the numbers, but it would seem that these guys consider the local shops very valuable.
I believe that is a lucid conclusion. Please correct my dimentia if I'm wrong.

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

That may be a lucid conclusion, but you may also have lucid dreams:r
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6lBxtqOIiM&feature=related


I have a feeling this thread will reach 1000 posts easily:r

[icehog3]

Remember, if Patel makes 40 bucks a box on 25 boxes your B&M buys, they make 1000 bucks. If they make 5 bucks a box on 3000 boxes CI buys, they make 15 grand. Sales volume often drives profit.


Oh, sure, Sean, use logic. Real nice.

I don't know specifically why the B&M customer is worthy or considered more valuable, but nick perdomo. Rocky patel. La aurora and don pepin are hosting guys from our lounge at a considerable loss within the last year. Have all visited our lounge at least once in the last year. Eddie Ortega when I spoke with him said "I don't want to just sell to CI, Thompson and famous.". I don't have the numbers, but it would seem that these guys consider the local shops very valuable.
I believe that is a lucid conclusion. Please correct my dimentia if I'm wrong.

Seriously though, what is Ortega going to say when visiting a B&M...."I don't really care about these places, I make the real money from CI and Thompson."? Of course not. And I am sure that the B&Ms are valued by Rocky, Nick, etc, but to the point of forgoing the internet/catalog retailers? Not a chance.

[Noodles]

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=244&pictureid=1629

[SeanGAR]

I believe that is a lucid conclusion. Please correct my dimentia if I'm wrong.

Oh I'm certain that you're right in concluding that the cigar manufacturers consider the B&Ms and their customers to be valuable. And I sometimes go to my local B&M simply to meet with reps and their rollers when they come to town. DPG, NP, CF or RP come to town and cigar smokers get excited and want to meet the legends in the industry. They come to the shop and besides chatting, buy cigars, maybe they try some new ones that they will like and buy. This is just part of the advertising that cigar manufacturers are involved with, as are online web sites.

But I was thinking "more valuable" in the sense of where do the profits originate from ... B&Ms or big internet shops. I'm personally inclined to think the profit split is not vastly unbalanced, if we combine all B&M sales v.s. all internet sales. This would suggest that manufacturers pay attention to and care about both models of sales. Which would argue against one getting better quality than the other.

Another thing that I was thinking about today is that often the first release of a cigar is superior to subsequent releases. Lets look at an example: La Aurora cien anos. I was not as excited about the last box I had (smoked ROTT) compared to ones I had when they were first released (smoked ROTT). My B&M has one of the first release boxes hidden away (you need to do some serious rooting or ask for them to find them). I bought one of those and liked it better than my recent box purchase. Was this due to some quality stratification at the manufacturer - B&M v.s. internet, as you suggest? Was it due to age? Was it because those B&M cigars were the first release? In the latter case, it is likely that the first release cigars are available longer at B&Ms than online - make sense?

Only the shadow knows.

[Legend]

Oh I'm certain that you're right in concluding that the cigar manufacturers consider the B&Ms and their customers to be valuable. And I sometimes go to my local B&M simply to meet with reps and their rollers when they come to town. DPG, NP, CF or RP come to town and cigar smokers get excited and want to meet the legends in the industry. They come to the shop and besides chatting, buy cigars, maybe they try some new ones that they will like and buy. This is just part of the advertising that cigar manufacturers are involved with, as are online web sites.

But I was thinking "more valuable" in the sense of where do the profits originate from ... B&Ms or big internet shops. I'm personally inclined to think. the profit split is. not vastly unbalanced, if we combine all B&M sales v.s. all internet sales. This would suggest that manufacturers pay attention to and care about both models of sales. Which would argue against one getting better quality than the other.

Another thing that I was thinking about today is that often the first release of a cigar is superior to subsequent releases. Lets look at an example: La Aurora cien anos. I was not as excited about the last box I had (smoked ROTT) compared to ones I had when they were first released (smoked ROTT). My B&M has one of the first release boxes hidden away (you need to do some serious rooting or ask for them to find them). I bought one of those and liked it better than my recent box purchase. Was this due to some quality stratification at the manufacturer - B&M v.s. internet, as you suggest? Was it due to age? Was it because those B&M cigars were the first release? In the latter case, it is likely that the first release cigars are available longer at B&Ms than online - make sense?

Only the shadow knows.

Valid point. My only addendum would be that the locals are the shop that are in danger of going out of business and this would make you want to give them more attention or an edge. That is where the more valuable comes in they know there are a ton of guys who only smoke socially and would not order on the net or just don't do the "internet thing".

[Legend]

Oh, sure, Sean, use logic. Real nice.



Seriously though, what is Ortega going to say when visiting a B&M...."I don't really care about these places, I make the real money from CI and Thompson."? Of course not. And I am sure that the B&Ms are valued by Rocky, Nick, etc, but to the point of forgoing the internet/catalog retailers? Not a chance.

Eddies comment was unsolicited. We were discussing business and I explained how mine had started with a very large customer and I had concentrated on building many small customers so that one leaving me would never effect me. To which he responded "of course" and the rest of the quote. He was not catering to a local guy he was just talking business.

[Da Klugs]

I just had a good B&M. Self stirring when complete. :tu

[taltos]

I just had a good B&M. Self stirring when complete. :tuEven better if you have some steel cut oats and thick cut crispy bacon the day before.:tu

[pnoon]

Even better if you have some steel cut oats and thick cut crispy bacon the day before.:tu

Nah. Today will be better.
Beer, corned beef and cabbage.
mmmmmmmmm :pn

[ahc4353]

Nah. Today will be better.
Beer, corned beef and cabbage.
mmmmmmmmm :pn

Local liquor store or warehouse for the beer?

[Stogieboy]

Nah. Today will be better.
Beer, corned beef and cabbage.
mmmmmmmmm :pn

Oh yeah! Nothing like beer and cabbage to get things moving. :ss

[yourchoice]

Oh yeah! Nothing like beer and cabbage to get things moving. :ss

Finally, something we can all agree on. :pn

[taltos]

Nah. Today will be better.
Beer, corned beef and cabbage.
mmmmmmmmm :pnI will be able to smell yours on the east coast. Happy St Patrick's Day my friend.:tu

[pnoon]

I will be able to smell yours on the east coast. Happy St Patrick's Day my friend.:tu

Likewise, Paul. :)

[SilverFox]

Valid point. My only addendum would be that the locals are the shop that are in danger of going out of business and this would make you want to give them more attention or an edge. That is where the more valuable comes in they know there are a ton of guys who only smoke socially and would not order on the net or just don't do the "internet thing".


This is only true if you assume that the departure of that B&M creates a vacuum in the market that is not filled after it is out of business. There is a convenience factor to the guys that smoke socially to buy their sticks at the B&M so that is where they smoke and therefore that is where they buy.

Saying that they would then quit their cigar smoking outright as a result of not having the B&M is likely a stretch for 100% of them. Now of those I am sure many of them also buy online, otherwise this conversation you have had with your fellow lounge members would never have transpired (after all if they all bought there sticks at the B&M there would be no basis of comparison). I would argue that although many of them may reduce their consumption that they would not stop outright.

I don't think the "internet thing" is a fad nor is it an elitist or exclusionary group, e commerce continues to grow which is both good and bad for the consumer depending on your personal profile, for me its great, if I never had to go to another store I would be happy. Assuming I am getting the same product at the same or better price. I think there are many that have varying degrees of usage of e commerce and that is by either choice or necessity depending on each individual situation.

I would suggest that the internet has increased the breadth of cigar sales as those in markets that don't have a B&M (of which there are many ~ think of rural areas alone) now have access to cigars. On the other side of that I would suggest that manufacturers and retailers have increased the geographical scope of their offering. I am willing to bet that Rob at Tabboo would not have near the geographic penetration with his cigars if it where not for the internet.

I fail to see how any commercial application fits this theory that you propose on same products as in this box of CAO Brazilias at the B&M is of better quality than the exact same brand and type bought at Atlantic online. I as the consumer would find this to be an underhanded unethical approach to doing business as in the end it is the consumer that you are lying too and providing an inferior product too under the same branding.

This logic would imply that rental car companies who buy 1000's and 1000's of cars and trucks are getting a slightly inferior product than the mom and pop dealership that only gets 5 to 10 at a time.

It would imply that 1000's of tons of popcorn that an entertainment facility like a stadium buys is inferior to 100's of pounds the local theater buys.

It would imply that the triple A beef I get from my grocery store is of inferior quality compared to the triple A beef in my butcher shop yet it is graded by the same governmental standards.

It would imply that the cigarettes people buy at wal-mart are of lesser quality than the ones that are purchased at the owner owned convenience store on the corner.

It would imply that the 87 octane fuel I put in my truck at the local Esso station is inferior to the fuel that Esso sells to the local owned gas station.

I can go on and on and on.

While I will not dispute that the cigars from your B&M are better in the moment I think that the notion of different quality levels within the same branding and then sold based on that quality to different retailers is ludicrous.

This thread has no empirical evidence and in my opinion denies simple logic and flies in the face of ethical business practices. If it was uncovered that this was a normal practice for a manufacturer that they where knowingly providing an inferior product to the end consumer via one distribution method or another and concealing that fact from the consumer I would suspect that the repercussions could be legal in nature. If nothing else I can personally guarantee I would never purchase anything from that manufacturer if it was uncovered and I would pass that opinion along to whomever would listen.

[ahc4353]

Damn.

[Tio Gato]

I like the chat about corned beef and beer. It reminds me to check next St. Patrick's Day to see if this thread is still alive.:chr

[icehog3]

Eddies comment was unsolicited. We were discussing business and I explained how mine had started with a very large customer and I had concentrated on building many small customers so that one leaving me would never effect me. To which he responded "of course" and the rest of the quote. He was not catering to a local guy he was just talking business.

I wasn't trying to imply that the comment was solicited. I was just stating that any good businessman or politician is going to work the crowd he is among at the time, so of course Ortega is going to say how important B&Ms are to him while he is in a B&M. :)

[Legend]

I wasn't trying to imply that the comment was solicited. I was just stating that any good businessman or politician is going to work the crowd he is among at the time, so of course Ortega is going to say how important B&Ms are to him while he is in a B&M. :)

Wasn't implying, just wanted to give you the context. It was within the realm of a business conversation and not schmoozing.

[Negncic]

:hn http://staythirstymyfriends.com/

[14holestogie]

:hn http://staythirstymyfriends.com/

:r:r:r

[chippewastud79]

:hn http://staythirstymyfriends.com/

Oh no :rolleyes:

[Sr Mike]

We really are in the Whacko Basket.

[SilverFox]

:hn http://staythirstymyfriends.com/

This actually explains a lot

[Legend]

You should see my take of roller blading

[ahc4353]

But there is good news........I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to geico. :D

[Waynegro1]

This is only true if you assume that the departure of that B&M creates a vacuum in the market that is not filled after it is out of business. There is a convenience factor to the guys that smoke socially to buy their sticks at the B&M so that is where they smoke and therefore that is where they buy.

Saying that they would then quit their cigar smoking outright as a result of not having the B&M is likely a stretch for 100% of them. Now of those I am sure many of them also buy online, otherwise this conversation you have had with your fellow lounge members would never have transpired (after all if they all bought there sticks at the B&M there would be no basis of comparison). I would argue that although many of them may reduce their consumption that they would not stop outright.

I don't think the "internet thing" is a fad nor is it an elitist or exclusionary group, e commerce continues to grow which is both good and bad for the consumer depending on your personal profile, for me its great, if I never had to go to another store I would be happy. Assuming I am getting the same product at the same or better price. I think there are many that have varying degrees of usage of e commerce and that is by either choice or necessity depending on each individual situation.

I would suggest that the internet has increased the breadth of cigar sales as those in markets that don't have a B&M (of which there are many ~ think of rural areas alone) now have access to cigars. On the other side of that I would suggest that manufacturers and retailers have increased the geographical scope of their offering. I am willing to bet that Rob at Tabboo would not have near the geographic penetration with his cigars if it where not for the internet.

I fail to see how any commercial application fits this theory that you propose on same products as in this box of CAO Brazilias at the B&M is of better quality than the exact same brand and type bought at Atlantic online. I as the consumer would find this to be an underhanded unethical approach to doing business as in the end it is the consumer that you are lying too and providing an inferior product too under the same branding.

This logic would imply that rental car companies who buy 1000's and 1000's of cars and trucks are getting a slightly inferior product than the mom and pop dealership that only gets 5 to 10 at a time.

It would imply that 1000's of tons of popcorn that an entertainment facility like a stadium buys is inferior to 100's of pounds the local theater buys.

It would imply that the triple A beef I get from my grocery store is of inferior quality compared to the triple A beef in my butcher shop yet it is graded by the same governmental standards.

It would imply that the cigarettes people buy at wal-mart are of lesser quality than the ones that are purchased at the owner owned convenience store on the corner.

It would imply that the 87 octane fuel I put in my truck at the local Esso station is inferior to the fuel that Esso sells to the local owned gas station.

I can go on and on and on.

While I will not dispute that the cigars from your B&M are better in the moment I think that the notion of different quality levels within the same branding and then sold based on that quality to different retailers is ludicrous.

This thread has no empirical evidence and in my opinion denies simple logic and flies in the face of ethical business practices. If it was uncovered that this was a normal practice for a manufacturer that they where knowingly providing an inferior product to the end consumer via one distribution method or another and concealing that fact from the consumer I would suspect that the repercussions could be legal in nature. If nothing else I can personally guarantee I would never purchase anything from that manufacturer if it was uncovered and I would pass that opinion along to whomever would listen.


:tpd:
Who says the ol' SilverFox is retired?? :tu

[Legend]

:hn http://staythirstymyfriends.com/

I can't believe you all didn't recognize this a long time ago.

the tag line, stay lit, my friends!?!?

[Starscream]

If 500 was Legendary, what does 600 make? :rolleyes:

[14holestogie]

If 500 was Legendary, what does 600 make? :rolleyes:

Uh, overkill?

[Legend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfKTDMEoC88

[Stogieboy]

So, do beer and cabbage farts released at the local B&M smell the same as those released while surfing the web? :chr:pn Inquiring minds want to know.

[JKim]

So, do beer and cabbage farts released at the local B&M smell the same as those released while surfing the web? :chr:pn Inquiring minds want to know.

They are less obtrusive because everyone knows that the rich tobacco scents wafting off B&M humidors into lounges mask way better than any Internet Surfing Station, unless you've got one of those Glade-plug-ins running off your computer power supply.

[JKim]

So, do beer and cabbage farts released at the local B&M smell the same as those released while surfing the web? :chr:pn Inquiring minds want to know.

didn't take into consideration.... surfing the web on a mobile device while cutting one loose at the B&M. It would probably smell/taste the same then

[chippewastud79]

Frankly, all this "stay thirsty my friends" and "Most interesting man in the world" stuff has made my head hurt, but I guess it reaffirms what most people may have already thought. :bh

[Negncic]

I think I am going to TAPOUT of this thread. :r

[SilverFox]

Frankly, all this "stay thirsty my friends" and "Most interesting man in the world" stuff has made my head hurt, but I guess it reaffirms what most people may have already thought. :bh
:tpd: in the extreme

[Legend]

I guess it reaffirms what most people may have already thought. :bh

what's that?

[Col. Kurtz]

seriously?

[Stogieboy]

seriously?

Really!

[Legend]

seriously?

If that is directed at me then yes confused

[WildBlueSooner]

Why I do keep coming here? I keep telling myself I will never go back...but here I am back again...wondering why! Why damnit? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[bobarian]

I like cake.:wo:hf

[WildBlueSooner]

I like cake.:wo:hf

Only cake from the bakery though, not the grocery store where they get the leftover dough! :r

[14holestogie]

I like cake.:wo:hf

...from the corner bakery, not SaraLee.com.

[WildBlueSooner]

...from the corner bakery, not SaraLee.com.

Beat you to it! Point for me ;)

[14holestogie]

Dammit!

[WildBlueSooner]

Dammit!

You win some and you lose some! ;)

[14holestogie]

So nobody's gonna answer legend's latest query?

I would, but Mama always taught me if I can't say something good about someone, then don't say anything. I'm done now. :)

[SeanGAR]

So nobody's gonna answer legend's latest query?

I mean, it's already been said, no?

This thread has no empirical evidence and in my opinion denies simple logic and flies in the face of ethical business practices.

[Legend]

I mean, it's already been said, no?

Only when the difference is taken to the extreme which you consistantly do even though I've repeatedly let you know thats not what I'm saying.

You see when you lose that exaggeration, as I noted before, you have nothing to stand on. I offered the challenge earlier to come lose the exaggeration and come up with something and no one responded.

Bottom line neither side has any empirical evidence. Even the example you gave was made up. you arbitrarily chose 25 boxes to the local and 3000 to the the big guy. But ignored the fact that there are thousands of little guys and 3-5 big ones. Make up stats and ignore facts then call my argument nonsensical???!?? Pot-Kettle

[DPD6030]

Checkin in...nothing useful to type so I'm leaving. :D

[Smokin Gator]

Only when the difference is taken to the extreme which you consistantly do even though I've repeatedly let you know thats not what I'm saying.

You see when you lose that exaggeration, as I noted before, you have nothing to stand on. I offered the challenge earlier to come lose the exaggeration and come up with something and no one responded.

Bottom line neither side has any empirical evidence. Even the example you gave was made up. you arbitrarily chose 25 boxes to the local and 3000 to the the big guy. But ignored the fact that there are thousands of little guys and 3-5 big ones. Make up stats and ignore facts then call my argument nonsensical???!?? Pot-Kettle

Sean... leave it alone... I am BEGGING you to leave it alone:bh:bh:bh

[ahc4353]

I can't believe I'm #3 on the leader board of this nightmare. :hm

Total Posts: 623
User Name Posts
Legend 89
icehog3 40
ahc4353 33
SeanGAR 30
Hardcz 25
andysutherland 24
WildBlueSooner 19
ggainey 19
md4958 18
pnoon 17
chippewastud79 14
14holestogie 14
MajorCaptSilly 14
SilverFox 10
Kreth 10
taltos 9
Big Vito 9
thebiglebowski 8
gnukfu 8
illinoishoosier 7
TheRiddick 7
Raralith 7
DPD6030 7
Stogieboy 7
Col. Kurtz 6
Da Klugs 6
shvictor 6
rizzle 5
yourchoice 5
dunng 5
Smokin Gator 5
lightning9191 5
Scottw 4
tedrodgerscpa 4
montecristo#2 4
mahtofire 4
Sr Mike 4
landhoney 3
replicant_argent 3
Darrell 3
chenvt 3
mithrilG60 3
knliebe 3
Yazzie 3
JaKaacH 3
JKim 3
alley00p 3
Totemic 2
Stick 2
bobarian 2
Cigarcop 2
SmokeyJoe 2
gvarsity 2
BlackIrish 2
jledou 2
Negncic 2
Lucky_Hippo 2
HK3- 2
borndead1 2
ca21455 2
Java 2
shilala 2
macpappy 2
D_A 2
ChicagoWhiteSox 2
gwc4sc 2
pmp 2
Bruzee 2
Addiction 2
Waynegro1 2
nozero 2
MedicCook 1
Les Nessman 1
Volusianator 1
Sancho 1
Ahbroody 1
TomHagen 1
jkim05 1
Gonesledn 1
Footbag 1
Bax 1
marge796 1
Tio Gato 1
stitch 1
bonggoy 1
Cyanide 1
steve 1
NCRadioMan 1
Chemyst 1
Taboo Cigars 1
Commander Quan 1
ScottishSmoker 1
tunes 1
Obscenejesster 1
Homebrewer 1
vudu9 1
boonedoggle 1
potlimit 1
Luciuswand 1
kiokicigars 1
Bear 1
CoventryCat86 1
neoflex 1
Cigarman 1
Texan in Mexico 1
icantbejon 1
Dgar 1
mikeyj23 1

[Smokin Gator]

I say the top five should be horse whipped... or at least made to nub a Cremosa!!

[rizzle]

I can't believe I'm #3 on the leader board of this nightmare. :hm...


How did you know this? Please tell me you counted each and every post with user names and hash marks.

http://laura.moncur.org/photos/tally.jpg

[SeanGAR]

Sean... leave it alone... I am BEGGING you to leave it alone:bh:bh:bh

:r OK then. But only because a G8R asked.

[Stogieboy]

:r OK then. But only because a G8R asked.

Thank you, thank you and thank you!

[landhoney]

I don't undertand what the issue is here, can somone recount all the arguments put forth by both sides in a clear and concise manner?

[landhoney]

:r

[Stogieboy]

I don't undertand what the issue is here, can somone recount all the arguments put forth by both sides in a clear and concise manner?

:pn I fart in your general direction.

[Yazzie]

I like Legend's other thread better when he talks about getting hammered and smoking yard Gars.....:r:r:r

[Legend]

:r OK then. But only because a G8R asked.

sure , He'll leave it alone .....NOW!! :wo:tu:r:D

[icehog3]

sure , He'll leave it alone .....NOW!! :wo:tu:r:D

You too? ;)

[WildBlueSooner]

I say the top five should be horse whipped... or at least made to nub a Cremosa!!

whew....barely safe! :r

[chippewastud79]

whew....barely safe! :r

Damn, I didn't even make it into the top 10 :bh

[Starscream]

You too? ;)

If only...

























































































































please?:)

[rizzle]

Damn, I didn't even make it into the top 10 :bh

Its not locked yet. There's still hope for ya:tu

[chippewastud79]

Its not locked yet. There's still hope for ya:tu

Good point :D

Stay Classy Asylum :tu

[Legend]

Good point :D

Stay Classy Asylum :tu

Well I will post an update in May after my trip to Nicaragua!! at a minimum.

[chippewastud79]

Well I will post an update in May after my trip to Nicaragua!! at a minimum.

Oh yes, how could we forget Don Pepin's input on your facts? :rolleyes:

[icehog3]

Well I will post an update in May after my trip to Nicaragua!! at a minimum.

Should I close this until May? ;)

[landhoney]

Well I will post an update in May after my trip to Nicaragua!! at a minimum.

Please start a new thread: "stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet II the wrath of kahn"

[icehog3]

Please start a new thread: "stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet the wrath of kahn"

Stirring the pot II, The Revenge....this time, it's personal. :r

[Jbailey]

"stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet II Electric Boogaloo"
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7113/breakin2.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=breakin2.jpg)

[Legend]

"stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet II Electric Boogaloo"
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7113/breakin2.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=breakin2.jpg)

that's funny, I'll go with that one if they close it!!!!:r:r:r

[Da Klugs]

My mom says she loves my sisters equally as much as she does me. They tend to communicate with her in person and I'm more of an email kind of guy. I think the quality of her love is dissipated through the internet. Not as rich or deep as that which my sisters receive. I have proof.

In fact, my dad has mentioned that she will occasionally roll her eyes while on the phone with me which is proof that the "quality and sincerity" of her love is less in this format and to me than my sisters. Sometimes she even repeats herself from previous conversations, proving that the attempt at quality is way down in this format. In addition my sisters have commented that my calling when they were with my mom resulted in only a partial communication of both feeling and content that they received by being there in person. A less rich, more flat experience without the depth and nuance that they experience.

Internet cigars? Who cares! We're talking about a mothers love here. Phuck the internet! I'm moving back home.

[Smokin Gator]

^^^:r:r:r

[Raralith]

Wow, I can't believe this thing is still going. And this whole time I thought the internet stands still when my connection goes down :(

[rack04]

Should I close this

Yes. :D

[markem]

The vstrommark hopes that The da Klugs gets over his Oedipus complex

[thebiglebowski]

i posted 8 fncking times in this mess???

[lightning9191]

Do you think this conversation would have gone on this long if it wasn't on the internet?:confused:

[Waynegro1]

i posted 8 fncking times in this mess???

Don Pepin replying to Legend's inqueries:

"Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of that crazy 'B&M vs Internet' chit with me. I'll....."

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Your avatar made me do it.

[Starscream]

Yes. :D

:tpd:

[Stogieboy]

Don Pepin replying to Legend's inqueries:

"Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of that crazy 'B&M vs Internet' chit with me. I'll....."

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Your avatar made me do it.

I wonder if there is any difference between the internet Pepin impersonation and the real Pepin at the B&M. :ss

[chippewastud79]

I wonder if there is any difference between the internet Pepin impersonation and the real Pepin at the B&M. :ss

Hard to be "personal guests" of the internet Pepin. ;)

[Scottw]

I wonder if there is any difference between the internet Pepin impersonation and the real Pepin at the B&M. :ss

"Internet Pepin" has no accent.

[lightning9191]

"Internet Pepin" has no accent.

This keeps getting more bizarre.

[HK3-]

:2 + :2 = :2:2

[yourchoice]

"Internet Pepin" has no accent.

More like Internet Pepin speaks English.




Why do I keep posting in this thread?

[AD720]

Don Pepin replying to Legend's inqueries:

"Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of that crazy 'B&M vs Internet' chit with me. I'll....."

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Your avatar made me do it.

:r:r

http://thefeed.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/the_big_lebowski_jesus.jpg

[Scottw]

More like Internet Pepin speaks English.




Why do I keep posting in this thread?


Who knows?

[Whee]

I bought this on the internet. Do you think they be alittle more fresh from a B&M?:r

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/IllinoisHoosier/gracie002.jpg








Disclaimer: No children were harmed during the taking of this photo.:tu

[Legend]

Don Pepin replying to Legend's inqueries:

"Let me tell you something, pendejo. You pull any of that crazy 'B&M vs Internet' chit with me. I'll....."

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Your avatar made me do it.

Too funny!

[Legend]

I was just post 666. Ok I'm creeped out.

[icehog3]

I was just post 666. Ok I'm creeped out.

At last, The Plan is coming to fruition.....

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/the-omen-damien-crosses.jpg

[Whee]

At last, The Plan is coming to fruition.....

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/the-omen-damien-crosses.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40

[WildBlueSooner]

Bet I am gonna get it for this...bump :r:r:dance::fu

[chippewastud79]

Bet I am gonna get it for this...bump :r:r:dance::fu

What the hell are you doing? We are all meant to be in suspense until "the Legend" gets back from his trip to the Dominican as the personal guest of Don Pepin. :bh

[icehog3]

What the hell are you doing? We are all meant to be in suspense until "the Legend" gets back from his trip to the Dominican as the personal guest of Don Pepin. :bh

And then maybe we can put this thread to pasture without any protest.

[HK3-]

Dear Barbara this is still going! :r

Who woke this thread from the dead?

[poriggity]

I love the smokes I get from my local shop, mostly because I am smoking those with friends. I love the smokes that I get off the internet, because I know I got a great deal on them. IMHO, either way can't be beat, as long as you are getting them from reputable sources.

[SeanGAR]

And then maybe we can put this thread to pasture without any protest.

No, no, no. I'm not quite done yet. I'm resting. Beautiful plumage.

[pnoon]

No, no, no. I'm not quite done yet. I'm resting. Beautiful plumage.

That parrot wouldn't vooooom if you put 9 million volts thru it. :D

[icehog3]

No, no, no. I'm not quite done yet. I'm resting. Beautiful plumage.

;) :r

[taltos]

No, no, no. I'm not quite done yet. I'm resting. Beautiful plumage.Are you nailed to your perch?:)

[MajorCaptSilly]

This is an EX-PARROT!

MCS

[replicant_argent]

Norwegian Blues stun easily, major.

[taltos]

The Colonel says that all this silliness must stop.:D

[FriskyDingo]

I got a slug.

does it talk?

not really.

WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?

no, I guess not.

Well.

D'you.... d'you want to come back to my place?

Yeah, all right, sure.


:r

[ahc4353]

What the hell are you doing? We are all meant to be in suspense until "the Legend" gets back from his trip to the Dominican as the personal guest of Don Pepin. :bh

Please don't put the word "The" in front of legends name. We all know there is only one true "The Legend" and he lives in Canada.

Thank you for your support in this matter.

[FriskyDingo]

Please don't put the word "The" in front of legends name. We all know there is only one true "The Legend" and he lives in Canada.

Thank you for your support in this matter.

Bryan Adams?? :D

[chippewastud79]

Bryan Adams?? :D

Celine Dion?? :D

[icehog3]

Bryan Adams?? :D

Celine Dion?? :D

Toe Blake? Eddie Shore? :D

[md4958]

Bryan Adams?? :D

Celine Dion?? :D

Toe Blake? Eddie Shore? :D

Carrot Top???
http://www.makemeheal.com/news/images/carrot-top-plastic-surgery-body.jpg

[icehog3]

The Colonel says that all this silliness must stop.:D

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/colonel.jpg

[md4958]

The Colonel was a pimp!!!
http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/colonel-sanders-with-cheerleaders-s.jpg

[MajorCaptSilly]

Randy Bachman?

http://canadianmusicians.info/Randy_Bachman.jpg

MCS

[rizzle]

Sure.

[icehog3]

Randy Bachman?

http://canadianmusicians.info/Randy_Bachman.jpg

MCS

I prefer the internet Randy Bachman, but the local Burton Cummings. Quite the pickle.

[landhoney]

I prefer the internet Randy Bachman, but the local Burton Cummings. Quite the pickle.

Easy, watch a live video feed* of the concert on you iPhone at the actual concert.




* - Beware, there may be some delay :r

[chippewastud79]

The Bare Naked Ladies??? :confused:

[Mr Edmundo]

Monty Hall?

[icehog3]

The Bare Naked Ladies??? :confused:

Where??!! :D

[chippewastud79]

Where??!! :D

There!

http://vmcstores.com/Websites/Global/exclusives/BNL(2).jpg

[Mr Edmundo]

Dudley Do-right?

[markem]

Dudley Do-right?

Nell!

[Legend]

700 baby.

Dats right baby.

[chippewastud79]

700 baby.

Dats right baby.

Oh no, not again :bh

[14holestogie]

We (and by we, I mean our hitman) missed you, legend. ;)

[macpappy]

700 baby.

Dats right baby.

I holding out for 999.

[Legend]

We (and by we, I mean our hitman) missed you, legend. ;)

I'm big but agile. So I dodge well.

[SeanGAR]

I'm big but agile. So I dodge well.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/okeefes/Legend.jpg

[Legend]

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/okeefes/Legend.jpg

This.... Would be dodging poorly. Not well.

(after reading this I know seangar will be smacking himself in the head a la Chris Farley yelling 'stupid stupid')

[SeanGAR]

This.... Would be dodging poorly. Not well.

(after reading this I know seangar will be smacking himself in the head a la Chris Farley yelling 'stupid stupid')

Farley was funny
Unlike some other people
Who are not at all

[icehog3]

Farley was funny
Unlike some other people
Who are not at all

That's a Haiku!! :D

[14holestogie]

That's a Haiku!! :D



...or a mild Farku. :)

[SeanGAR]

That's a Haiku!! :D

You know, Tom, it is
Because I'm in a Haiku mode
Now that its spring here

I'm sure Legend, too
When he's not dodging the balls
Is writing Haiku

[Whee]

You know, Tom, it is
Because I'm in a Haiku mode
Now that its spring here

I'm sure Legend, too
When he's not dodging the balls
Is writing Haiku


Now that there's funny, I don;t care who you are:r:r

[icehog3]

I'm sure Legend, too
When he's not dodging the balls
Is writing Haiku

Dodging poorly, eh? :r

[ahc4353]

Not that my vote means anything but if it did I would vote to move this to banter. :tu

Now I have to be reminded of this thread with that damn Dos Equis commercial. Damnit!

[Legend]

You know, Tom, it is
Because I'm in a Haiku mode
Now that its spring here

I'm sure Legend, too
When he's not dodging the balls
Is writing Haiku

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm somewhat of a mystery. Some might even say "terribly mysterious" along with being very interesting. (oo oo a double reference who will get it).

And we can't move this to banter. Because then I would have to start a whole new thread when I get back from Nicaragua.

[pnoon]

And we can't move this to banter. Because then I would have to start a whole new thread when I get back from Nicaragua.
We certainly can.



But we won't.




Only because Al wants it there. :D
Not that my vote means anything but if it did I would vote to move this to banter. :tu

[Jbailey]

Legend is as elusive as Robert Denby!

[SeanGAR]

And we can't move this to banter. Because then I would have to start a whole new thread when I get back from Nicaragua.

Really? I was hoping you'd post the quote from DPG here in this thread:

"Por supuesto nosotros no hacemos tabacos para el internet o vendedores de B&M..Para que cono hariamos eso? Para ahorrar un centavo? Jesus, es suficientemente dificil hacer tabacos para sobrevivir y mantenernos por su venta tal cual..no necesitamos joder a los vendedores por internet.. donde cono sacastes esa idea?"

[Legend]

Really? I was hoping you'd post the quote from DPG here in this thread:

"Por supuesto nosotros no hacemos tabacos para el internet o vendedores de B&M..Para que cono hariamos eso? Para ahorrar un centavo? Jesus, es suficientemente dificil hacer tabacos para sobrevivir y mantenernos por su venta tal cual..no necesitamos joder a los vendedores por internet.. donde cono sacastes esa idea?"

Big assumption that is hard to separate. Bigger that is already hard to make them. But you seem to like assumption stated as fact when its tour opinion. Yes I understand Spanish. No I'm not rude enough to post that way for others to be confused.

[md4958]

No I'm not rude enough to post that way for others to be confused.

I dont consider that rude... I consider it a direct quote. Google language will take care of any translation :tu

oh, and for the google language impared:
"Of course we do not do the internet tobacco vendors or B & M.. To know that would do that? To save a penny? Jesus, it's difficult enough to survive and to keep tobacco for sale as is .. no need to (phuck) the sellers internet .. sacastes know where this idea"

I think this gives you the general idea of what the Don is saying :D

[icehog3]

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm somewhat of a mystery. Some might even say "terribly mysterious" along with being very interesting.

Not to mention excruciatingly humble. ;)

[markem]

Not to mention excruciatingly humble. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itb6uNL_3ag

[icehog3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itb6uNL_3ag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40

[Whee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40


:r:r:r

[pnoon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7bVD_DkM4&feature=related

[icehog3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7bVD_DkM4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40

[Whee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uaw2CdjU3c&feature=related

[Whee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsAiS9vNid0&feature=related

[icehog3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsAiS9vNid0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaouy4QT9vE&feature=related

[Whee]

oh yeah...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEsyeyM0AMI&feature=related:fu

[yourchoice]

these last few youtubes crack me up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPMaXuDVwSI

[ahc4353]

Not to mention excruciatingly humble. ;)

:r Could be best post of this mess. :r

[thebiglebowski]

jesus, i just realized his picture and sig line are from a freaking beer commercial???

[ahc4353]

jesus, i just realized his picture and sig line are from a freaking beer commercial???

I will never be able to drink another DE again.

Damnit! :fl

[kaisersozei]

I'll see your McCain oh yeah...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEsyeyM0AMI&feature=related:fu


and raise you an Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtr_f1zZbTo

(the MJ remix cracked me up :r:r)

[Legend]

jesus, i just realized his picture and sig line are from a freaking beer commercial???

I can't believe it took anyone this long to realize that

[Legend]

And no one picked up on the "terribly mysterious".

That's his power? He's mysterious.

Well... Terribly mysterious.

[Mr Edmundo]

And no one picked up on the "terribly mysterious".

That's his power? He's mysterious.

Well... Terribly mysterious.

God??

[thebiglebowski]

I can't believe it took anyone this long to realize that

i just saw the commercial, for what i believe is the first time, last night...

[SeanGAR]

Big assumption that is hard to separate. Bigger that is already hard to make them. But you seem to like assumption stated as fact when its tour opinion. Yes I understand Spanish. No I'm not rude enough to post that way for others to be confused.

Since when is posting something in Spanish rude?

Starting an idiotic thread to stir the pot ... now that would be rude. I'm not pointing fingers, that would be rude, I'm just saying.

[Legend]

Since when is posting something in Spanish rude?

Starting an idiotic thread to stir the pot ... now that would be rude. I'm not pointing fingers, that would be rude, I'm just saying.

Its like poking a bear with a stick. You have to be right and you have to defend yourself. Its guaranteed. Like having a marionette all I have to do is pull the string. I sure hope you're under 25. Most grow out of it by then.

[Stogieboy]

:bh:fu2:bh

[SeanGAR]

Its like poking a bear with a stick. You have to be right and you have to defend yourself. Its guaranteed. Like having a marionette all I have to do is pull the string. I sure hope you're under 25. Most grow out of it by then.

Funny how well that shoe fits you ROFL

[md4958]

Its like poking a bear with a stick. You have to be right and you have to defend yourself. Its guaranteed. Like having a marionette all I have to do is pull the string. I sure hope you're under 25. Most grow out of it by then.

Wingate? Is that you???

[taltos]

Wingate? Is that you???Wingate had more to offer.

[Legend]

Funny how well that shoe fits you ROFL

I know you are but what am I ?

Really?

Really?

Ok.

[Encore Souris]

Its like poking a bear with a stick. You have to be right and you have to defend yourself. Its guaranteed. Like having a marionette all I have to do is pull the string. I sure hope you're under 25. Most grow out of it by then.

I know you are but what am I ?

Really?

Really?

Ok.

Brilliant riposte, Sir!

The propinquity between your iterative catechism, "Really?", and your Descartian "what am I" clearly elevates you to the uppermost level of intellectual scribblers. I would be astonished if you did not hold dual Ph.D.s in Philosophy and English.

Bravo, I say, bravo.

Your philanthropic entertainment of the unwashed masses says much about your character. Some might consider your posts deficient, dazed, doltish and delirious, but not I, sir.

I read between your meaningless, moronic and mindless posts, I sidestep your senseless, simpleminded, sluggish, stolid and stupefied sentences, and realize that we are the presence of a genius.

We are blessed to have one such as you here

:tu

[taltos]

Brilliant riposte, Sir!

The propinquity between your iterative catechism, "Really?", and your Descartian "what am I" clearly elevates you to the uppermost level of intellectual scribblers. I would be astonished if you did not hold dual Ph.D.s in Philosophy and English.

Bravo, I say, bravo.

Your philanthropic entertainment of the unwashed masses says much about your character. Some might consider your posts deficient, dazed, doltish and delirious, but not I, sir.

I read between your meaningless, moronic and mindless posts, I sidestep your senseless, simpleminded, sluggish, stolid and stupefied sentences, and realize that we are the presence of a genius.

We are blessed to have one such as you here

:tuThis is a Hall of Fame worthy post. Well done sir!:tu

[14holestogie]

I never realized there was so many ways to say d*****bag.

You live, you learn (unless you already know everything).

:tu

[Smokin Gator]

Brilliant riposte, Sir!

The propinquity between your iterative catechism, "Really?", and your Descartian "what am I" clearly elevates you to the uppermost level of intellectual scribblers. I would be astonished if you did not hold dual Ph.D.s in Philosophy and English.

Bravo, I say, bravo.

Your philanthropic entertainment of the unwashed masses says much about your character. Some might consider your posts deficient, dazed, doltish and delirious, but not I, sir.

I read between your meaningless, moronic and mindless posts, I sidestep your senseless, simpleminded, sluggish, stolid and stupefied sentences, and realize that we are the presence of a genius.

We are blessed to have one such as you here

:tu

I never realized there was so many ways to say d*****bag.

:r:r:r

[md4958]

Brilliant riposte, Sir!

The propinquity between your iterative catechism, "Really?", and your Descartian "what am I" clearly elevates you to the uppermost level of intellectual scribblers. I would be astonished if you did not hold dual Ph.D.s in Philosophy and English.

Bravo, I say, bravo.

Your philanthropic entertainment of the unwashed masses says much about your character. Some might consider your posts deficient, dazed, doltish and delirious, but not I, sir.

I read between your meaningless, moronic and mindless posts, I sidestep your senseless, simpleminded, sluggish, stolid and stupefied sentences, and realize that we are the presence of a genius.

We are blessed to have one such as you here

:tu

reputation given!