Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum  

Go Back   Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum > Non Cigar Specialty Forums > Pipe Forum > Pipe Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-28-2009, 09:16 PM   #1
Big D KC
Still Watching My Back
 
Big D KC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: KCMO
Posts: 88
Trading: (3)
Big D KC is on a distinguished road
Default Need some advice on long term aging!

Alright, I am gettin ready to do some MAJOR stocking up of bulk tobacco's for short & long term aging. I'm looking at almost 10 pounds for this order!! (thank you uncle sam!)I have a couple of questions for those of you guys that have been around the block in the pipe world in this regard.

First off is this; my initial thinking is I would be better off breaking it all down to store this stuff ALL in the smaller 1/2 pint wide mouth Kerr jars. My reasoning is I could just grab one to open as I go along to smoke, allowing the rest to continue aging without me disrupting its environment everytime I want to move some to a smoking container. At first this seems a no brainer but I also see a couple downsides to this:

First being by my simple math I'm guessing I would need atleast 6 dozen of the 1/2 pint jars! Probably more like 7 dozen. Thats alot of damn jars! I am thinking aprox 2 oz tobacco per jar of what comes in a non-flake or pressed tobacco, and probably a bit more for what comes in flake. Some of the order will only be 2 or 4 oz "samples" so I will cram those fuller since they will be in the "to smoke" cabinet. What comes with that is mostly the storage space, but secondly cost for them all! I have decent storage at the moment, but I am wondering from those with experience if the hassle of maintaining this many jars over the long term time frame is or would be worth the extra effort? Or should I just condense it all into full pint jars and be done with it?

I would like to see some of it make it to 5, 8, maybe even 10 years and beyond if possible! But I also plan to smoke each different blend as I go along as well.

My second question is jar suppliers. Where do you guys that store your baccy in canning jars get them? I've so far bought 2 dozen at a local grocery store as thats the only place I could find them locally, but they were about $15 a case, and I know for a fact they don't have another 7 cases of them! I haven't found any good online sources with much of a discount yet. Any ideas besides hunting locally and paying the price?

And lastly, for those of you who have went down this path of long term storage, what advice or tips & hints would you offer someone gettin ready to take this approach??

Thanks for your time if you read through all this, and thanks in advance for any help or advice you can offer!!
__________________
On the Eastern side of KC? Join our pipe club!!
http://www.bfekc.com
Big D KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 09:37 PM   #2
Nick
Feeling at Home
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
First Name: That's confidential
Location: Cali
Posts: 623
Trading: (4)
Nick is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

I got my mason jars at Smart and Final and I think they were about 12 bucks a case. I have yet to find a way to seal them air tight with out using heat. I read a story by Pease that talked about how his friend had aged a tin of Odyssey in a Mason jar that he boiled out first and loaded with baccy while it was still hot. The hot mason jar essentially baked the tobacco again leaving it nothing like the same blend that had been aged for the same amount of time. Good luck with this and I wait with bated breath like you to find the answer.
__________________
"Kid Pipe" -Thanks Moo
"A wise woman never separates a man from his pipe", Laurette Taylor
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 09:56 PM   #3
Savor the Stick
~Loves the Lord~
 
Savor the Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Kevin, or just K
Location: Southern Calfornia
Posts: 1,937
Trading: (67)
Partagas Navy (Served With Honor)
Savor the Stick has disabled reputation
Post Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Mason jars can be used without heating the contents up.

you will need a vacuum sealer and a jar attachment.


Do a search for this you'll come up with some good hits.

__________________
Pastor K Please Support the Troops
Savor the Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 10:01 PM   #4
uncballzer
aka "Silky"
 
uncballzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Richard
Location: Casar, NC
Posts: 101
Trading: (2)
uncballzer is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

If you can, I'd get a few larger mason jars for your bigger purchases; a little air exchange won't hurt much, but you can always reseal it (just get enough out for the time being so you won't have to go into it so often); I'd check walmart or a dollar store for the jars.
uncballzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 09:19 AM   #5
drevim
On the inside looking out
 
drevim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Ian
Location: In the Asylum
Posts: 290
Trading: (6)
Partagas
drevim has disabled reputation
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

When I went on a jar hunt recently. The only luck I had was at Big Lots. Seems the season is a factor (your area may vary). Like the idea of using the Foodsaver jar sealer, but I haven't been in the game long enough to offer long term results.
__________________
"We're the fragile elite, they dragged off the street.
I guess they just couldn't take us no more...We're all crazy"
drevim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 09:51 AM   #6
Big D KC
Still Watching My Back
 
Big D KC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: KCMO
Posts: 88
Trading: (3)
Big D KC is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Thanks for the tips so far!

I re-read through the aging and cellering FAQ online again and think I have come to the conclusion of doing it how I initially planned. I'm going to go for the lots of smaller jars route. I think for me this is the best idea as far as my smoking pace and how I feel about opening and closing the jars overtime and how that will affect the aging process. I was pretty much leaning this way already, but was really more curious about those who may have done it this way and wish they would have gone another route or vice versa.. Maybe it was a hassle dealing with all the jars or after a while the space became an issue. Maybe they stored theres in larger jars and wish they would have went with smaller ones etc etc.

I have pretty much decided on the way I will go about the actual "canning" process of the jars so that is covered.

I looked pretty hard again last night and still didn't come up with a wholsale type solution on the jars via the web. Cheapest I found non-branded "wholesale" jars after lids & shipping still came out to aprox $100 for 72 of them. This is either right at or more then buying them locally. Kind of hard to believe that somewhere on the internet there isn't a better solution. In me searches last night, I actually found countless other people in various activities looking for the same thing. Cheap wholesale canning jars. Could be a lucrative market!

Any other thoughts/ideas/opinions/experiences are still greatly appreciated!
__________________
On the Eastern side of KC? Join our pipe club!!
http://www.bfekc.com
Big D KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 01:22 PM   #7
WWhermit
Still Watching My Back
 
WWhermit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Trading: (3)
WWhermit is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

I think that due to the weight, shipping would be too costly to do for jars. Better to get them at the local store, or stores. That's where I get them. Usually pick up a couple cases every couple weeks when I do a large order.

I also break up large orders into smaller jars. For bulk Virginias and cakes, I can fit about 3 ounces comfortably. Remember, you want some air in there for the aging process. That's why canning is preferable to vacuum sealing in a bag. No air, not much difference in aging.

I'd still boil water in the jars for the sterilization factor. You'd hate to have a small amount of bacteria on the lid or in the jar, put your treasured baccy in, and 5 years later open up a jar of mold. It's happened.

I use this, as some others have suggested. Foodsaver. And, I use this attachment for mason jars.

Aside from doing a great job of sealing mason jars (I've never had one that didn't seal perfectly) it has saved me hundreds, if not a thousand dollars in food storage. Well worth the money.

WWhermit
__________________
The slowly growing cellar
WWhermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 02:07 PM   #8
BigFrank
5 3 1
 
BigFrank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
First Name: Frank
Location: Gym or Sofa.
Posts: 1,896
Trading: (25)
Partagas
BigFrank will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

How good would the sealing process be if you just closed the lid tight on a mason jar? Or should you definitely seal it up?

Derek, check around bro. My local grocery store has em for damn cheap out here. The smaller ones are under 6 bucks for a dozen including lids.
__________________
" Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. "
BigFrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 02:18 PM   #9
Big D KC
Still Watching My Back
 
Big D KC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: KCMO
Posts: 88
Trading: (3)
Big D KC is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Good info Hermit!!

Couple questions for you: when you say smaller jars and you usually get about 3oz's per jar, are you talking about the 1/2 pint or full pint jars?

In one paragraph you say: "That's why canning is preferable to vacuum sealing in a bag. No air, not much difference in aging" Then in another you recommend a vacuum sealing product? Am I missing something here?? Or is vacuum sealing it in a jar better then in a bag because the jar will leave some air in it?

And am I reading it correctly that you have to buy special lids or something for the sealing attatchment deal?? I'm not getting a clear answer on that from what I'm reading.. My wife has been wanting one of these foodsaver deals for a while now, and hey if I can get some use out of it all the better!!
__________________
On the Eastern side of KC? Join our pipe club!!
http://www.bfekc.com
Big D KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 02:19 PM   #10
BigFrank
5 3 1
 
BigFrank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
First Name: Frank
Location: Gym or Sofa.
Posts: 1,896
Trading: (25)
Partagas
BigFrank will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Pipesandcigars offers vacuum sealing for a dollar. Might be an easy route. I have yet to get that but, might be worth a shot.
__________________
" Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. "
BigFrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 10:55 PM   #11
WWhermit
Still Watching My Back
 
WWhermit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Trading: (3)
WWhermit is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D KC View Post
Good info Hermit!!

Couple questions for you: when you say smaller jars and you usually get about 3oz's per jar, are you talking about the 1/2 pint or full pint jars?

In one paragraph you say: "That's why canning is preferable to vacuum sealing in a bag. No air, not much difference in aging" Then in another you recommend a vacuum sealing product? Am I missing something here?? Or is vacuum sealing it in a jar better then in a bag because the jar will leave some air in it?

And am I reading it correctly that you have to buy special lids or something for the sealing attatchment deal?? I'm not getting a clear answer on that from what I'm reading.. My wife has been wanting one of these foodsaver deals for a while now, and hey if I can get some use out of it all the better!!
To answer question #1

When you seal in a bag, it takes out 99% of the air. Not enough air to facilitate aging. When you seal in a mason jar, you can't get all the air out, just enough to create an air tight seal. With tobacco, you don't even really see a difference when the vacuum is complete. You do, however, when you try to take the lid off. Most of the time you have to pry it off with a knife. Even after a year.

#2. No special lids required at all. In fact, for tobacco, since I boil water in the jar in the microwave, and sterilize the lid in boiling water in a small saucepan, I use the same jars/lids over and over until they can't seal anymore. I've only had one do that.

#3. If you shop at Costco, they sell them there. It comes with a package of bags, I believe. You can buy the rolls there too, to make your own sized bags. And, you can buy meat and cheese in bulk, vacuum them in the bags, and toss the meat in the freezer. I've taken steaks out that were a year old, and found no difference in the meat quality. Your wife will love it.

We used to throw out about 30-50% of our meat from the freezer due to burn or just going bad. Now, we don't throw any away. You will make your money back in the first 2 months.

WWhermit
__________________
The slowly growing cellar
WWhermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 10:56 PM   #12
WWhermit
Still Watching My Back
 
WWhermit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Trading: (3)
WWhermit is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post
Pipesandcigars offers vacuum sealing for a dollar. Might be an easy route. I have yet to get that but, might be worth a shot.
They seal in a bag, not preferable to aging. If you're aging virginias, which ages the best of all tobaccos, you need some air.

WWhermit
__________________
The slowly growing cellar
WWhermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 08:30 AM   #13
Big D KC
Still Watching My Back
 
Big D KC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: KCMO
Posts: 88
Trading: (3)
Big D KC is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Alright Hermit, you've convinced me!!

I saw the one on the costco website which is a great deal! However when I was cruising the web double checking things I found a coupon code that gets you 40% off the same one direct from the manu. This one even comes with the wide mouth jar sealer attatchment!

So I bought this one: V2830 which they had "on sale" for $99.99. If you add in one more thing to your shopping cart to push it over $100.00 you get free shipping, so I added this cannister for $3.49. This put me at $103.48, which gets me the free shipping, and then I add in this code during the checkout: L8FAV28. This gets you the 40% off and is supposedly good through 1/31/09.

Shipped to my door I got the kit on its way for $67 after sales tax in my state! Not too shabby of a deal as far as I can tell, especially that in the hour previous to going for this one, I was prepared to spend $129 plus extra for the jar sealer. It pays to look around!!

And yep, I do believe the wife will be very pleased! Valentines day gift: CHECK. Now to order to up that baccy!!
__________________
On the Eastern side of KC? Join our pipe club!!
http://www.bfekc.com
Big D KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 09:28 AM   #14
Nick
Feeling at Home
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
First Name: That's confidential
Location: Cali
Posts: 623
Trading: (4)
Nick is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Is there any way to effectively seal a mason jar like this with out buying a food saver.
__________________
"Kid Pipe" -Thanks Moo
"A wise woman never separates a man from his pipe", Laurette Taylor
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 09:50 AM   #15
WWhermit
Still Watching My Back
 
WWhermit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Trading: (3)
WWhermit is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Big D scores!! Nice job, man. I'm sure you'll be very happy with it.

In answer to the question of sealing a mason jar without the Foodsaver. Yes, you can.

You have to heat it up with boiling water inside. Let the glass heat up and boil the lid in water at the same time. Dump the water out. Put the tobacco in quickly, put the lid on, and secure the ring. When the glass cools, and the air inside cools, it creates a vacuum. You'll know if you did it right when you press on the lid, and it doesn't pop up.

There is some concern that you can "cook" the tobacco with heat while doing this process. I've only done it this way a few times, and didn't have a problem. Maybe if I got the glass hotter it would have happened, I dunno. The glass cools down fairly quickly.

Best of luck.

WWhermit
__________________
The slowly growing cellar
WWhermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 09:53 AM   #16
Nick
Feeling at Home
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
First Name: That's confidential
Location: Cali
Posts: 623
Trading: (4)
Nick is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

I guess I could do that and then stick it in the fridge right away. That may help to stunt any further "stoving."
__________________
"Kid Pipe" -Thanks Moo
"A wise woman never separates a man from his pipe", Laurette Taylor
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 10:33 AM   #17
Big D KC
Still Watching My Back
 
Big D KC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: KCMO
Posts: 88
Trading: (3)
Big D KC is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Yea I had read about the heating way of getting a good seal, and honestly the whole process just seems like a huge hassle! (I wont be messing with the wax sealing either!) Thats why when you mentioned the vac sealer setup I became very interested! Seamed way easier, I just wasn't sure of the thought vac sealing the jars. But I am ok with it now. I agree that there will be some air left in the jars and I think it should be enough to facilitate aging.

Hermit I appreciate your help greatly! I may end up bugging you a couple times over the next week as things start showing up since you've been down this path before! One question I still have you didn't address is in your very first reply, you mentioned small jars and that you usually got 3oz per jar, is that for the half pint small jars or whole pint? Do you happen to have a pic of one of your jars all sealed up? I am still curious about how much I should be putting in each jar and how much air space should be left.

ok Baccy is ordered, Foodsaver is ordered, now to hunt down them damn jars over the weekend!
__________________
On the Eastern side of KC? Join our pipe club!!
http://www.bfekc.com
Big D KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 01:17 PM   #18
Slow Triathlete
I Need A Beer!!
 
Slow Triathlete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
First Name: Scott
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 362
Trading: (11)
RA
Slow Triathlete is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

The way that I see it is that you are probably kicking out a decent amount of $$$ for this tobacco.

Spend the money now to seal it up properly (mason jars have proven themselves to me) because you don't want to open up a jar of tobacco 10 years from now and find it ruined.

If you break it down to each individual jar, I buy a 12 pack of the wide mouth quart jars to split up a pound of tobacco into four 4oz containers. I buy them for about $10 for the case.

That's less than a $1 for each jar and I know that when I pull them in 10 years they will be fine.

I use the boil method to seal mine. That's just my preferance. Again, it has proven itself to me.
Slow Triathlete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 03:14 PM   #19
Big D KC
Still Watching My Back
 
Big D KC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: KCMO
Posts: 88
Trading: (3)
Big D KC is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Right on S_T, and yea some pretty good coin got spent so I want to take the right steps for sure!!
__________________
On the Eastern side of KC? Join our pipe club!!
http://www.bfekc.com
Big D KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 08:21 PM   #20
WWhermit
Still Watching My Back
 
WWhermit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 77
Trading: (3)
WWhermit is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Need some advice on long term aging!

Yep with Slow Triathlete,

I use the quart jars, I believe, and get about 3 ounces, maybe a little more, in the jar.

I just put enough in so there's about 1 inch of space left on top, for the air. You may be able to get more in, depending on the tobacco. This is for ribbon cut. Cake and coins you will get more into the jar.

Target has some small jars, like 1/4 pint or smaller. They are round on top, square on the bottom and about 2-4 inches tall. The Foodsaver cannot seal these due to the shape of the jar, so avoid those if you can. Regular mason jars, wide mouth are fine. I see now that Foodsaver sells attachment for narrow size mason jars also. I may pick one up.

I'll try to get a picture or two up here soon. And feel free to bug me all ya want, always willing to help if I can. It's easier than it seems, believe me. Just remember to boil water in the jar to kill any bacteria.

WWhermit
__________________
The slowly growing cellar
WWhermit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content is copyrighted jointly by Cigar Asylum and the content provider.