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Old 11-26-2009, 08:25 PM   #1
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Default Need some input

Hey guys; coffee machine crapped out. I am in need of a new one. I'd love an espresso/coffee maker that will grind as well. But I hear bad things about them (quality of espresso). Should I keep them separate? Any recommendations? TYIA and happy holidays.
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:05 AM   #2
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Default Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costa View Post
Hey guys; coffee machine crapped out. I am in need of a new one. I'd love an espresso/coffee maker that will grind as well. But I hear bad things about them (quality of espresso). Should I keep them separate? Any recommendations? TYIA and happy holidays.
It begins with the budget, Costa. Then there is the grinder. It ends with the budget.

What is the budget (and don't forget Christmas is coming)?

Actual, good worthwhile espresso means good grinder ($$$), a pricey machine ($$$) and a substantial amount of bother; nearly espresso (but satill quite good) means a passable grinder ($$-$$$) and a very modest brewer ($$) like a mokapot or an AeroPress. Excellent brewed coffee, non-pressurized, means a modest grinder ($$-$$$) and a french press ($$) or a manual dripper or manual pourover filter ($-$$).

There are many routes to coffee nirvana but they all require good quality, freshly roasted coffee, a little attention to brewing details and, if at all possible, a good conical burr grinder.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:17 AM   #3
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Default Re: Need some input

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Originally Posted by Mister Moo View Post
It begins with the budget, Costa. Then there is the grinder. It ends with the budget.

What is the budget and don't forget Christmas is coming.
Haha, so true. Ok Mister Moo, here it goes; after researching for hours and hours, I now realize my journey to coffee/espresso nirvana has to start with a grinder. I am willing to make the investment in a good one, followed by getting the beans somewhere other than the super market. I will be a drip coffee maker during the week, and may play around with the French press on the weekends. I may have to wait to make the big investment for an espresso maker. So let me know your thoughts Mr. M on the following:

1) grinder; I have read all about the burr grinders, etc. What do you recommend as one that I will buy once and be done?
2) probably won't be roasting, so where do you recommend getting the beans via online? I like a STRONG cup.
3) whats your thoughts on a Technivorm and a Capresso MT500? Both seem to nail the proper temp. and like I said, I will always need a drip to fill my during the week needs.
4) espresso machines; whats the price range to get into a good one?
5) I have heard a lot about this, and was one of TIME magazines best new inventions of the year: http://www.mypressi.com/
What are your thoughts?

Thank you again for your time!
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:20 AM   #4
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Default Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Moo View Post
It begins with the budget, Costa. Then there is the grinder. It ends with the budget.

What is the budget (and don't forget Christmas is coming)?

Actual, good worthwhile espresso means good grinder ($$$), a pricey machine ($$$) and a substantial amount of bother; nearly espresso (but satill quite good) means a passable grinder ($$-$$$) and a very modest brewer ($$) like a mokapot or an AeroPress. Excellent brewed coffee, non-pressurized, means a modest grinder ($$-$$$) and a french press ($$) or a manual dripper or manual pourover filter ($-$$).

There are many routes to coffee nirvana but they all require good quality, freshly roasted coffee, a little attention to brewing details and, if at all possible, a good conical burr grinder.
Oh no, I have 58 mm burrs that are flat and I thought I had hit nirvana.

I couldn't be happier with my Mazzer killer, I mean Macap M4 stepless and doubt I will ever buy another grinder.

No need to tell everyone how far from an expert I am, but would give serious thought to just plunking down 2 grand and getting a great grinder and an espresso machine ( I am biased to HX E61 types now) and never think about coffee eqiuipment again until someone brings up Regbarber tampers.
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Old 11-27-2009, 11:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: Need some input

Keep them seperate. Mazzer or Rocky grinder will do the trick for life. Both are worth their price. The Rocky has a lot of plastic around it which "could" crack, but the guts are commerical grade. The Mazzer is all that, but so is the price.

As for machines, it depends on how much you want to spend.

I have the Rocky/Silva set for a decade now and it has been pretty solid. Two group head gaskets and one thermometer. I plan to step it up some times if 2-3K falls into my lap.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: Need some input

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Originally Posted by mosesbotbol View Post
Keep them seperate. Mazzer or Rocky grinder will do the trick for life. Both are worth their price. The Rocky has a lot of plastic around it which "could" crack, but the guts are commerical grade. The Mazzer is all that, but so is the price.

As for machines, it depends on how much you want to spend.

I have the Rocky/Silva set for a decade now and it has been pretty solid. Two group head gaskets and one thermometer. I plan to step it up some times if 2-3K falls into my lap.
Thank you so much bud! So, for the coffee only maker, whats your take? It seems to me my choice is the Capresso MT500 or the Technivorm, based on what I've read pertaining to temperature.....thoughts?

Boy, am I upgrading.....lol.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Need some input

Ok, pulling the trigger on a Rocky. What is the difference between these two; they are about the same price, and I can't read the difference in their description...........let me know if one of these are a good choice, I will be waiting with CC in hand....lol. Thanks again guys, as if I did not spend enough on cigars already......haha.


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Old 11-27-2009, 02:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Need some input

One is doserless and puts the grinds directly into the portafilter. I've read that doserless grinders are harder to deal with clumps.
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Need some input

A friend of mine owns an English pub and always served coffee. The coffee shop next door went out of business and he picked up this Kony for about 700 bucks and it only had about a year use on it.

Probably overkill for home use, but it is sweet. Kinda looks like a giant crystal in the throat of the grinder.

He also got one of those big machines with the brass top on it for a couple grand.

All in all he has a nice setup now on the bar.

http://www.espressoparts.com/MAZZER_KONY
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Old 11-28-2009, 07:04 AM   #10
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Default Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydpink View Post
A friend of mine owns an English pub and always served coffee. The coffee shop next door went out of business and he picked up this Kony for about 700 bucks and it only had about a year use on it.

Probably overkill for home use, but it is sweet. Kinda looks like a giant crystal in the throat of the grinder.

He also got one of those big machines with the brass top on it for a couple grand.

All in all he has a nice setup now on the bar.

http://www.espressoparts.com/MAZZER_KONY
Holy crap, thats nice. Decided to make the investment after years of drinking sub-par coffee. I'm a "invest now" kind of guy, so I want to make sure I am getting something that will get me through many, many years.

Tell ya, I can't figure out which way to go, doser or doserless, read so many differing opinions on each.......

So, my steps are

1) Grinder - one of the Rocky's
2) daily use maker - still undecided
3) bean source - not sure yet
4) a REAL espressso maker - once 1-3 are done, I will hit that one.

Please keep any an all input coming. This is exactly what I went through with cigars many years ago on the old CS. I'd be a rich man if it were not for you gentlemen....haha.

I'm all ears; doser or doserless and what coffeemaker (is the MT500 any good).
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Old 11-28-2009, 08:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: Need some input

Get this one if you are ever going to buy an espresso machine. Even if you just use this grinder for French Press or drip, the doser is a big help.



Buy the grinder first and I would strongly suggest one with a doser. No opinion on which machine to buy. Really depends on your budget. Silvia will get you going, but some of the 1000-1500 machines are real nice. The temp's and pressure are more steady.

A friend of mine has the Mazzer without the doser and it's a pain to fill the portafilter and very messy. You'll find making espresso a dirty job in general.
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Old 11-28-2009, 08:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Need some input

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Originally Posted by mosesbotbol View Post
Get this one if you are ever going to buy an espresso machine. Even if you just use this grinder for French Press or drip, the doser is a big help.



Buy the grinder first and I would strongly suggest one with a doser. No opinion on which machine to buy. Really depends on your budget. Silvia will get you going, but some of the 1000-1500 machines are real nice. The temp's and pressure are more steady.

Fantastic, ordering it now! How about straight coffee maker? The machine (espresso) I will attack sometime this late spring, but would like to get a coffee machine that will give me the best coffee for the money; any input on that one? And again, thank all of you guys so much for your time....
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: Need some input

Why don't you consider a moka pot or a pour over for the coffee and wait to buy an espresso machine?

For some strange reason, I see coffee roasting in your future.


I'm the same way about the investing for the long run and firmly believe a couple hundred extra on a grinder puts you in a whole different league, and wouldn't write off refurbished equipment which, in many cases, was simply a return. Not that the Rocky won't serve you well for many years. It sure has a lot of fans and combines with the Silvia in many happy homes.

In my case, after a long and grueling grinder research, the 2 I came down to were the Mazzer Mini and Macap M4 stepless. The Macap ended up on my counter next to my Brasilia and I am very happy, but a little broke.

I did some mods on my Macap, like taking off the "beauty ring", or the useless black numbered ring that you can't read the numbers on for the adjustments, painted it silver, and then put in black lines so seeing the tiniest adjustments was easier. You may be able to see the white arrow I put on it to show my "point zero".

Every grinder, in my opinion, has one or two design flaws that really should be improved.

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Old 11-28-2009, 09:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydpink View Post
Why don't you consider a moka pot or a pour over for the coffee and wait to buy an espresso machine?

For some strange reason, I see coffee roasting in your future.


I'm the same way about the investing for the long run and firmly believe a couple hundred extra on a grinder puts you in a whole different league, and wouldn't write off refurbished equipment which, in many cases, was simply a return. Not that the Rocky won't serve you well for many years. It sure has a lot of fans and combines with the Silvia in many happy homes.
Mainly based on my weekly schedule; I work 12 hours per day, and the gf does not get as anal about things as I do....lol. Still the quick cup of coffee that will satisfy my needs and hers from the best (drip) maker I can get. And I travel as well, so when she is alone, she can make a pot of coffee.

I just googled moka pot, and that looks like the fastest route to espresso until I buy my "machine". The Rocky should cover my grinding needs for that, correct?

Boy, I feel like the days when I first started diving into my cigar habit head first; ignorant......but VERY excited. You guys are the best. I can remember my frantic post's with every question cigar related many years ago, and some of you same guys sending me down the slope...lol.

Can't thank you guys enough. This machine breaking I think will be the best thing that could have happened....haha.

Would you say the moka pot is the best route to good stove top espresso?

Also, any leads on where to buy beans for when the grinder comes in? Give me your favorite one's, I'm into trying anything!

Thanks again, all of you!!!
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:08 AM   #15
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Default Re: Need some input

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydpink View Post
Why don't you consider a moka pot or a pour over for the coffee and wait to buy an espresso machine?

For some strange reason, I see coffee roasting in your future.


I'm the same way about the investing for the long run and firmly believe a couple hundred extra on a grinder puts you in a whole different league, and wouldn't write off refurbished equipment which, in many cases, was simply a return. Not that the Rocky won't serve you well for many years. It sure has a lot of fans and combines with the Silvia in many happy homes.

In my case, after a long and grueling grinder research, the 2 I came down to were the Mazzer Mini and Macap M4 stepless. The Macap ended up on my counter next to my Brasilia and I am very happy, but a little broke.

I did some mods on my Macap, like taking off the "beauty ring", or the useless black numbered ring that you can't read the numbers on for the adjustments, painted it silver, and then put in black lines so seeing the tiniest adjustments was easier. You may be able to see the white arrow I put on it to show my "point zero".

Every grinder, in my opinion, has one or two design flaws that really should be improved.

HOly cow, thats awesome looking! Man! Do you think I should jump up a notch other than the Rocky?
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:49 AM   #16
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Default Re: Need some input

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HOly cow, thats awesome looking! Man! Do you think I should jump up a notch other than the Rocky?
Man You already have the sickness,

Just wanted to give you some pricing info before you go too nuts:

This is my grinder, which is better (I say) or slightly worse (Moo says) than a Mazzer:



You're talking 6 Bills plus to make the next move up from a Rocky.

Here's my espresso machine:



That's another 1,500 beans


That's a setup that will last you the rest of your life, you'll never have upgraditis, but it isn't cheap. It all depends on how much you want to spend, and if you suffer from upgraditis or not
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Old 11-28-2009, 10:58 AM   #17
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Default Re: Need some input

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Man You already have the sickness,

Just wanted to give you some pricing info before you go too nuts:

This is my grinder, which is better (I say) or slightly worse (Moo says) than a Mazzer:



You're talking 6 Bills plus to make the next move up from a Rocky.

Here's my espresso machine:



That's another 1,500 beans


That's a setup that will last you the rest of your life, you'll never have upgraditis, but it isn't cheap. It all depends on how much you want to spend, and if you suffer from upgraditis or not
I would expect to spend about $1500 for the espresso maker, thats a beauty, what make?

I'm a "buy once" guy, so I want to make the right choice, once, and be done. Rarely regret spending the $$, but have regretted not getting what I wanted the first time around. So while I'm not a "money is not an option guy", I am willing make the investment, but look for that "value sweet spot".

So, I'm getting the feeling the Rocky may not be the grinder that gets me into old age..........

Also, what is your thoughts on a day-to-day coffee maker? Thanks!
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Need some input

Vic's setup is really close to mine; Macap grinder and a HX E61 machine.

With an E61 brewgroup, you have brewgroup that weighs more than most machines do and besides a cooling flush before pulling a shot, very little to worry about once you get dialed in. I doubt you'll find anyone who will tell you they are looking to upgrade their heat exchange E61 machine, regardless of who made it. Once you get into that price range, it comes down to small cosmetic issues and the decision will be made on stuff like guages and cup warmers and plumbing in my opinion. It's also a really good time to make sure you are getting what you really will be happy with.

For a grinder, I chose the Macap for a few reasons like cord placement, cleaner doser sweep, and most importantly; a worm drive adjuster to satisfy my OCD tendencies. My finger was on the "buy now" button on the Mazzer a couple times though.

In my opinion, for home or small cafe use, that's a really hard to beat combo.

I got my Macap for around 500 bucks from Wholelatttelove and upgraded from a Gaggia MDF grinder, which was supposedly a small step below the Rocky grinder, who knows.

The difference is night and day between the grinders and the machine replaced a Baby Gaggia, which I feel is also a step or two below the Silvia.

The difference now is consistent and perfect shots that allowed me to entertain on Thanksgiving without missing a beat.

Whatever you decide, it takes time and money to figure out how to get the shots you like and, if you're like me, you'll never be completely satisfied.

Do it right the first time and don't look back. It ain't a crime to be good to yourself.

Oh, and to answer your question, yes, I think you should move up from the Rocky.
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:44 PM   #19
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I tried out this machine last year and I can say (as someone using a Silva 10 years) that this machine is wonderful. For sure there is a big difference once you know what you are doing. My next will be either that machine or something similar. With someone who knows how to make an espresso and froth, you can be 100% in no time.

Trial and error will waste a lot of coffee beans which can be expensive. Over the years I get less picky about beans since most of what I brew are lattes vs. just espresso. I keep it the Euro size cup so it's still a robust drink.
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: Need some input

Hey guys, whats your take on this statement, I got it from the Macap Stepless M-4 write-up on Amazon:

Quote:
This grinder is prefect for any dedicated espresso set up but is not recommended for situations requiring grinding for various methods of coffee brewing as the grind adjustment happens very slowly.
I will be using this for coffee until the spring when I splurge on an espresso maker in the $1500-2000 range. I will probably make it on the stove to practice and get familiar, but will be using the grinder for day-to-day coffee until I pull the trigger.

Why would that be the case, and thank you for teaching me the art of coffee.
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