Starting to like wine...the Red version

[shilala]

I do a lot of wine shopping for Lisa. She likes Cabs and Merlot.
Bob is right on the money, someone told me the same thing when I asked in the liquor store.
Seems like Lisa likes Napa Valley stuff the most, Australian stuff the least. I'm trying to pay attention to what I buy so I can guess a little better. The year doesn't so much seem to matter, but 2005 seems to be where it's at, so far.
We have bunches of wineries around here, I'm hoping to find something local that she likes a lot. I'm guessing it'd be better, and better for her.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by shilala

Seems like Lisa likes Napa Valley stuff the most, Australian stuff the least.

There is a reason for that :-) I am sure there is an old thread on the subject, but in simple terms: Napa - clean, well made wines, OZ - all sorts of manipulation and additions plus way to much oak and at prices we're discussing, not oak barrels but oak chips to simply flavor the wine...

Just to put things in perspective, Michael Twelftree, the Two Hands guy, was bad mouthing CA wines and winemaking expertise big time in press. Take a wild guess where he is making wine now, or rather, who makes it for him and where...

[rlmedic]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

There is a reason for that :-) I am sure there is an old thread on the subject, but in simple terms: Napa - clean, well made wines, OZ - all sorts of manipulation and additions plus way to much oak and at prices we're discussing, not oak barrels but oak chips to simply flavor the wine...

Just to put things in perspective, Michael Twelftree, the Two Hands guy, was bad mouthing CA wines and winemaking expertise big time in press. Take a wild guess where he is making wine now, or rather, who makes it for him and where...

Lots of napa wineries also use oak chips for their less expensive wines along with egg shells so its not that Napa makes clean wine its a different grape different taste different expirence all around.

As to some inexpensive Napa cabs on of my favorites that is easy to get is called "the show" by joel gott/rebel wine company about $12.50/btl

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by rlmedic

Lots of napa wineries also use oak chips for their less expensive wines along with egg shells so its not that Napa makes clean wine its a different grape different taste different expirence all around.

As to some inexpensive Napa cabs on of my favorites that is easy to get is called "the show" by joel gott/rebel wine company about $12.50/btl

Just curious, do you know what egg shells are used for? And if we're on the subject, it is egg whites, not egg shells, easier and "cleaner". I have seen milk used as well. What's so bad about egg whites or milk?

How many cheap Napa reds do you know? Say, compared to the zillions of "animal label" cases that come out of OZ? Have you been to any Napa cellars and seen nothing but acres of barrels? There is a reason for that OZ Cab to be priced at $15 or below and there is a reason many Napa Cabs cost $50 and up, barrels are sold in EU (currency), price per ton goes up to $15K (per ton). On the other hand, oak chips are cheap, harvesting 15 tons per acre (as opposed to 3 tons per in Napa) also makes for bland taste, main reason the big boys in OZ have some interesting "research" chem labs in place. To be fair, so does Gallo.

Better OZ Cabs cost same as Napa Cabs and the reasons are listed in the paragraph above. There are no miracles and no short cuts in wine world. BTW, many top end OZ Cabs (and reds in general) still use American oak barrels, they are about half price of European barrels.

Cab a different grape? Different taste? How? Have you done blind Cab tastings? Try a BLIND tasting of Cabs from whatever regions you feel like, let me know how much of a difference you will be able to pick up. Then do a similar BLIND tasting of, say, Pinot Noirs and red Burgs, and let me know just how easy it will be picking them apart. Same for Chardonnay and Chablis. German Reisling versus Austrian. I can go on... Cab is Cab until you reach into upper price range and this thread is obviously not there. Cab is a "pedestrian" and very hyped up grape, main reason so many are now moving to the likes of Portugal reds, Agentian Malbec, Grenache based reds, Syrah based blends, Petite Sirah and others. I stopped buying Cab years ago and am down to maybe a couple of cases.

Joel Gott makes no NAPA CAB, it is labeled CALIFORNIA CAB for a reason.

Let's talk apples and apples...

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Cab is Cab until you reach into upper price range and this thread is obviously not there. Cab is a "pedestrian" and very hyped up grape, main reason so many are now moving to the likes of Portugal reds, Agentian Malbec, Grenache based reds, Syrah based blends, Petite Sirah and others. I stopped buying Cab years ago and am down to maybe a couple of cases.

Cab is best blended as is most wine. Only a few grapes are really "meant" or can stand to be by themselves.

Buy wines from an chateau, estate, or producer. Wine should come from a specific place, not a wild animal print or fake entity.

[rlmedic]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Just curious, do you know what egg shells are used for? And if we're on the subject, it is egg whites, not egg shells, easier and "cleaner". I have seen milk used as well. What's so bad about egg whites or milk?

How many cheap Napa reds do you know? Say, compared to the zillions of "animal label" cases that come out of OZ? Have you been to any Napa cellars and seen nothing but acres of barrels? There is a reason for that OZ Cab to be priced at $15 or below and there is a reason many Napa Cabs cost $50 and up, barrels are sold in EU (currency), price per ton goes up to $15K (per ton). On the other hand, oak chips are cheap, harvesting 15 tons per acre (as opposed to 3 tons per in Napa) also makes for bland taste, main reason the big boys in OZ have some interesting "research" chem labs in place. To be fair, so does Gallo.

Better OZ Cabs cost same as Napa Cabs and the reasons are listed in the paragraph above. There are no miracles and no short cuts in wine world. BTW, many top end OZ Cabs (and reds in general) still use American oak barrels, they are about half price of European barrels.

Cab a different grape? Different taste? How? Have you done blind Cab tastings? Try a BLIND tasting of Cabs from whatever regions you feel like, let me know how much of a difference you will be able to pick up. Then do a similar BLIND tasting of, say, Pinot Noirs and red Burgs, and let me know just how easy it will be picking them apart. Same for Chardonnay and Chablis. German Reisling versus Austrian. I can go on... Cab is Cab until you reach into upper price range and this thread is obviously not there. Cab is a "pedestrian" and very hyped up grape, main reason so many are now moving to the likes of Portugal reds, Agentian Malbec, Grenache based reds, Syrah based blends, Petite Sirah and others. I stopped buying Cab years ago and am down to maybe a couple of cases.

Joel Gott makes no NAPA CAB, it is labeled CALIFORNIA CAB for a reason.

Let's talk apples and apples...

Actually I do know what they are used for...as for a blind tasting I would be happy to...and be able to tell the diffference not only between say a napa cab and sonoma cab but a oakville vs a stags leap or howell mtn.

As for this thread it seems everytime you post all you do is try to prove your smarter then everyone else..just in case your wondering your not all I was doing was trying to give a new wine drinker some inexpensive domestic cab recomendations.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by rlmedic

Actually I do know what they are used for...as for a blind tasting I would be happy to...and be able to tell the diffference not only between say a napa cab and sonoma cab but a oakville vs a stags leap or howell mtn.

As for this thread it seems everytime you post all you do is try to prove your smarter then everyone else..just in case your wondering your not all I was doing was trying to give a new wine drinker some inexpensive domestic cab recomendations.

And if you do, then you'd know they are used to TAKE OUT tannin, they do not add anything in. In your post you challenged me when I stated that OZ wineries making cheap wine ADD stuff in. Tannin included among many other things.

I'd be happy to set up a blind tasting for you, next time you're in CA let me know and I will be happy to oblige. Just don't get too giddy, falling hard is the norm in blind tastings rather than success.

For someone who boasts of easily telling wines apart in a blind tasting I find it very strange that you have no idea the wine you recommended to the board doesn't even exist. Talk about expertise.

[rlmedic]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

And if you do, then you'd know they are used to TAKE OUT tannin, they do not add anything in. In your post you challenged me when I stated that OZ wineries making cheap wine ADD stuff in. Tannin included among many other things.

I'd be happy to set up a blind tasting for you, next time you're in CA let me know and I will be happy to oblige. Just don't get too giddy, falling hard is the norm in blind tastings rather than success.

For someone who boasts of easily telling wines apart in a blind tasting I find it very strange that you have no idea the wine you recommended to the board doesn't even exist. Talk about expertise.

And what wine would you be refering to that does not exist?