McGwire Admits to Steroids......

[Whynot]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Don't disagree at all.
I think they are all scum for having been cheaters.
One thing is if no one knew the effects of it or if it wasn't banned.
They did it knowing fully well.

It is truly a shame.
Hank and Marris have been screwed by cheaters and no one is doing anything at this time to fix it so at least one of them does not continue to roll in his grave.

It was not banned by baseball at the time. Illegal yes, but not banned by the rules of the game. Many here may want to be careful about condeming someone for ingesting an illegal substance or item. I must say it is good to talk baseball with those that obviously care for the game, even if it is in disagreement. It is getting harder to find folks that still enjoy it.

[MedicCook]

Originally Posted by Whynot

It was not banned by baseball at the time. Illegal yes, but not banned by the rules of the game. Many here may want to be careful about condeming someone for ingesting an illegal substance or item. I must say it is good to talk baseball with those that obviously care for the game, even if it is in disagreement. It is getting harder to find folks that still enjoy it.

Being illegal makes it cheating. The fact that there was no punishment for using it during the time does not matter. If you used illegal steroids you broke the law. You took an item that gave you a competitive edge over your peers and to do that you committed a crime. That is cheating.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by Whynot

It was not banned by baseball at the time. Illegal yes, but not banned by the rules of the game. Many here may want to be careful about condeming someone for ingesting an illegal substance or item. I must say it is good to talk baseball with those that obviously care for the game, even if it is in disagreement. It is getting harder to find folks that still enjoy it.

I agree to an extent.

Originally Posted by MedicCook

You took an item that gave you a competitive edge over your peers and to do that you committed a crime. That is cheating.

How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others? Everyone has a choice whether to take them or not. Some chose to; others don't. An unsafe choice that many will choose not to make. Everyone has to decide. Some choose to work hard in the offseason and train all year long; others don't. It's a personal choice that everyone makes, whether legal, moral, or not. So those who train hard in the offseason have an advantage over those who don't. I don't condone the use of steroids, just posting a thought.

[Whynot]

Where do cortisone and HGH fall in? Not really performance enhancers so are they all right? They do provide an "unnatural" advantage over pain and injury.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Whynot

Where do cortisone and HGH fall in? Not really performance enhancers so are they all right? They do provide an "unnatural" advantage over pain and injury.

Not even in the same league.
One relieves pain. The other enhances strength/endurance/speed.
Even if they were remotely for one second in the same league, one is approved, the other is not.
Perhaps someday they will determine cortisone use is now illegal. At that point, so it will be. Today, it is not.

[chippewastud79]

Looks like Mark and others were holding out for some immunity on the issue before they testified before congress a few years ago that led to the "I don't want to talk about the past" statements. A lot of it seems to be protection for his family and other players who were involved. McGwire apparently told Congress behind closed doors that he did use steroids but he didn't want to 'throw anyone under the bus' in front of Congress, and wanted to stay away from prosecution.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I agree to an extent.


How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others?

Serious?
Just go back and look at Bonds, Canseco, McGwire and Sosa. All were sticks when they joined MLB.
Then look at the explosion their bodies took post what was evident to be steroid use. You can clearly see at what point they started.
While that doesn't help them see the ball any better, when they do connect, I assure you those built up bodies will drive it quite a bit further than when they were skinny. And what is it they all did well? Hit home runs. Hmmm........
That is only the surface of what steroid use did for them. Lots more it can do and hence the reason for it making them blatant cheaters.

[yourchoice]

So much to say.....

If and when A-Rod is approaching and breaking Bond's career HR record, there will be a lot of disgust toward A-Rod. The reason there is so much disgust towards McGuire & Sosa is baseball marketed and people bought into the home run chase that year "bringing us back to baseball". It worked, we're back and a lot of people now feel they were duped. Rightfully so.

As for the question

Originally Posted by andysutherland

How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others? Everyone has a choice whether to take them or not.

You're kidding, right? Of course steroids gives the user a competitive advantage over the non-user. Not everyone "has a choice" because not everyone is morally wired the same. To suggest that the non-user had a choice to use them is silly to me. Morally, they had no choice. (I hope that makes sense! )

As for McGuire's admission, it was CRAP. He's trying to sell a BS story that the roids didn't help him become a better hitter, it just helped him heal faster. He can't possibly believe that. He went from 1 HR every 14 AB to 1 HR every 7 AB, not because of steroids, but because of a shortened swing and better discipline. Who does he think he is fooling? The outcry, IMHO, wouldn't be as severe had he not tried to sell that BS

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by yourchoice

You're kidding, right? Of course steroids gives the user a competitive advantage over the non-user. Not everyone "has a choice" because not everyone is morally wired the same. To suggest that the non-user had a choice to use them is silly to me. Morally, they had no choice. (I hope that makes sense! )

I don't buy that. Some people think that baseball is immoral (Lou Gherig's mother). They can't even play the sport b/c of their morals. So those of us who think that baseball and sports in general are not immoral have an unfair advantage over those who will not participate based on their morals b/c we chose to play over those who chose not to play.

And even the most morally sound people make bad decisions.

[hotreds]

Uh, by the way; it's "Maris." Thank-you. Not surprising MM used the juice- I imagine a majority did. You're talking about enormous sums of money to be earned, and if the juice helped you get it.....

The sad thing is that kids are taking them because their heroes did, too. And, bottom line; they do work. When you're 25 and ready to sign for $100 million, the fact that you might die of cancer when you're 50 is far from important on your list.

I remember asking my doc if he thought andro might help me build muscle- "Yeah, but you'll also build liver cancer." No thanks. I do wonder if more juicing is still going on than generally acknowledged.

Remember Brady Anderson coming out of nowhere and having a 50HR season- and then basically vanishing? Hmmm....

[AD720]

Every time I see the title of this thread I think:




Ok, carry on, sorry for the interruption.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by hotreds

The sad thing is that kids are taking them because their heroes did, too.

This is my beef w/ why they take steroids. Not the unfair advantage part. Steroids are bad for your body, just ask Eddie Guerrero. And when the big guys do it, the young ones who look up to them think that it's ok to abuse their body. But the same can be said about Darryl Strawberry and cocaine.

[yourchoice]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I don't buy that. Some people think that baseball is immoral (Lou Gherig's mother). They can't even play the sport b/c of their morals. So those of us who think that baseball and sports in general are not immoral have an unfair advantage over those who will not participate based on their morals b/c we chose to play over those who chose not to play.

And even the most morally sound people make bad decisions.

Everyone makes bad decisions. No doubt about it. Everyone breaks the law to some extent (speeding for example). But what I interpretated from your statements is you feel everyone has a choice to do roids to compete with their counterparts since they are doing it. I think that's extremely unfair to those people who won't do them, be it for moral or future health reasons. Then you go on to say "the young ones who look up to them think that it's ok to abuse their body". Maybe I'm misunderstanding your first point, because on the one hand you're suggesting everyone can do it because they have the opportunity, then on the other hand saying it's a shame the young ones look up to them. Based on the first point I would have assumed you thought it okay for the young ones to do it too if everyone else was doing it.

[Whynot]

Originally Posted by yourchoice

Everyone makes bad decisions. No doubt about it. Everyone breaks the law to some extent (speeding for example). But what I interpretated from your statements is you feel everyone has a choice to do roids to compete with their counterparts since they are doing it. I think that's extremely unfair to those people who won't do them, be it for moral or future health reasons. Then you go on to say "the young ones who look up to them think that it's ok to abuse their body". Maybe I'm misunderstanding your first point, because on the one hand you're suggesting everyone can do it because they have the opportunity, then on the other hand saying it's a shame the young ones look up to them. Based on the first point I would have assumed you thought it okay for the young ones to do it too if everyone else was doing it.

Saying someone has the means to do something is totally different than saying it is right or wrong.