Interesting read on misconceptions on Cuba

[the nub]

From my own experience, I can say that the 'truth' is never the truth in Cuba. What you think you know is only what you observe at any given moment or what someone tells you. Tomorrow may not produce the same results. Often times, what Cubans tell you is what they think you want to hear. Often times what you see is filtered through the eyes of a foreigner. I can say one thing, though. It would be very difficult for a westerner to live the life of a Cuban and vica versa. With each visit, I learn more, yet know less.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by the nub

I can say one thing, though. It would be very difficult for a westerner to live the life of a Cuban and vica versa. With each visit, I learn more, yet know less.

Do the millions of Cubans here in the US know this, the visa versa part that is?
I guess the ones that died trying to swim over didn't know this either.
How the heck did my family and I conform and grow use to it? Gotta go back and look at that one a bit closer.

With that, I think I contributed enough and don't want to be the cause of wrong direction in any way.
Just hard to be told you have a green car yet every day when you go outside and clean it, it is white as a ghost, yet you should think it is green.

One of her (Yoani) quotes is so powerful:
Today could have been a day like any other… I regret not being able to say so. It is my son, Jimmy’s, 11th birthday. It has been six years of forced absence imposed by hatred and evil, incapable of understanding that not all men think alike. That has been my punishment, for the government to separate me from my son, by imprisoning me.
I bet she could get use to being here, free, with her son very, very easily.

I make $8 a month! Fidel!

[the nub]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Do the millions of Cubans here in the US know this, the visa versa part that is?
I guess the ones that died trying to swim over didn't know this either.
How the heck did my family and I conform and grow use to it? Gotta go back and look at that one a bit closer.

With that, I think I contributed enough and don't want to be the cause of wrong direction in any way.
Just hard to be told you have a green car yet every day when you go outside and clean it, it is white as a ghost, yet you should think it is green.

I didn't say it was impossible, only difficult. I can tell only from my experiences from talking with Cubans and from conversations that my friends have had. For example, the idea of credit is absolutely foreign for most of them. They think that all tourists are millionaires since we can buy a 200CUC box of cigars. Those that are willing to take the risk to leave have a different mindset and are willing to do whatever it takes to live their dream. BUT the vast majority that I've encountered, while happy in general, have no clue about western society. Not that they are stupid or unresourceful, just that the norm here does not exist in Cuba.

[markem]

The article that Poker linked (thanks, Kelly!) attempts to paint a specific picture of Cuba in about 2000. It may or may not be accurate (suspect some of both). My read is that it is a "sway piece" written for a specific aim and audience, although the writer isn't quite up front about it. Lots of ways to read it, so lots of possible aims and/or audiences.

That all said, accurate information on the state of the Cuban economy, conditions for the average citizen, etc. is available. Lots of first hand reporting by the countries (nearly every one besides that US) that have relations with Cuba. The Canadian press has been pretty good about balanced reports, or so it seems to me.

My question would be this: are there any countries similar to Cuba (in terms of political structure, state of the citizens, etc.) with whom the US has relations or is in the process of seriously pursuing relations? I think that the answer is 'yes' and that begs a second question: why are normal relations with Cuba not an active part of US policy? Why is Cuba being treated differently?

Normalizing relations with China in the 70s could be seen as the driving force behind the modernization of China and the growth of the democracy movement there. Could the same happen with Cuba?

The one thing that I will toss out there is that if there was unrestricted travel to Cuba from the US, the amount of money flowing into the economy and the substantial contact between the peoples of the two countries would eventually have an impact on both countries. I would hope that the impact would be beneficial for the average Cuban citizen.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by markem

The article that Poker linked (thanks, Kelly!) attempts to paint a specific picture of Cuba in about 2000. It may or may not be accurate (suspect some of both). My read is that it is a "sway piece" written for a specific aim and audience, although the writer isn't quite up front about it. Lots of ways to read it, so lots of possible aims and/or audiences.

That all said, accurate information on the state of the Cuban economy, conditions for the average citizen, etc. is available. Lots of first hand reporting by the countries (nearly every one besides that US) that have relations with Cuba. The Canadian press has been pretty good about balanced reports, or so it seems to me.

My question would be this: are there any countries similar to Cuba (in terms of political structure, state of the citizens, etc.) with whom the US has relations or is in the process of seriously pursuing relations? I think that the answer is 'yes' and that begs a second question: why are normal relations with Cuba not an active part of US policy? Why is Cuba being treated differently?

Normalizing relations with China in the 70s could be seen as the driving force behind the modernization of China and the growth of the democracy movement there. Could the same happen with Cuba?

The one thing that I will toss out there is that if there was unrestricted travel to Cuba from the US, the amount of money flowing into the economy and the substantial contact between the peoples of the two countries would eventually have an impact on both countries. I would hope that the impact would be beneficial for the average Cuban citizen.

Here is your answer Mark assuming we believe what the article states.
4. The embargo causes intense suffering and many deaths. Wrong! In fact, almost no other country observes the embargo. Certainly, it causes problems, because America should be a closer and cheaper source of many things Cuba, which is an island of limited resources, regularly buys. But Mexico is just as close. Venezuela, a major oil producer, is now very friendly. Cuba makes most of its own medicines; I ask in every pharmacy I pass and they always tell me they fill virtually all prescriptions; and when I went to the Ministry of Health and asked for a list of actually critical medical needs, I got a very short list. Most importantly, the absence of any general suffering in Cuba is dramatically visible to the naked eye.

I love it.
I have to tell all my family and friends to stop sending all the medications they do. There is ample down there and we are getting bad information. Our relatives have been lying to us when they tell us they don't have novane for teeth extraction.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by the nub

For example, the idea of credit is absolutely foreign for most of them.

I could also address the rest of the misconceptions you perceive but this one caught my eye most.

From the Spanish dictionary, the same one we use to learn the language in Cuba:

Crédito
masculine noun
1. loan (préstamo)
(comprar algo) a crédito -> (to buy something) on credit
crédito bancario -> bank loan
crédito blando -> soft loan
crédito al consumo -> consumer credit
crédito a la exportación -> export credit
crédito hipotecario -> mortgage (loan)
crédito oficial -> official credit
crédito personal -> personal loan
2. credit (plazo de préstamo)
3. trust, belief (confianza)
digno de crédito -> trustworthy
dar crédito a algo -> to believe something
¡no doy crédito a mis oídos! -> I can't believe my ears!
4. standing, reputation (fama)
5. credit (en universidad)
6. (Cine)
títulos de crédito -> credits

Certainly they must know the concept if found in the Spanish dictionary.
They use it regularly along with their bartering. Many barter on "credit" and pay up their end of the deal when their care package from Cubans in the US arrives or when they are able to. They just don't have a platinum visa like you and I but as we well know with the Americans in debt with credit cards, not a hard concept to quickly learn.
As they do in mythbusters, hopefully this one has now been busted.

[kaisersozei]

Yes it was an interesting read.

So is the footnote on this guy's webpage:

*World: could mean several things, including planet, but the planet isn't apparently nearing its end. Here, world means a construct of substances and conditions (stuff and circumstance) draped over the planet, extending a little below and a little above the surface, like a slightly inflated baggy, without which the thin surface smear of living vegetable and animal scum called life on earth cannot survive. This construct (the scum bag, or eco-system) is not flimsy and can even self adjust considerably, so the fate of this or that individual species may not be critical at all, but the over-all construct is more vulnerable than the planet it clings to, its viability as a life host does ultimately depend on its proportionate make-up as a construct, and with one cancerous ingredient (the human race and the human encampment, including all its side effects) already way overgrown and still growing wildly out of proportion, it - the world - is very obviously crashing. It's not going to stop crashing without draconian measures being taken - which aren't being taken - and won't be taken - and probably should have been taken long ago. And since all of humanity is in total denial about this - deaf, blind, speechless, and immobile - it's a done deal.

Smoke another doobie, dude.

[the nub]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Certainly they must know the concept if found in the Spanish dictionary.
They use it regularly along with their bartering. Many barter on "credit" and pay up their end of the deal when their care package from Cubans in the US arrives or when they are able to. They just don't have a platinum visa like you and I but as we well know with the Americans in debt with credit cards, not a hard concept to quickly learn.
As they do in mythbusters, hopefully this one has now been busted.

You can spin it any way you want.

[alley00p]

Since I've never been to the ISOM, I don't have any personal facts that I can share. I know that quite a few of our Canadian BOTLs have traveled to Cuba and I'm sure that they could shed some light on the conditions they have seen, while visiting.

I've read a lot about Cuba, but I've never seen the island described in the glowing terms that the blogger put in their "report". I have to take that so called factual report, with a grain of salt.

I found the various comments, while reading this thread very interesting.

Thanks for the original post!

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by the nub

You can spin it any way you want.

Please explain to me what you mean by this.
You said something illogical by saying in a very authoritative and misleading manner, based on you having been there, that Cubans have no idea of the concept of credit.
I disproved you.
How am I spinning anything?
If what you meant is they have no concept of the use of a credit card, would likely agree with you. However, that is not what you said.
Here are your words again:
For example, the idea of credit is absolutely foreign for most of them

For you to say I can spin it any way I want is very hard for me to not find that comment resentful and that is why this topic sucks a big one each and every time it arises and each and every time someone with little knowledge of our plight, experiences, tribulations, tries to tell a Cuban what is and what isn't about what they live each day.
So many foolishly seem so good at explaining accidents to eye witnesses and yet don't seem to listen to or believe what the real witness says.
You or anyone else on this planet don't want to accept what this Cuban and many others tell you about the truth, fine! Don't. Your choice.
I can't change anyone's mind. I can't ask you accept what I have to say. I can only offer my viewpoint to counter what I see as erroneous ones.
I just ask you be courteous enough to me as a CA member and as a Cuban exile to not call it "My Spin".

[the nub]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Please explain to me what you mean by this.
You said something illogical by saying in a very authoritative and misleading manner, based on you having been there, that Cubans have no idea of the concept of credit.
I disproved you.
How am I spinning anything?
If what you meant is they have no concept of the use of a credit card, would likely agree with you. However, that is not what you said.
Here are your words again:
For example, the idea of credit is absolutely foreign for most of them

For you to say I can spin it any way I want is very hard for me to not find that comment resentful and that is why this topic sucks a big one each and every time it arises and each and every time someone with little knowledge of our plight, experiences, tribulations, tries to tell a Cuban what is and what isn't about what they live each day.
So many foolishly seem so good at explaining accidents to eye witnesses and yet don't seem to listen to or believe what the real witness says.
You or anyone else on this planet don't want to accept what this Cuban and many others tell you about the truth, fine! Don't. Your choice.
I can't change anyone's mind. I can't ask you accept what I have to say. I can only offer my viewpoint to counter what I see as erroneous ones.
I just ask you be courteous enough to me as a CA member and as a Cuban exile to not call it "My Spin".

I will consider being polite when you stop telling me what I did or did not witness and experience on my many trips to Havana. Essentially you are saying the experiences and conversations that I have had did not exist. You seem to think that I'm some sort of Castro sympathizer who holidays in Varadero. How did you disprove me? How do you know who I've talked to? How do you know where I've stayed? Did I say ALL or EVERY in any of my OPINIONS? You say what you say as fact. How can it be fact if there is more than one side?!??!?! I go to Havana to see, learn and experience- without bias mind you. I have no political agenda. My great grandfather was shipped to Cuba in the late 1800's. Chinese laborers were treated worse than the slaves. Of course you knew that. Or maybe you will say that didn't happen. Obviously you know everything and everyone MUST agree with you or else he is wrong. I believe you are the one being resentful.