6-Year old suspended - camping utensil?

[Volt]

Tried to stay away from posting on this thread, but here I go.... As one who works in both middle and high schools my thoughts.

First off, who cares what you and I did in school 35 - 40 years ago. Times have changed. BAck in high school I also carried knives and shotguns. There were more guns hanging in the backs of pickups during hunting season in the school parking lot than the whole police department had in totality. No one even thought of taking one out of an unlocked truck. The way we lived just has no meaning to todays students.

Were the rules over board in this case, who knows? We have kids from the 4th grade on up killing other kids in school or on the play grounds, google the news..... Parents are so cluless as to what there kids are doing and don't care to know. 2 jobs, got to get the Escalade to pull my boat to the lake, build the mansion, etc. I can't get even one of the 2 (if the kid has 2 parents) to come and see me to save their child from failing. The fix to problem #1, know what your children are doing and who they are doing it with. You may not be wealthier or happier knowing about your kids, but you will be able to have a greater affect on their lives. Trust belongs on a dollar bill, not for teens.

As to the disipline the student got, if that's what the rules called for by the education board/Superintendant (usually people you elected if you even showed up to vote that year). Principals do not set those types of policies. They must enforce them equally and dispassionantly or risk themselves and the school division being sued by the next parent whose child got different treatment. Or from the parent of the kid who gets cut/stabbed/shot etc. Almost every school I work in has a student agenda the kids must carry. Guess what, all the school rules and usually the infraction penalties are in it, ever thought about looking though it?

Why might there be so many hudlums in the schools? Getting back to "our" days in school, bad kids were either OSS or kicked out straight up. Not so much anymore. Kids in school = $$$$$$$. Either in free lunch money or what the state/Feds provide. So, every student on the rolls for that day equates to more funds for the school. End result, more undiserables are kept in school with your "good" kids, cuz I know your little Johnny wouldn't do those things (sick of hearing how their little angels would never start a fight).

I trust none of them and never turn my back for long in the room. My ears are always listening to what they are saying, most think I am only listening if they see me looking at them, not so. The more the hear the more I might be able to head off or stop. Average for a 1100 student body school is 3 rent a cops and at least 1 uniformed/armed city policeman. I work in schools from rual, "good" city schools to the the schools most parents given a choice would never put their kids in. The richer kids are just a tad smarter and their parents with better educations can afford better lawyers to keep their kids from getting records....

Before you pass judgement too quick on the rules of most any place - military, schools, etc make sure you have a good base to start from. I highly encourage you to volunteer a few weeks to get a feel for what the students are living in school these days. Do a little tutoring, open your eyes and ears and really see what their lives are about out of the house. Might open your eyes.....

Yea, I'm a bit cynical but it's real and I have seen/experienced this and more the past 10 years. Folks may not like it but that's what is going on. On the other hand, my and possibly not worth that much. Rest assured I do not teach english or typing, math is where I work

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Volt

Before you pass judgement too quick on the rules of most any place - military, schools, etc make sure you have a good base to start from. I highly encourage you to volunteer a few weeks to get a feel for what the students are living in school these days. Do a little tutoring, open your eyes and ears and really see what their lives are about out of the house. Might open your eyes.....

Yea, I'm a bit cynical but it's real and I have seen/experienced this and more the past 10 years. Folks may not like it but that's what is going on. On the other hand, my and possibly not worth that much. Rest assured I do not teach english or typing, math is where I work

Your view and a valid one from your perspective.
I come from a family of many, many teachers, all in the Newark, NJ school system. I know Newark very well and while I hold fond memories of growing up there, schools there are a challenge to say the least. So, I assure you I know where you are coming from.

However, that shouldn't harden an individual to the extent you take a kid who had no malice in mind as is evident now and throw him in a system with kids truly warranting reform. Was his intent known at the time? Of course not and as such, he should have been detained as he was and questioned along with the parents present.

I agree the school was simply following the rules. I don't hold them at fault. It is the rules and those that set them that I have issue with. Clearly, they too recognize they were truly nuts as they have since changed their rules totally as of last night and have reduced the punishment to a 3-5 day suspension.

[Volt]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Your view and a valid one from your perspective.
I come from a family of many, many teachers, all in the Newark, NJ school system. I know Newark very well and while I hold fond memories of growing up there, schools there are a challenge to say the least. So, I assure you I know where you are coming from.

However, that shouldn't harden an individual to the extent you take a kid who had no malice in mind as is evident now and throw him in a system with kids truly warranting reform. ....

And there in lies part of the problem:

1. We do not know what an individual is thinking when they made the decscion to bring xyz to school. Did he want to eat with it or did Johnny break his Transformer the day before and more dangerous thoughts are being had. We only know what they are saying once they are sitting in the hot seat. Rare is the kid who says, yea I brought moms zapper to school to get Suzi for dumping my food tray.

2. Or- even if he had no malice, listened pretty well at Scout camp on handle a knife but then gives it to Larry who wants to see it. Larry does damage to himself by accident to hisself or another individual. While intent is good and all that, bad $hit is known to happen with the best of intentions. A lot of things in my life I didn't mean to do, but still did the "time" for.

I'm not bright enough to have many answers but the one answer I do know that works most often and best is being involved. Either as the parent or the teacher. That's what you signed up to do, so do what is needed and expected of you.

Newwark can't be an easy place to try and make a difference, but I bet when they do it's huge.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Volt

And there in lies part of the problem:

1. We do not know what an individual is thinking when they made the decscion to bring xyz to school. Did he want to eat with it or did Johnny break his Transformer the day before and more dangerous thoughts are being had. We only know what they are saying once they are sitting in the hot seat. Rare is the kid who says, yea I brought moms zapper to school to get Suzi for dumping my food tray.

2. Or- even if he had no malice, listened pretty well at Scout camp on handle a knife but then gives it to Larry who wants to see it. Larry does damage to himself by accident to hisself or another individual. While intent is good and all that, bad $hit is known to happen with the best of intentions. A lot of things in my life I didn't mean to do, but still did the "time" for.

I'm not bright enough to have many answers but the one answer I do know that works most often and best is being involved. Either as the parent or the teacher. That's what you signed up to do, so do what is needed and expected of you.

Newwark can't be an easy place to try and make a difference, but I bet when they do it's huge.

All good points.
All understood.

Going back to that day, so now they have him, was caught, had tool/knife taken away, parents called, suspended. All reasonable actions.
By now, they know what they are dealing with as they have spent time with him.
Question that would still linger is does it still merit 45 days in reform school, for a first grader?
There are folks that argue prison is no place for reform for adults but let's go ahead and place a 6 yr old with no history of violence or issues at school and place him with the worse of his kind and expose him to that?
Wouldn't want it for my kid and would fight it to death.
If my child, would give him a good punishment at home to coincide with a reasonable suspension from school.
Regardless of how we dissect this, 45 days in reform school across the board, with no other thought process is wrong.
In the final analysis, they too knew it was wrong as they succumbed to the demand to change it.
As I have said throughout this thread, his behavior was unwarranted and deserved punishment but the initial punishment did not fit the crime.

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Volt

Or- even if he had no malice, listened pretty well at Scout camp on handle a knife but then gives it to Larry who wants to see it. Larry does damage to himself by accident to hisself or another individual. While intent is good and all that, bad $hit is known to happen with the best of intentions. A lot of things in my life I didn't mean to do, but still did the "time" for.

Good point! The knife brought by the cub scout could be lethal in another child's hands. Or what if the bully in school uses the knife on the cub scout... Bad day for everyone!!!

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Good point! The knife brought by the cub scout could be lethal in another child's hands. Or what if the bully in school uses the knife on the cub scout... Bad day for everyone!!!

Seems to me that the 6 year old bully in his class could use a chair, a pencil, a paintbrush, a ruler, or something else. In your example, the best solution is for the (most likely) Pansy running the classroom to deal with that kid first. (In restrospect, quite certainly, )

The 6 year old shouldn't have a knife at school, I don't think it is unreasonable to restrict 6 year olds at school from having knives.



teenagers? sure... why not.

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

Seems to me that the 6 year old bully in his class could use a chair, a pencil, a paintbrush, a ruler, or something else. In your example, the best solution is for the (most likely) Pansy running the classroom to deal with that kid first. (In restrospect, quite certainly, )

True that!!!

Unfortunately the "pansy" has to deal with parent's who are also (at times) bullies!!! I digress!!!