Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?

[Volt]

I said no. The fact that "others" have done the same/worse things is not a defense or excuse. He was well beyond the age of knowing what is right and wrong. He chose to break the rules, got caught, and got a punishment. I'd have some respect for him if he cowboy'ed up, went public, said he did it and accepted the punishment like a man.

I'm pretty much a black and white type person. Not saying I don't do wrong but when I do I take what ever comes. Nobody forces me to do "bad" things, momma didn't beat me, I didn't grow up in a "depressed" area, etc. A little personal responsibility and courage would go a long ways in today's society. If he really wants to be a "hero" or an example" - go on tour, tell the kids he screwed up, show respect and responsibility to the game and rules. That being a thug or rule breaker does have consequences.

[taltos]

I also voted no. Gambling is the one area that is unforgivable especially when you are betting on a game in which you are managing one of the teams. It is too easy to fix a game and destroy the credibility that Major League Baseball has worked hard to earn. If Joe Jackson is still banned while there is testimony that he was not involved in the Black Sox Scandal, I can see no credible reason to reverse Rose's ban. Maybe I would agree with the Old Timers Committee voting for his admission after his death so that he could never market himself as a Hall of Famer.

[elderboy02]

Put Pete in!

[SeanGAR]

Do you get into the HOF for playing achievements or for helping little old ladies cross the road?

Rose, a switch hitter, is the all-time Major League leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053)[1], and outs (10,328). He won three World Series rings, three batting titles, one Most Valuable Player Award, two Gold Gloves, the Rookie of the Year Award, and made 17 All-Star appearances at an unequaled five different positions (2B, LF, RF, 3B, and 1B).

He didn't fix games, he bet his team would win. According to the Dowd Report itself, "no evidence was discovered that Rose bet against the Reds."

He bet his team would win and he is being placed in with people who knowingly threw games for profit? That's ridiculous.

Rose lied about his gambling for years ... that is the real problem I see here. If he came out at the beginning and admitted he bet that his teams would win ... I can't see giving him a lifetime ban for that.

On February 4, 1991, the Hall of Fame voted to formally exclude individuals on the permanently ineligible list from being inducted into the Hall of Fame by way of the Baseball Writers Association of America vote. AFTER THE FACT.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by taltos

I also voted no. Gambling is the one area that is unforgivable especially when you are betting on a game in which you are managing one of the teams. It is too easy to fix a game and destroy the credibility that Major League Baseball has worked hard to earn. If Joe Jackson is still banned while there is testimony that he was not involved in the Black Sox Scandal, I can see no credible reason to reverse Rose's ban. Maybe I would agree with the Old Timers Committee voting for his admission after his death so that he could never market himself as a Hall of Famer.

Pete bet on his team to win.
He ain't the Black Sox.
He is a liar though. A bad one, too. And he ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
But it's the Hall of Fame, we're not putting him up for sainthood.

[Volt]

Originally Posted by shilala

Pete bet on his team to win.
He ain't the Black Sox.
He is a liar though. A bad one, too. And he ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
But it's the Hall of Fame, we're not putting him up for sainthood.

Scott, if I can politely disagree. The HOF is that, the place where people who are the above average people. The ones who had careers that shined for many reasons. He is not IMO. It is to me more than a place of stats. Who were the best that did the most for their sport? Staying with only Pete Rose, he did not.

At best - there will have to be a lot of agreeing to disagree on this man.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by gnukfu

And if they let even one of the known steroid users in then there is absolutely no excuse to keep him out.

Bingo.

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

He bet his team would win and he is being placed in with people who knowingly threw games for profit? That's ridiculous.

Bingo.

For the guys who keep bringing up how good his stats were, I respectfully give u this to chew on.

Rose was not just a player, he was a manager. And as a manager he bet not only on baseball, but on the very team he was managing. Did he bet on them to win, or to lose? We don't know the answer to that ,question. The fCt that the Dowd report concluded there was no evidence of his betting on them to lose doesn't mean he didn't do it. And I'd be willing to bet there's a lot that we don't know about given Fay Vincents being so adamant about not wanting him in. Bottom line is the HOF has players, managers and broadcasters in it, it's not llimited to on field accomplishments as a player, it includes people for their OVERALL contributions to the sport. You can't seperate Rose the played from Rose the manager, and what he did as a manager is so reprehensible and so outside the pale that to me he doesn't belong there

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Volt

Scott, if I can politely disagree. The HOF is that, the place where people who are the above average people. The ones who had careers that shined for many reasons. He is not IMO. It is to me more than a place of stats. Who were the best that did the most for their sport? Staying with only Pete Rose, he did not.

At best - there will have to be a lot of agreeing to disagree on this man.

Babe Ruth was an alcoholic who threw women down the stairs regularly.
I won't even get started on Ty Cobb.

[Volt]

Originally Posted by shilala

Babe Ruth was an alcoholic who threw women down the stairs regularly.
I won't even get started on Ty Cobb.

That's why I was trying to stay on topic with Pete Rose. Adding 1 more bad individual just because others are already there doesn't work for me.