What is a very good Espresso machine

[Swampper]

i don't want to be a smart-ass, but you answered your own question: 'Nothing over 500'.

The Rancilio Silvia starts at about $600 new, and then you still need a good burr grinder.

The Silvia can make good espresso shots, but it will not be as consistent as a machine with a heat exchanger group head. I upgraded from the Rancilio to a Nuova Simonelli Ocar, and the espresso is much better, and easier to get right. Oscars sell for a little under $1000.

Hope I didn't bum you out, but I don't want to see you waste you money on stuff that doesn't get the job done.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by Swampper

...The Rancilio Silvia starts at about $600 new, and then you still need a good burr grinder... ... I don't want to see you waste you money on stuff that doesn't get the job done.

Yeah.

It's hard not to be a buzzkill but good home espresso necessarily starts with a good grinder. A good espresso grinder, these days, begins around Rancilio Rocky territory or 350 American clams. Add to that the requisite tamper, knockbox, frothing pitcher(s), espresso/cappuccino demis and a brace of 2-oz shot glasses and that doesn't leave any scratch for an espresso machine and two pounds of Intelligensia Black Cat to practice on. Damn it, Jim! I'm a doctor not a coffee economist!

Most people start with 2nd tier gear and slowly shovel it out into the garage; a few get the bug and budget-upgrade (over and over). Geniuses (both of them) bought a great grinder and then, long after, decided a great home espresso machine was still a good idea. Good home espresso is a very expensive indulgence, whereas, excellent home coffee is not necessarily insanely expensive. If you wanna do someone you love a real favor, get the best grinder you can afford. Plus a 3-cup Bialetti mokapot. The grinder will perform for a lifetime of great coffee from drip to espresso. If the mokapot gets boring after a year or two or three (mine NEVER get boring, by the way), that leaves the door open for an espresso maker down the road. I swing with the Swampper here, 100%. The 600-clam Silvia is the least you'd want if you REALLY want home espresso to do you proud. Even at that, the nutjobs who care end up modding Silvias like some kind of Mars spacecraft...

Basically, there are fake espresso makers, cheap espresso makers and good espresso makers. The good ones are not cheap and the cheap ones are not good. The fake ones, however, ARE fake.

[floydpink]

I found with expresso equipment, if you don't do it right the first time, you will by the third or 4th try and have dumped more money than you needed to.

I'd love a Mazzer grinder and an Oscar machine, but do very nicely with a Baby Gaggia and a Gaggia MDF grinder and got the whole setup from Wholelattelove for somewhere around the price you are mentioning, maybe a little more.

i love the Baby Gaggia machine but can see a mazzer grinder in my future, in fact I am comparing prices now and am thinking of putting the MDF grinder up for sale or trade.

I agree the Silvia is a great machine and the bare minimum as far as quality goes , but somehow wound up with a Gaggia and don't regret it at all and pull great shots from it every day. In my narrow mind, it is a quality machine.

Speaking of expresso machines, I noticed something funny recently in little Havana, Miami.

Most of the little cafes have very modest decorations and tables and chairs, but i don't think I saw ONE that didn't have a Mazzer grinder and a Rancillio commercial expresso machine and many a really fancy orange juice squeezer.

Toss in the cigars down there, and it seemed as though they have thier priorities in order.