Quotes By Our Founding Fathers.

[dave]

" I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccesful rebellions indeed generally establish the incroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medecine necessary for the sound health of government."

-Thomas Jefferson


I, too, love Thomas Jefferson; however, his writings were so prolific and thoughtful, that his quotes are too often used in poor context to justify just about any position about anything. I generally try to avoid quoting him for just that reason. But, I do come back to this one from time to time when discussing various 'protest actions'; be it Occupiers, or Hands Uppers, etc. Even when I disagree with the message of a protest or rally, I tend to go out of my way to defend the rights of those who want to get their message out. I can't find the quote now, but I believe that Jefferson had another, similar quote about rebellion that seemed to almost forecast an insurrection every couple decades.....just to keep the powers in check....Sorta scary to think about nowadays.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by dave

" I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccesful rebellions indeed generally establish the incroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medecine necessary for the sound health of government."

-Thomas Jefferson


I, too, love Thomas Jefferson; however, his writings were so prolific and thoughtful, that his quotes are too often used in poor context to justify just about any position about anything. I generally try to avoid quoting him for just that reason. But, I do come back to this one from time to time when discussing various 'protest actions'; be it Occupiers, or Hands Uppers, etc. Even when I disagree with the message of a protest or rally, I tend to go out of my way to defend the rights of those who want to get their message out. I can't find the quote now, but I believe that Jefferson had another, similar quote about rebellion that seemed to almost forecast an insurrection every couple decades.....just to keep the powers in check....Sorta scary to think about nowadays.

Jefferson hated the Constitution and the Jay treaty because they exposed him to his creditors. A slave owner, he never freed more than a handful of them and then only his family members; and not even all of them. His free-spending ways in France and at home caused him to have to rent out his slaves in order to pay his debts. It seems that he only hated banks when it was time to pay them back. He also applauded the Terror in France as Robespierre threatened to kill both Thomas Paine and General Lafayette. I'm not a fan.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Jefferson hated the Constitution and the Jay treaty because they exposed him to his creditors. A slave owner, he never freed more than a handful of them and then only his family members; and not even all of them. His free-spending ways in France and at home caused him to have to rent out his slaves in order to pay his debts. It seems that he only hated banks when it was time to pay them back. He also applauded the Terror in France as Robespierre threatened to kill both Thomas Paine and General Lafayette. I'm not a fan.

Nobody in the US was happy with the Jay Treaty, mainly because Hamilton castrated it before Jay could even leverage Britain into the US's terms.

The "hated the Constitution" comment, I'm not sure what that alluded to. I just can't place use for it in your comment, brother. The results of the Jay treaty caused Jefferson to be exposed to his overseas creditors. Didn't matter, it certainly didn't ruin him.
It didn't much matter who liked the Jay Treaty, or why. It was high time to ease tensions between the colonies and Britain.

When Jefferson wrote the words "all men are equal" in the Declaration of Independence, he also stuffed a good bit of anti-slavery sentiment into the document. Words that absolutely set straight the fact that the States were headed away from slavery, and would be indebted to do so.
At the time, in his young life, it was how he felt and what he believed.
Later on he completely flip-flopped.
His anti-slavery writings dried up completely, and he wrote Washington with his infamous "4 percent" formula, which is regularly mischallenged because people are unread.
But he absolutely was pro-slavery, pro Monticello Industry, and pro making money.
All that was in direct opposition to his earlier leanings and writings on his own brand of Democracy, which I adore.

The younger man just got turned around, Darren.
Whether it was vice or luxury or whatever, I've never hunted up.
I'm okay with "people change". It's odd in his case that he goes so far from good to bad.
The fortunate thing is that it was the best of Thomas Jefferson that was present when our country needed him.

Oh, almost missed something.
Jefferson did not applaud the Terror in France. He applauded the outcome of the French Revolution, and what it meant to a free world.
Here are his own words directly prior to The Terror.
I don't get to a post-Terror letter to refute that as well, I just ran out of time.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by shilala

Nobody in the US was happy with the Jay Treaty, mainly because Hamilton castrated it before Jay could even leverage Britain into the US's terms.

The "hated the Constitution" comment, I'm not sure what that alluded to. I just can't place use for it in your comment, brother. The results of the Jay treaty caused Jefferson to be exposed to his overseas creditors. Didn't matter, it certainly didn't ruin him.
It didn't much matter who liked the Jay Treaty, or why. It was high time to ease tensions between the colonies and Britain.

When Jefferson wrote the words "all men are equal" in the Declaration of Independence, he also stuffed a good bit of anti-slavery sentiment into the document. Words that absolutely set straight the fact that the States were headed away from slavery, and would be indebted to do so.
At the time, in his young life, it was how he felt and what he believed.
Later on he completely flip-flopped.
His anti-slavery writings dried up completely, and he wrote Washington with his infamous "4 percent" formula, which is regularly mischallenged because people are unread.
But he absolutely was pro-slavery, pro Monticello Industry, and pro making money.
All that was in direct opposition to his earlier leanings and writings on his own brand of Democracy, which I adore.

The younger man just got turned around, Darren.
Whether it was vice or luxury or whatever, I've never hunted up.
I'm okay with "people change". It's odd in his case that he goes so far from good to bad.
The fortunate thing is that it was the best of Thomas Jefferson that was present when our country needed him.

Oh, almost missed something.
Jefferson did not applaud the Terror in France. He applauded the outcome of the French Revolution, and what it meant to a free world.
Here are his own words directly prior to The Terror.
I don't get to a post-Terror letter to refute that as well, I just ran out of time.

Actually, Hamilton was the main proponent of the Jay Treaty; it was his idea. What the French Revolution meant to the world is that revolutions are subject to counter-revolutions and are prone to devolve into despotism and tyranny; ours was a shining exception. After all, France ended up with an emperor instead of a proper republic for almost 100 years. As for Jefferson's disdain for the Constitution, I think it speaks to his flawed character. He whined about the amount of power it gave the Federal government but was quick to take advantage of it when it suited him. When he became President, he instructed his Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin, to "find the dirt" on Hamilton. He didn't because he couldn't; there was no "dirt". He may have written some pretty words but he never translated any of them into action; one need only look at how he treated his enslaved "family". Jefferson died in a hideous amount of debt, a debt his slaves were never able to work off. I generally dismiss Jefferson as a poser.