JoePa Statue coming down...

[oooo35980]

What evidence are we waiting for? A statement from Paterno perhaps? Are they planning a seance? One of his coaches raped little boys for 10 years... I can't imagine what you would need beyond that to take the guys statue down and cease all hero worship, but hey that's me.

[kelmac07]

Originally Posted by oooo35980

What evidence are we waiting for? A statement from Paterno perhaps? Are they planning a seance? One of his coaches raped little boys for 10 years... I can't imagine what you would need beyond that to take the guys statue down and cease all hero worship, but hey that's me.

The Freeh report was extremely biased. Its shows overwhelming information from the victims point of view (which I have no problem with, but it doesn't show Paternos side...only that of the decision made my those with the decision making authority). Paterno family investigation is ongoing as we speak. Will shed a different light on perspective based from JoePas side, showing that he clearly notified his chain of command (school officials) and that the final decision did not lie in his hands. Did he do what was required of him? Yes...he reported information to his superiors. Could he have done more??? Definitley....once the school administration didn't react, he should have taken it to authorities. JoePa did nothing criminal. He did not witness the crime, he was told about it. Should the janitors who saw the crime and did absolutely nothing face a form of penalty as well? What about the asstistant coach who went home and told his father...then waited a few days before letting Paterno know?

Was it Paterno who raped the boys? No...but here we go again, quick to judge Paterno based on media information. So to make sure I understand your point of view...since Paterno was the head football coach, actions of one his coaches were his fault? Since Sandusky was a pedofiler...Paterno must be involved? Come on man!!!

So Paternos 46 year tenure has come to this? IMHO, this is very sad. Not nearly as sad as the abuse the victims were subjected too. But I personally believe the blame cannot be layed on Paterno for the actions of a troubled man.

Compelling arguements can me made for both sides on this case. Bottom line up front is that the victims MUST be taken care of and Sandusky must pay for his crimes. In the wake of the aftermath of this tragic event, mudslinging, finger pointing and passing the buck are happening around the clock. While sad, the times we live in show that you can do 1,000 great things...but people will only remember you for the ONE mistake you make (Paterno for not going to the authorities).

This being the great nation that it is...everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Ogre]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

The Freeh report was extremely biased. Its shows overwhelming information from the victims point of view (which I have no problem with, but it doesn't show Paternos side...only that of the decision made my those with the decision making authority). Paterno family investigation is ongoing as we speak. Will shed a different light on perspective based from JoePas side, showing that he clearly notified his chain of command (school officials) and that the final decision did not lie in his hands. Did he do what was required of him? Yes...he reported information to his superiors. Could he have done more??? Definitley....once the school administration didn't react, he should have taken it to authorities. JoePa did nothing criminal. He did not witness the crime, he was told about it. Should the janitors who saw the crime and did absolutely nothing face a form of penalty as well?

Was it Paterno who raped the boys? No...but here we go again, quick to judge Paterno based on media information. So to make sure I understand your point of view...since Paterno was the head football coach, actions of one his coaches were his fault? Since Sandusky was a pedofiler...Paterno must be involved? Come on man!!!

So Paternos 46 year tenure has come to this? IMHO, this is very sad. Not nearly as sad as the abuse the victims were subjected too. But I personally believe the blame cannot be layed on Paterno for the actions of a troubled man.

Compelling arguements can me made for both sides on this case. Bottom line up front is that the victims MUST be taken care of and Sandusky must pay for his crimes. In the wake of the aftermath of this tragic event, mudslinging, finger pointing and passing the buck are happening around the clock. While sad, the times we live in show that you can do 1,000 great things...but people will only remember you for the ONE mistake you make.

This being the great nation that it is...everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Vary well said Mac.

[oooo35980]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

The Freeh report was extremely biased. Its shows overwhelming information from the victims point of view (which I have no problem with, but it doesn't show Paternos side...only that of the decision made my those with the decision making authority). Paterno family investigation is ongoing as we speak. Will shed a different light on perspective based from JoePas side, showing that he clearly notified his chain of command (school officials) and that the final decision did not lie in his hands. Did he do what was required of him? Yes...he reported information to his superiors. Could he have done more??? Definitley....once the school administration didn't react, he should have taken it to authorities. JoePa did nothing criminal. He did not witness the crime, he was told about it. Should the janitors who saw the crime and did absolutely nothing face a form of penalty as well? What about the asstistant coach who went home and told his father...then waited a few days before letting Paterno know?

Was it Paterno who raped the boys? No...but here we go again, quick to judge Paterno based on media information. So to make sure I understand your point of view...since Paterno was the head football coach, actions of one his coaches were his fault? Since Sandusky was a pedofiler...Paterno must be involved? Come on man!!!

So Paternos 46 year tenure has come to this? IMHO, this is very sad. Not nearly as sad as the abuse the victims were subjected too. But I personally believe the blame cannot be layed on Paterno for the actions of a troubled man.

Compelling arguements can me made for both sides on this case. Bottom line up front is that the victims MUST be taken care of and Sandusky must pay for his crimes. In the wake of the aftermath of this tragic event, mudslinging, finger pointing and passing the buck are happening around the clock. While sad, the times we live in show that you can do 1,000 great things...but people will only remember you for the ONE mistake you make (Paterno for not going to the authorities).

This being the great nation that it is...everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

YES! Absolutely, totally, YES! Paterno knew it was happening and did not stop it, whether he did everything legally required to cover his and his football program's ass makes no difference to me at all.

[PA_Rob]

I have very strong feelings about this case but also agree with the notion that final judgment - and dissemination of the complete truth - has not yet occurred. While much information is public, and the actions/involvement of many are quite clear, the fact remains that we are all still forming opinions without the complete picture.

HOWEVER, I have to also agree that, while criminal judgment should not be made at this time, enough information has come to light to make a moral judgment on a few things. Specifically, regardless of the details of their actions, the failure by men (and I use that term very lightly) to stand up and stop the rape of children.

The right choices in life are NEVER the easy choices but, invetibaly, we all face them and are put to the truest test of who we are. Many knew and collectively worked to hide what happened for a very long time. That man - and yes, the janitors, too - sacrificed his honor and deserves to have all of his life's good works stripped from history.

They cemented their legacies. Not the media, not the courts, not those children. They chose to be remembered forever as men who allowed children to be raped when they could have stopped it. Nothing else will ever matter.

This is one of those situations that is simply terrible in every possible way. The best we can possibly hope for is that we are all reminded of how important it is to live life with honor and do what is right, especially when the right thing is so hard...

[area51]

Originally Posted by oooo35980

YES! Absolutely, totally, YES! Paterno knew it was happening and did not stop it, whether he did everything legally required to cover his and his football program's ass makes no difference to me at all.

Agreed, whether he was doing it or knew it was being done is regardless. Paterno deserves to rot. There is no valid excuse for this and it makes me sick to my stomach.

[mash]

Originally Posted by area51

Agreed, whether he was doing it or knew it was being done is regardless. Paterno deserves to rot. There is no valid excuse for this and it makes me sick to my stomach.

Not only did he know about it, but after he retired, they awarded him and continued to give him access to the recreational facilities. Imagine if this was a religious institution and not a college football team.

You can bet that the people that made this decision know a lot more about the events than we do.

[bobarian]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

.... the blame cannot be layed on Paterno for the actions of a troubled man.

Excuse me????

[kelmac07]

Originally Posted by bobarian

Excuse me????

Sandusky was the troubled man...not Paterno.

[King James]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

Sandusky was the troubled man...not Paterno.

But could you also consider someone troubled for covering up what Sandusky did? Less troubled than Sandusky, sure, but troubled nonetheless.

[kelmac07]

Originally Posted by King James

But could you also consider someone troubled for covering up what Sandusky did? Less troubled than Sandusky, sure, but troubled nonetheless.

If he did in fact "cover it up"...I say yes, troubled for sure.

As stated in a previous post, the Freeh report is extremely biased. Paterno reported the action to his boss (athletic director) and the action taken after that was out of his hands (as far as decision making). Agreed, again above, that once he saw the administrators weren't taking action...he should have went to the authorities. Paterno didn't run Penn State University...those decisions should have been made by the Board of Trustees/President. Why are there names not being drug through the mud like Paternos is?

[King James]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

If he did in fact "cover it up"...I say yes, troubled for sure.

As stated in a previous post, the Freeh report is extremely biased. Paterno reported the action to his boss (athletic director) and the action taken after that was out of his hands (as far as decision making). Agreed, again above, that once he saw the administrators weren't taking action...he should have went to the authorities. Paterno didn't run Penn State University...those decisions should have been made by the Board of Trustees/President. Why are there names not being drug through the mud like Paternos is?

The others will be eventually, I'd guess, but probably not to the same extent as Paterno simply because Paterno is so well known. I disagree to some extent to the report being biased, but do agree that it won't be until after the civil trial that Paterno's name can really be damned or cleared. But, taking down the statue, at least for the mean time, is arguably a wise decision.

[oooo35980]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

If he did in fact "cover it up"...I say yes, troubled for sure.

As stated in a previous post, the Freeh report is extremely biased. Paterno reported the action to his boss (athletic director) and the action taken after that was out of his hands (as far as decision making). Agreed, again above, that once he saw the administrators weren't taking action...he should have went to the authorities. Paterno didn't run Penn State University...those decisions should have been made by the Board of Trustees/President. Why are there names not being drug through the mud like Paternos is?

The board of trustees aren't worshipped as Football Messiahs and there are no statues to take down.

The fact that he should have gone to the authorities and didn't I guess we agree on, I'm not sure if you feel this lack of reporting warrants his statue being removed, but I certainly do.

The bottom line that is important to me: He knew children were being raped and did not tirelessly work to put a stop to it using any and all means at his disposal but instead allowed it to continue. Whether he actively tried to cover it up is, once again, unimportant.

He knew about it, could have stopped it, and didn't even attempt to do so beyond some pass it off to someone else CYA bullcrap. Unless more evidence comes to light indicating he was on his way to the cops but was hit on the head and developed amnesia causing him to forget Sandusky was a child molester I really know all I need to be happy his statue is coming down.

[proguy747]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

Sandusky was the troubled man...not Paterno.

So if one of my employees comes to me and informs me that another employee is molesting your son kelmac. Don't you think it is a crime if I do not report that your son was being molested?

[kelmac07]

Originally Posted by proguy747

So if one of my employees comes to me and informs me that another employee is molesting your son kelmac. Don't you think it is a crime if I do not report that your son was being molested?

But Marc...Paterno did report the action to his boss (athletic director). If in fact he didn't report it to anyone, then yes he is guilty of a crime.

[proguy747]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

But Marc...Paterno did report the action to his boss (athletic director). If in fact he didn't report it to anyone, then yes he is guilty of a crime.

So if I reported a crime to my dad but did not call the police its OK? Shifting blame on such a terrible crime is bullshit. Then to allow sanduche to continue to run a children's charity. Give me a break!
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