Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by jonumberone

A coach is at home, get's drunk, and slaps his wife around.
A coach is involved in a deadly auto accident, in which he caused by speeding
A coach is arrested for DUI

Should any of these crimes cause a school to lose it's sports program? Why?

Your metaphor is too far apart from what happened....

A coach is a serial killer for years and years and the administration covers it up.... Yea, the NCAA needs to do something....

Just a little confused here.. So the Penn State Football program that allowed the rape of young boys in Penn State showers didn't break any ncaa rules?

[King James]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

Just a little confused here.. So the Penn State Football program that allowed the rape of young boys in Penn State showers didn't break any ncaa rules?

Breaking the law and breaking NCAA rules are two different things. So no, what Sandusky did, and what the university covered up, did not actually violate any NCAA rule.

If Sandusky violated NCAA rules and the university covered up those violations, then there would be a very strong case for lack of institutional control

Originally Posted by King James

Breaking the law and breaking NCAA rules are two different things. So no, what Sandusky did, and what the university covered up, did not actually violate any NCAA rule.

If Sandusky violated NCAA rules and the university covered up those violations, then there would be a very strong case for lack of institutional control

Ok I see. I don't follow any ncaa sports, so know nothing of what the ncaa is responsible for. It does makes sense to me though that if your Football program allows rape, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to play ncaa football

[jjirons69]

After reading about all the stuff SMU did to get the death penalty handed to them, it seems very unlikely the NCAA will evoke it here. It seems you have to continually screw up even after you're caught once or twice.

SMU Death Pentalty

I seriously think if PS comes out and denies itself scholarships/bowls games/etc., this will please the NCAA and they will find just punishment. SMU tried it, but they were way beyond we'll go to bed without supper when they tried to right the ship. Seems everyone at SMU had a hand in the corruption and the NCAA had to clear the slate and start them over. PS's "corruption" is more localized and now cleared from the picture. PS is a MUCH bigger entity and the ramifications of the death penalty would/could also damage the NCAA's money making system (which they don't really want).

[VTDragon]

The fact that Sandusky was able to continue his reprehensible acts for years after they first came to the attention of Penn State officials indicates an institutional desire to minimize damage to the allmighty football program to the detriment of the abused children. Based upon what I hear and see coming from Happy Valley these days,(eg.: alumni donations are actually up since the scandal came to light), that attitude -the desire to minimize damage to the football program- has not changed. For this reason alone, I vote for the death penalty. I would allow all current football players to transfer to another program without penalty, but for a minimum of four years there should be no football at Penn State. Yes, lots of people will be hurt and dissapointed by this. Too bad, lots of kids had their very lives ruined by this poor excuse for a human being and until the institution that allowed it to continue suffers some real penalty there is no reason to think that almighty football won't continue to do as it pleases in Happy Valley, to the detriment of whomever gets in its' way.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by VTDragon

The fact that Sandusky was able to continue his reprehensible acts for years after they first came to the attention of Penn State officials indicates an institutional desire to minimize damage to the allmighty football program to the detriment of the abused children. Based upon what I hear and see coming from Happy Valley these days,(eg.: alumni donations are actually up since the scandal came to light), that attitude -the desire to minimize damage to the football program- has not changed. For this reason alone, I vote for the death penalty. I would allow all current football players to transfer to another program without penalty, but for a minimum of four years there should be no football at Penn State. Yes, lots of people will be hurt and dissapointed by this. Too bad, lots of kids had their very lives ruined by this poor excuse for a human being and until the institution that allowed it to continue suffers some real penalty there is no reason to think that almighty football won't continue to do as it pleases in Happy Valley, to the detriment of whomever gets in its' way.

See, that's the unthinking, unbridled justice that's really the problem in this whole thing. You don't think those young men, who had nothing to do with this, and are set apart by YEARS from the infractions wouldn't suffer?
Did you consider that many would not even be able to play football at other schools, not be able to play this coming year, that their families could not afford such a "no penalty" move?
Who willl foot the bill for hauling all their furniture and stuff from PSU to the imaginary school they're being transferred to, provided they could even find a spot?
I'm not picking on you, brother. I just want people to think about the people we're affecting when we spout solutions like "let's just move the kids to another program".
Why in God's name should yet more people have to suffer? What exactly did these kids do that they should be punished?
What about all the men and women who make a living from that program? What about their kids? Who feeds them, and where do they go?

Here's the odd thing...
I actually agree with you, on some level. If PS Football could be erased without hundreds of innocents suffering, I'd be all over it. Just because JoePa is gone, I can't believe that 60 years of his way of thinking don't linger, and that worries the hell out of me.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

Just a little confused here.. So the Penn State Football program that allowed the rape of young boys in Penn State showers didn't break any ncaa rules?

No, technically they didn't. It's unprecedented, and there are no ncaa rules that say a football organization can't cover up child rape, or allow it, for that matter.
To me, this is kind of picking nits. On one hand, there are no ncaa rules, but to any living human being it's obvious that the spirit is there in ncaa rules under "total lack of control". Penn State has never had control of the football program, ever. Remember when they wanted to fire JoPa? (Late 80's?, early 90's?) He said no and he stayed on for lots more years. That does not remotely smell like the school had control, at least not to me. The NCAA did nothing then.

The question is really whether or not the ncaa should or needs to take action, or if it's beyond their hand, or if the law should handle it, as has already been done.
If they give the football program the death penalty, they gutshoot a major cash cow that could, if so managed, funnel a lot of money into programs for victims of violence, etc.
Penn State has already commissioned the Freeh report to the tune of over 6 million dollars to prove their guilt, and it appears they plan to do everything in their power to right this situation, not that all the money in the world can right it. (Insurance will cover victim lawsuits, but I want to see what they actually DO to make right.)
Everyone involved in this whole deal is gone, dead, in jail or headed for jail.
Dom made an excellent point, what sense is there in pissing on the rubble?

If anyone doesn't think Penn State Football has already been handed the death penalty, they're sadly mistaken. The whole school has been handed the death penalty. Paterno's legacy is shot. The entire school will carry this shame for decades. The odds of the football program ever gathering any real football talent in my lifetime is impossible. The alumni can't say where they went to school without someone looking at them with contempt, as if they had something to do with it. That's your standard "string them up" mob mentality at play. It's doing it's job persecuting the innocent as we speak, so there's solace there, vengeance is being served.

I took up for JoePa when this all came out the first go around, I truly believed he couldn't have possibly played a part in sweeping all this under the rug and that Spanier was behind it. I can remember when Spanier took the helm way back when, thinking he looked like a weasel. He turned out worse than I imagined. The fact that JoePa took part in covering for Sandusky so that his football program wouldn't suffer just absolutely makes me sick. More sad than sick, but sick nonetheless.
All the good that Joe did for so many years, all the people he loved and helped, all the devotion and time, all shot in the ass over an astronomically bad judgement call.
I've always considered how my life can change completely in a split second, the time it takes to pull a trigger. Joe pulled the trigger and changed many, many lives with this move.

Back to the NCAA and the death penalty for the football program...
Can someone explain the positive aspect of shutting down the program for me? I mean, I get the vengeance thing. Paterno's family is ruined, the campus and alum are scarred, everyone involved are locked up or will be soon. An untold number of people have already suffered as a result of these crimes, along with the victims. Where's the benefit? Who feels better? The kids who were raped? I'd think they'd want the people involved to answer for the crime perpetuated against them, not for completely unrelated people to suffer. Granted, I've not walked in their shoes, but that doesn't quite add up.

[King James]

Originally Posted by shilala

(Insurance will cover victim lawsuits, but I want to see what they actually DO to make right.)

It is quite likely that insurance won't cover Penn State in this case. It will come down to policy language, but it is quite likely that what they pay will be out of pocket. That is not to say that costs won't be passed on to others in the form of increased tuition, fees, etc., but I'd be surprised if the insurance companies give any $$

[shilala]

Originally Posted by King James

It is quite likely that insurance won't cover Penn State in this case. It will come down to policy language, but it is quite likely that what they pay will be out of pocket. That is not to say that costs won't be passed on to others in the form of increased tuition, fees, etc., but I'd be surprised if the insurance companies give any $$

They have multiple stacked policies. That wasn't a guess, that was words from Rodney Erickson.
You're right, though. The policy cost will be passed down, and they'll pay a lot more for insurance, but they're insulated from the lawsuits completely.

[King James]

Originally Posted by shilala

They have multiple stacked policies. That wasn't a guess, that was words from Rodney Erickson.

Those policies don't have any language absolving the insurance companies from paying for intentional acts or when there was knowledge? Can you point me to where you saw that insurance will cover?

[shilala]

Originally Posted by King James

Those policies don't have any language absolving the insurance companies from paying for intentional acts or when there was knowledge? Can you point me to where you saw that insurance will cover?

I just read the article a few minutes ago, Jim. I went back to look for it and I can't find it, Sorry. (I actually found it as I was looking for what year PS asked Joe to step down as coach, if you want to Google it. It was dumb luck you mentioned it shortly thereafter. )
Erickson also said the board called for an inquiry to make sure that they'll be covered in the future with adequate insurance now that all this has happened. That might prove a bit tougher.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by King James

It is quite likely that insurance won't cover Penn State in this case. It will come down to policy language

Jim,
You are likely right.
Most, if not all liability policies exclude intentional acts.

[jonumberone]

Originally Posted by E.J.

Your metaphor is too far apart from what happened....

A coach is a serial killer for years and years and the administration covers it up.... Yea, the NCAA needs to do something....

Why?
Assuming the Murders have come to light, as has the cover-up, where all involved in the crimes are being prosecuted by the law, Why does the NCAA need to do something?
If the NCAA acts who are they punishing?

To elaborate on your point.
If a Vice president of Goldman Sachs is a serial killer, and the CEO covers it up, does Goldman have to go out of business?
Should the S.E.C. get involved?
Or would the crime of murder and the cover-up be handled by the F.B.I. and the courts?