NFL's new safety policy

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

If Rothisberger is a top ten QB, and I'm not even willing to concede THAT, the only reason is most QBs in the league right now are about as good as Curtis Painter, in other words they blow.

The Steelers win in spite of him, not because of him.. He's more Mark Sanchez than he is Peyton Manning

Please list ten quarterbacks better than Ben Roethlisberger than are playing right now. This should be good.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Please list ten quarterbacks better than Ben Roethlisberger than are playing right now. This should be good.

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

I'd say fairly accurate

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

I'd say fairly accurate

I'd say people have a hard time separating Ben Roethlisberger the NFL quarterback from Ben Roethlisberger the human being.

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'd say people have a hard time separating Ben Roethlisberger the NFL quarterback from Ben Roethlisberger the human being.

Not really Stephen.

We all have our perceptions of what makes a great QB. I AM NOT a fan of game manager Qbs. Just not.

I've never, and doubt I'll ever, seen, or heard anyone say, "wow, what a great throw" when referring to Rothlisberger. To me he's just another version of Trent Dilfer or Mark Sanchez, or any one of a number of qbs who benefit from the team, particularly the defense around them. None of them are ever going to WIN a game for you, ttheyre r just asked not to lose the game for the team. to me,mthe former is what makes a great NFL qb

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Not really Stephen.

We all have our perceptions of what makes a great QB. I AM NOT a fan of game manager Qbs. Just not.

I've never, and doubt I'll ever, seen, or heard anyone say, "wow, what a great throw" when referring to Rothlisberger. To me he's just another version of Trent Dilfer or Mark Sanchez, or any one of a number of qbs who benefit from the team, particularly the defense around them. None of them are ever going to WIN a game for you, ttheyre r just asked not to lose the game for the team. to me,mthe former is what makes a great NFL qb

And to that I'll simply say to put on the game tape on of Super Bowl XLIII and fast forward to about three minutes to go in the game. Game managers don't drive 88 yards in two minutes to win the Super Bowl. While he no doubt benefits from having had a great defense nearly his entire career, I've watched on more than one occasion as he bailed them out. The game against the Packers in 2009 immediately comes to mind. When I see a completion percentage and YPA where they're at (both elite, and both good indicators of quarterback play), I'm sorry, I don't see a game manager.

[yachties23]

I absolutely agree with you 100 percent.

Ben is not a game manager. The first superbowl win over the seahawks, he was more a hindrence than help, in fact the refs were more helpful to the steelers that day. But in the second superbowl, he proved that he is a top notch qb.

One of my friends always asks me if you could have a quarterback for:
1 play
1 game
1 season
who would they be?

1 Play is Ben. he has the ability to extend plays, and take broken plays and turn them into huge gains.
1 Game, used to be Brady, could be Eli, its a toss up.. I think both guys give their teams chances to win every week.
1 Season Right now its between Rodgers and Brees. I mean Rodgers is on fire, but how could you possibly keep Brees out of that argument.


Anyways, I agree, Ben is easily in the top 10 QBs in the league. In his early years he had the benefit of having a stud D, and great running game. But look at the Steelers now. They are definitely a pass first team, and most of that falls on Ben.

Originally Posted by Stephen

And to that I'll simply say to put on the game tape on of Super Bowl XLIII and fast forward to about three minutes to go in the game. Game managers don't drive 88 yards in two minutes to win the Super Bowl. While he no doubt benefits from having had a great defense nearly his entire career, I've watched on more than one occasion as he bailed them out. The game against the Packers in 2009 immediately comes to mind. When I see a completion percentage and YPA where they're at (both elite, and both good indicators of quarterback play), I'm sorry, I don't see a game manager.

Originally Posted by Stephen

And to that I'll simply say to put on the game tape on of Super Bowl XLIII and fast forward to about three minutes to go in the game. Game managers don't drive 88 yards in two minutes to win the Super Bowl. While he no doubt benefits from having had a great defense nearly his entire career, I've watched on more than one occasion as he bailed them out. The game against the Packers in 2009 immediately comes to mind. When I see a completion percentage and YPA where they're at (both elite, and both good indicators of quarterback play), I'm sorry, I don't see a game manager.

If you really believe pointing to one or two games across the span of his career means he's not a game manager, I can't help you.

And I'm not even saying he wasn't being a game manager in those two games anyway.

Bottom line, like I said, you'll never find anybody talking about him making graeat throws, or how he won a game for the team.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'd say people have a hard time separating Ben Roethlisberger the NFL quarterback from Ben Roethlisberger the human being.

I'd say people have a tough time separating the hype and how much of a 'tough guy' he is, from his skill as a QB vs. managing games. Hell, Tebow wins games, Sanchez wins games, come thru in the clutch, but I am sure that you won't concede that either of them are better or even equivalent QB's in your eyes. That and Steeler fandom probably vaults him ahead of a few guys too.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

The fact that you list two rookie quarterbacks (and Tebow jokingly) that have done jack squat in this league tells me all I need to know. Probably best to save that two cents to put towards buying yourself a clue.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The fact that you list two rookie quarterbacks (and Tebow jokingly) that have done jack squat in this league tells me all I need to know. Probably best to save that two cents to put towards buying yourself a clue.

There are 14 QB's on the list, take out the two rookies and Tebow and there are still 11 in front, remove the two on IR and then he falls in at #10.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

There are 14 QB's on the list, take out the two rookies and Tebow and there are still 11 in front, remove the two on IR and then he falls in at #10.

Ok, I'll try to break your list down objectively (and with a lot less venom as last time; sorry about that):

I'll gladly concede that Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and a healthy Peyton Manning are better quarterbacks than Roethlisberger. Since you conceded that Roethlisberger is better than the two rookies (Newton/Dalton) and Tewbow, that leaves us with seven quarterbacks:

1. Eli Manning: The only other quarterback left on this list with a Super Bowl ring (let alone appearance), so we'll start with him. Ben's YPA (yards per attempt) is a full yard higher for his career than Eli's, which explains their incredibly close career passing yards (26,028 for Ben, 26,751 for Eli) in spite of Eli attempting nearly 600 more passes. Now, Eli may have more touchdown passes (181-165), but he also has more interceptions (125-97). So in short, Ben doesn't attempt as many passes as Eli, but when he does, he's much more effective (and takes better care of the ball). I'd also be remiss if I failed to mention that Manning piggy-backed his defense en route to a Super Bowl ring, and hasn't won a playoff game before or since that season.

2. Philip Rivers: In my opinion the best current starting quarterback without a ring. Career averages are similiar (Rivers: 241 YPG, 8.0 YPA, 95.8 QBR to Roethlisberger: 232 YPG, 8.1 YPA, 92.9 QBR). Rivers has a better TD/Int ratio as well. Rivers has turtled in the playoffs, however, and has zero hardware to show for having some of the most complete teams in the NFL. Similar numbers + three trips to the Super Bowl gives Roethlisberger the edge.

3. Matt Ryan: Career completion %, YPA, YPG and QBR are nowhere near Roethlisberger's. The only thing in Ryan's favor would be his TD/INT ratio. With literally no playoff success to point to, Ryan doesn't make the cut.

4. Tony Romo: Tony's always been a decent fantasy football quarterback, posting solid stats. The nice thing about having him is that you don't have to worry about him disappearing in the playoffs, if he can manage to get there. Did I mention he's also two years older than Roethlisberger?

5. Joe Flacco: There's nothing that shows in the stats colum (and from watching both of them) that Flacco is in the same league as Roethlisberger. He has neither the individual accolades or team success to compare with Roethlisberger.

6. Matt Stafford: While he's managed to stay healthy for 14 straight games and put together a nice season, I'd like to see a bit of a track record before vaulting him above Roethlisberger.

7. Matt Schaub: YPA and QBR are similar, while having a slightly better completion % and slightly worse TD/INT ratio. Never been to the playoffs, and has a career winning % below .500. Ironically enough, this is the first year the Texans will be making the playoffs, and it'll be because of their defense and running game.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

Ben is ranked 6th in the NFL. Flacco is ranked 21st. Ben had a 126 passer rating last week with a broken thumb and took the game with a grade 2 high ankle sprain.
We all have our opinions, but you gotta give the raper his due.
I've never considered him an elite QB, but his arm and game head has come along leaps and bounds over the last four years. And he wins. He plays hurt and takes games away.
Rivers sits down if he gets a bruise. He's set himself down a number of times over the years.
Thank God Tebow got a wink or I'd have you institutionalized. Lol

[yachties23]

Rivers has been hurt all season, and played with a serious knee injury in the play offs a few years back. He has also won despite having offensive weapons hurt, and the worst coach in the NFL. Of the three QBs drafted that season, hes the only one without a superbowl, but may be the most talented. I'd take any of the three, but right now, I think that Ben would need the best supporting cast.

Originally Posted by shilala

Ben is ranked 6th in the NFL. Flacco is ranked 21st. Ben had a 126 passer rating last week with a broken thumb and took the game with a grade 2 high ankle sprain.
We all have our opinions, but you gotta give the raper his due.
I've never considered him an elite QB, but his arm and game head has come along leaps and bounds over the last four years. And he wins. He plays hurt and takes games away.
Rivers sits down if he gets a bruise. He's set himself down a number of times over the years.
Thank God Tebow got a wink or I'd have you institutionalized. Lol

[shilala]

Originally Posted by yachties23

Rivers has been hurt all season, and played with a serious knee injury in the play offs a few years back. He has also won despite having offensive weapons hurt, and the worst coach in the NFL. Of the three QBs drafted that season, hes the only one without a superbowl, but may be the most talented. I'd take any of the three, but right now, I think that Ben would need the best supporting cast.

Ya know, another BIG positive for Phillip Rivers these days is that he's grown up immensely over the last few years. I don't see the big baby, throwing tantrums, 10-year-old pouty face, kicking stuff on the sidelines, yelling at players and coaches like I used to see.
All that lack of composure held him back. It used to be I couldn't even stand to listen to him after the games because he was so full of himself. He's really, truly changed and done a 180.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's Phillip River's fault all that talent was wasted for all those years when he had an excellent supporting cast. Now he's got an iffy-ish supporting cast and he's doing well.
If the Chargers make some more moves this off-season, they have a huge opportunity to exploit Phillip Rivers at the pinnacle of his career. I hope they get it done.

And believe it or not, I thought of him this way before he carved up the Ravens last night and did me and my Steelers a HUGE solid.
Now it's up to the Steelers to hang on to this early Christmas present.