The perfect shot.......

floydpink · 08-17-2011, 08:23 AM

Some say the 5 and 5 rule is necessary for a perfect shot;

Drink within 5 days of roasting, and brew within 5 minutes of grinding.

I am a bit more relaxed but won't push it beyond 10/10.

The grinder is the heart of the whole operation and must not be underestimated.

I personally tend to roast into second crack and like a dark roast for my espresso.

I have tried lots of s/o (single origin) beans as well as lots of blends, but seem to always come back to the South and Central American ones for my go to beans.

08-17-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floydpink

The grinder is the heart of the whole operation and must not be underestimated.

Quote for truth.

When my faithful "Barista" gave up the ghost after five years of heavy use at my hands, I purchased a QuickMill Silvano. Very nice Italina made machine...copper boiler, heat exchanger for steam, PID to control the boiler, E61 group head...WAAAAY too much money, but a stellar little home machine.

And I got frustrated. Ohhhhhh so frustrated. My cruddy little burr grinder wasn't able to get the grind size right to consistently get good extraction on a non-pressurized portafilter.

So then I went out and spent half the price of the machine on a Baratza Vario grinder...and suddenly all was right in the world. By just twiddling the micro adjust lever on the machine, I can dial the grind so that my double pull extracts in exactly 23 seconds. Or 25 seconds. Or 29 seconds. You can match the length of time that you pull to the flavour profile of the bean wonderfully.

So yes...the grinder is important.

floydpink · 08-18-2011, 08:10 AM

My road was similar when I decided I liked this hobby enough to invest in a way too expensive Brasilia Mini Classic with the E61 brew group and all kinds of new buttons and stuff.

I found out my old Gaggia MDF grinder wasn't up for the job and blew way too much more money on a Macap M4 stepless grinder.

Perfect shots are very predictable now.

germantown rob · 08-20-2011, 11:54 AM

I have always heard it as the rule of 15s

15 days past roast and coffee is stale
15 minutes past grind and coffee is stale
15 months for greens and it goes stale

I take these as a rule of thumb and there is always exceptions. I have many examples of beans that are only getting good for espresso 5-7 days past roast and I won't touch them before this. Robusta beans for blending almost always need far more resting time, sometimes 15-30 days before they mellow enough to use.

Sweet Marias is full of good roasting info plus a great source for beans, Tom's description are very nice for making decisions on what beans you may like to try and what is good for espresso.

As stated the grinder is an equal part of the equation of machine, beans, and barista skills...the 4Ms. I second the recommendation of a Baratza Vario, it ranks in grind quality of grinders that cost double or triple the cost.

When roasting for espresso I like 4-5min before finishing the roast after 1st crack has started and for drip I like 2.5-3.5 min. I rarely roast into 2nd crack anymore, I believe that many prefer darker roasts for espresso is because they can not achieve a long enough time after first crack to mellow out the acidity of the roast with out going into 2nd crack. Anything beyond a few snaps of 2nd crack is taking on roast flavor and roasting out the origins flavor the darker you go. However your taste is all that is important and that is what makes home roasting so great.

08-17-2011, 08:23 AM	#1
floydpink crazy diamond Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Pete Location: Orlando Posts: 1,955 Trading: (17)	Re: The perfect shot....... Some say the 5 and 5 rule is necessary for a perfect shot; Drink within 5 days of roasting, and brew within 5 minutes of grinding. I am a bit more relaxed but won't push it beyond 10/10. The grinder is the heart of the whole operation and must not be underestimated. I personally tend to roast into second crack and like a dark roast for my espresso. I have tried lots of s/o (single origin) beans as well as lots of blends, but seem to always come back to the South and Central American ones for my go to beans. __________________ "If we weren't all crazy we would go insane"

08-18-2011, 08:10 AM	#3
floydpink crazy diamond Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Pete Location: Orlando Posts: 1,955 Trading: (17)	Re: The perfect shot....... My road was similar when I decided I liked this hobby enough to invest in a way too expensive Brasilia Mini Classic with the E61 brew group and all kinds of new buttons and stuff. I found out my old Gaggia MDF grinder wasn't up for the job and blew way too much more money on a Macap M4 stepless grinder. Perfect shots are very predictable now. __________________ "If we weren't all crazy we would go insane"

08-20-2011, 11:54 AM	#4
germantown rob Still not Adjusted Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Rob Location: Philadelphia Posts: 330 Trading: (1)	Re: The perfect shot....... I have always heard it as the rule of 15s 15 days past roast and coffee is stale 15 minutes past grind and coffee is stale 15 months for greens and it goes stale I take these as a rule of thumb and there is always exceptions. I have many examples of beans that are only getting good for espresso 5-7 days past roast and I won't touch them before this. Robusta beans for blending almost always need far more resting time, sometimes 15-30 days before they mellow enough to use. Sweet Marias is full of good roasting info plus a great source for beans, Tom's description are very nice for making decisions on what beans you may like to try and what is good for espresso. As stated the grinder is an equal part of the equation of machine, beans, and barista skills...the 4Ms. I second the recommendation of a Baratza Vario, it ranks in grind quality of grinders that cost double or triple the cost. When roasting for espresso I like 4-5min before finishing the roast after 1st crack has started and for drip I like 2.5-3.5 min. I rarely roast into 2nd crack anymore, I believe that many prefer darker roasts for espresso is because they can not achieve a long enough time after first crack to mellow out the acidity of the roast with out going into 2nd crack. Anything beyond a few snaps of 2nd crack is taking on roast flavor and roasting out the origins flavor the darker you go. However your taste is all that is important and that is what makes home roasting so great.