Bulging Discs in back?

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by mash

I would be careful about the comparison to Derrick Thomas. He died because he had a spinal cord injury and was totally immobilized, he had a fatal blood clot in his lung. This likely had nothing to do with who operated on him.

Call it what you want.
My understanding is it was a post op complication.
My point is it was a surgery done by one of the best in the country in dealing with paralysis and he died.
Point being surgery is serious chit and for me personally, I am proof one can have a relatively normal life with two herniations and impingement and no surgery.
Point also is any good doctor will do all conservative treatment possible for common bulges and not immediately recommend or concur with what is always the danger of invasive surgery, particularly to the spine, housing such intricate nerves.
Surgery on the back is the option of very last resort. Bulges can and do improve. As I have said, weight is key and very often overlooked and ignored as a cause and cure.

[Blueface]

Derrick Thomas

Post op blod clot as was being moved from bed to wheelchair.

Read the part where Dr. Barth Green (whom I was going to be operated by) talks about the successes and failures of surgeries.
It starts with "we do a great........."

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/10/sp...=derrickthomas

[mash]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Call it what you want.
My understanding is it was a post op complication.
My point is it was a surgery done by one of the best in the country in dealing with paralysis and he died.
Point being surgery is serious chit and for me personally, I am proof one can have a relatively normal life with two herniations and impingement and no surgery.
Point also is any good doctor will do all conservative treatment possible for common bulges and not immediately recommend or concur with what is always the danger of invasive surgery, particularly to the spine, housing such intricate nerves.
Surgery on the back is the option of very last resort. Bulges can and do improve. As I have said, weight is key and very often overlooked and ignored as a cause and cure.

Agreed, surgery is the last resort.
I am a doctor with Worker's Compensation, and my brother is a rehab medicine doc. Both of us see back surgery failures.
My point about Derrick Thomas is this- to highlight what happened to him as a risk of back surgery is not applicable to someone who isn't immoblized. That is the biggest risk factor for pulmonary embolism.
If I cross a street, I may get hit by a car. The chances of that happening are different if I cross a side street compared to a freeway. So, to use his case as an argument about why someone shouldn't have back surgery needs to be put into context.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by mash

Agreed, surgery is the last resort.
I am a doctor with Worker's Compensation, and my brother is a rehab medicine doc. Both of us see back surgery failures.
My point about Derrick Thomas is this- to highlight what happened to him as a risk of back surgery is not applicable to someone who isn't immoblized. That is the biggest risk factor for pulmonary embolism.
If I cross a street, I may get hit by a car. The chances of that happening are different if I cross a side street compared to a freeway. So, to use his case as an argument about why someone shouldn't have back surgery needs to be put into context.

Well, let's see.
A doctor I am not but let's determine how bad my Derrick Thomas example truly is.

He died of a blood clot, post operative.

As a doctor, please clarify for me.
Is there a potential risk for terminal blood clots post surgeries?
Is this potential recently being determined to be more pervasive than previously thought?

I believe you will have to agree there is.

If there is, and Derrick Thomas got one post surgery to attempt to repair his post traumatic paralysis, how is my analogy so far off?

[mash]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Well, let's see.
A doctor I am not but let's determine how bad my Derrick Thomas example truly is.

He died of a blood clot, post operative.

As a doctor, please clarify for me.
Is there a potential risk for terminal blood clots post surgeries?
Is this potential recently being determined to be more pervasive than previously thought?

I believe you will have to agree there is.

If there is, and Derrick Thomas got one post surgery to attempt to repair his post traumatic paralysis, how is my analogy so far off?

In answer to your questions:

No, I don't agree that "this potential recently being determined to be more pervasive than previously thought". By whom?

Your analogy is very far off. Thomas had a spinal cord decompression, and then had his spinal column fixed with hardware and a bone graft from his hip. All of this time, he was totally immoblized. You are attributing his risk of pulmonary embolism to the general case where a non-paralyzed person gets a discectomy as a rationale to not have surgery. Simply wrong.
I'm with you on not having surgery unless it is the only option, this is just not a valid argument.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by mash

In answer to your questions:

No, I don't agree that "this potential recently being determined to be more pervasive than previously thought". By whom?

Your analogy is very far off. Thomas had a spinal cord decompression, and then had his spinal column fixed with hardware and a bone graft from his hip. All of this time, he was totally immoblized. You are attributing his risk of pulmonary embolism to the general case where a non-paralyzed person gets a discectomy as a rationale to not have surgery. Simply wrong.
I'm with you on not having surgery unless it is the only option, this is just not a valid argument.

I respect your opinion.
I'll remain with mine.
Not the first time I have disagreed with a doctor.

As to where I got the prevalence of clots post op, tons of material on that.
In fact, it is even alluded to in the article I attached, which I candidly found post my post. I didn't type this. Someone else did.

"Nothing has been confirmed but the coroner did tell us that he thinks Mia died from a blood clot related to the knee surgery," she adds. "We are just now finding this out that this is all too common and people don't know the risks of arthroscopic surgery. They need to be made aware of the risks."

And to think this was knee surgery. Not a doctor but would bet the spine is a tad more complicated.
At least we agree on the surgery part which was my main point.
Enough about DT as far as I am concerned.
On with the thread.

[Blueface]

I didn't write this either.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5084589_si...r-surgery.html

Or this.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/blood...r-surgery.html

Or this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...-research.html

Or this.

http://www.webmd.com/dvt/news/200912...clot-risk-high

Or this.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...at_should.html

[Blueface]

I know I said enough of DT BUT.......

Here is what one of the article says.
Like most things, developing a blood clot after surgery is more common with age. The chances become higher for individuals over 40 years of age. If you are over 40 and are anticipating a surgery you must be aware of the symptoms of a blood clot so you can contact your doctor right away.

First, a lot of clots form in the thigh or lower leg. Your leg may begin to experience pain and sudden swelling. The leg can begin to turn a reddish-blue color. Your leg may also begin to feel warm.

Second, Clots can break loose and travel back to your lungs. If it blocks the flow of blood to your lungs you could suffer a pulmonary embolism. This is serious and can often cause sudden death. Contact your doctor immediately if you find yourself suffering from any of the following symptoms: a stabbing chest pain, shortness of breath, a rapid heart beat, dizziness, fainting, profuse sweating, anxiety, coughs for no reason, or coughing up blood.

Now isn't this what happened to DT, it went to his lungs?
Didn't he have surgery and didn't he have a pulmonary embolism?
I know immobilized is key more often but not always.
Aren't you somewhat immobilized post serious invasive back surgery?
If it can happen from a flight on a plane, it cant from any surgery confining you to bed, even if just days?

On to med school for me so I can better debate this.