NFL

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

The Marlins have a good team. In fact they usually are competitive, in a difficult division, so whats your point?

You said:

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

Which isn't a problem for most teams. What's funny is that the teams that are drawing bad crowds have good teams

And I responded:

Originally Posted by Stephen

*cough*Marlins*cough*

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

And your roster argument doesn't stack up. As said above, elite MLB players make much more than their NFL counterparts.

When did I say otherwise? I simply wondered aloud (or more specifically at the end of a post rhetorically) how the average MLB salary would stack up against the top 25 players of an NFL squad.

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

Plus, unlike the NFL, there are three tiers of minor leagues players usually go through to get to the big show. A,AA, and AAA all have a full roster of players and coaches, and while they don't make the major league minimum they do earn a decent salary. When you factor in that cost, the operating overhead in terms of payroll is much higher than any NFL team, which just pulls talent straight from college. Plus these days most teams own and operate camps in other countries to scout talent.

Completely irrelevant to a MLB players average salary.

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

So the fact that baseball players are so much better compensated is indeed quite impressive when you think about it

Not really. But we'll have to agree to disagree.

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by Stephen

You said:

And I responded:


When did I say otherwise? I simply wondered aloud (or more specifically at the end of a post rhetorically) how the average MLB salary would stack up against the top 25 players of an NFL squad.

Completely irrelevant to a MLB players average salary.

Not really. But we'll have to agree to disagree.

I thought you were implying the Marlins were bad. And the minor leagues are relevant as they are part of the MLB. If your not impressed by how well compensated baseball players are based on all the additional overhead MLB teams face that NFLs don't , that's your opinion. But the fact remains that baseball is very profitable, compensates it's players better than the NFL and is thriving despite all the setbacks of the last 20 years.

[Stephen]

Just for kicks, I looked up the average starting salary for a MLB player here, and picked a random team (New Orleans Saints; found here) and added up the salaries of the top 25 players. Came to $99.59007 million (only added it up once, could be incorrect). Divided that by 25, and got $3.98 million. I'm positive it's different for different teams, just wanted to throw that out there.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Just for kicks, I looked up the average starting salary for a MLB player here, and picked a random team (New Orleans Saints; found here) and added up the salaries of the top 25 players. Came to $99.59007 million (only added it up once, could be incorrect). Divided that by 25, and got $3.98 million. I'm positive it's different for different teams, just wanted to throw that out there.

Try your theory with the Yankees vs. Packers.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Try your theory with the Yankees vs. Packers.

Well since the top four paid players in all of baseball play for the Yankees, me thinks that would skew the bell curve some.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Well since the top four paid players in all of baseball play for the Yankees, me thinks that would skew the bell curve some.

Kind of like including the Pirates in an average when the base salaries for NFL players is severely more slotted than baseball. Minimum wage isn't close, and top end is even more glaring. Also, this doesn't even factor that MLB contracts are guaranteed for the life of the contract, NFL salaries are terminated on a whim with not a single dollar spent after a player is released or injured.

[Stephen]

Smitty's initial point that I took interest in.

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

Look how much more baseball players make than footballs on average, pretty impressive numbers.

My reply:

Originally Posted by Stephen

That's because football rosters are twice the size of baseball rosters. I'd counter that the top 25 paid players on each NFL squad would be a higher average than the average salary of an MLB player, but it doesn't add anything to the discussion so I'll leave well enough alone...

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Kind of like including the Pirates in an average when the base salaries for NFL players is severely more slotted than baseball. Minimum wage isn't close, and top end is even more glaring. Also, this doesn't even factor that MLB contracts are guaranteed for the life of the contract, NFL salaries are terminated on a whim with not a single dollar spent after a player is released or injured.

I'm not arguing that MLB doesn't have a higher floor or a higher ceiling.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm not arguing that MLB doesn't have a higher floor or a higher ceiling.

I understand, but the average salary is hardly as cut and dry as you make it/believe. Average career, total contract, injury risk, certain teams payroll etc. all make the 'average salary' much cloudier than it is in regard internet searchable numbers. NFL teams have relatively similar payrolls, MLB teams vary so much and teams all spend their money differently.

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Smitty's initial point that I took interest in.

My reply:


I'm not arguing that MLB doesn't have a higher floor or a higher ceiling.

Ah, but your missing my point about the minors. Aside from the 25 man roster that, each MLB team is also responsible for three other 25 man roster, so every MLB team has far more players to manage on a whole.

And my Yankees/Cubs posts was the second most ridiculous thing posted. Someone chimed in earlier with an ever so insightful comment that no one watched baseball anymore, figured I might as well state something as ridiculous while the thread remained civil

As far as the salary talks, it's just a point to show that the sport is doing well. The MLB operates much differently than the NFL, the fact that they are still able to be successful without having to resort to the NFLs brand of sports socialism is a pretty worthy achievement since most other sports in this country seem to be going down that road unfortunately. All sports are a business and they should operate like any other business in this country imho. If a team or league can't cut it, it should fail

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Just for kicks, I looked up the average starting salary for a MLB player here, and picked a random team (New Orleans Saints; found here) and added up the salaries of the top 25 players. Came to $99.59007 million (only added it up once, could be incorrect). Divided that by 25, and got $3.98 million. I'm positive it's different for different teams, just wanted to throw that out there.

Forgot to include the link for the Saints salary; sorry.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Forgot to include the link for the Saints salary; sorry.

Your link for the Saints includes their signing bonuses, which are sometimes prorated and included as roster bonuses that can be lost if a player is cut. It also includes 61 players instead of the roster of 53. For the full 61 players, assuming they made their base salary, which at least 8 of them didn't, the average is ~1.152 Million. Top 25 players average salary ~$2.012 million. If you add the signing bonuses, roster bonuses and incentives that may or may not have been reached assuming a player stays healthy, and doesn't get cut, yes, the salaries appear to be close. But look a little deeper and it is less than a third of the money on average for salary vs. salary.

Edit: Also of note, the third 'best' player on the Saints makes about the average of any MLB player. Drew Brees is arguably one of the top 5 QB's in the game, the face of a franchise, and perhaps the league and makes about $1 million more than the average MLB baseball player.

[Bruins Fan]

If a baseball player signs a three year three million dollar contract,he is going to get all his money.
If an NFL player signs the same deal he may get cut and get nowhere near what he signed for.
The NFL screws players all the time.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Your link for the Saints includes their signing bonuses, which are sometimes prorated and included as roster bonuses that can be lost if a player is cut.

Which isn't applicable to these numbers.

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

It also includes 61 players instead of the roster of 53. For the full 61 players, assuming they made their base salary, which at least 8 of them didn't, the average is ~1.152 Million. Top 25 players average salary ~$2.012 million. If you add the signing bonuses, roster bonuses and incentives that may or may not have been reached assuming a player stays healthy, and doesn't get cut, yes, the salaries appear to be close.

Took you awhile, but you finally got there.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Which isn't applicable to these numbers.

Took you awhile, but you finally got there.

You did get there. Average salaries for MLB players is 3 times as high as NFL players.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

You did get there. Average salaries for MLB players is 3 times as high as NFL players.

Again, that's not what I'm arguing. I know that the average baseball player makes more than the average football player. Where have I ever said otherwise?

[yourchoice]

I'm not sure who said it where, and I hope I have am responding in context...but as for minor league baseball, those players (after receiving their signing bonus) don't get paid all that well. And, they do sell tickets, concessions, parking, etc. at the venues. I would guess most minor league teams are really close to break even - or even making a few dollars.

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by yourchoice

I'm not sure who said it where, and I hope I have am responding in context...but as for minor league baseball, those players (after receiving their signing bonus) don't get paid all that well. And, they do sell tickets, concessions, parking, etc. at the venues. I would guess most minor league teams are really close to break even - or even making a few dollars.

Single A ball gets paid around 20K, AA and AAA between 30-35k. The contracts are open to negotiation after a year, they don't make anywhere near the 400k MLB minimum but it's also tough to peg a definite salary range. Plus the trend in baseball is changing, quite a few teams are locking up young players early, skewing the salaries a bit. I think most minor league teams do at least break even, agree with you there.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm not ignoring it. See?

MLB on the other hand is 30 separate businesses acting in their own best interests instead of what's best for MLB.

They are acting in their own best interest, which is to be competitive, sell tickets, and sell merchandise. Isn't that also what is best for the league too? In my eyes, teams acting in their own self interest is good for the sport.