NFL

Stephen · 03-12-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

I know that. I simply posted that since I found it funny it was the very first thing that popped up searching exactly what you told me to lol. Google what I told you to Google, then come back to me. The results will shock you!

The thing is, I already know what it shows. My point is that without an investment in payroll, there is no continued success. That's why I'm basing my argument on winning percentage and not how often a franchise makes the playoffs. I love baseball, but I hate the economics of it. A really strong union coupled with a weak commissioner makes for a bad all around product.

Tio Gato · 03-12-2011, 01:52 PM

Owners and players crying over money. It makes me wanna

I think of the thousands of support personnel that are going to be out of work in stadiums and surrounding businesses. I'm pretty sure that it's tough seeing the little people when you're sitting on a mile high wallet.

I'll be happy just watching my Gators and the rest of the SEC.

VirtualSmitty · 03-12-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

The thing is, I already know what it shows. My point is that without an investment in payroll, there is no continued success. That's why I'm basing my argument on winning percentage and not how often a franchise makes the playoffs. I love baseball, but I hate the economics of it. A really strong union coupled with a weak commissioner makes for a bad all around product.

Baseball = sports capitalism, football = sports socialism. You want to win, you invest in your business, you want to lose, don't. Plenty of small and mid market teams can and are competing and many that have been in the basement are starting to pull out. You can ignore what i've told you to look at, but the point is the Yankees and the other top spending teams aren't buying their way into a championship every year. It takes some money to compete, but that's life, and last time I checked life isn't fair. Why should our sports be?

Stephen · 03-12-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

Baseball = sports capitalism, football = sports socialism. You want to win, you invest in your business, you want to lose, don't. Plenty of small and mid market teams can and are competing and many that have been in the basement are starting to pull out. You can ignore what i've told you to look at, but the point is the Yankees and the other top spending teams aren't buying their way into a championship every year. It takes some money to compete, but that's life, and last time I checked life isn't fair. Why should our sports be?

I'm not ignoring it. See?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

The thing is, I already know what it shows. My point is that without an investment in payroll, there is no continued success. That's why I'm basing my argument on winning percentage and not how often a franchise makes the playoffs.

MY point is that the teams that do spend (or more specifically have the capability to spend), put themselves in a position year in and year out to win, as opposed to the anomalies that are but a blip on the radar, only to have the whole thing blown up because the owner can't compete with big market teams. Nobody's talking fair here. I'm stating a fact. And the fact is that the NFL made a wise business decision to ensure that on some level each and every one of their franchises can be financially competitive, and if ran properly, can put themselves in a positions to succeed, thus drawing more interest from fans, thus generating more revenue. MLB on the other hand is 30 separate businesses acting in their own best interests instead of what's best for MLB. That's why the NFL is King of the Mountain, and will continue to be, labor problems be damned.

VirtualSmitty · 03-12-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm not ignoring it. See?

MY point is that the teams that do spend (or more specifically have the capability to spend), put themselves in a position year in and year out to win, as opposed to the anomalies that are but a blip on the radar, only to have the whole thing blown up because the owner can't compete with big market teams. Nobody's talking fair here. I'm stating a fact. And the fact is that the NFL made a wise business decision to ensure that on some level each and every one of their franchises can be financially competitive, and if ran properly, can put themselves in a positions to succeed, thus drawing more interest from fans, thus generating more revenue. MLB on the other hand is 30 separate businesses acting in their own best interests instead of what's best for MLB. That's why the NFL is King of the Mountain, and will continue to be, labor problems be damned.

Small and mid market teams that are competitive aren't anomalies, they win through smart player drafting and development. The Rays, Brewers, Rockies, Marlins, Reds, etc didn't get good by accident. And while you may love and embrace the socialist stance the NFL takes, I much prefer the more traditional capitalist approach the MLB takes. Baseball is in many ways a microcosm of America, and that to me makes it superior. To each their own though, what you think is fair I think is BS because of where we live

Stephen · 03-12-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

Small and mid market teams that are competitive aren't anomalies, they win through smart player drafting and development. The Rays, Brewers, Rockies, Marlins, Reds, etc didn't get good by accident. And while you may love and embrace the socialist stance the NFL takes, I much prefer the more traditional capitalist approach the MLB takes. Baseball is in many ways a microcosm of America, and that to me makes it superior. To each their own though, what you think is fair I think is BS because of where we live

Of course you love the way it is now, so when the Rays, Brewers, Rockies, Marlins and Reds can't afford to pay their free agents, "market value", they wind up in pinstripes.

Again, I'm not perpetuating what is, "fair" or, "unfair" in how MLB chooses to handle their economics (funny though, that you keep preaching the NFL = Socialism mantra, but yet MLB has had revenue sharing for well over a decade now

). I'm simply putting forth an opinion as to how MLB is no longer king of the hill, and how it came to be. If the NFL was ran the same way, could you honestly tell me the Green Bay Packers and the Pittsburgh Steelers would've been playing in the Super Bowl this year?

Starscream · 03-12-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Of course you love the way it is now, so when the Rays, Brewers, Rockies, Marlins and Reds can't afford to pay their free agents, "market value", they wind up in pinstripes.

Again, I'm not perpetuating what is, "fair" or, "unfair" in how MLB chooses to handle their economics (funny though, that you keep preaching the NFL = Socialism mantra, but yet MLB has had revenue sharing for well over a decade now

). I'm simply putting forth an opinion as to how MLB is no longer king of the hill, and how it came to be. If the NFL was ran the same way, could you honestly tell me the Green Bay Packers and the Pittsburgh Steelers would've been playing in the Super Bowl this year?

The Giants and Rangers played in the Series this year, both of what I would consider small market teams.

I agree with both of your arguments to a degree. Baseball is more of a capitalist system whereas the NFL is more of a socialist system. Small market teams are at a disadvantage IMHO, but once again, life isn't fair. It would be nice to see the Yanks at the bottom of their division just once though.

Stephen · 03-12-2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

The Giants and Rangers played in the Series this year, both of what I would consider small market teams.

I agree with both of your arguments to a degree. Baseball is more of a capitalist system whereas the NFL is more of a socialist system. Small market teams are at a disadvantage IMHO, but once again, life isn't fair. It would be nice to see the Yanks at the bottom of their division just once though.

No to argue for arguments sake, but the Giants had the 10th highest payroll in baseball last year. The Yankees (1st) & Phillies (4th) were in the LCS.

VirtualSmitty · 03-12-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

If the NFL was ran the same way, could you honestly tell me the Green Bay Packers and the Pittsburgh Steelers would've been playing in the Super Bowl this year?

Sure, who says they couldn't. I would have never predicted last years WS. And revenue sharing is a little bit different than a salary cap. There's a luxury tax too in baseball, you forgot to mention that

Stephen · 03-12-2011, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

Sure, who says they couldn't.

Well for one, it'd be the Los Angeles Packers by now. There's no way that a publicly owned NFL franchise, let alone one in by far the smallest television market, would be able to compete (let alone operate) under the operating economic guidelines of MLB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

I would have never predicted last years WS. And revenue sharing is a little bit different than a salary cap. There's a luxury tax too in baseball, you forgot to mention that

I don't know how luxury taxes or a salary cap relate to socialism, but I digress...

03-12-2011, 01:52 PM	#2
Tio Gato Uncle Kitty Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Jeff Location: Casa Grande, AZ Posts: 2,079 Trading: (11)	Re: NFL Owners and players crying over money. It makes me wanna I think of the thousands of support personnel that are going to be out of work in stadiums and surrounding businesses. I'm pretty sure that it's tough seeing the little people when you're sitting on a mile high wallet. I'll be happy just watching my Gators and the rest of the SEC. __________________ "You stink like cigars Uncle Kitty!" Said my Boo age 3. "Kid, take care of your family and the hell with anyone else" My Grandpa Bubba.