Booyah! Heees back... Go Vikings

Originally Posted by shilala

On one level I agree with you, but looking at the whole picture, I think ANY half decent wr would give you as much benefit as Moss. I'd go so far to say that with any other wr, you're likely to win.
Why wouldn't Farve call an audible and have Moss run a route past the db? Because he's pouting and won't hear it, or it's too much effort for him to run a route when it's not "his turn".
Moss didn't get sh1tcanned because he's helping the team. Seriously.
"What he can do" on paper doesn't help unless he brings it to the field.
Imagine what he'd have done for the Vikes if he wasn't such a dick? It makes me sad. I truly fault Moss' play for the Vike's woes since he showed up. Things didn't work out like Childress hoped. It was another Ill-advised move on his part, I think. I'm not sure who's idea the Moss acquisition was, but it smells like a Childress. So I might owe him an apology.

Acquisition was Wilf. I don't think that Chilly was ever on board with it. A superstar receiver with a questionable history is NOT something he'd ever go for. He seems to think his SYSTEM is what wins games, not having the more talented players. A couple years ago, he called it a "kick-ass" offense. It's been anything but that. They had opportunities to get a top shelf receiver in the preseason, but never went for one. Then acquiring Moss...they HAD to know what they were getting. Chilly likely never wanted him in the first place, and got rid of him as soon as he could.

And, his impact had not just been on paper. Look at the defensive alignments that we've seen since he was here Safeties were deeper and rolled to Moss's side. Seriously, I've noticed it more. They aren't crowding the box, intent on stopping Peterson only. You think any DB will be scared of Bernard Berrian or Greg Lewis or Hank Baskett? Harvin will now be covered by the #1DB every game, thus ending any mismatch he created before. At the very minimum, having him on the field as a decoy seemed to keep teams honest and from stacking the box against AP. Now, that won't happen. By jettisoning him, and keeping Chilly, this team has essentially thrown the season away. I think it may be in Faevrearvearervarvervarevravervavrer's best interest to leave now, before he gets killed in a lost and meaningless last season.

[BlackDog]

Originally Posted by Wanger

I think it may be in Faevrearvearervarvervarevravervavrer's best interest to leave now, before he gets killed in a lost and meaningless last season.

I also have been wondering if that will happen. Favre may just decide the hassle isn't worth it and retire.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Wanger

Acquisition was Wilf. I don't think that Chilly was ever on board with it. A superstar receiver with a questionable history is NOT something he'd ever go for. He seems to think his SYSTEM is what wins games, not having the more talented players. A couple years ago, he called it a "kick-ass" offense. It's been anything but that. They had opportunities to get a top shelf receiver in the preseason, but never went for one. Then acquiring Moss...they HAD to know what they were getting. Chilly likely never wanted him in the first place, and got rid of him as soon as he could.

And, his impact had not just been on paper. Look at the defensive alignments that we've seen since he was here Safeties were deeper and rolled to Moss's side. Seriously, I've noticed it more. They aren't crowding the box, intent on stopping Peterson only. You think any DB will be scared of Bernard Berrian or Greg Lewis or Hank Baskett? Harvin will now be covered by the #1DB every game, thus ending any mismatch he created before. At the very minimum, having him on the field as a decoy seemed to keep teams honest and from stacking the box against AP. Now, that won't happen. By jettisoning him, and keeping Chilly, this team has essentially thrown the season away. I think it may be in Faevrearvearervarvervarevravervavrer's best interest to leave now, before he gets killed in a lost and meaningless last season.

The aquisition makes more sense now. At least as to why it was done.
Percy Harvin has definately been tearing it to pieces up the middle with a wider field. I'm just not so sure that's Moss or the scheme.
You still have to provide deep coverage, regardless if it's Berrian or Moss.
I agree Moss's "aura" might garner more attention, though.
Harvin is willing to get lit up in the middle of the field, because he's nuts. I think his game is still going to be there as long as Farve still keeps going down the filed.
Granted, no one will be there to catch the ball, but Farve is gonna have to make nice to someone and get on the same page with them, or he'll never complete a pass over 7 yards for the rest of the season.
I would think he'd take an interest in Berrian. He definately has the hands to get the job done.
If you take "Brett doesn't come to camp" and add it up with "Brett can't practice cause he's about to die", how is he ever gonna get any reps with his receivers? Maybe the front office thought was that Randy has more years in a jersey than Berrian and should be able to jump right into Brett's mind? He has to get some reps with them or they'll never catch a ball.

I had real high hopes to see Minnesota do well this year. What a catastrophe it's turned into, and it just looks more and more bleak every week. I think they can still take the division with a max of two more losses, and they honestly have not played bad ball. I know if you're a Minnesota fan you gotta be ready to puke, but they really are a good club.
I guess my point is that they can definately compete, and they have a good chance of turning this around. If they lose to Arizona this weekend, I'd suggest buying a Packers Jersey, and thank God you're not a Dallas fan.

Tell me this...
Is it just me, or does the NFC look super weak this year? The Giants seem like the only team that has their sh!t together, and they have always seemed poised to implode on any given Sunday.
You know things are rough when all the buzz is about Tampa Bay...

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by shilala

You know things are rough when all the buzz is about Tampa Bay...

Tampa Bay is gonna be a threat if they keep on improving. Who'dathunkit?

Originally Posted by shilala

The aquisition makes more sense now. At least as to why it was done.
Percy Harvin has definately been tearing it to pieces up the middle with a wider field. I'm just not so sure that's Moss or the scheme.
You still have to provide deep coverage, regardless if it's Berrian or Moss.
I agree Moss's "aura" might garner more attention, though.
Harvin is willing to get lit up in the middle of the field, because he's nuts. I think his game is still going to be there as long as Farve still keeps going down the filed.
Granted, no one will be there to catch the ball, but Farve is gonna have to make nice to someone and get on the same page with them, or he'll never complete a pass over 7 yards for the rest of the season.
I would think he'd take an interest in Berrian. He definately has the hands to get the job done.
If you take "Brett doesn't come to camp" and add it up with "Brett can't practice cause he's about to die", how is he ever gonna get any reps with his receivers? Maybe the front office thought was that Randy has more years in a jersey than Berrian and should be able to jump right into Brett's mind? He has to get some reps with them or they'll never catch a ball.

I had real high hopes to see Minnesota do well this year. What a catastrophe it's turned into, and it just looks more and more bleak every week. I think they can still take the division with a max of two more losses, and they honestly have not played bad ball. I know if you're a Minnesota fan you gotta be ready to puke, but they really are a good club.
I guess my point is that they can definately compete, and they have a good chance of turning this around. If they lose to Arizona this weekend, I'd suggest buying a Packers Jersey, and thank God you're not a Dallas fan.

Tell me this...
Is it just me, or does the NFC look super weak this year? The Giants seem like the only team that has their sh!t together, and they have always seemed poised to implode on any given Sunday.
You know things are rough when all the buzz is about Tampa Bay...

Harvin's improvement = Moss's presence. No doubt. If it were the scheme, he'd have had big games earlier in the year. The fact that they can have him motioning into the backfield, while still having a serious receiving threat out wide is a part of it. Defenses have to account for both of them. If you're a D-coordinator, who would you be more afraid of on the outside: Greg Lewis, Bernard Berrian, or Randy Moss?

As for Berrian, he may have the hands, but having good hands is of no use when you can't actually get open. LOL I've watched him this year, and about the only times he's been able to shake the defender has been in the last couple games. Even then, he hasn't come up "big". He was a deep threat a couple years ago, but it seems like he's lost a step or two, honestly. Not sure what's gone on there.

The QB is DEFINITELY NOT on the same page as his receivers. I'd have to agree that it's the lack of reps in the preseason and during the week. If he'd been here for 4+ years, maybe then it'd be better, but this is only his 2nd (and hopefully last...I never wanted him here to start with, and the only way it makes sense is if he brings home a ring). The timing just isn't there. We saw it last year...same scenario, but he was healthy and able to practice during the week and develop some of that timing as the season went on. I don't see it happening this year.

I know they're a good team, and have been right in most of the games, but they're playing catchup, mostly because of the performance of the offense, and specifically the QB. And simply being in the games doesn't mean anything in the NFL. Only wins count.

The coaching and decisions made (playcalling and challenges/not challenging) have not helped. Those are things that have been like this for as long as Childress has been here. His first year, I saw WAY too many 6-7 yard patterns called when it was 3rd and 10. He was coaching a scheme, not for success. He knew he didn't have the receivers that could break tackles and get those extra yards, but he still called those plays. How can you have 12 men in the huddle coming out of a timeout in the NFC title game? How can you have 10 men on the field for a critical 4th and goal play on offense? I've said it time and again, and I'll keep saying it until he's gone. They will go nowhere as long as he's the coach.

As for the NFC being weak, I completely agree. When the wildcard teams are Philly and Tampa, something's off. The Giants do look like the team to beat in the NFC, but as you said, they're always on the doorstep of imploding. GB is looking like they're starting to get in a groove, but they didn't look all that great against the Jtes, and Rodgers has seemed to be rather off the last couple weeks, in regards to his timing with his receivers.

A loss against AZ DEFINITELY ends their season, and if so, hopefully Chilly's coaching tenure with it. With all due respect, I'd NEVER lower myself to wearing a GB jersey (Cowboys, either). YUCK! LOL

As I saw somewhere (not sure exactly where, maybe a friend on FB), the smartest thing for the team to do for the future would be to dump Chilly and hire Frazier as the head coach. Look at the track record of former Viking coordinators as head coaches (Dungy, Billick, Tomlin...). Seems like they always do well and get a ring somewhere else.