Tragic shooting death involving off duty Detroit Police officer

[icehog3]

Like Remo Mike, I will refrain from commenting until the facts come to light. Everything else right now is speculation and conjecture.

[HollywoodQue]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Like Remo Mike, I will refrain from commenting until the facts come to light. Everything else right now is speculation and conjecture.

Agreed Tom. I just wanted to test what was said to have happened to see if it was even possible. From what I just tried at home with NO scientific proof, it seems possible, NOT that is happened this way at all.

[icehog3]

Understood, Howard, I hope it all comes out (well) in the wash.

[Bill86]

I have shot one of those, in fact I have one. You can't accidentally pull THAT trigger. Especially in a holster, it's probably a 10 pound D/A trigger. I'm sure it's possible.....but damn, not easy.

That said, accidentally discharges happen to A LOT of people sooner or later. MANY people won't admit it but they have shot a round in something sooner or later. Even if it's just at the range and they shoot the floor or ground. Gun jams and they accidentally pull the trigger while racking it......etc etc.

It hasn't happened to me but I do know people who have had it happen.

[HollywoodQue]

I DO NOT KNOW THE OFFICER OR THE VICTIM INVOLVED IN THIS TRAGIC SHOOTING. I am only trying to see for myself if the stated way this happened is even possible.

This is truely a tragic accident that occured within my department. I feel for the victim, her family, and the officer. I just had this same decussion at my barbershop. I barber has a CPL and carries. He also has the same neoprene holster that the officer was using which is horrible and offers not locking mechanism. Their are several types of neoprene holsters, but the one which he was carrying is just like a drivers wet suit.

At the barbershop, I took my barbers neoprene holster , placed a pair of his scissors inside, handle in first and was able to easily pulled one of the loops of the scissors handle in a downward motion as if it was the trigger of a weapon.


In this first photo, it shows the compact version of the weapon that the officer was carrying, but more importantly, it shows my holster, when properly placed on the waistband, it is parallel to the ground.



Now this photo shows a pancake holster carrying the DPD issued S&W MP in a holster designed to point at a 45 degree angle to the ground.



Now imagine if someone was squatting and held on to your waistband for balance, then pulled themselves up using your waistband. Went doing this, you may have a natural instinct to clench your hand. The weapon is concealed under my shirt.



Same photo with my shirt raised up and my thumb is still on the trigger.

[ApexAZ]

This is just assuming what they are saying is really what happened. If so, where is the need to conceal a loaded and cocked weapon in your own back yard? I realize this is detroit, but it's not like this guy was on duty in a public area; it was his own home with friends he invited himself.

Anyways, that's why I prefer double action revolvers. You don't sacrifice speed, but it takes a lot more to discharge them accidentally.

Either way, the story definitely doesn't seem add up. Seems fishy.

[357]

Originally Posted by ApexAZ

This is just assuming what they are saying is really what happened. If so, where is the need to conceal a loaded and cocked weapon in your own back yard? I realize this is detroit, but it's not like this guy was on duty in a public area; it was his own home with friends he invited himself.

Anyways, that's why I prefer double action revolvers. You don't sacrifice speed, but it takes a lot more to discharge them accidentally.

Either way, the story definitely doesn't seem add up. Seems fishy.

This makes no sense. A striker fire weapon like the one in this story only requires some pressure on the trigger to fire. There is no real safety. The same is true of a DAO revolver. No safety and all you have to do to fire is apply pressure to the trigger.

I carry a 1911 that has a firing-pin block deactivated by a grip safety. It also has a thumb safety. It's designed to be carried cocked and locked, which scares some people who are unfamiliar with the operation of a 1911. Believe me when I say I've seen cocked/locked 1911 hammers bent forward where it almost made contact to the firing pin and the sear wouldn't release. I've read accounts where they've been dropped muzzle down from 3 stories and didn't fire. IMO the cocked/locked 1911 is one of the safest guns to carry. DA/SA are safe but have disadvantages I don't care for. DA/SA pistols have a long heavy trigger pull follwed by short light pulls. A SAO 1911 has the same trigger pull with each round. Since a consistent trigger pull is paramount to accuracy, I feel the DA/SA concept is flawed. But, I digress.

Originally Posted by HollywoodQue

Yeah man, it's a damn shane that it gotten this bad....but don't be fooled for a minute. The entire country is in bad shape.

@ Tom....man, I have been trying to move to West Bloomfield for over a year...just tried of all the nonsense in the streets.

First, great illustrations Howard. It would be possible from either a MOB or a strong side hip holster and I agree it would probably be the thumb pressing upward while gripping the waist or belt. If thats the way it happened, it was truly a freak accident.

The officer didn't do anything wrong if that's the case. Carrying on your own property has few if any of the restrictions that concealed carrying or open carrying does on public or otherwise owned private property.

Originally Posted by HollywoodQue

Until the department does a complete investigation, anything is possible.

The bad thing about it all is that there is a dead, one day short of turning 25 years old, young lady.

Lets suppose the officer is cleared....I believe that he can still be sued by the family for Wrongful Death.

If the officer is cleared I hope he doesn't face this kind of civil suit.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by 357

IMO the cocked/locked 1911 is one of the safest guns to carry.

Not to mention knock down power of the .45 and fun to shoot. Get hit anywhere with .45 and problem solved.

[icehog3]

I guess you've never lived in Detroit, Brian.

[Remo]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I guess you've never lived in Detroit, Brian.

I would have two guns on me even while in the house if lived in the D.

[HollywoodQue]

Originally Posted by Remo_5_0

I would have two guns on me even while in the house if lived in the D.

Yeah man, it's a damn shane that it gotten this bad....but don't be fooled for a minute. The entire country is in bad shape.

@ Tom....man, I have been trying to move to West Bloomfield for over a year...just tried of all the nonsense in the streets.

[Coach Deg]

[quote=HollywoodQue;1677022]Yeah man, it's a damn shane that it gotten this bad....but don't be fooled for a minute. The entire country is in bad shape.

I agree, the entire country is getting worse.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by HollywoodQue

@ Tom....man, I have been trying to move to West Bloomfield for over a year...just tried of all the nonsense in the streets.

Just makes me sad, Howard, my old neighborhood makes me want to cry.

[HollywoodQue]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Just makes me sad, Howard, my old neighborhood makes me want to cry.

Me too Tom....I currently live in South Rosedale Park. There were judges, doctors, and police in the neighborhood when I moved here in 2000. The average cost of a home in this area was between 160K and 300k. It last appraised at $189k in 2003. A home 2 houses over is now listed for $26k. Damn....

[ApexAZ]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I guess you've never lived in Detroit, Brian.

Haha no, but if I felt like I had to walk around my own home with a loaded gun, I'd be looking for a new place to live I think.

Opinions and speculation aside, my heart goes out to her family. What a tragedy =(

[HollywoodQue]

Now, this only shows that it is possible.

I can honestly say that in my opinion, I am 100 % sure that I DON'T HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.

[ApexAZ]

Could it be possible the weapon came out of the holster, fell and discharged?

[HollywoodQue]

Originally Posted by ApexAZ

Could it be possible the weapon came out of the holster, fell and discharged?

Until the department does a complete investigation, anything is possible.

The bad thing about it all is that there is a dead, one day short of turning 25 years old, young lady.

Lets suppose the officer is cleared....I believe that he can still be sued by the family for Wrongful Death.

[icehog3]

I hear you, Howard....still can find patches of beauty on the East side....but the West side just brings a tear to my eye.

[bonjing]

Howard, great pics and explanation! I can see that being harder to do with a stiffer/leather holster but if its one of these

http://www.unclemikes.com/products/i..._holsters.html

(if i posted it right)

I can definitely see it possible using the actions that you describe. Seeing in the above link how the Glock's trigger area is exposed and neoprene being being semi soft i can easily see a thumb or a finger getting in there.