Need some input
 

Hey guys; coffee machine crapped out. I am in need of a new one. I'd love an espresso/coffee maker that will grind as well. But I hear bad things about them (quality of espresso). Should I keep them separate? Any recommendations? TYIA and happy holidays.

Re: Need some input
 

It begins with the budget, Costa. Then there is the grinder. It ends with the budget.

What is the budget (and don't forget Christmas is coming)?

Actual, good worthwhile espresso means good grinder ($$$), a pricey machine ($$$) and a substantial amount of bother; nearly espresso (but satill quite good) means a passable grinder ($$-$$$) and a very modest brewer ($$) like a mokapot or an AeroPress. Excellent brewed coffee, non-pressurized, means a modest grinder ($$-$$$) and a french press ($$) or a manual dripper or manual pourover filter ($-$$).

There are many routes to coffee nirvana but they all require good quality, freshly roasted coffee, a little attention to brewing details and, if at all possible, a good conical burr grinder.

Re: Need some input
 

Haha, so true. Ok Mister Moo, here it goes; after researching for hours and hours, I now realize my journey to coffee/espresso nirvana has to start with a grinder. I am willing to make the investment in a good one, followed by getting the beans somewhere other than the super market. I will be a drip coffee maker during the week, and may play around with the French press on the weekends. I may have to wait to make the big investment for an espresso maker. So let me know your thoughts Mr. M on the following:

1) grinder; I have read all about the burr grinders, etc. What do you recommend as one that I will buy once and be done?
2) probably won't be roasting, so where do you recommend getting the beans via online? I like a STRONG cup.
3) whats your thoughts on a Technivorm and a Capresso MT500? Both seem to nail the proper temp. and like I said, I will always need a drip to fill my during the week needs.
4) espresso machines; whats the price range to get into a good one?
5) I have heard a lot about this, and was one of TIME magazines best new inventions of the year: http://www.mypressi.com/
What are your thoughts?

Thank you again for your time!

Re: Need some input
 

Oh no, I have 58 mm burrs that are flat and I thought I had hit nirvana.

I couldn't be happier with my Mazzer killer, I mean Macap M4 stepless and doubt I will ever buy another grinder.

No need to tell everyone how far from an expert I am, but would give serious thought to just plunking down 2 grand and getting a great grinder and an espresso machine ( I am biased to HX E61 types now) and never think about coffee eqiuipment again until someone brings up Regbarber tampers.

Re: Need some input
 

Keep them seperate. Mazzer or Rocky grinder will do the trick for life. Both are worth their price. The Rocky has a lot of plastic around it which "could" crack, but the guts are commerical grade. The Mazzer is all that, but so is the price.

As for machines, it depends on how much you want to spend.

I have the Rocky/Silva set for a decade now and it has been pretty solid. Two group head gaskets and one thermometer. I plan to step it up some times if 2-3K falls into my lap.

Re: Need some input
 

Thank you so much bud! So, for the coffee only maker, whats your take? It seems to me my choice is the Capresso MT500 or the Technivorm, based on what I've read pertaining to temperature.....thoughts?

Boy, am I upgrading.....lol.

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Ok, pulling the trigger on a Rocky. What is the difference between these two; they are about the same price, and I can't read the difference in their description...........let me know if one of these are a good choice, I will be waiting with CC in hand....lol. Thanks again guys, as if I did not spend enough on cigars already......haha.

https://merpic.intelliwebservices.co...9bd111f137.jpg
https://merpic.intelliwebservices.co...8fd5b349ae.jpg

Re: Need some input
 

One is doserless and puts the grinds directly into the portafilter. I've read that doserless grinders are harder to deal with clumps.

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A friend of mine owns an English pub and always served coffee. The coffee shop next door went out of business and he picked up this Kony for about 700 bucks and it only had about a year use on it.

Probably overkill for home use, but it is sweet. Kinda looks like a giant crystal in the throat of the grinder.

He also got one of those big machines with the brass top on it for a couple grand.

All in all he has a nice setup now on the bar.

http://www.espressoparts.com/MAZZER_KONY

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Holy crap, thats nice. Decided to make the investment after years of drinking sub-par coffee. I'm a "invest now" kind of guy, so I want to make sure I am getting something that will get me through many, many years.

Tell ya, I can't figure out which way to go, doser or doserless, read so many differing opinions on each.......

So, my steps are

1) Grinder - one of the Rocky's
2) daily use maker - still undecided
3) bean source - not sure yet
4) a REAL espressso maker - once 1-3 are done, I will hit that one.

Please keep any an all input coming. This is exactly what I went through with cigars many years ago on the old CS. I'd be a rich man if it were not for you gentlemen....haha.

I'm all ears; doser or doserless and what coffeemaker (is the MT500 any good).

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Get this one if you are ever going to buy an espresso machine. Even if you just use this grinder for French Press or drip, the doser is a big help.

https://merpic.intelliwebservices.co...8fd5b349ae.jpg

Buy the grinder first and I would strongly suggest one with a doser. No opinion on which machine to buy. Really depends on your budget. Silvia will get you going, but some of the 1000-1500 machines are real nice. The temp's and pressure are more steady.

A friend of mine has the Mazzer without the doser and it's a pain to fill the portafilter and very messy. You'll find making espresso a dirty job in general.

Re: Need some input
 

Fantastic, ordering it now! How about straight coffee maker? The machine (espresso) I will attack sometime this late spring, but would like to get a coffee machine that will give me the best coffee for the money; any input on that one? And again, thank all of you guys so much for your time....

Re: Need some input
 

Why don't you consider a moka pot or a pour over for the coffee and wait to buy an espresso machine?

For some strange reason, I see coffee roasting in your future.


I'm the same way about the investing for the long run and firmly believe a couple hundred extra on a grinder puts you in a whole different league, and wouldn't write off refurbished equipment which, in many cases, was simply a return. Not that the Rocky won't serve you well for many years. It sure has a lot of fans and combines with the Silvia in many happy homes.

In my case, after a long and grueling grinder research, the 2 I came down to were the Mazzer Mini and Macap M4 stepless. The Macap ended up on my counter next to my Brasilia and I am very happy, but a little broke.

I did some mods on my Macap, like taking off the "beauty ring", or the useless black numbered ring that you can't read the numbers on for the adjustments, painted it silver, and then put in black lines so seeing the tiniest adjustments was easier. You may be able to see the white arrow I put on it to show my "point zero".

Every grinder, in my opinion, has one or two design flaws that really should be improved.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...inegrinder.jpg

Re: Need some input
 

Mainly based on my weekly schedule; I work 12 hours per day, and the gf does not get as anal about things as I do....lol. Still the quick cup of coffee that will satisfy my needs and hers from the best (drip) maker I can get. And I travel as well, so when she is alone, she can make a pot of coffee.

I just googled moka pot, and that looks like the fastest route to espresso until I buy my "machine". The Rocky should cover my grinding needs for that, correct?

Boy, I feel like the days when I first started diving into my cigar habit head first; ignorant......but VERY excited. You guys are the best. I can remember my frantic post's with every question cigar related many years ago, and some of you same guys sending me down the slope...lol.

Can't thank you guys enough. This machine breaking I think will be the best thing that could have happened....haha.

Would you say the moka pot is the best route to good stove top espresso?

Also, any leads on where to buy beans for when the grinder comes in? Give me your favorite one's, I'm into trying anything!

Thanks again, all of you!!!

Re: Need some input
 

HOly cow, thats awesome looking! Man! Do you think I should jump up a notch other than the Rocky?

Re: Need some input
 

:r:r Man You already have the sickness,

Just wanted to give you some pricing info before you go too nuts:

This is my grinder, which is better (I say) or slightly worse (Moo says) than a Mazzer:

http://www.chriscoffee.com/images/84...4R.jpg?Popup=1

You're talking 6 Bills plus to make the next move up from a Rocky.

Here's my espresso machine:

http://www.chriscoffee.com/images/90...ta.jpg?Popup=1

That's another 1,500 beans


That's a setup that will last you the rest of your life, you'll never have upgraditis, but it isn't cheap. It all depends on how much you want to spend, and if you suffer from upgraditis or not:D

Re: Need some input
 

I would expect to spend about $1500 for the espresso maker, thats a beauty, what make?

I'm a "buy once" guy, so I want to make the right choice, once, and be done. Rarely regret spending the $$, but have regretted not getting what I wanted the first time around. So while I'm not a "money is not an option guy", I am willing make the investment, but look for that "value sweet spot".

So, I'm getting the feeling the Rocky may not be the grinder that gets me into old age..........

Also, what is your thoughts on a day-to-day coffee maker? Thanks!

Re: Need some input
 

Vic's setup is really close to mine; Macap grinder and a HX E61 machine.

With an E61 brewgroup, you have brewgroup that weighs more than most machines do and besides a cooling flush before pulling a shot, very little to worry about once you get dialed in. I doubt you'll find anyone who will tell you they are looking to upgrade their heat exchange E61 machine, regardless of who made it. Once you get into that price range, it comes down to small cosmetic issues and the decision will be made on stuff like guages and cup warmers and plumbing in my opinion. It's also a really good time to make sure you are getting what you really will be happy with.

For a grinder, I chose the Macap for a few reasons like cord placement, cleaner doser sweep, and most importantly; a worm drive adjuster to satisfy my OCD tendencies. My finger was on the "buy now" button on the Mazzer a couple times though.

In my opinion, for home or small cafe use, that's a really hard to beat combo.

I got my Macap for around 500 bucks from Wholelatttelove and upgraded from a Gaggia MDF grinder, which was supposedly a small step below the Rocky grinder, who knows.

The difference is night and day between the grinders and the machine replaced a Baby Gaggia, which I feel is also a step or two below the Silvia.

The difference now is consistent and perfect shots that allowed me to entertain on Thanksgiving without missing a beat.

Whatever you decide, it takes time and money to figure out how to get the shots you like and, if you're like me, you'll never be completely satisfied.

Do it right the first time and don't look back. It ain't a crime to be good to yourself.:D

Oh, and to answer your question, yes, I think you should move up from the Rocky.

Re: Need some input
 

http://www.chriscoffee.com/images/90...ta.jpg?Popup=1


I tried out this machine last year and I can say (as someone using a Silva 10 years) that this machine is wonderful. For sure there is a big difference once you know what you are doing. My next will be either that machine or something similar. With someone who knows how to make an espresso and froth, you can be 100% in no time.

Trial and error will waste a lot of coffee beans which can be expensive. Over the years I get less picky about beans since most of what I brew are lattes vs. just espresso. I keep it the Euro size cup so it's still a robust drink.

Re: Need some input
 

Hey guys, whats your take on this statement, I got it from the Macap Stepless M-4 write-up on Amazon:

I will be using this for coffee until the spring when I splurge on an espresso maker in the $1500-2000 range. I will probably make it on the stove to practice and get familiar, but will be using the grinder for day-to-day coffee until I pull the trigger.

Why would that be the case, and thank you for teaching me the art of coffee.

Re: Need some input
 

It means adjusting between an espresso shot and a French Press could take the best part of a day and leave your hand very tired.

One rotation of the worm drive moves the grinder about one setting.

It's great for small adjustments between different espresso roasts but not big jumps.

I have seen some people take off the worm drive handle and put on a guitar string winder for quicker winding.

I have never venured more than a few clicks.

Re: Need some input
 

I have a Capresso Drip. It works great for daily stuff. I enjoy my french press when I have the time on the weekends. As far as beans go. I am a home roaster, which opens up another door of toys.

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The Rocky is quite easy to adjust from French Press to Espresso or even Turkish Coffee.

Re: Need some input
 

The Macap, which is the grinder both
Pete and I have, uses a stepless worm drive to adjust the grind. What that means is it is infinitely adjustable, which makes it
perfect for espresso grinding where very small adjustments can make
or break the shot. It also means it isn't the fastest to
make LARGE adjustments, as it takes
quite a few spins of the adjustment lever to
move from an espresso grind to a drip grind, in theory this is a pain. In
pratice, it's not so long as you're only swinging back and forth once or twice
a day. It's really a non issue for me in practice

Re: Need some input
 

I just did a price check and found:

Rocky>> $359

Vario>> $429

Macap M4>>$494

Not bashing any brands, but Geez, under $150 difference for what I feel is a world of difference for a long, long time????

Less than that for the Vario which has been getting rave reviews.

Seems quite easy to me, but I am quite opinionated and there certainly is a big market for Rockys. I just hate plastic parts.

Buy the Macap, set it for coffee, adjust it to espresso when you get the machine, and be happy.

Re: Need some input
 

If you want to save money... Have you checked Craigslist? Grinders and machines come and go all the time.

The Rocky is stepped. When the grind comes to espresso, you still have a swing of 3 steps in getting the grind "just right", so although it is not infinite, you'll hit the sweet spot. The Silva does maintain temperature as steady as the high end machines, but you still end up with a nice espresso.

I am not as perfection obessed as I use to be with espresso. As long as it comes out within in time, I am happy. If the comes out more on one side than the other, I don't shed a tear.

Re: Need some input
 

I'm completely anal and obsessed.

I can't get over it if my espresso pull is faster than 25 seconds to make 1.75 oz shots, 30 seconds being optimal. I have a timer and push it the second the shot starts and break stuff if it comes out too fast. 22 second pulls go right into the sink.

The Macap allows exactly 5 seconds to be added or subtracted by one complete rotation of the worm drive.

I only floss with one type of floss, oh forget it. Buy what you like, not what me and Vic use.

Re: Need some input
 

AHhhh, ok, I think I get it. But will this be ok for my day-to-day needs pertaining to coffee from a, say, Capresso MT500? Thanks again!

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Thank you! For the price, I'm better off with the Macap, its just that the statement that said "not for coffee use" scared me, as I will be using it for my coffee until I get the "real" espresso machine this summer. Again, thank you.

Re: Need some input
 

I agree, totally. Stupid question; can you give me primer on what type of grind (fine I am pretty sure is for espresso) is what? For instance, when I get the grinder, how will I know the type of grind to use for my day-to-day coffee? And how much to how much water?

Thanks again for educating me. I owe you guys so much......

Re: Need some input
 

No problem. The lower the number, the finer the grind. The higher the number, the coarser.

For coffee, I would guess you would set at about 5, but it's a matter of seeing what comes out and adjusting from there.

Keep asking questions because Italian grinder and espresso machine user manuals are as bad as they get.

And to make things more tricky, the numbers on the Macap are hard to read. Most likely, you'll find the spot where coffee grind is perfect, put a little mark on it and go left or right a notch or two if you want to adjust. Same with Espresso.

Once you get your hands on it, it will be a breeze. I completely disassembled my Macap, cleaned the burrs, painted the number ring silver and put black lines where the numbers are, and reassembled in under an hour.

If you make the choice to get the Macap, I have step by step directions for taking it apart, which is easy and you will only do once or twice a year, or once a week if you are anal and opinionated like me.

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How will I be able to tell what is the right coffee grind? Taste? (damn I must sound stupid...lol)

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I couldn't tell ya that one. Can't remember the last time I drank coffee.

My wife brews, and always has, Cafe Bustello in her drip and it is espresso grind and seems to work fine.

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So the same setting can be used in a drip as in an espresso maker? Good to know........man, I'm slipping down the coffee slope.....

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NO. You would not get a satisfactory result.

The only reason that review on the Macap says it's not good for coffee is the inconvenience of changing from an espresso grind to a drip grind. As far as the quality of the grind is concerned, that is not the issue.

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This article explains some good facts about grinders in general, and look for the section on the Macap M4, it should explain some things for you.

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso...-features.html

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A chart of different grinds:

http://www.ineedcoffee.com/03/coffeegrind/

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Thank you so much! Off to read!

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I'm thinking of going stepped because it will be used for both coffee and espresso on a pretty consistant basis. Thoughts on my loss of adjustment?

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What about the best day-to-day drip coffee maker? Any input?

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Excellent, thank you. Is it the MT500?

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You couldn't go wrong with a Technivorm.

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Yes it is a Capresso MT 500.

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I don't use a timer. If I like the angel hair thick streams of coffee and it appears to be in the 20's, I am happy.

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Thank you all, I have reached my decisions.

Ordered a Technivorm Moccamaster. Also getting the Macap M-4. But if you guys and gals would help me with one last decision; stepped or non-stepped on the grinder. I will be using it for both daily coffee and stove-top espresso until I get the machine. Seems stepped is the way to go, would you all agree?

Again, thank you all for educating me and sending me swiftly down the coffee slope.

Any bean websites and maybe some of you favorites beans to try for day-to-day coffee would help as well! Thanks again!

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Congrats on a very good decision. You can consider your grinder buying finished forever probably, and that is the heart of the whole operation. No upgradeitis for you in the grinder department.

I say get the stepless and figure out one time where the coffee grind setting works best, put a little felt marker dot on it and do the same for your espresso mark.

I had a stepped grinder and find a lot in between numbers that makes little differences that most don't worry about, but I do.

You'll spend a good deal of time looking at your dial and will probably make marks, or use little arrow stickers to know where certain points, like absolute zero are. (more on that later) It's all part of the fun and is very rewarding once you get dialed in to your commercial grinder.

I went further and took off the ring with the numbers, spray painted it the same color as the silver machine, and painted black notches carefully where the numbers are.

Unless you are changing multiple times a day, it won't be a hassle at all and the adjustment will be easy. 20-30 seconds of turning will move the grinder settings more than enough for both grinds.

You could always do like others in your situation and pull off the knob and replace it with a guitar winder which can be had for a buck or two. Once you do that, you'll cruise through the settings and probably enjoy your handywork.

The main point of the Macap, in my opinion, is the infinite adjustment of the worm drive and without it, you still have an awesome grinder for life, but might wonder how that shot would be in between two numbers.

In any event, nice job. It was fun to watch you wrestle with this and I can't wait until machine time comes.:r

Re: Need some input
 

http://coffeegeek.com/forums for hours of fun reading regarding coffee machines and equipment, and for beans, I find Sweetmarias as good as it gets if you're roasting. Their customer service is the best.

Until then, Unclebeanz is great and I am hardpressed to find a better espresso blend than Intelligencia's Black Cat Espresso or Stumptown Hairbender.

I also would be glad to send you some of my own roast if you want.

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I agree with Uncle Beanz

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So there is a way to mark where you were, great. I envisioned a wheel that just spun, with no way of marking a spot that gets you what you want.

Seeing as I will be getting the machine in the spring, what is my best method, in your opinion, of making espresso without a machine; the stove top method?

I don't see myself getting into roasting, but then I did not see myself with 2 vino temps and attempting to build a walk-in humidor either when I had a 10 cigar Thompsons special humi before meeting you people on CS many years ago...lol. So time will tell on that one.

Wanted to get it started, and feel I got the basics; good grinder and drip brewer.

Thanks again. Must have spent about 5 hours reading about this over the weekend...lol.

Re: Need some input
 

Thank you! I will check into that ASAP!