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Mugen910

01-22-2009, 02:57 PM

SEASON 5 EPISODE 1 RECAP

Marvin Candle - Not Exactly a Morning Person
Our opening scene this season is a mirror of Desmond's morning routine from S2. But while Desmond was a morning person, Candle is clearly not off to a good start. Dharma's making him shave with those miserable Shick disposable razors, and he's *****ing fiercely at everyone he sees. His record player is skipping ominously, drawing dark parallels to the way the island is currently skipping through time. Candle's got important work to do, yet he's annoyingly tasked with creating another bullshit Dharma orientation tape. He couldn't care less about 'gathering intelligence on the island's hostile indigenous population', or about the wanna-be Sawyer cameraman, whose haircut and facial hair offer us visual duplicity, right from the start.

Suddenly Candle is summoned to the place where he knows the real work is being done. You'd think he might want to oversee this site more closely: sweaty guys with giant drills are one centimeter away from puncturing an unlimited energy source. After explaining how close they all came to instant oblivion, Candle's only too happy to bring the ignorant foreman up to date on the intricacies of time travel (huh?). He does this out of frustration, but mostly he does it because it allows him to not-so-subtly deliver to us the big rule of the upcoming season: Nothing from the past can be changed.

The 'wow' moment this opener is the appearance of Daniel, who we suddenly realize is back in the 70's and dressed in a Dharma jumpsuit. The question isn't how he got there, the question is why. Faraday obviously plans to do something, and he's infiltrated Dharma to learn the status of the frozen donkey wheel.

It Happened Because you Left, Jack
Back at the funeral parlor, Ben gives Jack the final guilt-ridden push to get going. Unlike Marvin Candle, Jack has the Gillette Mach 3. He quickly ditches the sub-commander beard as Ben goes over the plan to retrieve Hurley, Sun, Sayid and Kate. Aaron's name is conspicuously absent from this list. Ben asks Jack if Locke told him what happened after the island was moved, and he seems genuinely disappointed when Jack doesn't know. Although he's left before, Ben was always able to go back to the island. This marks the first time in his life where the island has gone on without him, and that alone makes Ben himself a little bit lost.

See You in Another Life
I was thrilled to see we learned right away what happened to those on the island. When the finale aired last year, I was afraid they'd give us five or six off-island episodes before they revealed the fate of those who stayed behind. I think the writers learned not to isolate the show this way, as they did in S3 with the Others and their beating zoo. Instead of creating a building anticipation to see the rest of the cast we were all strong-armed into depression by the dreary cages and shark tanks.

Back to S5. Locke gets zapped through time alone, squinting up at the sky in the now quintessential rain-soaked LOST scene. Notice how the rest of the cast members meet together on a sunny beach: it's only Locke that gets reborn through the use of the rain metaphor. John Locke is slowly evolving into his destined role as leader of the Others - the island, or Jacob, has chosen him for this task. To begin this metamorphosis, Locke is made to shed his previous life and start anew. And as he skips through the island's different time points, I have a hunch he's going to inherently start to know things in the creepily omniscient way of Benjamin Linus.

Sawyer - Kicking Ass, Shirt or No Shirt
As much as Faraday has grown on me, his reluctance to explain things has always chewed my ass. Thank God for Sawyer, who after four full seasons is finally done following people blindly through the jungle simply because someone says 'there's no time to explain'. Sawyer literally slaps the answers out of Daniel. It's as if the slap suddenly marks a mystery-resolving turning point: answers come pouring forth - GOOD answers - and for once it's wholly satisfying. The island has moved through time, and their camp is not built yet... or as Daniel puts it, perhaps they themselves have moved through time. There are arguments for both sides, but I think the latter to be true.

If it were the island moving through time and the terrain physically changing, wouldn't the inhabitants have changed with it? Wouldn't our characters have gotten older or younger just as the trees grew taller or shorter? Somehow the 815'ers and freighter four are skipping through time in their current physical bodies (and clothing). This is completely unlike Desmond's mental trip through time last season, where his mind could only jump into places his body happened to be in that era. This season's characters can skip forward and backward, their position on the island fixed, interacting with the places and people of whatever time period they happen to be thrust into. Of course, the possibility also exists that they're time-tripping within their own minds, much like Minkowski, and physically they're all lying comatose on the beach in the island's current timeline... but that's a can of worms I choose not to open just now.

Yet if it's the island that's moving beneath them, our main characters are somehow keeping their memories. It seems that the other (and Other) inhabitants of the island are not. If you watch, I don't think the other inhabitants can even see the flash of light coming. Richard sees it when Locke is initially zapped (maybe because it was the originating timeline), but doesn't even squint when John quantum-leaps the second time. Ethan makes no notice of it as it goes off behind him just as he's about to shoot Locke. But the clincher comes when Richard later tells John "You'll be moving on soon", meaning that it's Locke that's moving and Richard is staying put.

So as Faraday says, they've been 'dislodged' from time. To me, this makes our stranded islanders ten times more interesting than the Oceanic six. Suddenly we can be shown anything and everything that's happened on the island: it's like the ultimate unlimited flashback, we've waited the whole show for. Any mystery... answered at any time. We see the Beechcraft crash, we see Ethan again. Ana Lucia shows up, Libby says hi - the writers can use this as a vehicle to show us every single thing we've always wondered about, from how the Black Rock got on the island to the origins of the four-toed statue. As long as our characters keep skipping we're treated to front row seats for all of the important events, landmarks, and happenings in the island's entire history. The Enchantment Under the Sea dance has officially started.

Run Kate, Run!
Yeah, ... we already know this drill. I won't even count how many times we've seen it before. Kate and Aaron are the last of the O6 still secure in the lair of the real world, so triggering Kate's flight instinct was the surest way to jolt her into leaving that comfort zone. The possibility of her losing Aaron would be the one thing that would get Kate to consider going back to the island too... which is why I'm pretty sure Ben Linus sent those men to her house. There is no paternity lawsuit. Ben's a sneaky bastard.

I'm not sure if the 'tunnel of no return' reference in Aaron's cartoon was meant to describe Kate's opinion of the island, but it seemed to be something along those lines. And the strategic placement of the Jack and Aaron photo was there either to remind the less dedicated viewers of their relationship (hey, it's been a while), or to indicate that maybe Kate hasn't completely gotten over the idea of being with Jack. Maybe both.

The Island's Always Had a Bad Case of the Time Hiccups
I think the island has been held relatively in place (and time) for most of the show, but has been showing increasing signs of 'skipping' for some time now. Most likely this began after electromagnet was destroyed. Even before Ben turned the wheel we've seen deliberate and sometimes instant changes in the fabric of LOST's world - the picture frames in Miles' flashback, the food rearranging itself in Ben's fridge, the clocks that skip ahead hours in mere minutes. Most dramatic of all was the lantern in Jacob's cabin shattering and then re-forming itself as time 'rewound' itself in that particular scene.

These things are now somewhat explained through Daniel's skipping record player analogy, and for the most part can be put to rest. Questions remain however, as to why things would change in what is supposed to be a character's off-island flashback. I've got my own kooky ideas on this, and am still working on that theory.

Widmore - Playing Sun or Getting Played?
Sun's confrontation with Widmore didn't tell us much, but when she revealed her motive of wanting Ben dead I thought it completely disingenuous. Sun doesn't care about Ben. She's trying to use Widmore to get back to the island, and to do that she needs to convince him they've got common interests. Widmore seems way too smart to be played like that. Still, if he knows the same things Ben knows about getting back there, he knows that Sun will be needed. As the two of them play this game, I'm guessing Sun wants to know what happened to Jin and/or believes Jin to still be alive. Compared to what's happening to Sawyer's crew, this storyline is about as interesting as Paolo discovering the toilet still worked.

Loading Your Dishwasher Knife Side Up? Pure Badass.
I suppose we'll never get tired of watching Sayid kicking the crap out of people. This is the guy who once built a fully-stocked love hut in order to smoothly seduce Shannon, mere days after her brother's violent death. It seems his picnic-on-the-beach days are officially over. Sayid has abandoned romance and elevated himself to James Bond-like levels of super human badass ability: killing at will, avoiding fried foods, and generously tipping his chicken waitress.

Sayid effectively tells Hurley that Ben Linus is evil, going as far as to make sure that Hurley never listens to him again. This immediately struck me as a mistake, and we later see that it'll throw serious kinks in Ben's plan to get the O6 back to the island. Sayid's rage toward Ben is driven by the death of Nadia, and by the vile things Ben had him do. Just as we the viewers are trusting in Ben's master plan to reunite everyone, it appears that Sayid's mistrust in him is going to make getting everyone back to the island a season-long process.

Important here is that Sayid's would-be assailants have been tasked with bringing him back alive (unfortunately for them). Assuming they work for Widmore, he realizes that Sayid (and Hurley) are an integral part of once again finding the island. Possessing them would also bring Ben out of the woodwork. Miles even states that it took Widmore twenty years to find the island 'the first time', and seems to hint that he's not going to stop until he finds it again.

What Comes Around Goes Around
Great line! Richard's character keeps getting better and better, and his meeting with Locke solidifies the fact that LOST's characters themselves are skipping through the island's timeline. And as it turns out, items can travel with them too. The bullet Ethan fired into Locke's leg is still there when Richard finds him in the future, and the compass he gives him makes the trip back to the past. Richard's sole interests are the island, and as appointed protector of the island that's now where Locke's loyalties lie as well. Apparently the island itself is in danger, and the only way to save it is to get the O6 back.

Despite repeated admonishments from Daniel and Ms. Hawking, this is the first nagging indication (this season anyway) that time can in fact be changed. If everything that happens is destined to happen anyway, why would Richard be running hellbent through the jungle to give Locke important information between timeskips? It can be argued of course, that that's how it 'happened' the first time so it's just happening all over again. Still, everything points to the fact that the Oceanic Six were definitely not supposed to leave. This very statement seems to infer that there was an original scenario (the desired scenario?) where they actually did NOT leave. Only by bringing them back can the island's current situation be 'fixed'... but perhaps there's another way. Maybe changing the fact that they left at all can accomplish the same thing?

In the end Locke asks how he's going to convince Jack, Kate and the others to come back at all. His track record isn't exactly good with them at this point. Richard responds by telling him that he'll have to die to accomplish this, which is something we already know. Why he has to die, or how that happens, are questions for the end of the season

Mugen910

01-22-2009, 02:57 PM

You'd Best Explain Why You You've Been Banging on my Door, Brotha!
A bunch of stuff happens here. First, Charlotte's nosebleed. This is an ominous indication that all this timeskipping might have bad repercussions later on. Maybe Charlotte's in need of a constant, but that doesn't make much sense because it seems that Faraday could easily fill that role. Her headaches and memory loss later in the 2nd episode are in indication that things are 'getting worse' - Daniel's exact words from last season during the card flipping scene.

Next, Daniel leaves his pack behind. This doesn't seem intentional, but it's important because it allows him an excuse to see Desmond alone. The fact that Saywer didn't meet Desmond at the door can be attributed to Daniel's statement of "If it didn't happen, it can't happen"... but it can also be chalked up to Desmond needing about 20 minutes to put his protective suit on. "Are you him?" Dammit, I thought we were gonna finally get an answer to the snowman riddle here.

At this point, Faraday tosses aside all previous assertions that time cannot be changed and suddenly tells Desmond that he's special. He alone is uniquely qualified to change time, and for some reason the rules don't apply to him. I've theorized in past seasons that this is true, and that it happened the moment Desmond turned the failsafe key. Being at the epicenter of that event launched Desmond on his first trip to what seemed to be an *alternate* timeline (not a past or future timeline) in Flashes Before Your Eyes. In that episode he was completely certain of the outcome of a soccer game, yet the game ended differently than he remembered it. This was the first indication that things could be changed.

Even as Ms. Hawking showed up to convince Desmond that they could not, he went on to keep Charlie from dying. Course correction might've killed him in the end, but not before Charlie (who was suspiciously the only person who could've done so) turned off the jamming device. This led to the freighter finding the island, and the Oceanic 6 being able to leave. It can be easily argued that Desmond caused all of this to happen, through his knowledge of future events. He can, and already has, changed the rules. Desmond is identified as the magic person who can 'make his own kind of music'. My overly long and analytical theory regarding the rest of this can be found at the end of the review.

And Stay Away from the Cops...
How funny was it to watch Ana Lucia (of all people) telling Hurley not to get arrested? One of Hurley's main character flaws is his self-doubt. He needs to establish a believe in himself. The apparent ghosts of Charlie, Eko, and Ana Lucia might be trying to guide him in the right direction, but he doubts them because of who he is, and where he's been - a wacky island and a mental institution. When he finally opens up to his mother, he spills everything out in one big rambling blur of seemingly impossible events. Yet his mother believes him. She admits she doesn't fully understand, but she's close enough to Hugo enough to know that he's telling the truth. A mom like that rocks. This helps Hurley get over 'the lie'. Unfortunately for the master plan, this further influences his decision to disobey Ben, defy Ana Lucia, and be arrested by the cops anyway.

woH emoC ehT srepsihW ereW semitemoS sdrawkcaB?
Because we can now guess that they came from a time in the future. Dripping Walt, Kate's nighttime phone call... considering that the islanders can skip forward as well as backward in time, this suddenly seems to make a hell of a lot more sense. How voices, messages, and images can be cast backward like that to arrive at their destinations is still a mystery - but maybe someday we'll learn something about the infamous 'remote viewing device'.

It Looks Like you Heart Them.
Hahahahaha!!! Because lucky for Hurley, every gas station stocks 3XL T-shirts. I hope that shirt lasts out the season and makes it all the way back to the island. We should start a pool on what Sawyer's first line would be.

Thank God for Flaming Arrows
Back on the beach it was a close race as to who was annoying me the most. Rose and Bernard were doing a good job whining at each other, but then Frogurt really took over and made a giant dick of himself. The flaming arrows were a welcome relief from the irritating dialogue and lame attempt at some sort of comedy. And once again the writers spent the lives of another batch of red shirts while the cool kids all got away.

Presumably these are more others toting the standard issue WWII rifles we've seen in seasons past. They've got zero tolerance for outsiders and Ethan's patience for explanation. Locke showing up to save Sawyer and Juliet was pretty cool, and his knife throwing skills are still solid. That they would've chopped Juliet's arm off wasn't even a question. But the fact that they didn't recognize Juliet indicated they must've jumped to a time period before she arrived on the island.

No Country for Old Ben
Sometime during his jaunts to the real world, Ben took in a movie or two. He hides his mystery bag in the air vent, No Country for Old Men-style, either to keep it from enemies or to keep it from Jack. When telling Jack to go home for a few hours, he reminds him: 'If there's anything in this life you want, pack it in there because you're never coming back'. Does this mean once Jack goes back to the island he's staying there forever? Not necessarily. We've heard references to 'another life' so many times, it's hard to brush over Ben's interesting use of the phrase 'this life'. I'm more inclined to think that once they've gone back, the timeline they're currently in might completely cease to exist (which would be extremely convenient for Hurley the serial-killer). If Jack ever gets off the island again after that, it'll be in an entirely different (another) life. Does that sound kooky? Let me remind you we're traveling through time now... so not many things should sound kooky at this point.

It was also cool to see just how many contacts Ben still maintains in the outside world, if there even is an outside world (hmmm... did I just say that?) Not only was Jill sitting there waiting for Ben, she knew exactly what he had in the van and why he had it. I also thought it pretty rad how Ben pointedly defended Jack when Jill made snide remarks toward his addiction to pills. Although everyone's always been a pawn in Ben's giant chessgame, he realizes they've been through a lot of crap together. Maybe he's got a heart after all.

My Big Long Chunky Theory About Ben, Hawking, and Desmond
Okay, since we know a hell of a lot more now than we ever did before, let's put some things in perspective. Widmore sent Desmond to the island. This seems to indicate he knew in advance that Desmond would be the game-changer. Perhaps powerless at the time of the boat race, maybe Widmore knew Desmond's abilities would come with the turning of the failsafe key. He alone would be instrumental in allowing the island to be found again. Desmond was the monkey wrench in the machinery of the island, tossed there by Widmore.

On the flip side, Ben is the person currently protecting and hiding the island. Desmond arrives on the beach, and before his clothes are even dry he is squirreled away to the Swan Hatch and kept there by threats of disease and impending world destruction. Pressing a button every 108 minutes, Desmond's going nowhere soon. Ben writes him off as harmless until the 815'ers show up to change Desmond's situation. Ben counted on the timer expiring, and the resulting Swan Hatch implosion... but Ben did NOT count on the turning of the failsafe key. Desmond wakes up buck naked in the jungle - the only character we've ever seen this happen to. He goes through a special type of island baptism or rebirth, and it looks like this is where he's imparted with the unique power to change things.

After the hatch implosion, Desmond is also catapulted though time to another point in his life. Pushing the button sucked, so he happily decides to change things, buy a ring, and stay with Penny. That's when Ms. Hawking shows up, vehemently urging Desmond to dump Penny and head to the Swan Hatch anyway, almost as if it were a given that he would do so. When he's hesitant, she seems worried and annoyed. According to her own course-correction theory, she shouldn't have to be worried... no matter what choice Desmond makes, the button would eventually get pushed by someone. Yet Hawking definitely *was* worried - a violation of her own conjecture. She knew Desmond could, and would, change things - unless he was thoroughly convinced that he could not.

So now you've got Ben and Hawking on one side, trying to keep things status quo. They're the keepers of the island's time loop, which has gone on and on... explaining how they know just about everything before it happens. Widmore and company have been trying to change things in order to find the island and perhaps get to the end game. You've got Richard and the Others acting under the order of Jacob (I'm no longer convinced Ben is, or even ever was, acting in Jacob's interests), and right now Jacob's agenda is still up in the air. And finally you've got Locke, rising to his fulfill his destiny as the once and future leader of the Others. Which I suppose puts his mission in line with whatever Jacob is planning. Somewhere in there is the smoke monster, a leftover remnant from the four-toed era, chewing on people from both sides.

If anyone disagrees with me, I'm open to other interpretations. I love this ****.

Ms. Hawkings, a Pendulum, and Some Very Serious High-Level Mathematics
It appears that disrupting the historic course of the island has sent things spinning toward an impending, disastrous end. As Hawking tells Ben in the big revealing scene: "Seventy hours is what you've got". If we assume this season ends with the O6 returning to the island, then the entire story arc of our season will fit into less than three days. Three off-island days, that is. Who knows how much time that translates to in Sawyer/Juliet/Locke hours. But if Jack's group fails to get back in time, Hawkings 'Every single one of us will be dead' prophecy seems like it will be fulfilled. Doesn't this finally put Ben on the good guy team? If not I'm not sure what does.

The Last Two Seasons
This opener paves the way for what should be the coolest two seasons ever. The story has evolved so that Eko, Charlie, Libby, Shannon, Boone... even Joanna the drowned girl can show up at any time. I look forward to these fun moments, like when Ana Lucia bent down to peer into Hurley's car. And like the rest of you guys, I look forward to LOST finally unraveling many of its best and oldest mysteries.

Mugen910

01-23-2009, 07:59 AM

Subject: LOST 5 - ep. 1, 2 items to ponder
1. Since the very first season Locke has routinely popped up in the jungle without a sound surprising people, which we attributed to his hunting skills. In fact, when Locke appears to Sayid in Season 1 (ep. "Hearts and Minds") he tosses Sayid a compass and says "I don't need this anymore." In fact there are no footsteps, but instead a sudden and loud swish of bushes the very instant Locke appears. However, Locke is sweaty and out of breath, but nonetheless claims "I am sneakier than I give myself credit" and holding a knife like he was chasing something. Perhaps Locke was time-traveling. It would explain why sometimes Locke seems so confident and wise (the time-traveling Locke), and why sometimes he seems so insecure and weak (the plane-crashed Locke before he time-traveled) ~ we were seeing Locke sometimes in the present and sometimes from the future.

2. Rousseau has mentioned that the Others do not leave footprints and that in 16 years she never saw them. I believe this is further evidence that they were time traveling.

3. Likewise, when Jack comes upon the casket in "White Rabbit," we assume it to be his father's. However, perhaps it is Locke's casket. The two men's caskets are similar... plain casket with white lining.

4. Sawyer got a thorn in his (dirty) foot. Maybe it gets infected and he becomes the inspiration for the 4-toed statue??? :O
5. Ben told Jack to get his belongings and they would meet up in 6 hours. Next, we see Ben, presumably, in England talking with Ms. Hawking. SO... either Ms. Hawking is NOT Daniel Faraday's mother or else she is no longer in England and is in the LA area.

6. Speaking of Faraday's mother... we can assume by the end of the episode that his mother is Ms. Hawking, but since he never said his mother's name what if it was... Radzinsky. Remember that Radzinsky was the partner of Kelvin who occupied the hatch before Desmond (and drew the blast door map). Radzinsky blew his own brains out in the hatch (Kelvin showed Desmond the blood stain on the ceiling). What if Faraday's mother was his wife and they were on the island as part of the Dharma Initiative? Just thinking of other possibilities, although it looks like we are safe to assume that his mother is, in fact, Ms. Hawking.

7. More on Faraday. He was not lying when he said you cannot change the past and even if you try it won't work. Remember when Locke was trying to climb up to the drug plane and Ethan shot him? If Locke had been "allowed" to make it to the plane, he probably would have tipped it out of the tree. Which means Boone would never have gone into the plane and died. But since you CANNOT change what has already happened, the universe made sure that Locke didn't make it up the tree into the plane. Also remember when Locke and Boone found the drug plane initially? Locke suddenly had something wrong with his leg and could not get up to the plane so Boone had to - maybe Locke was there before and got hurt. Also, in a previous episode, Locke had a dream that he was climbing up to the plane... which never happened until this week's show...

8. You can't go back in time and save flight 815, because that would cause a second time "string" as Faraday says. It already crashed, you can't change that. But what if you went back in time, saved 815, but also replaced it with a duplicate? Like Widmore did? If you believe Ben.

9. Speaking of Ben... I like the idea that it was Ben who sent those men to Kate's house to inquire about Aaron's maternity. He gave her reason to run... where to? The island!

10. In the episode "Fire and Water" Charlie had a dream where his father is seen working as a butcher chopping dolls with a cleaver. In Wednesday night's episode Ben goes to the butcher shop where Jill is working. What's with all the butchers? :)

11. In the very first scene we see Dr. Candle/ Halliwax/ Wickman with his family. Who is his baby? Is it Miles???

12. In case you forgot... Neil was mentioned in a previous episode as owning a frozen yogurt shop... hence Sawyer's nickname Frogurt. :)

13. A Ms. Hawking refresher... While looking for an engagement ring at an antique store, Desmond meets Ms. Hawking. She surprises him by telling him his future: he doesn't buy the ring, he breaks Penny's heart, and ends up on the island pushing the button that saves the world until he's forced to turn the fail safe key. He can try to deny it or alter events but the universe has a way of course correcting. It is his path. He's supposed to go to the island. She says that if he "doesn't do those things", that "every single one of us is dead".

ucla695

01-23-2009, 09:03 AM

Great info Bao!

kaisersozei

01-23-2009, 09:42 AM

Is it just me, or.....

did anyone notice that when Locke is climbing the hill after his first time-shift, the island behind him is much bigger than we had ever seen before? In previous episodes when a character was on high ground, you could generally see a coastline and got the sense they were actually on an island. In this scene, the island stretches for mile & miles into the distance behind him.

Did the island grow? Did it move elsewhere? Early in the series, there was speculation that the island wasn't really an island per se. Could something have been revealed here?

ActionAndy

01-23-2009, 09:52 AM

I kept wondering about the Frogurt nickname, it's the only Sawyer joke I didn't get in the entire season.

Cigargal

01-23-2009, 12:01 PM

Bao, I am speechless.

Mugen910

01-23-2009, 12:16 PM

Bao, I am speechless.

sorry chica!

dannysguitar

01-23-2009, 12:31 PM

You have opened my eyes to this whole time travel theory.

Mugen910

01-27-2009, 01:28 PM

Subject: LOST - some research after last week's epi.

According to Michio Kaku (a popular theoretical physicist) the equations on Ms. Hawking's chalk board were probability equations and they were for determining radiation effect which could mean the wormhole was becoming unstable...70 hours may be all the time they have left before the exotic matter becomes uncontrollable and destroys the earth.
***
The pendulum that Ms. Hawkings was using to determine Ben's time window may have been a Foucault pendulum.
From Wikipedia: The Foucault pendulum (pronounced "foo-KOH"), named after the French physicist Léon Foucault, was conceived as an experiment to demonstrate the rotation of the Earth.
***
When Sun and Kate met up in Sun's hotel room, why did Sun show Kate a baby picture of Ji Yeon? Ji Yeon would have been like 2 years old by that time. Just something interesting...
***
Remember when Ben asked Jill (the butcher shop lady) if Gabriel and Jeffrey were back yet? What if Gabriel and Jeffrey are the men who showed up at Kate's door for the blood sample?!
***
A refresher on Dr. Marvin Candle/ Wickmund/ Change/ Halliwax's arm (we still don't know why he used different names). Remember that we have seen him with a prosthetic left arm at times. Here is a list of the different videos we have seen him narrate, in the order that we saw them, and the status of that left arm:

The Swan Hatch film (the "push the button" hatch) - fake arm
The Pearl Hatch film (the "sit around and watch the other hatches" hatch) - real arm
The Flame Hatch film (the "Mikhail's security hatch, which Locke blew up" hatch - fake arm
The Barracks film (the Dharma living quarters) - could not see the left arm
The Orchid Hatch film (the time experiment hatch) - real arm
The Arrow Hatch film (the "gather intelligence and devise defensive strategies against the Island's hostiles" hatch) - real

In the video released last summer he talked about an "incident" and looked down at his left arm, which was real. Apparently he knew at that time that he would lose that arm in the future. I am assuming that the Swan Hatch and the Flame Hatch were installed after the "incident" since they needed the Swan Hatch button to be pushed to release some energy to prevent another incident. That would explain why they implemented the button-pushing.
So, I think when we saw him last week he was filming the Arrow Hatch orientation film and it was when the construction crew was just beginning drilling by the "energy core" which would have been before the incident.

MikeyC

01-27-2009, 04:25 PM

A refresher on Dr. Marvin Candle/ Wickmund/ Change/ Halliwax's arm (we still don't know why he used different names). Remember that we have seen him with a prosthetic left arm at times. Here is a list of the different videos we have seen him narrate, in the order that we saw them, and the status of that left arm:

I don't know how I missed that he sometimes had a prosthetic arm. :bh

dunng

01-28-2009, 08:00 PM

Bao, mind sharing where to sing up for these? Thanks! :ss

TheJ

01-29-2009, 01:27 AM

The season opener left much to be desired, but last night's episode was excellent. It ended too prematurely.

Mugen910

01-29-2009, 07:02 AM

Bao, mind sharing where to sing up for these? Thanks! :ss
Just subscribe to this thread...my friend who sends me this info does a lot of investigative work on many LOST forums to compile this. :tu

The season opener left much to be desired, but last night's episode was excellent. It ended too prematurely.

I was confused and shocked also at the brevity of the episode.

ActionAndy

01-29-2009, 07:06 AM

Mugen910

01-29-2009, 07:08 AM

Hopefully Charlotte's dead, I can't stand that troll. No redeeming qualities at all. And how long can the writers stretch out this frustrating refusal to have characters answer questions? I'm talking about Juliet.

"How old is he."
"Old."

Ok, we GET IT. You're wise and mysterious.

I agree Charlotte's not a looker but they gotta give the nerd some type of love interest...:D

I just attributed Juliet's answer to the reality of her not knowing the true age of Richard.

dunng

01-29-2009, 07:09 AM

Just subscribe to this thread...my friend who sends me this info does a lot of investigative work on many LOST forums to compile this. :tu

Much appreciated, thanks! :tu

ActionAndy

01-29-2009, 07:28 AM

I agree Charlotte's not a looker but they gotta give the nerd some type of love interest...:D

I just attributed Juliet's answer to the reality of her not knowing the true age of Richard.

I know, tis true. It's a hard thing to deal with as a writer, I bet. On one hand you have to make Locke realistic enough to ASK Juliet how old Richard is...But on the other you can't very well have all the questions answered so easily. Still I think Standard Others Dialogue is getting a bit old, if only for the reason that she has (supposedly) switched teams..

In the end it doesn't matter because she's a stone cold fox and I'm shallow.

Mugen910

01-29-2009, 07:43 AM

In the end it doesn't matter because she's a stone cold fox and I'm shallow.

You and I sir are on the same boat here! :dr

kaisersozei

01-29-2009, 09:01 AM

You and I sir are on the same boat here! :dr

I'm with you on this one, brothers. :dance:

And I attribute Juliet's knowledge to the same place she learned to speak Latin--Others 101. :r

MikeyC

01-29-2009, 09:48 AM

You and I sir are on the same boat here! :dr

:tpd:

I have to say my favorite part of the episode was when we learned that we were looking at a young Charles Wittmore.

Mugen910

01-29-2009, 12:10 PM

Season 5 Episode 3 "Jughead"

1. Charles Widmore was... (dun dun dun)... an Other?! :O He was kind of a punk back then so maybe he ends up getting kicked off the island then goes on to form the Dharma Initiative to find and study the island's paranormal properties? Then, in the future, Ben (who was a Dharma employee) turned on Dharma and killed everyone (the purge). This would explain why Widmore wants to kill Ben. Revenge for Ben killing Widmore's entire crew and their families, destroying all the work Dharma had done. See the attached photo for the polar bear painting in Widmore's office.

2. I'm really starting to think that Widmore isn't the bad guy. Sure, he's a prick, but last night he just basically told Desmond to go away with Penny and keep her safe. I think he might really be trying to protect/ preserve the island rather than exploit it like previously thought. Older Widmore seems unconcerned with keeping or holding Desmond, but maybe that's because he truly has an interest in Penny's well being. He knows that Desmond is with her and will always protect her. In a way, Desmond is a great insurance policy. He's the game-changer, meaning there's no one better when it comes to keeping bad things from happening.

3. Speaking of Widmore, we now know why Ben and Widmore can't kill each other (remember when Ben confronted Widmore during the night in his hotel room). They discussed the "rules" and acknowledged that they cannot kill each other. The Others, as we know, cannot kill each other or at least are not allowed to and anyone who does is marked (like Juliet was when she killed Pickett). The rules are not game rules, like a game of Risk. The rules are what the Others live by. Oh, maybe that's why he gets kicked off the island in the first place (if he did actually get kicked off)! Because he killed the other Other (by breaking his neck) when that Other started to reveal where the Other's camp was.

4. Desmond and Penny's baby was named Charlie (Charlie Pace) :)

5. We now know why Richard visited Locke as a baby (the day he was born) and again as a child and gave him the "leader test." Locke told him to!

6. Apparently Faraday used his friend/companion/ girlfriend Theresa as a guinea pig for these time experiments. Remember that Boone and Shannon had a babysitter named Theresa. In season one Shannon had a dream where Boone repeated "Theresa falls up the stairs. Theresa falls down the stairs." Creepy.

7. If you want to read more about the Jughead bomb see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_17_nuclear_bomb

8. The military clothing worn by the Others were taken from the US soldiers that they killed. The uniforms were mid-20th Century US Army or National Guard uniforms with nametape. The uniform that Widmore wore had a nametape that read "Jones."

9. Why Charlotte is sick: Remember from The Constant (Desmond episode) that it was explained why Sayid didn't fall sick and Desmond did was because Desmond was exposed to radiation when The Swan imploded. And he needed a constant to counteract it. Also remember that Daniel and Charlotte were in protective suits when they went to The Tempest to disable the nerve gas (last season). Charlotte and Juliet got into a fight and Juliet pulled off Charlotte's protective mask. Daniel hasn't gotten sick because he made contact with his constant, Desmond. But Charlotte doesn't have a constant.
Why has Juliet had these symptoms if she was exposed to the same air? Maybe because she's been on the island longer than Charlotte. Proximity to the island may help you hold off the disease longer. However, not as long as those that haven't been exposed to radiation. Not sure about this...

Mugen910

01-29-2009, 12:13 PM

10. Ms. Hawking's first name was revealed to be Eloise in the enhanced version of last week's episode which played last night at 8pm. This should ring a bell!!! Faraday's rat (who he experimented on) was named Eloise! Also, the young, female Other from the island is named Ellie... as in short for Eloise. I think we just saw that both Widmore and Ms. Hawking were once Others together at the same time. :O This could explain why Widmore funded Faraday's research. Widmore was an Other along with Ms. Hawking who appears to be Faraday's mother.

11. Unanswered questions, there are still so many... who are the Adam and Eve skeletons from the caves, what is the Smoke Monster, who built that 4-toed statue, what is up with Christian Shepherd, why did Jack find an empty coffin on the island, why was Christian Shepherd wearing white sneakers with a suit on the island, how can Miles talk to the dead, just how old is Richard and where does he buy his eyeliner, who is Jacob, etc...

12. It seems as though Richard had no idea of the time travel abilities of the island at the time of the bomb however soon after it seems as if he's jumping around time and knows of time-travel. The suggestion that Faraday has is for them to bury the bomb.
Could it be possible that this bomb's explosion underground could be the cause of the vast amount of energy that has caused all the time travel and strange happenings on the island?
13. Remember the frozen donkey wheel that Ben turned to move the island? Doesn't it look like an old ship's wheel? Perhaps the Black Rock's?

14. Anyone remember the scene from The Other 48 Days, where Ana Lucia talks to Goodwin about that US Army knife she found? This episode answered how it got there.

15. It appears that Neil (Frogurt) was not on the Zodiak when Faraday was headed to the freighter, but that he was on it when they were returning to the island.... see the attached photos. Could just be a production error, but thought I'd mention it.

16. Taken from a message board: Going WAY back to the very first episode of LOST: "the captain of flight 815 wears WWII pilot's wings. This alone could be chalked up to nostalgia, but then so do the flight attendants, and so does that rotten traitorous flight-attendant Cindy. These wings were issued to airmen only during the WWII era, and were changed just afterward. There's no logical reason for everyone on board to have a pair. In that pilot episode, the camera focuses specifically on the wings when Kate finds them in the jungle."

17. And now take the librarian (see attached photo Libarian 2) from this week, who happens to be the very same woman who Hurley hugs right before he gets on flight 815 (see attached photo Librarian 1). The library screencaps are hard to see but she was played by the same actress. Remember back when Hurley was getting on flight 815. She actually uses the phone and checks with someone named Hunter before letting Hurley on the flight, telling him that it's his lucky day. Was Hurley supposed to make the flight? The woman at the other counter didn't seem to think so. But Jenna helps get him on the plane, even after the jetway closed. I'm guessing that these repeatedly used characters have been implanting themselves at various points throughout time, showing up at the right moment(s) to help the main characters accomplish certain necessary tasks.

18. Someone is claiming...Behind Richard is what appears to be the Geiger counter... and I say "the" because we've already seen it with Desmond in the Swan hatch. What doesn't make sense is why the Geiger counter shows up in Locke's apartment during his flashback in Season 1. Hmmm. [I can't find screencaps to support this claim]

19. "Jughead" could very well be what's behind the Swan Hatch's concrete wall that Sayid found way back in season 2. The Others took Faraday's advice and buried it in concrete.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/3236471931_b02bd88cc3_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3438/3236471933_bc99bc910f_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3133/3236471929_2f312db925_o.jpg

Mugen910

01-29-2009, 12:14 PM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3497/3236471939_e264df5d78_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/3236471941_879059d185_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/3236471937_16666c97aa_o.jpg

Cigargal

01-29-2009, 05:20 PM

Is the baby named Charlie after Grandpa Widmore or his friend Charlie from the island who drowned trying to help them all get off the island?

Mugen910

01-29-2009, 05:38 PM

Is the baby named Charlie after Grandpa Widmore or his friend Charlie from the island who drowned trying to help them all get off the island?

I will assume they tell Grandpa one thing but everyone else another. ;)

Cigargal

01-29-2009, 05:48 PM

Since he didn't even tell grandpa about the boy I am going to go with Charlie from the island. Which on an interesting note...in the preview before the season opener and in any of the flashbacks Charlie doesn't appear. Even when they focus on Claire and her baby-no Charlie. It is like he never was in the show.

Mugen910

01-30-2009, 11:57 AM

Mugen910

01-30-2009, 11:58 AM

Good stuff from popular mechanics. Read just the last 2 paragraphs if you are short on time...
***

Last night's episode of Lost, "Jughead," had its fair share of "Holy cow, what did he just say!?" moments. Like when we learned that uber-rich (and uber-mysterious) businessman Charles Widmore was funding physicist Daniel Faraday's time travel research. Or that Widmore himself was once a Latin-speaking Other on the very island he's spent the last 20 years trying to find. And then there's that little fact that, oh my, there's a nuclear bomb on the island!

It's that newest introduction of the island's itinerary of strange objects that we're looking at today (we can only hope an explanation for that four-toed statue is still to come). While being held captive with Charlotte and Miles, Faraday decides the key to their survival is to let the Others continue to assume that their motley, multi-ethnic crew is a part of the American military-but they're not just standard troops, they're scientists, sent there to recover their hydrogen bomb. We asked nuclear bomb expert Ivan Oelrich, vice president for the strategic security program at the Federation of American Scientists, to give us a primer on the workings of hydrogen bombs and to weigh in on whether last night's plot was as realistic as Widmore sinking a plane in waters too deep for recovery or if it's as unlikely as Hurley throwing out a jug of Dharma ranch dressing.

Before we begin, here's a little nuclear weapon history: The bombs the US dropped on Japan during WWII, "Little Boy" and "Fat Man," were not hydrogen bombs; those were atom bombs, a different kind of nuclear weapon. An atom bomb relies on nuclear fission to create its explosion, while a hydrogen bomb relies on fusion (though much of the explosive energy is also created through fission), and is many times more powerful. No H-bomb has ever been detonated against an enemy, but the US has tested them. A series of thermonuclear weapon tests that took place on the Marshall Islands in the South Pacific in the 1950s was called "Operation Castle." The first attempt at a dry-fuel thermonuclear hydrogen bomb device, an operation called "Castle Bravo," was successfully detonated on March 1, 1954 at Bikini Atoll in the Marshall Islands. Because of Castle Bravo's early success, a second type of nuclear weapon, a cryogenic hydrogen bomb, was not tested. That group included a cryogenic h-bomb nicknamed, that's right, "Jughead."

Radiation Burns from Proximity to a Hydrogen Bomb
Faraday is able to deduce that there's a bomb on the island by glancing at the bandaged hands of one of the Others, which he tells Alpert are radiation burns, indicating that the housing has been compromised. However, getting radiation burns from simply being near a hydrogen bomb-compromised or not-isn't possible. "People think that the fuel that drives an atomic bomb must be intensely radioactive, but in fact it's not," Oelrich says. "It becomes radioactive after the reaction." Basically, if the bomb was emitting the kind and quantity of radiation that would burn someone, more than this gentleman would be affected. "Part of the problem of detecting nuclear weapons is that they don't emit much radiation," Oerlrich says, "It would be kind of nice if they emitted a lot of radiation because then you could just hold a Geiger counter over it and say 'Ah ha! Someone is trying to get a nuclear bomb into the country!' But it's not like that." Of course, there's always the chance that those burns were incurred through exposure to a different source of radioactive material.

Leaky Housing
When Faraday is first brought to the bomb, he climbs the tower housing it with the caution one would expect when near a nuclear weapon, but he's not particularly worried. It's not until he spots the foamy material leaking through a seam in the casing that he starts to freak. "It's unsafe, we need to move," he says to Ellie, the Other assigned to watch him, and tells her to back up. If you're unversed in the workings of hydrogen bombs, you'd assume that any leakage is bad news. And that's correct, to a certain extent. "It is not as if there are quantities of liquids in a nuclear weapon that would corrode out," explains Oelrich. "If I saw that coming out, I would assume that some battery had corroded, acid had escaped, and corroded some other material, like a plastic, and leaked out." While he personally thinks it's not likely, Oelrich admits that it is possible. But if this "Jughead" is indeed supposed to be the cyrogenic "Jughead" that was part of Operation Castle, it would be most likely that this seepage was some of the foam insulation that somehow dissolved, Oelrich says.

From here, there are two ways this bomb could be dangerous: First, it might be leaking plutonium, which can be dangerous if you inhale or ingest it. Oelrich speculates that if it is indeed a battery that is leaking, plutonium leakage is more likely. "If acid from a battery leaked, then it might dissolve the plutonium into a form that could leak out," he speculates. Secondly, as Oelrich puts it, "it's a bomb-it's also dangerous if it blows up!" In the most basic terms, here's how a nuclear bomb works: Surrounding a ball of plutonium is another ball of very carefully arranged explosives. When those first explosives go off in a perfectly timed synch-designing this first explosion is the most difficult part of building a bomb-it squeezes the plutonium down, making it super dense and thus setting off the nuclear explosion. If just part of the conventional detonator was to be set off-say by a stray bullet fired by trigger-happy Other Ellie-the high explosive might be set off, but a nuclear explosion would probably not happen. "Worst case is that you would scatter plutonium around, which would still be dangerous, but it would be a lot better that the alternative," explains Oelrich.

Rendering a Hydrogen Bomb Inert
Faraday gets the Others to lead him to the bomb by saying that he can "render it inert." The first step would be to disable the detonator. "It depends on the particular design of the bomb," explains Oelrich, "but in the 1950s you would be able to see the detonator wires. The first thing to do would be to cut them so it wouldn't set the bomb off symmetrically." Then, says Oelrich, to quell any worry of the device accidentally exploding somehow, you'd ruin the explosives. "If it were me, I would soak the high explosive in water or dissolve it with alcohol. I'm just worried that explosives can accidentally go off. There's not a big chance of it, but if it's attached to a hydrogen bomb, well, that would ruin your whole day." Once the explosives are taken care of, you have to take care of all that radioactive material? That's where the lead and concrete come in. As Faraday suggested, burying the disabled bomb underground in a lead or cement housing would contain any radiation the bomb might be emitting now or in the future. Eventually, however, the plutonium could leak into the ground water, and since it will be dangerous for hundreds of thousands of years and concrete might last hundreds, burying the bomb would not be a permanent solution.

Of course, the Lost-aways left for another place in time before we found out if they actually buried Jughead-but not before John Locke urged Richard Alpert to visit him when he is born, two years in the future, to prove that Locke actually is the leader of the Others (cue gasps, goosebumps and "Cabin Fever" flashbacks here)-so the bomb could still be out there, somewhere. Uncontained, there are a couple of things radiation can do: Cause radiation sickness, cure cancer, maybe even have ill effects on pregnant women. We'll let you connect the dots from here.

dannysguitar

01-30-2009, 01:28 PM

WOW! Super informative! Thanks!

ActionAndy

02-05-2009, 08:24 AM

The name on the side of last night's van (Canton/Reinier) can be unscrambled to spell "Reincarnation." Just a cool little easter egg/possible hint.

Anyone else want Faraday dead? Other than hating the actor with all my heart, I'm sick of his coy little "Uh, er, I? I don't know?" answers. Stop it. Stop being cute. Fix something.

Mugen910

02-05-2009, 08:38 AM

Ollie

02-05-2009, 08:42 AM

[QUOTE=Mugen910;201752]Season 5 Episode 3 "Jughead"

[i]1. Charles Widmore was... (dun dun dun)... an Other?! :O He was kind of a punk back then so maybe he ends up getting kicked off the island then goes on to form the Dharma Initiative to find and study the island's paranormal properties? Then, in the future, Ben (who was a Dharma employee) turned on Dharma and killed everyone (the purge). This would explain why Widmore wants to kill Ben. Revenge for Ben killing Widmore's entire crew and their families, destroying all the work Dharma had done. See the attached photo for the polar bear painting in Widmore's office.
QUOTE]

I get the feeling Widmore was the other's leader immediately before Ben, and like Ben had to sacrifice his life there to save the island for some reason.

ActionAndy

02-05-2009, 08:43 AM

haha...by him fixing something he may be the hero of the story..then you'll really be pissed.;)

You're right that would really trip my trigger. He's such a shitty actor. I used to be on another forum, a lot like this but for Losties, and I had to stop posting there because of how many people were all about this Faraday character. Watch any movie where this guy appears and he's playing Faraday. The only slight exception is Saving Private Ryan, so i guess it takes the likes of Spielberg to reel in this bumbling douche. Rant over. :)

kaisersozei

02-05-2009, 09:53 AM

The only slight exception is Saving Private Ryan, so i guess it takes the likes of Spielberg to reel in this bumbling douche. Rant over. :)

Talk about a bumbling douche, I think he's even MORE Faraday-like in SPR. I can't stand his useless little character in that film, must be why I can't stand him in Lost. If Faraday is such a genius in quantum physics, then start spilling the beans about your freakin' theories, bub, instead of playing nursemate to your dying girlfriend. Which pretty much just consists of wiping blood off her face and shaking her unconscious body. Some genius you seem to be--about on par with your soldiering skills in SPR. Useless.

/rant :D

dannysguitar

02-05-2009, 10:02 AM

You guys are hillarious!

Mugen910

02-05-2009, 10:10 AM

I have to agree..I hate ,with a passion, his character in SPR...

ActionAndy

02-05-2009, 10:26 AM

Talk about a bumbling douche, I think he's even MORE Faraday-like in SPR. I can't stand his useless little character in that film, must be why I can't stand him in Lost. If Faraday is such a genius in quantum physics, then start spilling the beans about your freakin' theories, bub, instead of playing nursemate to your dying girlfriend. Which pretty much just consists of wiping blood off her face and shaking her unconscious body. Some genius you seem to be--about on par with your soldiering skills in SPR. Useless.

/rant :D

"Durr durr, can I bring my typewriter?"

Oh yeah sure, bring your ****in' typewriter out to war, just in case you get a brilliant idea for a novel. What is he some sort of beat poet?

Today it drizzled, grey skies: Germans mean business, can knife fight.

Waynegro1

02-05-2009, 11:59 AM

You're right that would really trip my trigger. He's such a shitty actor. I used to be on another forum, a lot like this but for Losties, and I had to stop posting there because of how many people were all about this Faraday character. Watch any movie where this guy appears and he's playing Faraday. The only slight exception is Saving Private Ryan, so i guess it takes the likes of Spielberg to reel in this bumbling douche. Rant over. :)

I couldn't agree more. Faraday is a Foucault (pronounced [Foo-Koh]):r:r

Mugen910

02-06-2009, 08:23 AM

Lost Update for Season 5 Episode 4 "Little Prince"

Not many Easter Eggs but a lot of speculation and theorizing this time...

1. Something that I just can't let go of... the only time we saw Daniel Faraday in the U.S., he looked depressed and scruffy in Massachusetts under the watch of a caretaker. When he saw a news report covering the discovery of the Oceanic Flight 815 wreckage, he became visibly upset, but he himself was unaware of the reason. Was he bouncing in time at that point and needed to make contact with his constant Desmond? Faraday confuses me...

2. This episode was titled "The Little Prince." There is a french (as in Rousseau) children's story called "The Little Prince" about a boy who lives on an asteroid named "Besixdouze" or B612 (just like the wreckage from Rousseau's ship). The little prince leaves his asteroid to see what the rest of the universe is like, and visits six other asteroids (6, like the Oceanic 6). The 7th place he visits is Earth, where he meets a desert flower who tells him that there are only a handful of men on earth and that they have no roots, which lets the wind blow them around making life hard on them (like the people unstuck in time on the island). In the end the little prince must die in order to return to the asteroid, just as John Locke has to die in order for the O6 to return to the Island.

3. Finally we see Danielle Rousseau's back story! Remember that her boyfriend is there and named Robert. There is also a fellow researcher named Montand who she says lost his arm. We heard his name mentioned last night when they pulled Jin out of the water. Remember Rousseau's radio transmission back from season 1 that she had to kill the rest of her crew because they contracted "the sickness"...

4. Speaking of Jin ... what does Jin's appearance mean to the storyline? If Rousseau's group had originally pulled Jin from the ocean, wouldn't she have recognized him all those years later when she met the 815 survivors back in Season One? But she didn't. And the fact that she didn't could very well mean that things have changed. Just as Richard doesn't recognize Locke later on, just as Ethan didn't seem to recognize Locke either... these future-to-past meetings seem to indicate that this is the first time these changes have occurred - at least within this time loop.

5. Remember that Juliet said learning Latin is "Others 101." The Blast Door Map from the Swan Hatch was labeled in Latin. See attached for a refresher on the Blast Door Map... seems like so long ago now.

6. While we're on hatches... Remember the Pearl Hatch... the one under the question mark where the occupants took notes on what the Swan Hatch occupants were doing? Fun fact: ''Pearl'' was the name of a character in the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical Starlight Express, an opus about an electric train set that comes to life. Each car of the train is personified by an actor. You know what part of the train Pearl is? Yep: the observation car.

7. The scene where the Losties found their camp abandoned was a flash of the future. The Ajira Airways bottle told us that another plane crashed. For a moment, let's imagine that the Flight 815'ers failed at whatever the island needed them to do. Going with Ms. Hawking's theory of course-correction, the island would still need to bring people to it. Jacob would still need some help. What we saw here was the next generation of LOST: one in which the plane that crashed came from India, one in which the crash survivors were just different people playing the same roles. Most things would occur along the same lines: they'd build a camp, they'd be terrorized by the smoke monster, there would be lots of fighting and gunfire. Eventually they'd find the remnants of the 815 camp and wonder what the hell it was, much the same way our characters found the Black Rock and the 4-toed statue. They'd also scrap with the Others - early and often.

8. Last week arguments raged regarding the paradox of "If Richard gave Locke the compass, and Richard had it because Locke gave it to him, then who had it in the first place?" Chicken or the egg? Very paradoxical... but only if you assume there can only be one compass. Although we never see two Lockes or two Sawyers, we can assume there were two of each of them on the island the night that Boone died. This means there can also be two compasses. Future Richard gave Locke his compass and told him to give it to past Richard. I'm guessing that when Locke made the hand-off, Richard already had his compass. So now he's holding two of them, identical to each other, lending weight and credence to Locke's time-traveler story. Future Richard did this to convince his past self that Locke wasn't crazy or lying.

9. This also explains the sudden appearances (and disappearances) of people like Goodwin's wife Harper. Remember how she showed up out of nowhere and disappeared just as fast. Perhaps Harper's skipping along just like our main island characters are right now. Imagine Claire and Kate seeing Sawyer peering at them through the jungle, then impossibly disappearing as he's flashed away. Kate and Claire wouldn't (and didn't) see the flash - only Sawyer did. He's trapped on the needle of a broken record, skipping along whenever it jumps. Take the appearance of Walt... talking to Shannon right before she's shot by Ana Lucia. He was picked up by the needle a long time ago, and has been skipping ever since. I can't wait to go back and watch this show from the beginning and pick up on all this stuff!

dunng

02-12-2009, 01:36 PM

:lv

TheJ

02-12-2009, 07:53 PM

Just watched the most recent episode this morning. It was the best one of the season.

Mugen910

02-12-2009, 08:49 PM

:lv
Sorry sorry sorry...been busy..I will post the LOST update tomorrow.
Posted via Mobile Device

dunng

02-12-2009, 09:11 PM

Sorry sorry sorry...been busy..I will post the LOST update tomorrow.
Posted via Mobile Device

Thank you! :D

ucla695

02-13-2009, 06:50 AM

It's getting better. I can't wait to read your update Bao.

Mugen910

02-13-2009, 06:54 AM

Season 5 Episode 5 "This place is death"

1. Just a blast from the past, but remember when "taller ghost" Walt appeared to Locke in "Through the Looking Glass" when Locke was lying in the Dharma mass grave? Perhaps that was Walt from the future who was actually sent by Locke? The writers have always said that they would be able to fit the actor's growth into the storyline in a way that makes sense. Also, remember when the "Other" Ms. Klugh asked Michael if Walt has ever appeared somewhere he shouldn't? Just something to think about...

2. The van that Ben has been driving around has a company name on the side. Canton-Rainier. It's an anagram for "reincarnation."

3. We finally have answers to questions from the very first season! Rousseau's crew found the island by following a radio transmission that listed the numbers 4, 8, 15, 23, etc. Then, she recorded over that transmission with her own that said that Montand lost his arm and that her crew developed the sickness so she killed them all. Now we know what happened! So, Smokey is the security system that guards the Temple. The Temple had heiroglyphics on it that resembled the same ones from the tunnel beneath Ben's Otherville house and the ones from the Swan Hatch when the numbers ran out (see attached screenshot). According to the producers of Lost these hieroglyphics translate into ''underworld.'' What happened to Danielle's crew when they went down Smokey's tunnel? Were they brainwashed like Karl when he was in room 23?

4. So, Charlotte's backstory is finally revealed. We know why she got nosebleeds, hemmorhaged, died first. She was exposed to the island before everyone else.... except Daniel. He would have been exposed to all of this in the 1970s when he was there working with Dharma. What is up with Daniel?!?! Based on nosebleeds we can assume the Miles was exposed to the island after Charlotte and before Juliet. I'm still believing that he was the baby we saw in the first episode with Dr. Chang/ Candle/ Wickmund. For my friend's BIG theory about Daniel... see the last item in this email... if you dare!

5. Are we to assume now the Christian Shepherd is, in fact, Jacob??? Last night he appeared to Locke and said "the last time you came looking for me was to ask how to save the island" or something like that. When Locke and Ben traveled to the cabin it was to find Jacob for guidance. But when Locke saw Christian in the cabin Locke asked Christian if he was Jacob and Christian said no. So, is he or isn't he Jacob???

6. I wonder why Christian said that JOHN was supposed to move the island, not Ben... that Ben... a master manipulator!

7. One of the boats in the marina where the Oceanic 6 met was named "Illusion."

8. I got the impression that Ben didn't know that Ms. Hawking was Daniel's Mother. Perhaps Ben is not as "in the loop" as I thought. Or, perhaps he was just freaked out that Desmond was there searching for her at the same time.

9. Back to Rousseau's crew... Is that Hurley (?!?!) repeating the numbers on her team's radio? I think so! Listen to the attached mp3 and hear it for yourself! Why would Hurley be transmitting the cursed numbers before 1988, when Rousseau's team crashed, you ask? If you want to know my friend's theory read below... however, if she ends up being right don't be angry if it got spoiled for you because I'm warning you now not to read any further if you don't want to know!

************

My BIG Daniel Faraday theory:

Locke fixes the frozen wheel which causes the time jumps to stop, therefore the island would remain in the time it currently is in. I believe this time will be the 1970s and the Losties will meet up with Dharma. Faraday will infiltrate Dharma to try to understand/ research/ disable the frozen wheel which is why we saw him with Dharma in the first episode of this season! He was never there before in the 1970's (the first time around) but he will be now! Also, while he's there in the 1970s he will find a young Charlotte and tell her "Leave the Island and never come back!" Just like Charlotte remembered when she became a babbling idiot just before she died! It was a NEW memory for her just like how Desmond woke up with a NEW memory of Faraday visiting him in the hatch. It didn't happen originally but now that it has happened the people are having memories as if it DID happen. Get it?
Faraday does not remember telling young Charlotte not to come back to the island because it hasn't happened yet! Of course, she tried to find the island in her adulthood because he never told her not to come back until now that he's stuck in the 1970s and has YET to tell her!

After seeing the first episode this season I thought that Faraday was a master time-traveler but now I believe he's just stuck in the 1970s on the island for the first time.
This got me to thinking.... if the island is in the 1970s now then perhaps when the Oceanic 6 get back (assuming they will) they will also arrive in the 1970s and Hurley will somehow have to transmit the numbers which Rousseau's team hears and Hurley's mental institution buddy repeats the numbers (he heard them when he was serving in the military) which leads to Hurley winning the lottery! Or something like that... It all comes back to the numbers!

ucla695

02-13-2009, 07:03 AM

Ooh more to think about...great stuff Bao!!

MikeyC

02-13-2009, 07:08 AM

7. The scene where the Losties found their camp abandoned was a flash of the future. The Ajira Airways bottle told us that another plane crashed. For a moment, let's imagine that the Flight 815'ers failed at whatever the island needed them to do. Going with Ms. Hawking's theory of course-correction, the island would still need to bring people to it. Jacob would still need some help. What we saw here was the next generation of LOST: one in which the plane that crashed came from India, one in which the crash survivors were just different people playing the same roles. Most things would occur along the same lines: they'd build a camp, they'd be terrorized by the smoke monster, there would be lots of fighting and gunfire. Eventually they'd find the remnants of the 815 camp and wonder what the hell it was, much the same way our characters found the Black Rock and the 4-toed statue. They'd also scrap with the Others - early and often.

I have a theory about the Ajira Airways bottle . . . I believe at the end of this season the O-6 willl make it back to the island by taking an Ajira Airways flight that crashes on the island.

Mugen910

02-13-2009, 07:30 AM

Ooh more to think about...great stuff Bao!!

I do what I can Mr. Martin! :tu

white_s2k

02-13-2009, 07:43 AM

All I can say is that the writers of lost are freakin' geniuses. Every time I think the show is jumping the shark and they don't know what they're doing, BOOM.. they have another great episode.

Mugen910

02-18-2009, 07:32 AM

LOST TIDBIT

1. In a recent Podcast, a viewer asked the LOST creators how Kelvin came to be on the island. He was there pushing the button when Desmond first crashed on the island in 2001. We had also seen him as the American soldier who worked with Sayid in Iraq in the early 1990's. The show's creators said it may have been possible that Dharma recruited him AFTER the purge (when Ben and the Others gassed all of Dharma). Stay tuned... We will get more info on Kelvin in the future.

2. The show's creators recently said that we will definitely learn why Kate robbed a bank to get a toy plane.

3. Remember the psychic who told Claire not to allow Aaron to be raised by another (an Other?)? His daughter came back to life after drowning... Eko was the priest who investigated the miracle. That daughter's name was Charlotte Malkin. Another Charlotte with red, curly hair...

4. Daniel Faraday referenced the Orchid Hatch in his journal. We saw this when he first met Desmond... that would have been the mid-late 1990's.... yet, he traveled to the island in 2004 for the first time. See attached screenshot...

5. Ms. Hawking's computer screen shows star/ asterisk symbols much like the one Juliet was branded with after she killed another Other (I think it was Danny Pickett). See screenshots...

6. Someone drew my attention to a theory as to why there were polar bears on the island. It seems so obvious now. Perhaps the polar bears were trained to push the frozen wheel to move the island. It's pretty cold down there and polar bears can be trained. Remember when we first met Charlotte Lewis she was working as an anthropologist and discovered polar bear remains in the desert of Tunisia. The remains had a collar with a Dharma Hydra station tag. The Hydra Station is where the bear cages and shark aquarium are located (on the smaller island). A Tunisia desert is where Ben ended up after he turned the frozen wheel...see attached screenshots.

Tonight's episode is titled "316"

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3544/3290625836_412ec7abb2_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3478/3290625834_1749a9ca78_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3184/3290625832_f0fc83cb27_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3181/3290625826_f732421ae6_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/3290625822_8901af7486_o.jpg

MikeyC

02-18-2009, 08:54 PM

I have a theory about the Ajira Airways bottle . . . I believe at the end of this season the O-6 willl make it back to the island by taking an Ajira Airways flight that crashes on the island.

Well, it looks like I was only wrong in that I thought it would take until the end of the season for the O-6 to make it back to the island. I'm smart. :r

2. The show's creators recently said that we will definitely learn why Kate robbed a bank to get a toy plane.

Don't we already know this?

I thought the toy plane belonged to Kate's childhood friend who got killed when she was running from the law after visting her mother in the hospital. The US Marshall (the one that died in the plane crash) stated he put the plane in the safety deposit box to lure Kate out of hiding.

Mugen910

02-19-2009, 03:09 PM

Episode 5 - "316"

1. This episode seemed kind of off to me. I feel like the audience was kept out of the loop and that this episode will be put into perspective for us at some point. I don't know... Ms. Hawking's explanations, Jack's willingness to let go of science and just give in to faith after all this time, Kate's behavior, it all seemed to convenient or something. Maybe Jack's hero complex just took over and he forgot the whole science vs. faith debate so he could get back there to save his friends.

2. This time they have the right pilot! Remember that Lapidus was supposed to be the original Oceanic Flight 815 pilot... He had the best line of the night last night... "We're not going to Guam, are we?"

3. What was Ben doing at the marina when he called Jack? Did he get bloody from "visiting" Penny? Maybe his unfinished business was paying Widmore back for killing Alex? :( Either that or Ben and Sayid met up. Remember that Sayid said next time he saw Ben it would be very unpleasant.

4. Jack's grandfather Ray... kinda young looking, searching for something, always running, wants to go somewhere where no one can find him. Has he been to the island before? Why were we shown that scene? Just so Jack could get Christian's shoes? I feel like there's more to it...

5. Speaking of the shoes... we now know why Christian had on white tennis shoes in his coffin. Jack didn't see him fit to wear nice shoes to the grave. One last attempt for Jack to disgrace an unfit father. BUT, as Jack said to Ms. Hawking "This is ridiculous." Why would he have to give Locke something that belonged to Christian? Do they really have to be this specific in recreating the flight? Maybe Christian's body was a proxy for the last flight much like Locke's body is the proxy for this flight??? Maybe the shoes (or anything that belonged to Christian) weren't necessary and Jack was just being tested.

6. Hurley had a guitar to recreate what Charlie had on the original flight. Did Charlie appear to Hurley again and convince him to get on the plane?

7. Widmore and the Lamp Post Dharma station... Widmore told Desmond where to find Ms. Hawking so, apparently, he (Widmore) knew where to go to get the information to find the island. If Widmore's been searching for the island why didn't he just go to the Lamp Post Station himself?

8. Kate sure did change her mind quickly. Where is Aaron and why is she going along with Jack? For me, the only acceptable place that Aaron could be is with Claire's mother, who we know is in the LA area getting her Oceanic settlement. So, why did Kate change her mind? Ben planted a seed last week. Last week, at the marina, Ben told Kate "You're not his mother." Those words seem pretty hypocritical of Ben, considering the whole Alex debacle. Ben was never really Alex's father, and the whole situation ended badly because of his selfishness in wanting to raise her. I think in his own tactless way, Ben was imparting this lesson upon Kate in the last episode. He was not-so-subtly letting her know that she shouldn't make the same mistake he did. Perhaps Kate realized she should not be so selfish and therefore handed Aaron off to his actual family. So... in her despair over giving Aaron up, Kate "visited" Jack. Did she get pregnant so that she could recreate having a pregnant woman on the flight?
9. Simon's Butcher shop... Charlie's Dad's name was Simon and he was a butcher. I think I mentioned this before. Funny that Ben's butcher shop was named Simon's Butcher Shop.

10. So, if Jin is working for Dharma in the 1970s (I'm assuming since he's wearing the jumpsuit and driving a sweet van) then perhaps young Charlotte learns Korean because Jin taught it to her then! He would now know that teaching her Korean would serve its purpose when she returns to the island. :)

11. The Oceanic 6 have changed roles: Sayid is now Kate - Shackled, sullen, and accompanied by some type of law enforcement official. Ben is now Hurley - Or at least he arrives that way. Ben is last to board the plane at the very last second, having just made the flight. Kate is now Claire - Broken, confused, and torn over a decision she just made regarding her child. Then again... maybe they are all proxies like Locke? Maybe the flights always need to have a body in a coffin, a pregnant woman, a fugitive, etc. Maybe the island keeps bringing crashes there with hopes that the next survivors will right whatever is wrong?

Waynegro1

02-19-2009, 05:44 PM

Very nice recap and food for thought, Mugen. I always enjoy/look forward to reading your posts after each episode. Keep up the good work. :tu

ucla695

02-20-2009, 06:45 AM

white_s2k

02-20-2009, 06:56 AM

Another great recap Bao. I can't help wonder if Ben was present when Locke decided to kill himself. Did Ben plant the letter at the scene hoping that it would end up with Jack? Maybe that extra nudge to get him to go back to the island in case he didn't want to? They sure focused on it a couple times.

Well in the preview for next week's episode we see Jack slipping the noose around his neck, and I'm 99% sure I saw Ben kneeling down in front of him. As if he was pleading for him not to do it and said something along the lines of "Jack you're more important than you know".

I'll try to find the clip online.

ucla695

02-20-2009, 06:58 AM

Totally missed that....the DVR stopped recording before the previews came on. :bh

dunng

02-20-2009, 07:06 AM

I agree it was Ben... :hm

kugie

02-20-2009, 09:16 AM

I think the greaset line of the Show this year is.
"we're not going to Guam Are We"

AD720

02-20-2009, 09:24 AM

Very nice recap and food for thought, Mugen. I always enjoy/look forward to reading your posts after each episode. Keep up the good work. :tu

:tpd: Ditto, great work. I wish my memory was as good as yours.

I was so proud of myself when I recognized Lapidus's voice. :r

I watched a couple minutes of the "pop-up-video" version of last weeks show, did you see that Ms. Hawking met Desmond before (and refused to sell them a ring)?

These writers are really, reeally good with the details.

Mugen910

02-20-2009, 09:27 AM

Thanks for the kudos guys but honestly this is a friend of mine that does this stuff...she loves to go on "Lost" forums and compile this info to share. So I figured I'd share her knowledge and my enjoyment of the show with the B(S)OTLs.

Mugen910

02-20-2009, 12:37 PM

More things that make you go :hm

1. How unsettling was Ben's call to Jack when he was bloody at the marina; we know Desmond, Penny and little Charlie arrived by boat. Shades of Hannibal Lector in "Silence of the Lambs," no? ... the pay phone, the old friend... not to mention Charlotte referred to "Hannibal" last week.

2. Kate's line "Just because we're on the same plane, doesn't make us together."

3. The Lamp Post Dharma station. It's another reference to the "Chronicles of Narnia," in which the lamp post is a landmark that shows the way between worlds and burns continuously without fuel. (It's been noted that when the character was introduced in Season 4, Charlotte Staples Lewis's initials match CS Lewis, the author or Narnia).

4. Ben was reading "Ulysses" on the plane, which features motifs of lightness and darkness, surrogate fathers and sons, heroes and saviors, and parallels with Homer's Odyssey, etc...
***
An interesting theory that I read suggests that stories from literature which describe a magical place (El Dorado, Shangri-la, Eden, Atlantis, Fountain of Youth, etc) are all describing the island, as told by people who have actually visited the island.

***
Something my friend read noted the similarities between LOST and Disney's Atlantis: the Lost Empire:

.The rich man that funds the expedition is named "Whitmore" (Widmore)
.The key to finding the city is in a journal (Faraday's Journal)
.This journal is called "The Shepard's Journal" (Jack Shepard and family)
.There is a monster that guards the entrance to the city (Smoke Monster)
.The entrance is through long tube-like caves (the holes to the frozen wheel, caves we saw in season 1)
.There is a volcano near the city (volcano on the island has been mentioned)
.The Atlantians have healing power (island has healing power)
.The Atlantians age very, very slowly (Richard Alpert)
.There is a great power/ life force under the city (the frozen wheel)
.There are giant statues that surround the city (four toed statue)
.Only Atlantians of royal blood can use the power to save the city

Have a good weekend everyone! Only 5 days left until "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" :O

kaisersozei

02-20-2009, 01:43 PM

***
Something my friend read noted the similarities between LOST and Disney's Atlantis: the Lost Empire:

.The rich man that funds the expedition is named "Whitmore" (Widmore)
.The key to finding the city is in a journal (Faraday's Journal)
.This journal is called "The Shepard's Journal" (Jack Shepard and family)
.There is a monster that guards the entrance to the city (Smoke Monster)
.The entrance is through long tube-like caves (the holes to the frozen wheel, caves we saw in season 1)
.There is a volcano near the city (volcano on the island has been mentioned)
.The Atlantians have healing power (island has healing power)
.The Atlantians age very, very slowly (Richard Alpert)
.There is a great power/ life force under the city (the frozen wheel)
.There are giant statues that surround the city (four toed statue)
.Only Atlantians of royal blood can use the power to save the city

At some point a few years ago I remember reading someone's theory about how the Lost island is really Atlantis. Those are interesting parallels with the Disney movie.

Cigargal

02-20-2009, 05:05 PM

My favorite line was when Jack asked Mrs. Hawkings if Ben was lying and she said "Probably." :r

Mugen910

02-20-2009, 06:50 PM

My favorite line was when Jack asked Mrs. Hawkings if Ben was lying and she said "Probably." :r

:tpd: i must concur

dunng

02-22-2009, 02:11 PM

I think the greaset line of the Show this year is.
"we're not going to Guam Are We"

My favorite line was when Jack asked Mrs. Hawkings if Ben was lying and she said "Probably." :r

It's a toss up! :D

Cigargal

02-22-2009, 05:33 PM

white_s2k

02-22-2009, 05:49 PM

What about that bloody business with Ben...He is all beaten up and nobody presses him for an explanation? So the original 6 are going back to the island, and Aaron doesn't count because he was born on the island?

I think Bao mentioned earlier that maybe that is why Kate and Jack had sex. She was hoping to get pregnant, so then she would be filling the role of Claire and Saeed would be filling Kate's role now that he is under arrest? I dunno.. this show is great though!

AD720

02-26-2009, 02:30 PM

Bao where are you??? :tt

Mugen910

02-26-2009, 02:32 PM

Bao where are you??? :tt

uhm....lost?

MikeyC

02-26-2009, 05:04 PM

That was a GREAT episode last night. I couldn't believe it when it turned out that Ben killed John and that he didn't commit suicide.

ActionAndy

02-26-2009, 05:26 PM

That was a GREAT episode last night. I couldn't believe it when it turned out that Ben killed John and that he didn't commit suicide.

I sure could, Ben's a snake.

I used to frequent a Lost forum (4815162342.com) but the number of people there insisting that "Ben's a good guy you can't force your morals onto other people" drove me absolutely insane. (Not that what you said got me angry :ss )

I hate Ben and can't wait for him to get his.

AD720

02-26-2009, 06:49 PM

uhm....lost?

Good answer. :r

I, for one, am really looking forward to your (your friend's) notes.

Waynegro1

02-26-2009, 08:09 PM

Good answer. :r

I, for one, am really looking forward to your (your friend's) notes.

:tpd:

ucla695

02-27-2009, 06:53 AM

So is Ben or Charles bad? Both? I'm not sure what to think anymore.

Good answer. :r

I, for one, am really looking forward to your (your friend's) notes.

:tpd:

Me too. I need my Lost notes fix.

dunng

02-27-2009, 06:59 AM

Please.... don't hold out on us junkies!

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/animated/anim_37.gif http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/animated/anim_37.gif

Mugen910

02-27-2009, 07:06 AM

I love seeing you guys/gals squirm.

ucla695

02-27-2009, 08:01 AM

I love seeing you guys/gals squirm.

Typical pusher...now he's going to raise his prices. :r :r

Mugen910

02-27-2009, 12:29 PM

Lost 5 - Episode 7 "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham"

1. Nadia - the nurse at Locke's hospital in Tunisia sure looked a lot like Sayid's Nadia but it was hard to tell because Locke passed out as soon as the camera was on her... However, she would have been dead at that point in time. No one can seem to find a screenshot as it happened so quickly.

2. Locke's old girlfriend Helen. Recap: Helen was Locke's girlfriend who we learned about in flashback episodes. We learn how they met, see how their relationship develops and eventually ends (due to his obsession with his con man father). At one point in Locke's life he had a phone sex operator use the name Helen so he could pretend that he still communicated with the real Helen. Is she really dead or did Widmore stage that grave so Locke really would have no reason not to return to the island?

3. Frank Lapidus landed the Ajira plane on the smaller island... this would be why he and a woman (probably Sun) took one of the outrigger canoes... to get to the larger island to find the Left-behinders (Sawyer, Jin, etc). Either Frank pulled off a really smooth beach landing or he brought the plane down on the infamous runway that the Others were building with the help of captured Kate and Sawyer in Season 3.

4. When the Ajira 316 survivors found Locke he was standing in water... a blunt baptism inference. Notice that the two Locke's were shown to us again: Off-island Locke is gullible, a pawn in someone else's game, weak, insecure, etc. On-island Locke is focused, strong, and has mad knife skills.

5. Locke's hotel - the Westerfield Hotel... there are only some of the letters of the Westerfield Hotel lit before Locke's 'suicide' scene. They are: WESTRFIELOTL
I put them in an anagram generator and didn't come up with much. FREEWILLOSTT is about all I found that applies.

6. When Caesar was rifling through an office's papers he was in the Hydra Hatch (remember when Jack was in the aquarium there... the bear cages are there too). It is located on the smaller LOST island. So, how did the papers he saw get there three years after we saw them last (see attached Faraday journal screenshots that compare Caesar's papers to Faraday's journal)? That Caesar is a shady character. If he's working for Widmore, why didn't he know who Locke was? Who is he working for?

7. Back to Christian's shoes from last week - I thought that Locke needing something of Christian's was so silly, but maybe having something of Christian's would be a way for someone on the island to identify Locke once he got back.... or to convey some message to Christian.

8. Why didn't Ben just let Locke kill himself? Locke had lost his faith and that is what made him so special... Maybe if he had died by suicide he could not have made it back to the island? So once Ben restored Locke's faith he killed him since they both knew that John had to die in order to get back. OR... Was Ben surprised that Locke knew about Ms. Hawking and he was afraid that Locke would find out from her that Ben wasn't supposed to return to the island? He was breaking the rules by returning. Remember that he said if you move the island you can't come back... ever.

9. This is an excerpt from a blog that I enjoyed, regarding the relationship between Locke and Ben in the hotel. Read it if you are interested...
Ben's here to repair the damage caused by Jack, Sayid, Kate and Hurley. Ben's here to re-infuse Locke with the confidence and purpose he had when John turned the frozen wheel just few short days ago. He tells Locke that he's not a failure. He pleads with Locke not to kill himself. Jeremy Bentham dies here, and the old John Locke is back. He even thanks Ben. This is the guy who kidnapped people, the guy who told string after string of filthy lies. This is the man who gutshot Locke and left him in a pit full of rotting corpses. But hey, all is forgiven for the Island. Suddenly John believes again - his faith is restored. Ben knew that if Locke had died faithless, or by suicide, he might not have been resurrected. That's the single most important part of his visit to the hotel room.
You can bet your ass that everything he does is coldly calculated, and Ben already had that stuff when he showed up. He knew he'd have to kill Locke just as certainly as he knew he had to make it look like a suicide. Do you think Ben wiped his fingerprints from the extension cord and bleached the room to avoid being caught by the cops? No, he needed the newspapers to reflect that Jeremy Bentham had taken his own life. This got Jack to the funeral, but more importantly it served to let Charles Widmore think he'd succeeded in driving Locke to suicide. Sneaky ****? Yup. That's Benjamin Linus.

Remember Widmore's cryptic comment to Ben back in ''The Shape of Things To Come:'' ''Everything you have you took from me.''

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/3314737048_47c3e5e7bd_b.jpg

woops

02-27-2009, 01:22 PM

I got the feeling that Ben was helping Locke stay alive to gain information. Locke said two things that made Ben pause. One was when he mentioned the name of Mrs. Hawkings and the other happened just before it (I think ... I cant remember what the information was though). It seemed to me that Ben didn't decide to kill Locke until John inadvertantly passed info to Ben (that he seemingly didn't know yet).

Thus ..... no more need to keep Locke around, since he has the info he needed. :bh

I don't know. Sure is good television though. :D

ucla695

02-27-2009, 07:45 PM

Let's all take http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/animated/anim_37.gif to Bao. We needed our fix. Aaaaahhhhhhh, I feel soooo much betta. :D

Ben first winced (sort of) when Locke mentioned that Jin was still alive. The Hawking comment followed. Perhaps Jin knows something since he was on the barge that blew up or perhaps since he has been on the island for an indeterminate amount of time?

woops

02-27-2009, 09:51 PM

Mugen910

03-05-2009, 08:01 AM

Can I say that Sawyer is my hero? First Kate...then Juliet...:dr

dunng

03-05-2009, 09:31 AM

Can I say that Sawyer is my hero? First Kate...then Juliet...:dr

:r :r :r :r

ActionAndy

03-05-2009, 10:03 AM

Juliet is so god damn foxy. Oh my god do I love older women.

Dukeuni

03-05-2009, 10:10 AM

I need my lost notes!!! I swear, each episode makes me want to have the forums up and running so I can realize there is so much I am missing in the episodes. Heck, Horace, I know he has come up before, but I just could not remember.

ActionAndy

03-05-2009, 10:12 AM

Waynegro1

03-05-2009, 10:13 AM

I haven't read the notes yet. I don't even know if BAO posted notes. I worked my 24 hour shift yesterday and had to TIVO my LOST. I'm watching it tonight and then you know where to find me. I'll be gettin' my BAO NOTES fix.

rack04

03-05-2009, 10:30 AM

Horace was the one that first welcomed Ben and Ben's Dumb Dad to the island.

Wasn't he also the dead guy that Sawyer found in the van with all the beer?

woops

03-05-2009, 10:43 AM

Wasn't he also the dead guy that Sawyer found in the van with all the beer?

That was Ben's father. Don't remember the name though.

Horace did show up in the jungle during a previous season. He was cutting down a tree when one of the Oceanic survivors (Locke, maybe?) stumbled upon him. Horace was talking to (whomever) and his nose sarted to bleed.

Anyone else remember the scene and who the survivor was that was present?

dannysguitar

03-05-2009, 10:50 AM

Yes, he told Locke he had work to do....

MikeyC

03-05-2009, 10:51 AM

That was Ben's father. Don't remember the name though.

Horace did show up in the jungle during a previous season. He was cutting down a tree when one of the Oceanic survivors (Locke, maybe?) stumbled upon him. Horace was talking to (whomever) and his nose sarted to bleed.

Anyone else remember the scene and who the survivor was that was present?

I think it was Locke that met horace. He was cutting down trees to build a cabin (the one that Jacob now "lives" in).

Ben's father's name was Roger. I'm re-watching season 3 with my wife (she never saw the first few seasons) and we just watched the episode where Hurley finds the Dharma van in the jungle with Roger Work Man behind the wheel.

woops

03-05-2009, 11:14 AM

I'm re-watching season 3 with my wife (she never saw the first few seasons) and we just watched the episode where Hurley finds the Dharma van in the jungle with Roger Work Man behind the wheel.

Roger Workman. Man, that dude has a funny last name! ;) :D

Cyanide

03-05-2009, 11:20 AM

Any ideas on who was born? I am thinking that the identity of that child (boy?) is going to be important in the backstory.

It can't be Locke, as Locke would have already been alive as a child somewhere else.

It can't be Ben, as he will already be one of the children on the island (Horace is too old by this point, compared to his relative youth when he welcomed Ben to the island).

And it couldn't be Whidmore. Once again, wrong timeline.

Could it be Karl? That just wouldn't be interesting. Karl is probably a little young for that as well. Ya, alot too young. Scratch that.

Farraday, Desmond, Sawyer, Jack...all possibilites (with significant backflips in the story), but all fairly useless to complicate things in that fashion.

kaisersozei

03-05-2009, 01:00 PM

ActionAndy

03-05-2009, 01:19 PM

Horace was also there when Ben was born (and his mother died) at the side of the road.

Horace was ALSO at the head of the line for Stupid Names. Seriously could the name Horace sound any less human? Sounds like something you'd name a pet donkey.

rack04

03-05-2009, 01:51 PM

Horace was ALSO at the head of the line for Stupid Names. Seriously could the name Horace sound any less human? Sounds like something you'd name a pet donkey.

<-----:mad:

ActionAndy

03-05-2009, 02:00 PM

<-----:mad:

:fu

Mugen910

03-05-2009, 02:04 PM

Horace was ALSO at the head of the line for Stupid Names. Seriously could the name Horace sound any less human? Sounds like something you'd name a pet donkey.

<----- :mad:

Dukeuni

03-05-2009, 02:11 PM

hehe, man, way to do a "foot in mouth"

NOTE TO SELF: Before mocking name you have heard, check to see if any people you know have said name.

ActionAndy

03-05-2009, 02:24 PM

hehe, man, way to do a "foot in mouth"

NOTE TO SELF: Before mocking name you have heard, check to see if any people you know have said name.

I swear, this was my exact train of thought while typing that post:

--Maybe I shouldn't say this, someone here might be named Horace.
--No way, I've never met anyone named that.
--I should check real quick anyway.
--No way, it's already typed.

APOLOGIES TO ALL HORACES. HORACII? HORI?

rack04

03-05-2009, 02:26 PM

<----- :mad:

Very original Bao. :fu

white_s2k

03-05-2009, 06:10 PM

ucla695

03-05-2009, 08:45 PM

Can I say that Sawyer is my hero? First Kate...then Juliet...:dr

He da man!!

ActionAndy

03-06-2009, 06:07 AM

Does anyone know the significance (if there is one) of Sawyer using the name "La Fleur" when questioned by Horace? The episode was named La Fleur and I keep hearing talk on other forums about it relating to something important from past episode but I can't think of anything?

Oh and damnit Bao.. I need my Lost Notes fix!!!!!!! :D

I ckecked it out on lostpedia (lostpedia.org) and it doesn't seem to have any significance other than being a common creole name. There's a lot of interesting chatter about the statue however. From the back it looks a lot like statues of tawaret, an egyptian god. (I'm taking this image from another site).

http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24860&stc=1&d=1236282541

ucla695

03-06-2009, 07:00 AM

I ckecked it out on lostpedia (lostpedia.org) and it doesn't seem to have any significance other than being a common creole name. There's a lot of interesting chatter about the statue however. From the back it looks a lot like statues of tawaret, an egyptian god. (I'm taking this image from another site).

http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24860&stc=1&d=1236282541

Interesting information. I wonder if the statue was damaged in the 'war.' It'll also be interesting to learn about the history of pregnancies on the island. Have Darma peeps been able to conceive and deliver healthy babies there? I tend to think the baby boy was conceived off the island. Maybe that's why they built the statue....to help with the problem and appease the gods. Who knows. Anyway, more food for thought.

Mugen910

03-06-2009, 07:05 AM

Very original Bao. :fu

Thanks Justin!:fu

Mugen910

03-06-2009, 11:06 AM

Lost 5 - episode 8 "Lafleur"

1. Finally, what we've all been waiting for.... Sawyer washed his hair! This was a great character development episode...I guess we needed a mental break from all the heavy science fiction stuff. See attached screenshot... for the ladies.

2. Sawyer has always been in the front-running for the most transformed characters on the show (along with Locke). Remember how the Island cured Rose's cancer and allowed Locke to flourish physically and spiritually; and remember Locke, Jack and all the Oceanic 6 basically disintegrated as people the longer they spent away from the Island. ''This place is death?" Well, sometimes. But other times, this place can be life - but it requires peace of character and being locked into your intended destiny. And right now, Sawyer is groovin'...

3. So... the big question.... who does Horace's baby turn out to be? A boy born in 1977... we never got his name. It can't be Locke or Ben. They aren't the right age plus we saw their births in the real world. Could be Jacob... after all, when Locke had a vision about Horace, Horace was building a cabin for him and his wife. Then again, Richard knew about Jacob in 1954. The boy would be about 27 when flight 815 crashes in 2004.

4. The Dharma/ Others Truce: Why would Others kill Paul and try to kidnap Amy? Did Amy and Paul venture into Other territory that was supposed to be off limits? Remember when Tom and the Others surrounded Jack and the Losties and threatened something like "this is our island, stay away from this side of it" or something like that? Or, is the truce only "you don't kill us, we don't kill you?" I believe, at this time on the island, we can assume that the Others are currently under Widmore's reign of power (Widmore's words to Locke last week about ruling peacefully and for such a long period of time... 3 decades to be exact).

5. Why did Charlotte's body disappear when she died? Perhaps she really isn't dead... now. Maybe in this new 1974, Faraday doesn't tell her not to come back here (which sparked her life long search for this mythical place she remembered). Then again, Faraday keeps telling us "What happened happened" so he shouldn't have been able to change that. Another theory is that once the group landed in 1974, Charlotte's body disappeared because a person cannot exist in two places at the same time -- dead or alive.

6. Horace Goodspeed recap: We know from the season 3 episode ''The Man Behind The Curtain'' that Horace Goodspeed and a woman named Olivia aided Roger Linus during Ben's unexpected birth in the woods. (So many premies on the show. That can't be a coincidence.) We also know Roger and Ben migrated to the Island at the invitation of the Goodspeeds when Ben was a boy. So, where is Olivia? Did she not enter the picture until the late 1970's when Ben comes to the island? Perhaps Horace and Amy split by then? Oh, and Olivia was Ben's teacher when he was a Dharma student. See attached Olivia screencap.

7. Speaking of Horace... Horus is a god of the Ancient Egyptian religion, most commonly knows by the Greek version Horus, of the Egyptian Heru/ Har. Horus was an ancient and important deity. More on ancient Egypt later. See attached image of Horus.

8. Note how 1974-1977 ON the island is similar to 2005-2008 OFF the island. Some distinct parallels: The Left Behinders' Dharma drama very much echoed the Oceanic 6's off-Island ordeal, complete with cover-up lie, a dead body to haul around, and a con man-turned-shepherd. (Ben = Sawyer here.)

9. Have you noticed how Season 5 of Lost resembles Season 2? Season 2 emphasized the Man of Science/ Man of Faith conflict and introduced us to the Dharma Initiative mythology. Season 5: Lots of faith/ reason; lots of Dharma. When you consider that Season 4 mirrored Season 3 (split group story lines; a climactic attack on the castaways; similar coffin/ ''We've got to go back'' cliffhanger), what you have is a saga that's doubling back on itself. What would that mean for season 6? How will it echo season 1? Something to think about.

10. The original Oceanic 815 flight.... did Jack and company FLASH off the flight like they flashed off the Ajira 316 flight last week? Some items to support this theory: The Losties have commented several times that they survived the Oceanic crash with just superficial injuries. In one earlier episode Sayid is talking to Kate and says there is no way they should have survived that 815 crash. Maybe it's because they flashed off of it!

11. Let's talk about ancient Egypt:

The statue: The island's large statue looked Egyptian. Skirt, but no shirt -probably male. Those appear to be ankhs in the hands - symbolic of life in general and eternal life, specifically (also shown on the necklace Amy took from Paul's neck). And on the head, two pointy ears and a rectangular headpiece. The island's statue is not Horus, as Horus had the head of a falcon. So, other possibilities...

Anubis: the Egyptian God of mummification and the afterlife. Over the course of time, Anubis became considered more the gatekeeper and ruler of the underworld, the "Guardian of the veil" (of "death"). Consequently, he was said to protect souls as they journeyed there, and thus be the patron of lost souls." See attached photo.

Taweret: the Egyptian Goddess of fertility, the protector of pregnancy and childbirth. In the episode "D.O.C" Juliet told Sun that the men were extra-fertile on the Island. While we cannot be sure whether or not the statue is still in its original form once the crew landed in 1974, we did see Juliet deliver a healthy baby 3 years afterward. Perhaps the moment the statue was destroyed and/ or crumbled was when the Island pregnancy problems began. Like Anubis, Taweret also carries an ankh. See attached photo.

Other Egyptian references: The hieroglyphics in The Hatch and on The Temple were Egyptian. Weren't ancient Egyptians fond of eyeliner? So, Is Richard Alpert Egyptian? Richard Alpert = RA (the sun god?). FUN FACT FROM NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC'S WEBSITE: ''Both men and women in ancient Egypt wore a sort of eyeliner. The paint was made of minerals mixed with water, ground on palettes, and kept in tubes. It was worn for adornment and perhaps also to reduce the sun's glare.'' I'm half kidding here as so many people have made fun of the fact that Richard appears to have on eyeliner.

12. No LOST next week.

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Mugen910

03-06-2009, 11:07 AM

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Mugen910

03-06-2009, 12:36 PM

>>> EDIT 3/6/2009 2:06 PM >>>
Yes, the Charlotte birth year thing seems to be an issue, but think about this:
The information Ben rattled off about Ms. Lewis in "Confirmed Dead" was incorrect. She's clearly well into toddler stage by 1974, so obviously she was not born in 1979 as Ben stated last season. This may just mean that Charlotte lied and/or Abaddon purposefully changed her background information in whatever file Michael read on the freighter -- which he then passed to Ben.

It's just one of three things: 1. Ben lied about Charlotte's birth year, 2. The information that Ben got was wrong, or 3. It was not Charlotte.

>>> Notes >>>
#11. I'm going with Taweret. See attached pics. Similarities to the Island Statue: The ears are short, the hair or head dress is long, the square-ish headpiece, not to mention that it just makes sense! Taweret is the protector of women during pregnancy and childbirth!! Sometimes carrying the ankh (eternal life) in one hand and the sa (symbol of protection) in the other. And one other thing that's different in each picture I look at, but most of them depict Taweret with only 4 toes.

#5. Taken from a website
"Daniel Faraday sees a young red-haired girl at the Dharma Initiative camp in 1974 whom he believes is Charlotte Staples Lewis. However, Ben, when reciting her biography ("Confirmed Dead") stated she was born July 2, 1979, approximately 5 years too late to be Charlotte if Ben's information from Michael was correct (a birthdate of 1969 would be closer if this girl is indeed a young Charlotte). It remains possible, however, that the girl was not Charlotte, and Daniel was mistaken due to his grief."

Only time will tell! Have a nice weekend, everyone!

ucla695

03-06-2009, 12:53 PM

More great notes. Man, I'm going to have to watch the whole series again to catch a part of what has been happening. Kinda like drinking from a fire hose.

Mugen910

03-06-2009, 12:56 PM

More great notes. Man, I'm going to have to watch the whole series again to catch a part of what has been happening. Kinda like drinking from a fire hose.

I don't get this analogy.:confused:

ucla695

03-06-2009, 01:04 PM

I don't get this analogy.:confused:

Just saying that there's so much parallelism, symbolism (all sorts of isms :)) etc that it's impossible to take it all in. Thanks why the notes help so much! :)

Mugen910

03-06-2009, 01:05 PM

Just saying that there's so much parallelism, symbolism (all sorts of isms :)) etc that it's impossible to take it all in.

ah...thanks...never heard the fire hose thing before.:tu

ucla695

03-06-2009, 01:08 PM

ah...thanks...never heard the fire hose thing before.:tu

Gotcha. You should try it some time. It's fun. See.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXc5ltzKq3Y

:r:r:r

Mugen910

03-06-2009, 01:11 PM

Gotcha. You should try it some time. It's fun. See.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXc5ltzKq3Y

:r:r:r

I'll try it and letcha know...:tu

Waynegro1

03-06-2009, 10:04 PM

Great job, once again, Bao!! :tu
It's going to be a LONG two weeks.
I've never been so involved, engrossed and obsessed in a TV program in all my years. This has got to be one of the most complicated, yet, extremely well written shows every produced IMHO.
I'm going out to have a cigar and reflect on the "notes".
Keep up the good work, Bao!!:tu

Cigargal

03-06-2009, 10:21 PM

So our losties have been part of the Dharma inititive for 3 yrs but where is young Ben Linus? He came to the island when he was about 10? And how old is he in 2007? What was the name of the episode about Ben's early years?

Cigargal

03-08-2009, 12:23 PM

Mugen910

03-10-2009, 01:56 PM

The Man Behind the Curtain. Ben is 11 yrs old when he comes to the island. I am not sure how old he is when the Oceanic flight crashes on the island, but my guess is that he and his dad Roger arrived on the island in the early 70's.

Also, Hurley, Jack and Kate meet up with Dharma, Locke and Ben are with the survivors of the plane crash...where is Sun and Sayid?

patience my dear...I'm sure we'll find out soon..I cannot recall if they have shown them either.

The new survivors told Locke that a woman (Sun?) and the pilot (Lepidis) took off with a boat and the manifest...I wonder if they took Sayid too?

Cigargal

03-10-2009, 05:38 PM

patience my dear...I'm sure we'll find out soon..I cannot recall if they have shown them either.

The new survivors told Locke that a woman (Sun?) and the pilot (Lepidis) took off with a boat and the manifest...I wonder if they took Sayid too?

I forgot about the boat...John was standing on the beach looking at an island-he is on the smaller island then.

dannysguitar

03-19-2009, 01:40 PM

So, what are your thoughts on last night's episode!?!?!?

Mugen910

03-19-2009, 02:06 PM

I liked it but for some reason didn't love it..

dannysguitar

03-20-2009, 09:59 AM

I liked it but for some reason didn't love it..

Yeah, I feel the same way. Maybe it didn't explain enough. Can't wait for next week. That one looks like a doosy!

kaisersozei

03-20-2009, 10:27 AM

I liked it but for some reason didn't love it..

Don't know about you guys, but I love any episode that has both Kate & Juliet. :tu

Cigargal

03-20-2009, 10:55 AM

Glad boy Ben showed up-but it seems the adult Ben is at a different time than the boy Ben, as is Locke, the pilot and Sun. Not many new surprise-setting up everyone's new position in the pecking order.

What about Ethan? He is born to a Dharma woman in the mid-seventies, but when we originally meet him he is with Ben and the Others-He should have died in the massacre, don't you think?

And where is Daniel?

Mugen910

03-20-2009, 11:59 AM

Season 5 Episode 9 "Namaste"

1. Baby Ethan. How does he go from Dharma to Other? Assuming that the Purge took place in December 1992 Ethan was just a teenager when his people were wiped out by Ben and the Others. Did Ethan befriend Ben, or was he taken by the Others? If Ethan did befriend Ben and help bring down Dharma from the inside, then he helped kill his own father (Horace) - just like Ben and Locke both did. Recap on Ethan (assuming the baby grows up to be the Ethan we all know and love) - he was the Other who infiltrated the Losties' camp, abducted pregnant Claire, then got killed by Charlie after he came back to abduct Claire again.

2. Lapidus, the Ajira flight and the runway. Before the Ajira plane "landed" we see the co-pilot's surprise as they flash to day from night. This is similar to the helicopter rides to and from the freighter - either they gained or lost a few hours during the time storm, just like Daniel's model rocket. Also, when the co-pilot radioed for help we hear the original island radio transmission playing. Remember that Rousseau had actually turned the message off about two seasons ago so we may have proof that things can change and that Faraday was wrong (things can change). Following the one time string theory, hearing that message in 2007 would be an impossibility.

The existence of the runway is tremendous because it slaps us in the face with one big fact: all along, Ben knew that he'd need it. He'd instructed the Others to build it (remember that Sawyer and Kate were prisoners at this time and helped build it) without telling them why.

Why didn't Sun flash off the flight with the other Oceanic 6? Maybe because she couldn't exactly recreate her original flight circumstance. In this episode she tells Ilana "I was traveling alone" whereas the first time around she was traveling with Jin. Ms. Hawking said that the results would be unpredictable if the original flight was not perfectly recreated.

3. Sun and Lapidus meet Christian. There was definitely a suggestion to connect Christian and Smokey by having the two in the same vicinity at the same time. "You have a bit of a journey ahead of you,'' Christian told Sun. Creepy! (By the way, I am LOVING Lapidus. He's such a great character and I hope he's in the show full time now.) Again, it seems like Faraday's theory may be wrong... Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Lapidus are now seeing.

The Whispers in this scene say "Not on the List at all" or something like that. Meanwhile in 1977, the Dharma member is asking Kate whether she's been checked in at the Processing Center, and what her name is. He says, "You're not on my list...and you're not on the sub's manifest either." Similarities...

4. The Swan Hatch is still being built. I was under the impression that it was the energy from the frozen wheel and/ or the Jughead bomb that drew the Dharma people to the island in the first place. Hmmm. Guess not. Perplexing, no?

We learned in this episode that the Swan hatch is most likely being built in hostile territory. This would explain why it's buried, and why the entrance door to the Swan Hatch is kept hidden. It makes sense that the Others buried Jughead far away from their camp - this would make it easier for Dharma to bury an entire station beyond their truce-line without being found out. If Dharma registered a strange energy source coming from the ground they might build a station just to study it.

5. In the March 20, 2007 official podcast the show's creator said he did not believe The Others knew about the Swan hatch; however, he acknowledged that the Others might have observed the Swan through the monitors in the Pearl Hatch, after they took over the other Dharma hatches. Therefore, Radzinksy and Kelvin were not killed during the purge along with the rest of Dharma.

6. Sawyer and Jack.... Jack took Sawyer's speech surprisingly well. He knew Sawyer was right... that people died because Jack reacted without always thinking things through. This new Jack (who now has faith since Locke died) seems to be just rolling with it. I wish the two would work together without all the power struggles. Ugh, boys.

7. When Sayid's federal officer was awakened by Caesar after the crash she whispered ''Sarah.'' The only Sarah on the show so far has been Jack's ex-wife.

8. We finally get to meet Radzinsky! Remember that he was Kelvin Inman's partner inside the Swan Hatch before Desmond crashed on the island. We only know about him from what Kelvin told Desmond. Radzinsky was the creator of the blast door map (see attached), which he worked on with the aid of his photographic memory. He discovered how to fake a lockdown, which made it possible to work on the map, as the door was lowered during this time. He also edited the Swan Orientation film. Kelvin explained to Desmond that, while he was asleep, Radzinsky committed suicide by putting a shotgun in his mouth and firing it, causing a blood stain on the ceiling. Because of the protocol Kelvin had to bury him within 108 minutes.

So, if Radzinsky was part of Dharma and knew all about the hatches why did he create that map on the blast door? The map suggests that he is trying to figure things out, but he would already know these things (location of the hatches, etc).

Before Kelvin arrived on the island he was involved with the U.S. military in the Gulf War. During the war, he was connected to Sam Austen, Kate's stepfather, and manipulated Sayid, forcing him to act as a translator and torture Iraqi prisoners for information (although later Kelvin reveals that he can speak Arabic himself). After the war ended, Kelvin transferred a handcuffed Sayid to a deserted area and gave him money, including "bus fare" back to Ramadi. Addressing Sayid's disapproval of the torture methods he forced him to use, he tells him in Arabic that it will come in handy in the future before releasing him.

9. Another thing about Christian in the Dharma building. He points out that there's a 1978 recruitment photo on the wall too. Does this mean we'll see another year's worth of our main characters living in Dharma time? Originally the purge happened in 1992, but there were no recruitment photos on the wall after 1978 this time around. Did Dharma just stop recruiting in 1978? Not originally because Kelvin was recruited AFTER he was in the war with Sayid in 1991!

10. Remember how I emailed that the seasons of LOST are running parallel (Season 4 echoed season 3, season 5 echoes season 2). Sayid has become season 5's Henry Gale! A prisoner who must lie about his true identity for a greater purpose.

11. So, now that Ben and Sayid are meeting in 1977, will 2007 Ben have a new memory of Sayid (like Desmond did of Faraday)?

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MikeyC

03-20-2009, 05:56 PM

I'm not sure that I'm on board with the whole "jughead" is buried where they built the Swan theory. I'm not aware that nuclear bombs are magnetic. Plus, the hatch imploded not exploded as a nuke would do.

ucla695

03-20-2009, 08:35 PM

After watching this week's episode last night and during my daily commute this morning, I thought of the parallelism of Ben and Sayid. Especially after he was captured by Jin and the other Darma guy. My memory is sketchy, but the food thing in the camp rings a bell too. Didn't Locke offer food and was sympathetic to Ben when he was captured? Is Sayid the new Ben and will do whatever is necessary? I can't help but wonder????

dannysguitar

03-26-2009, 08:42 AM

WHOA! Last night's episode blew my freakin mind! I'm still trying to digest everything!

Mugen910

03-26-2009, 08:44 AM

There is no way Sayid was successful...No way at all!:hm

kaisersozei

03-26-2009, 09:22 AM

There is no way Sayid was successful...No way at all!:hm

Couple things occured to me on this:

If Sawyer & Company are actually on the same timeline as the original Dharma Initiative, then I agree. Ms. Hawking was a firm believer in not being able to alter an event timeline once it was established (e.g., Desmond & the dude with the red shoes.) However, we have seen how the Losties--Locke in particular--have been able to alter future events by interacting with people in the past (Richard, Jughead, etc.), so I'm not so sure now...

What if the island reset to the 70s and is now on a NEW timeline (i.e., it's along a different path/node?) Can't the Losties impact that timeline, so that Sayid could be successful? And what would that do to the Ben who is stuck in the present along a different timeline with Lapidus & Sun?

On a related topic: Ben continues to get his ass kicked week after week. This time by dear old dad. :D

Skywalker

03-26-2009, 09:29 AM

WHOA! Last night's episode blew my freakin mind! I'm still trying to digest everything!

:tpd: Wha???:confused:

Mugen910

03-26-2009, 09:37 AM

Couple things occured to me on this:

If Sawyer & Company are actually on the same timeline as the original Dharma Initiative, then I agree. Ms. Hawking was a firm believer in not being able to alter an event timeline once it was established (e.g., Desmond & the dude with the red shoes.) However, we have seen how the Losties--Locke in particular--have been able to alter future events by interacting with people in the past (Richard, Jughead, etc.), so I'm not so sure now...

What if the island reset to the 70s and is now on a NEW timeline (i.e., it's along a different path/node?) Can't the Losties impact that timeline, so that Sayid could be successful? And what would that do to the Ben who is stuck in the present along a different timeline with Lapidus & Sun?

On a related topic: Ben continues to get his ass kicked week after week. This time by dear old dad. :D
:tu nice...didn't even think of the Timeline resetting.

Skywalker

03-26-2009, 01:48 PM

Couple things occured to me on this:

If Sawyer & Company are actually on the same timeline as the original Dharma Initiative, then I agree. Ms. Hawking was a firm believer in not being able to alter an event timeline once it was established (e.g., Desmond & the dude with the red shoes.) However, we have seen how the Losties--Locke in particular--have been able to alter future events by interacting with people in the past (Richard, Jughead, etc.), so I'm not so sure now...

What if the island reset to the 70s and is now on a NEW timeline (i.e., it's along a different path/node?) Can't the Losties impact that timeline, so that Sayid could be successful? And what would that do to the Ben who is stuck in the present along a different timeline with Lapidus & Sun?

On a related topic: Ben continues to get his ass kicked week after week. This time by dear old dad. :D

:tu nice...didn't even think of the Timeline resetting.

Yeah! Nice! Wha???:confused:

Mugen910

03-26-2009, 02:02 PM

LOST 5 - Episode 10 "He's Our You"
1. Young Sayid's sacrificial act (killing the chicken) reminded me of Mr. Eko's flashback, in which warlords ordered Eko's brother Yemi to kill an unarmed man or be killed himself. Yemi couldn't do it. To save his life, Eko stepped up and did the deed.

2. The book that young Ben brings to Sayid is "A Separate Reality." The text is basically a thesis on the need for psychotropic drugs to achieve a proper state for seeing an alternate reality.

3. "You never brought me a sandwich" spoken by Ben's dad, Roger. This is the same line Ben gave Juliet back when she was bringing Jack all those great lunches in season 3 at the Hydra Station.

4. Radzinsky threatened to call Ann Arbor, Michigan for guidance on what to do with Sayid. If you remember correctly, the hippie couple who started the Dharma Initiative were Gerald and Karen DeGroot (at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor). We saw them in the Swan and Pearl Hatch Orientation films.

5. Remember when Goodwin's wife, Harper, told Juliet (Ben's crush at the time) "you look so much like her". Perhaps adult Ben liked Juliet because she reminded him of someone he had a crush on when he was a kid in Dharmaville... Juliet! Hahahaha!

6. Themes we've seen before - mind altering drugs, a teepee-like sweat lodge, pulling a gun to shoot someone to fix a mess. From the season 3 episode "Further Instructions" where Locke's flashback revealed he lived with pot-growing hippies who were infiltrated by an FBI agent named Eddie. The on-island scenes in that episode showed Locke in a sweat lodge experimenting with drugs to help him realize his purpose on the island. I love how this show repeats themes!

7. Sawyer's Long Con? When Sawyer and Richard met to discuss the business of Paul's body (2 weeks ago) perhaps Sawyer told Richard that his people will help orchestrate the Purge. This may be why Richard tells Ben he'll have to "be very patient". I believe Sawyer is playing the Dharma Initiative and keeping his friends in the dark for their own safety. He's good at pulling a long con (remember how he pulled a long con on Cassidy and on the Losties to get the guns?).

8. Popular opinion is that Ben knew he had to solidify Sayid's killing nature and his hatred for Ben so that when returning to the past, Sayid would shoot him. It seems that Sayid's hunting down and killing of Widmore's buddies never really meant anything in the grand scheme of things. Not only were these killings unnecessary, they might not even have been related to anything other than planting the seeds of murder in Sayid's brain. To hone his killing instinct. Ben orchestrated the whole thing. He even lied about how Locke died so that Sayid would spring back into action to protect Hurley. In summary... Ben wanted Sayid to shoot his younger self and helped him reach the mental/ emotional state he would need to be in to shoot an innocent child for the greater good.

9. Maybe Ben getting shot in 1977 will somehow delay or prevent him from joining the hostiles (I'm assuming he survives the gun shot)? Maybe the purge will be avoided? Somehow 2007 Ben understands that getting shot in the past will cause ripples through time that will change things in a direction favorable to his master plan.

10. A theory I read and liked... "Have you considered that maybe the 2004 the 815ers were in was never meant to be? Maybe by going back in time and changing things, Sawyer and friends are course correcting flukes in the past that weren't supposed to happen. Things went wrong...maybe because Locke didn't make it to the island on time, and Ben wasn't supposed to kill all the Dharma people, and Locke would have been leader earlier... maybe the wrong side won and so now they're back in time to change it."

11. Attached is a close-up of Hurley's jumpsuit with Dharma kitchen logo. Someone pointed it out and I thought it was funny so I grabbed a photo of it. It's a chef's hat with an X below. It reminds me of a skull and crossbones. Funny for a kitchen logo! :)

TheJ

03-26-2009, 08:50 PM

Ben gets shot. Bravo. Well done. Finally an episode where I come away somewhat if not completely satisfied.

kaisersozei

03-27-2009, 05:37 AM

One question I had (well, there's more than one, but just one that I thought might have an easy answer by someone less forgetful than me :D): if Sawyer & Co., are stuck in the 70s, where did he get the taser he used on Sayid? Has he always had a taser on him--say, from the present?--and have we seen it before? That stuck out to me, for some reason.

TheJ

03-27-2009, 01:44 PM

mrreindeer

03-27-2009, 01:56 PM

JUST watched the most recent episode last night...holy SH!T!

And got all caught up but can't find the damn season premiere anywhere....what the heck do I do?

I want to go in and read more of this thread (haven't wanted to because I wasn't caught up)....

But I'm just wondering 2 things after all this:

a) why is Sayid doing Ben's dirty work
b) why the heck the Others are at odds with the Dharma gang to begin with....

Mugen910

03-27-2009, 02:13 PM

Go read up Dave!

Cigargal

03-27-2009, 05:54 PM

Poor Dave...I'll help you with the first one...Ben told Sayid that the Widmore people killed his(Sayid's) wife-he is killing those folks for revenge.

BarneyBandMan

03-28-2009, 10:34 AM

2. The book that young Ben brings to Sayid is "A Separate Reality." The text is basically a thesis on the need for psychotropic drugs to achieve a proper state for seeing an alternate reality.

Yeah--forgot about this one until just now. I saw the book and immediately knew it by its cover. I told my wife it was a Carlos Castaneda book I had read back in 1978 while a freshman in college (don't all engineering majors read that stuff?). Several of us read the first three books he had written and ordered up some shrooms and peyote from ads in High Times. I never achieved the higher level of consciousness. Sigh...I may not be "Others" material...nor did I end up an engineer.:dance:

Ollie

04-02-2009, 01:14 PM

This "58 minutes of connect-the-dots followed by 2 minutes of OMG-OMG" format is getting a little old.

There should be an awesome episode coming up soon...

Cyanide

04-02-2009, 02:22 PM

Cigargal

04-02-2009, 04:20 PM

Seems like every once in a while they have to throw in an episode that fills in the gaps. We found out what Kate did with Aaron, but I would sure like to know what happened to Daniel. He arrived with Sawyer & Co at the Dharma camp and we haven't seen him since that episode-where did he go?

Looks like things are going to heat up for Ben next week.

ucla695

04-04-2009, 09:08 PM

Uh, Bao. Was this week not 'note' worthy? :ss

Waynegro1

04-05-2009, 07:43 PM

I need my notes, Bao!! Where ya at, fratello:confused:
You're like a drug dealer. I'm hooked already, what do you want? :dr

Mugen910

04-05-2009, 07:47 PM

Uh, Bao. Was this week not 'note' worthy? :ss

I need my notes, Bao!! Where ya at, fratello:confused:
You're like a drug dealer. I'm hooked already, what do you want? :dr

Chit!! Sorry...

dunng

04-05-2009, 07:49 PM

Feed ME! :tt

:D

Mugen910

04-05-2009, 08:00 PM

LOST 5 - Episode 11 "Whatever Happened Happened"
1. Ellie Hawking and Charles Widmore are in charge of the Others at this time, but Richard does not answer to them. What exactly is the leadership structure of the Others?

2. The helicopter whisper question was resolved. Take care of Clementine, Sawyer apparently told Kate, referring to the daughter that he had with his former partner in crime, Cassidy. Cassidy refresher: Kate had once shared an adventure with Cassidy - they went on a road trip together; Cassidy helped misdirect the FBI so Kate could have a conversation with her mother. Back in season 3, we got a flashback episode where Sawyer became a jailhouse snitch and in return got a bundle of cash which he passed on anonymously to Clementine which explains Cassidy and Clementine's nice life in the suburbs.

3. In Season 2 "Maternity Leave" Claire is the medical Dharma Station, delirious. Ethan injects her with something, then brings her to a nursery filled with toys and pictures. Above a crib is a mobile with airplanes that plays "Catch a Falling Star." Kate was singing this song to Aaron in this week's episode. Also, when Claire met with the couple who were going to adopter her baby she asked them if they knew that song. That was right before 3 pens wouldn't work and she changed her mind about giving him up.

4. Kate went back to the island for Claire, not Sawyer. Sawyer helped save Ben for Juliet, not Kate. Let's hope that means the soap opera love quadrangle is in the past. :)

5. Roger Lines "My son stole my keys so he could bust that animal out of jail. Because of me. I thought I was going to be the greatest father ever. I guess it didn't work out that way. I tried to do what she wanted me to do. But I guess a boy just needs his mother.'' We don't know anything about the Ben-Roger relationship from this point until the Purge, which is about 15 years into the future. It would be a tragic irony if we were to learn that Roger had changed as a result of this crisis, that he wanted to be a better father and redeem himself in Ben's eyes, but Ben couldn't or wouldn't allow that to happen because he had been made into cold, hard, and innocence-challenged during his recuperation in Richard's Temple.

6. This is kinda silly, but when Kate went to see Claire's mom (Mrs. Littleton) the hotel room was K10. According to Kate, Kate's room was ''two doors down'' from Mrs. Littleton's room. Therefore, K10 - 2 = K8 (Kate). :)

7. Miles and Hurley (so funny!) Their banter culminated on a point that LOST seemed to want us to keep thinking about: Why didn't Ben acknowledge knowing Sayid when Sayid was torturing him in season 2 during The Hatch/Henry Gale period? Perhaps we know why now... Richard said that if he helped Ben, Ben would not remember any of this. What ever that means... Sayid shooting him? Going to the Temple? We shall see!

8. Speaking of that... Remember the list from season 2? The list of Losties that Ben wanted Michael to bring to the dock? That list was Hurley, Kate, Jack, and Sawyer. The same people that young Ben would have remembered from his childhood in Dharmaville. Maybe he saw their names on the 815 flight manifest and went "OMG I remember those names! They crashed here?!?! Bring them to me." Crazy stuff! See attached for list...

9. Kate and Jack's conversation... Kate: ''You know I don't like the new you. I liked the old you. The one who didn't sit around and wait for things to happen.'' Jack: ''You didn't like the old me, Kate.'' Hilarious!

10. Juliet and Jack: Juliet "Why did you come back?" Jack: ''I came back because I was supposed to.'' Juliet: ''Supposed to do what?'' Jack: ''I don't know yet.'' Juliet: ''Well, you better figure it out.'' Watching and listening to Jack talk about Island destiny was a little bit like watching and listening to... John Locke. *gasp*

11. What will happen to Ben after the Island "heals" him? In the Bible, the fall from innocence was a result of eating from a tree that gave Adam and Eve forbidden knowledge. Is that what Ben's going to get? Knowledge of his future? Regardless, once again, the castaways are being made to understand that their participation in past events is shaping the future that they have already experienced. They have themselves to blame for the thing that is Benjamin Lines. Remember when Karl was getting brainwashed in Room 23? The presentation read We are the causes of our own suffering.

12. A recent Podcast with the show's creators revealed where they said they named Christian Shephard because they wanted him to "show the way." They also said that when people ask if Claire is dead, what people should be asking is "What is dead?" I swear, these guys are just messing with us half the time. :)

13. If Locke is the new Christian (traveled back to the island in a coffin, wearing white tennis shoes) then maybe Christian was murdered too? We have been lead to believe that he drank himself to death...

14. Don't ever trust Kate with a secret!
15. When Jin turns young Ben over, the bullet hole in his hoodie is now on the exact opposite side of his chest - on the other side of the zipper. It's not even close, it's a complete mirror image of the spot where Sayid drilled him precisely through the heart. Continuity error? Not on LOST, and we're seeing exactly what the island wants us to see, through Jin's eyes. But through the eyes of Sayid the bullet went right through the kid's heart. See attached photos regarding Ben's wound...

17. Ben used to tell us that he was born on the island... Whatever he remembers, I think after the temple Ben is given the standard issue island re-birthing package. Desmond got one after he turned the failsafe key. Christian got one, Locke certainly got one.

Mugen910

04-05-2009, 08:03 PM

18. This is an excerpt from a LOST blog that I like and take a lot of my stuff from. I loved it and thought you might like it too... that is, if you want to spend the time reading it, but I think it's totally worth the 5 minutes!

"Perception, Illusion, and Bruce Willis
In all the movies and shows I've ever watched, my biggest holy crap moment came at the end of the Sixth Sense. I was lucky enough to see that movie without knowing the ending, and I'll never forget the shivers that shot down my spine during the big reveal. Even cooler, they spent the next minute or so going back to show me just how many clues I'd missed along the way - clues that seemed so obvious at the end, but not so obvious as the story was told.

LOST's ending is going to be exactly this way. There's going to be one big huge crazy no-way reveal, and when it comes it's going to make time travel look like a secondary sub-plot. Half the viewers will act cataclysmically pissed off, but to the other half I think it will be the most ingenious thing they've ever seen.

As I watch LOST, I look for these clues. I think back to my seat in the movie theater during the Sixth Sense, and I'm trying not to get fooled again. The producers and writers have strewn clues everywhere... all over the show. But they pepper these clues with red herrings, songs, book titles, and comedic anagrams to the point where we just chuckle and start to disregard them. Kind of like the word "Illusion" on the back of the boat at the dock scene this episode (and last episode). We've seen this dock scene three times already, and each time with suddenly different dialogue, just as the wound on Ben's chest suddenly has a different position, just as the picture frames changed in Miles' flashback and a whole host of other stuff.

Humor me for a minute, and watch Kate and Aaron in the supermarket. She asks where the juice boxes are, gets distracted by Jack's call, and then loses Aaron. Watch the look the stock boy gives her when she tells him she lost her son: as he says "excuse me" his facial expressions register confusion, not concern for someone who just walked by with a little blonde boy in tow. Rewind to when Kate first asks the question, and the stock boy never even looks at Aaron. In fact, no one looks at Aaron in the supermarket at all, except for Kate. As she frantically runs through the aisles the next scene is shown, not surprisingly, in the store's giant mirror.

Suddenly Kate sees Aaron again, this time seemingly being led away by Claire. We know Claire is supposed to raise Aaron, and the island is showing Kate this. It's slapping her in the face with the fact that she's living a lie. It leads Kate back to Cassidy's house, where Clementine answers the door. "Hi Auntie Kate!", she says. She doesn't say hi to Aaron. She doesn't even look at Aaron. Strange too, because Aaron apparently rang the bell.

Later on, Kate gives Carole a picture of Aaron on a tire swing. Immediately she asks "Where is he?" Kate answers her question with "two doors down", but Carole continues to stare at the photo. Where is he indeed.

Okay, let me back up a minute. Am I saying that I believe Aaron's nothing more than a figment of Kate's imagination, and that he never existed at all? Nope. Aaron is as real as reality gets - on LOST, anyway. There are lots of people who see and interact with Aaron - Cassidy for one. But I am saying this: Cassidy's words this episode were all about how Kate needed Aaron, instead of the other way around. The minute Kate began wondering if Aaron wouldn't be better off without her, he suddenly and instantaneously disappeared.

Yes, I know they used the whole curly blonde woman scene as a vehicle to influence Kate's decision to leave Aaron with grandma. The scene where she said goodbye to Aaron was also very touching. But what if perception plays more of a part in every single character's story than most of us are really, truly looking into? What if every time we're seeing something, we're only seeing it from the perspective of the person or people involved in that scene at the time?

Season 2 Episode 1 - Swan Hatch. Desmond's record player, the lamps, the shelves - it all looks one particular way. An episode later Desmond storms off into the jungle and the 815er's inhabit the Swan... and suddenly all these things have a subtly different look to them. What if these things never changed at all, but the way people saw them did? Sayid saw a bullet hole in the left side of Ben's chest. Jin saw it in the right side. And when Sawyer and Kate take Ben out of the van together, the wound is now lower down, much closer to his abdomen. Is this their own vision of where the wound is? Or am I crazy? "

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Mugen910

04-05-2009, 08:04 PM

Sorry sorry...totally spaced out on this. Thanks for the reminder.

G G

04-05-2009, 08:06 PM

Too much thinkin involved for me.

ucla695

04-07-2009, 08:12 PM

Thanks for posting this Bao! Now I just have to digest it.

Cigargal

04-07-2009, 11:19 PM

Huh? How come I miss all this $h!t? I didn't notice the gunshot wound moving around at all. I think Roger is sweet on Kate-maybe they hook up in the 70's.

Where is Daniel? What's he been doing the last three years?

Waynegro1

04-08-2009, 12:11 AM

Thanks for my weekly fix, Bao. :tu

Mugen910

04-08-2009, 07:41 AM

It was a little late...next time you guys should remind me :D

Mugen910

04-09-2009, 07:18 AM

Subject: LOST Podcast news
My friend got the chance to listen to the last few Podcasts and took some notes...

1. This week the episode will address:
John Locke - how he is alive
Picking up the Penny story - how did Ben get beaten up
Why Ben killed Locke

2. Later this season we will learn:
Why did Miles request $3.2M to help Ben back when Ben was being held captive by the Losties in Dharmaville? This will be answered with specificity by Miles before the end of the season!
We will see enough of the 4-toed statue to decipher what it is.
We will see Ethan again ... and not as a baby.

3. One question that a viewer asked addressed the dream that Walt had where he saw Locke, in a suit, surrounded by people who wanted to hurt him... the show's producers said that we should consider the 2 times Locke's been in a suit... in the coffin and when he returns to the island. Which group of people wanted to hurt him or ended up hurting him? Jack and Ben or the Ajira 316 survivors?

4. The producers said that the concrete wall in Swan Hatch does have an energy source behind it and that pushing the button dispelled some of that built up energy.

5. The following will be addressed before the show ends (which probably means we won't see them until next season):
The Magic Box will be back... remember how Ben made Locke's con-man dad appear on the island?
Pallet drops... why did they stop, did they stop, who sent them?
Claire...
Cindy and the kids (Zack and Emma)...
Cave skeletons...

That's all for now.

Waynegro1

04-09-2009, 07:55 AM

Thanks for the info, Bao.
Last nights episode was a wild one, I found myself thinking about it as I was trying to fall asleep last night. While it's starting to come together, I find myself still LOST. Looking forward to the weekly notes. :tu

Cigargal

04-11-2009, 12:34 PM

What's with survivors on the small island? Where did they get all that crap about the 4-toed statue? And like, Lapidis is suppose to know anything about it? He got there when they did.

Mugen910

04-13-2009, 08:27 AM

Subject: LOST 5 - Episode 12 "Dead is Dead"
1. Anubis - Anubis (the jackal-headed Egyptian god) is seen etched with Smokey in Smokey's chamber (see attached "Smokey's chamber"). Anubis was the guide of the dead on their path through the underworld. The Ancient Egyptians believed that when you died, you traveled to the Hall of the Dead. There Anubis weighed your heart against the feather of Ma'at. Ma'at, the goddess of justice sits on top of the scales to make sure that the weighing is carried out properly. You can see Anubis steadying the scales to make the weighing fair (see attached "anubis"). If your heart was lighter than the feather, you lived forever. If your heart was heavier than the feather then it was eaten by the demon Ammit, the Destroyer.

2. Ilana's riddle: What lies in the shadow of the statue? Looks like somebody came to the Island prepared for a hostile takeover, if not a war - perhaps the very same war Widmore spoke to Locke about. Ilana gave Lapidus a sphinx-like riddle test that made her sound as if she was intimately acquainted with the Island's ancient mythology. A related story is about the Great Sphinx at Giza... The story is that the Sphinx was nearly buried in sand and a man slept in the shadow of his head and had a dream that the sphinx told him that he was dying from the sand suffocating him, and that if the man unburied him from the sand, he would become pharaoh over Egypt. So the man saved the sphinx by digging it out of the sand and eventually killed his own brother, the pharaoh, and became pharaoh himself.
(Kinda reminds me of the riddle from seasons 1 and 2... "what did one snowman say to the other".)
I think that Ilana works for Widmore... either that or she and her friends are infected like Rousseau's crew, however I don't think we've ever seen Smokey on that little Hydra Island so I'm going to assume she works for Widmore. Maybe Widmore himself is inside that metal crate??? Lol. ;)

3. Widmore - Widmore previously told Locke that he was tricked off the island by Ben but last night's episode seemed to tell us otherwise. Widmore fathered a child (Penelope) with an ''outsider," spent too much time off the Island, and exploited the Island for selfish gain. Doesn't really seem like he was tricked...

4. More Widmore - Widmore was pissed that Richard brought Young Ben to the Temple (Jacob wanted Ben brought to the Temple). Widmore probably felt threatened. It's been suggested that Jacob likes to play favorites, so Widmore probably realized right away that Ben represented a rival/ threat.

5. Doubting Thomas - St. Thomas professed his faith in Jesus (post crucifixion) only after being offered the opportunity to touch Jesus' wounds - according to the author of the Gospel of John. We saw the Doubting Thomas painting, which portrays this, in the Lamppost Station (Ms. Hawking's church - see attached "Thomas painting" and "Saint_Thomas" photos).
Ben told Locke that he knew his Island magic would bring Locke back, however the surprise on Ben's face certainly suggested otherwise. Much like Jack, Ben had to see it to believe it. So many religion themes in this show.

6. Smokey's "telephone" - what is the significance of having water as the barrier that prevents Smokey from getting out? I'm going to look into this...

7. Ben's house - Weird, but Ben's Dharmaville house was originally a Dharma Initiative house, right?... so why did it come with a moving bookshelf and access tunnel to Smokey??? Interesting...

8. Smokey's judgement - As we saw with the death of Mr. Eko, passing judgment is all about repentance, and not so much about the sins committed. Ben to Locke: "You know, you were right... I did kill Alex". This type of repentance is exactly what the smoke monster is looking for. Had he not gained this important insight, Ben would've been destroyed just like Eko. This is pretty similar to Mr. Eko's judgment in The Cost of Living. The monster, appearing as Yemi, reminds Eko of all the terrible things he's done. But Eko feels differently - he feels that these things were all forced upon him and he refuses to repent. He denounces the monster's judgment, and it destroys him for it. Ben's penance, as he tells Locke: "It let me live..." - Ben must forever live with the guilt of having his daughter's death on his hands.

9. Alex's death - She was supposed to die as an infant, but didn't. Many years later, Alex's death happens anyway... and this brings about a really important question that Widmore would mention at his exile: was she supposed to die all along? Once Ben's chain of command had broken down, did the island use Keamy as a tool to course correct? Or was Alex's death on Widmore's orders, thinking that by correcting this mistake it would somehow help him back into the island's favor? This is why Ben so adamantly asked Keamy if Widmore had instructed him to kill Alex.

10. Desmond survives! - Apparently, Mythbusters had an episode that showed a bullet can be stopped by only a few inches of water (or milk). Ben should've watched that episode.

11. See the attached photos "Qabalah & Anubis," "Kabbalah Tree of Life diagram," and "Tree of Life 2." These are very reminiscent of the Blast Door Map and hatch diagrams. The Tree of Life is mentioned in many different religions. Per Wikipedia: A tree of life is variously, a) a mystical concept alluding to the interconnectedness of all life on our planet, b) a metaphor for common descent in the evolutionary sense, and c) a motif in various world theologies, mythologies and philosophies.

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Mugen910

04-13-2009, 08:29 AM

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Cigargal

04-13-2009, 10:11 AM

I think that Ilana works for Widmore... either that or she and her friends are infected like Rousseau's crew, however I don't think we've ever seen Smokey on that little Hydra Island so I'm going to assume she works for Widmore. Maybe Widmore himself is inside that metal crate??? Lol.

I think so too. She doesn't seem too upset at having lost her prisoner. I think she has another agenda. I hope we find out the answer to her riddle this season or it will bug the heck out of me...

Mugen910

04-17-2009, 09:44 AM

Subject: LOST 5 - Ep. 13 "Some Like It Hoth"

1. Episode title is a play on "Some Like It Hot," a movie about two guys on the run from the mob, but also refers to a planet from Star Wars called Hoth (covered in ice and snow). But Hoth is also a god in Norse mythology: a blind god; misled by Loki (god of mischief), Thoth kills his brother Balder by throwing a shaft of mistletoe. Balder is the god of light.

Or, you could read the episode title as Some Like I THOTH. In Egyptian mythology Thoth was the god of wisdom, time, writing, the moon, and had the head of an ibis (bird). Thoth invented hieroglyphs. He was the measurer of the earth and the counter of the stars, the keeper and recorder of all knowledge. The Book of Thoth had two spells in it. If you read the first spell aloud, you would be able to understand every beast and bird, and summon the fishes in the sea. If you read the second spell, you could bring the dead to life. Displaying his role as arbitrator, Thoth had overseen the three epic battles between good and evil.

2. Naomi and the dead guy, Felix: In the episode ''Meet Kevin Johnson,'' Mr. Friendly/ Tom showed Michael all sorts of stuff - including photos of an exhumed cemetery - that he claimed was proof that Charles Widmore was behind the hoax plane crash in the ocean. So, did Tom kill Felix and swipe his stuff? Or is it possible that Charles Widmore wasn't behind the fake Oceanic 815 crash at all, that it was actually Ben who was behind it, and that Felix was killed to prevent him from reporting the scheme to Widmore?

3. Bram: The guy from the van who kidnaped Miles. Interesting that Bram and his people needed Miles to not want to get on the freighter. They could've just kept him for a week or two, causing him to miss the boat... but instead they tried to convince him not to go. Also, regarding Bram, he is the guy that was/will be with Ilana on the beach. When they were unpacking the guns on the beach, Bram and Ilana asked the code question to Frank (what lies in the shadow of the statue). See attached for a refresher photo. Who are Bram and Ilana working for? They must represent the 3rd party, that Widmore mentioned to Locke, in the war that's about to be waged.

A side note about the name Bram: Bram Stoker is the author of Dracula, the most famous "undead" person in literature. Stoker also wrote The Lair of the White Worm and The Jewel of Seven Stars. The first is about an ancient serpent living under an English manor, leading its inhabitants to the occult. The latter is about an attempt to reanimate an Egyptian mummy.
4.The theory is floating around that DHARMA is re-upping to take back "their" island. Is it possible that Widmore actually was involved in starting the Dharma Initiative... remember that the second protocol that Keamy took out of the safe from the freighter had a Dharma symbol on it (see attached)! What lies in the shadow of the statue - I wouldn't be surprised to see Dharma in 1977 using this same line in an upcoming episode. I think that people with different "clearance levels" in Dharma have different passwords. Kelvin wasn't high enough up to have the "statue" password, just the "snowman" one (remember the riddle from seasons 1,2 "what did one snowman say to the other?"). That would mean Ilana and Bram are also in Dharma's "Circle of Trust."

5. Miles and the money: Miles asked for double the money Widmore was going to pay, that's where the $3.2mil figure came from. It's possible that Miles demanded that from Ben because he thinks the guys in the van work for Ben, since they don't work for Widmore. Miles claimed his mission on the Island was to capture Benjamin Linus, but later offered to tell his employer (Widmore) that Ben was dead in exchange for $3.2 million.
6. Creepy line from Miles when Hurley asked him how he knew Chang was his father: ''Third day I was here, I was in line in the cafeteria and my mother got in line behind me. That was my first clue.'' Awesome.

7. Juliet - "here we go..." is what she said when the news started to spread about Ben missing from the infirmary. Why is she always so calm and collected? When she said "here we go" I thought it seemed like she knew what to expect or what was coming. Does she know more than she's letting on or is she really just that cool about everything???

8. Rain: Remember all those scenes in the jungle when it would rain/ downpour suddenly? We don't see that these days... at all. You could argue that it's because the Losties are in Dharmaville and not in the jungle but the island isn't SO big that it would never rain in Dharmaville! Usually we see the rain foreshadowing doom and gloom. But ever since everyone arrived at 70's Dharma, I can't think of a single time it rained. Weird.

9. Jack the janitor: There was lots of writing on the chalkboard behind Jack, all having to do with Egyptian mythology. More interesting though was the way Jack erased the boards... maybe we are looking too much into all this Egyptian stuff and in the end it will be as meaningless as seeing the Ajira flight number on the microwave. Maybe all this Egyptian mythology is a red herring???

10. Chang: Remember the Orchid Hatch orientation film that showed Chang and the two rabbits. Chang said "get them away from each other!" or something like that. I bet that Chang ends up finding out that Miles is really his son. Couple this with the fact that the Swan hatch is currently being built - which means that the incident can't be far off - and all kinds of crazy discoveries are about to happen with the Orchid... I bet that Chang sent his family off-island because he simply wanted to protect them. The crazy thing to ponder is that if Adult Miles is the one who spills the beans to his father, then he is the cause of his own unhappy life (daddy issues). Remember the brainwashing video "We are the cause of our own suffering!" *gasp!* :O
Also, Chang mentioned the other "ridiculous" experiments on the island. I bet that all the other experiments (zoology, Pearl Hatch monitoring station - remember the blank notebooks that dumped out to nowhere, etc) was really just a cover for what was going on at the Orchid and Swan Hatches.
11. Just as Hurley knows the Rebel base on Hoth will be overrun by AT-AT's he also knows that Dharma will be overrun by the Others (the Purge). He knows ahead of time that everyone's going to die. Miles, Dan... both of these people have told Hurley that this is inevitable - it can't be stopped no matter what they do. But here we have Hurley trying anyway, writing a new script for "Empire", attempting to change certain things. Hurley's silly belief that he can change this upcoming Star Wars movie is a reflection that he believes change can occur at all. Again, maybe Faraday was wrong when he said "whatever happened, happened..."

12. Faraday: The last time we saw Faraday he was a gibbering mess. The guy who steps out of the sub looks newly confident and ready to rock. Whatever he did in Ann Arbor (where the DeGroots founded the Dharma Initiative), it probably involved some rats and some mazes and some insane mathematics. I'll bet he came back to save his friends. Notice that he comes back to the island wearing a new black Dharma jumpsuit like the ones that are worn by the Swan Hatch builders.

13. Remember when I told you about the Dharma Wants You online game this past Autumn? We took quizzes and in the end were classified into different Dharma jobs (janitor, kitchen crew, mathematician, etc). Well, in the game if you were revealed to be on the Black Swan team it meant that you used cheats during the quizzes. Does this relate to the new black Dharma jumpsuits we are seeing??? Is this an allusion to the book The Black Swan: The Impact of The Highly Improbable? In his book, Nassim Nicholas Taleb speaks of ''black swan events'' - catastrophes and occurrences that invalidate widely held assumptions (he calls them "black swan events" because a black swan was discovered in Australia after everyone assumed that all swans are white). Remember what the Swan Hatch orientation film told us... how ''an incident'' shortly after the Swan's construction radically transformed its function. ''The Incident'' = ''Black Swan Event.'' I love this show!!!!

14. Remember the Dharma body in the grave who had the bullet hole in his head??? Guess it was actually a tooth filling and not a bullet hole.

15. Attached are some fun photos of the cast celebrating the 100th episode. The cake is really impressive! It's funny to see them smiling...

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Mugen910

04-21-2009, 01:53 PM

April 22nd, 2009 : 9:00-10:02
Special: "LOST: The Story of the Oceanic 6"
"ABC once again invites new and avid "Lost" viewers to take another look at one of the most talked about and critically acclaimed shows. "Lost: The Story of the Oceanic 6" will explore the series in a way that will bring new viewers up to date -- but which current viewers will also find illuminating -- in discovering what happened to the Oceanic 6 and the remaining island survivors during the three years after Ben moved the island."
***

Just wanted to share this... Remember the ring of ash that surrounded Jacob's cabin?
According to commentary for "The Man Behind the Curtain" (season 3 episode) on the Season 3 DVD by the producers, the circle of ash is "a bit of a kind of protection or magic or kind of containment. Ben is afraid to touch it. In a certain way, part of the idea here is that Ben has some powers over Jacob, and Jacob has some powers over Ben, and there is a bit of a stasis."

***
Found this on Wikipedia and wanted to send it out as it looks like The Frozen Wheel:

The Dharmacakra or Dhammacakka, "Wheel of Dharma" is a symbol representing dharma, the Buddha's teaching of the path to enlightenment. It is also sometimes translated as wheel of doctrine or wheel of law.

History: The Dharmacakra symbol is represented as a chariot wheel with eight or more spokes. It is one of the oldest known Buddhist symbols found in Indian art, appearing with the first surviving post-Harappan Indian iconography in the time of the Buddhist king Asoka. The Dharmacakra has been used by all Buddhist nations as a symbol ever since. In its simplest form, the Dharmacakra is recognized globally as a symbol for Buddhism.

Symbolism
A simplified version of the Dharmacakra

The eight spokes represent the Noble Eightfold Path of Buddhism. Other symbolism in the eight-spoked Dharmacakra in Buddhism:

* Its overall shape is that of a circle, representing the perfection of the dharma teaching
* The hub stands for discipline, which is the essential core of meditation practice
* The rim, which holds the spokes, refers to mindfulness which holds everything together

Skywalker

04-23-2009, 05:01 PM

Last nights show was a nice little update of the Oceanic Six!!!

I enjoyed the show without flashbacks for a change!!!:D

Cigargal

04-23-2009, 06:17 PM

Was there any new content?

kaisersozei

04-24-2009, 06:18 AM

Was there any new content?

Heck no :bh! All it did was put this past season in somewhat of a chronological order. Most fans had probably already figured everything out that they showed.

Ollie

04-24-2009, 08:46 AM

Well, there was the apparent confirmation that Widmore was the one that planted the plane/bodies on the bottom of the ocean. At least that's what the narrator said.

Mugen910

04-24-2009, 08:47 AM

I think we also assumed that from the last episode I believe.

Mugen910

04-29-2009, 07:39 AM

Anyone know who the girl with the hat is? I talked to her briefly while in the Louvre.

:dr

kaisersozei

04-29-2009, 07:57 AM

Anyone know who the girl with the hat is? I talked to her briefly while in the Louvre.

:dr

Are you fkn kidding me? Holy crap, Bao, that would have been the highlight of my trip--forget about those fancy paintings, brother! :dance:

Mugen910

04-29-2009, 07:58 AM

Are you fkn kidding me? Holy crap, Bao, that would have been the highlight of my trip--forget about those fancy paintings, brother! :dance:

It was the highlight of our trip in Paris :r She was soooo hot!!!!

dunng

04-29-2009, 08:00 AM

:dr :dr Did you interrogate her for info? :D

Mugen910

04-29-2009, 08:03 AM

:dr :dr Did you interrogate her for info? :D

haha she insisted that she wasn't the chick from Lost.

ucla695

04-29-2009, 09:07 PM

Anyone know who the girl with the hat is? I talked to her briefly while in the Louvre.

:dr

That's fricking awesome Bao. :dance:

Mugen910

05-01-2009, 09:19 AM

I just found out Kate and Ben were in Paris for something...Dammit how cool would that have been to meet Ben Linus!!!

kaisersozei

05-01-2009, 10:08 AM

I just found out Kate and Ben were in Paris for something...Dammit how cool would that have been to meet Ben Linus!!!

And she's a LIAAARR!

Mugen910

05-01-2009, 12:22 PM

And she's a LIAAARR!

haha ...she didn't fool me!...she was nice enough not to ignore me though..:tu

Mugen910

05-01-2009, 12:24 PM

Subject: LOST 5, ep 14 "The Variable"

1. Wired Magazine: See attached photo. The copy of the magazine Wired that was on Faraday's couch when Widmore visited him. It was the August 2003 issue - ''The Super-Powers Issue'' - devoted to the plausible science behind far-fetched stuff like invisibility, X-ray vision, and time travel. The headline: ''The Impossible Gets Real!'' The issue discussed two time travel theories favored by most LOST fans, Throne Plates and Kerr Rings. There's also this cover-touted article, ''The End of Cancer As We Know It,'' which can be found on...Page 108. Cancer, of course, has haunted LOST since season 1; and 108 is the sum total of all LOST's numbers (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42).
In the aforementioned Wired issue, one of eight abilities profiled in an article on plausible super-powers is total recall - rather ironic in light of Faraday's memory issues in the episode. Also featured: teleportation (Jack and co. getting beamed off the plane), regeneration (John Locke's legs; the Island's quick-healing powers), weather manipulation (meteorology was one of Dharma's fields of study); force fields (the sonic fence); underwater breathing, super-strength, and x-ray vision.

2. Smokey: Remember how in ''Dead Is Dead'' Smokey judged Ben for his daughter's death? Maybe that's why Eloise fled the Island - to escape Smokey's judgment for killing her son.

3. Staged Crash: Widmore confirmed that he was the one who created/ planted the fake Oceanic 815 crash. At least now we can be sure of that.

4. Desmond: He survived the gunshot. Perhaps he is the latest in a string of ex-Islanders who can't die back in the real world because their fates remain entangled with the Island (Jack, Michael). The island isn't done with him yet...

5. Scene changes from a previous episode: Yet another example how one scene is different depending on who is remembering it... in one episode, Sayid told Ben and Jack at the marina, ''I don't want any part of this. And if I see you, or him again, it will be extremely unpleasant for all of us.'' But in the Sayid-centric episode ''He's Our You,'' we saw the scene again, but this time Sayid spoke solely to Ben: ''And if I see you again, it'll be extremely unpleasant for us both.'' What do all of these scene discrepancies mean? Obviously, if the scene is re-shot then the writers could just go back to the previous script and have it recited word-for-word... but they don't.

6. Daniel in the Others' camp: He went to the Others' camp making sure he had a gun, and acted in a threatening manner uncharacteristic of him, I think we are led to the following conclusion: Daniel went to the Others' camp knowing that his mother would shoot him. And he did it precisely because he hopes it will get her to work to change what happened. ''You knew...you always knew this was going to happen...and you sent me here anyway...'' What happened doesn't matter because in Faraday's plan, it's what happens next that's most crucial.

7. Dr. Chang: Pressed by Miles to explain his disclosures to Dr. Chang, Faraday replied, ''Just making sure your father does what he's supposed to do. You'll see.'' Faraday's plan seemed to involve making sure some people do what they've always done, and making sure the Variables do something radically different. Or was Faraday manipulating Chang with some reverse psychology?

8. Jack the variable: Did Eloise want the incident to happen so that 815 would crash so that Jack (a surgeon) would be there when Daniel got shot? Daniel said that Jack's "not supposed to be here." Maybe Jack is the true variable? I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. :)

9. Eloise had to send/ sacrifice Daniel back to the island when Widmore offered him the freighter job. If he never went back and flashed into 1954 eventually, he could not have told the Others to bury the Jughead bomb and the island would have been destroyed meaning Daniel would never have even existed.

10. Faraday's journal was missing a page (see attached). Why would they show us that? :O

11. Sorry that I don't have anything more concrete... this episode threw me for a loop. I'm trying to wrap my brain around Hawking's/ Widmore's/ Ben's motives and can't seem to think straight!

kaisersozei

05-01-2009, 01:44 PM

Thanks, Bao!

Okay, I need someone to help me with capturing a screen shot. Here's what I'm trying to get: during the scene in this episode where Daniel & Eloise are having lunch (without the girlfriend...:D) there's a camera angle that includes both of them talking to each other across their table. I noticed that it was a really odd shot, because I thought that they were so far apart from each other--there was this big open space between them. Well, at the center of that open space, there was a woman sitting across the restaurant and she was turned at a really awkward angle, looking up at a painting/photo hanging on the wall behind her. This scene went on for a little while, and the woman never moved, even when they cut to a close-up of Daniel & then Eloise, she was still looking up at that painting/photo when the camera returned to that shot. It was really odd, too odd to be accidental.

So I'm interested to see what she was looking at. Anyone help out here, or point me to it? Or am I just over analyzing & looking too hard for weird crap like this? ;)

Mugen910

05-01-2009, 02:04 PM

might have to go to ABC.com and check that out sir. :tu

Cigargal

05-07-2009, 11:55 AM

What is Jack thinking? What an idiot!!

Here's what happens if Flight 815 never crashes on the island:

Most obvious, Kate goes to prison-where she becomes the property of a homicidal bull dyke.

Jack buries his father, becomes an achoholic in daddy's footsteps and dies of liver disease.

John Locke ends up back in the wheelchair

Jen becomes a gangster-He and Sun never have a baby because he is sterile-Sun never gets the balls to tell her father off and lives a miserable barren life.

Charlie is alive, but is a heroin addict and soon dies of an overdose.

Claire has her baby in LA and gives him up for adoption.

Rose dies of cancer.

Sawyer never finds love...

Juliet stays on the island and marries Ben(ech!!)

Desmond never finds Penny again...

Hurley... well Hurley is just Hurley

Bad idea, Jack!

Cyanide

05-07-2009, 01:30 PM

ActionAndy

05-07-2009, 02:03 PM

Juliet stays on the island and marries Ben(ech!!)

If he touches my girl I'm going to have to get a bit severe...

:D

kaisersozei

05-07-2009, 02:04 PM

If he touches my girl I'm going to have to get a bit severe...

:D

Tru dat, brother--"I got yer back" :tu

Mugen910

05-07-2009, 02:11 PM

Subject: LOST 5, ep. 15 "Follow the Leader"

1. Peter Pan: The episode title ''Follow The Leader'' is a direct nod to J.M. Barrie's Peter Pan. Connections: magical island inhabited by peculiar tribes of people working at cross-purposes, death and resurrection, ticking bombs, lost boys, never-aging enchanted beings. Peter Pan gives us ''The Peter Pan Complex,'' describing maturity-challenged adults who can't deal with reality and so try to change it (Jack), not to mention ''The Tinker Bell Effect,'' which according to Wikipedia ''describes those things that exist only because people believe in them''... things like ''a rule of law'' (see: Horace Goodspeed, ''We have a rule of law!'') and ''deities'' (Jacob).

LOST typically cites literature like this at the end of the season (Season 3, Alice in Wonderland; Season 4, The Wizard of Oz), so it's not too farfetched to consider the prospect that Peter Pan might hold a clue about how Season 5 will end. A clue in Chapter 5, entitled ''The Island Come True,'' in which Tinker Bell plays 'follow the leader' with Wendy, and guides her to a relatively safe part of Neverland following an attack by Captain Hook...where she betrays Wendy horribly by setting her up to be killed by the Lost Boys. (Tink was intensely jealous of the hold Wendy had on Peter's heart. Sounds like Juliet!) And so, of the many things that ''Follow The Leader'' put into motion for next week's finale, consider the possibility that a brutal and bloody betrayal might be one of them.

2. Richard Alpert: We saw him building a ship in a bottle. The moment will surely feed the theory that Alpert is either a descendant of the Black Rock castaways, if not a miraculously death-challenged survivor of the slave ship's crew. Or perhaps it's merely a metaphor for himself: something ancient, trapped inside the timeless bottle that is the Island.

Also, Richard told Sun that he remembers seeing them all (Hurley, Kate, Jack, etc) die in 1977. Was he lying? Was that the "original past" that he experienced? How is Jack's current 1977 going to affect/ change Richard's current 2007?

3. Richard to Ben: I'm starting to think John Locke is going to be trouble. BEN: Why do you think I tried to kill him?

Which time is Ben referring to? The time that he shot Locke at the Dharma grave? The time that he actually strangled Locke? :)

Richard has every right to fear Locke... after all, being direct is not a skill the Others ever managed to acquire, but with Locke's new found purpose it looks like that's going to change.

4. Radzinsky: His vehement assertion that the Swan station needs to stay on schedule seemed to indicate he's operating under a different set of orders. This was made even more clear by how easily he seized control away from Horace. So why are the bosses at Ann Arbor so obsessed with getting the Swan done? From what we know so far, its only purpose is to study a magnetic anomaly.

5. Widmore talks with Eloise at the Others' camp: We see him place his hand on her stomach, so we can assume she's already pregnant with Daniel at this time.

6. Irony: ''Follow The Leader'' gave us one arc in which Jack in the past schemes to produce paradox, and also gives us another arc in which John hustles to prevent paradox from occurring. Specifically, Locke was trying to avoid what is known as a ''bootstrap paradox,'' involving the acquisition and replacement of objects (the compass) and the receiving and imparting of information from future to past to future again. We could ask ourselves... where did the compass originate? Who knows. Locke gave it to Richard in 1954. Richard gave it to Locke in 2007. So, where and when did the compass come to be (get manufactured)??? It's a brain-twister.

7. Locke rallying the Others: Locke said. ''And to be honest with all of you, if there is a man telling us what to do, I want to know who he is.'' What a role reversal for Locke... aka Mr. Faith, I don't need to see it to believe it. Locke's rhetoric is that of the rational skeptic, demanding empirical proof. Jack is now the man of faith; Locke is now the man of science.

8. Locke wants to kill Jacob: Remember the ash surrounding Jacob's cabin? If the ash around his cabin is a means of keeping him trapped... then killing Jacob is a means to release him from whatever trap he's caught in. Also, perhaps there's a reason the cabin can't be found so easily. Maybe it's booby trapped so that it can't be found and thus, Jacob cannot be helped. I think Locke wants to help Jacob by killing him.

9. Faraday's notebook: The inscription from Eloise is different the 2 times we see it. See attached. Probably just a duplicate prop to look older but I wanted to mention it anyway since someone went to the trouble to point out the differences.

10. Ben: I think Ben's not half as stupid as he acts this episode. Michael Emerson is an amazing actor, which is why you can tell when he's intentionally over-acting. The reason for this is that Ben's slow-playing the island. He intentionally wants the island (acting through Locke) to think he's stupid, that way it doesn't perceive him as a threat. Thinking back to Alex tossing him around that Egyptian chamber and calling him out on his murderous thoughts, Ben is attempting to keep the island out of his head. Acting dumb is the best way he can think of to accomplish this right now.

11. If Jack succeeds, are they really better off? If Oceanic 815 arrived in LA safely, and never crashed, let's consider the situations our Losties would be in:

a) Kate would be on her way to jail

b) Jack would bury his father, Christian

c) Sawyer would go back to being a con man and may have ended up getting caught for killing the man in Australia

d) Locke would still be miserable in a wheelchair

e) Sayid would have probably been killed by the CIA or whoever he was working with

f) Hurley would still be rich but paranoid about being unlucky

g) Charlie would still be a drug addict

h) Claire would have given Aaron away to strangers
i) Sun would have left Jin and been on her own
j) rose would die of cancer

12. Attached is a theory that I liked by a blogger. He claims that Hurley is the game-changer. See attached, if interested.

ucla695

05-07-2009, 08:05 PM

Just finished watching this weeks episode. It's shaping up to be a good season finale. Can't wait. Just imagine what next season, the final one, will have in store. :)

JE3146

05-10-2009, 02:36 PM

The more questions that get answered, the more things get complex.... This show is as frustrating as it is fun to watch.

Skywalker

05-11-2009, 09:12 AM

The more questions that get answered, the more things get complex.... This show is as frustrating as it is fun to watch.

:tpd: I thought we might be wrpping things up as the show was maybe ending this season for good???

But it looks like this thing is just getting started!!!

Cigargal

05-11-2009, 10:53 AM

No, things are getting worse!

Mugen910

05-11-2009, 11:00 AM

No, things are getting worse!

I kinda of agree, it's still fun to watch but a bit more confusing...I never liked the way the writer ended Alias either..

woops

05-11-2009, 11:19 AM

:tpd: I thought we might be wrpping things up as the show was maybe ending this season for good???

But it looks like this thing is just getting started!!!

My understanding, from a friend who works at the local ABC station, is that after this season, there will be ONE more final season of LOST.

You know how things change though.

mosesbotbol

05-11-2009, 11:25 AM

I wonder if Jack's father is Jacob?

Mugen910

05-13-2009, 08:57 AM

Subject: Monday's LOST Podcast
I listened to the latest Podcast during lunch yesterday. Here is what the producers said that I thought was important:

1. This season's ending is reminiscent of season #1's ending (remember when the hatch light flicked on?). It will reveal much but also leave us dying for the next scene.

2. The compass - Richard noted in 2007 how it was rusty but still works, however when Locke gave it to him it was not rusty... so it's a bit of a mind bender since it's in a loop and seems to get rusty and then looks new again in 1954. They said that it is intentionally perplexing, it has no origin, Locke gave it to Richard then Richard gave it to Locke, an infinite loop, very intentional. Whatever the hell that means...

3. The Faraday/ Chang video from Comic Con is not cannon to the show... they had an intention to branch the story in an online game but the game fell through when the economy collapsed... so they had Faraday go to Ann Arbor rather than play out Faraday in 1977 Dharma where he would create the video. They said that the only thing that we can ever rely on as being cannon to the show is the show itself.

4. By the end of this season, and the end of the first episode next season, we should have enough info to theorize how the whole show will end.

Don't forget it's a 2-hour finale tonight (9-11pm) with a recap show at 8pm.

ActionAndy

05-13-2009, 09:07 AM

I'm betting either Sayid or Juliet bites it in this one. Let's hope it's not Juliet, she's too foxy...

Mugen910

05-13-2009, 09:17 AM

I'm betting either Sayid or Juliet bites it in this one. Let's hope it's not Juliet, she's too foxy...

:tu
:dr

I still argue with a female coworker about why Juliet is hotter than Kate..but either she doesn't get it or I such at arguing.

ActionAndy

05-13-2009, 10:02 AM

:tu
:dr

I still argue with a female coworker about why Juliet is hotter than Kate..but either she doesn't get it or I such at arguing.

Does your coworker resemble either of these women in any way? Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that Juliet is by far the foxier dame--and also much more intelligent. Kate is just some conniving "hot" girl--selfish, irrational, wishy washy. Such an annoying character.

Mugen910

05-13-2009, 10:05 AM

Does your coworker resemble either of these women in any way? Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that Juliet is by far the foxier dame--and also much more intelligent. Kate is just some conniving "hot" girl--selfish, irrational, wishy washy. Such an annoying character.

my coworker is a looker. :tu but yeah I'm trying to explain how kate is cute but not HAWT!

Juliet is more of an overall packaged deal. :dr

JE3146

05-13-2009, 12:27 PM

Juliet is the real deal. Hot hot hooooot :)

Kate is just bad girl eye candy. Fun to look at but no one you'd bring home to mother.
Posted via Mobile Device

Beagleone

05-13-2009, 09:02 PM

WOW! All I can say right now... WOW!

Mugen910

05-13-2009, 09:03 PM

WOW! All I can say right now... WOW!

Well. I guess I'll see you guys in 2010 :tu

ActionAndy

05-13-2009, 09:12 PM

>=(

Ok. So we know now that the big picture here is some sort of chess match between Jacob and The Man In Locke's Body.

Mugen910

05-13-2009, 09:20 PM

>=(

Ok. So we know now that the big picture here is some sort of chess match between Jacob and The Man In Locke's Body.

and Ben and Widmore

Beagleone

05-13-2009, 10:11 PM

Well, I knew Juliet wasn't returning next season. Nice way to go out and making sure zhe doesn't return at all!

BigCat

05-14-2009, 04:51 AM

Well, I knew Juliet wasn't returning next season. Nice way to go out and making sure zhe doesn't return at all!

How did you know that? When they showed the eye opening in the "preview" I thought it could of been her waking up. Of course, it happened so quickly that I don't know that for sure.

Beagleone

05-14-2009, 06:20 AM

There was something in Entertainment Weekly about the actress (Elizabeth Mitchell) who was working on new pilot shows for next season. The speculation was that she wouldn't be on the final season, and usually they would be killed off to close the character line.

kaisersozei

05-14-2009, 06:36 AM

That was the best season ending cliffhanger of any show that I have seen in a long, long time. Excellent!

And I have to admit: I did get a little choked up by the final Juliet-Sawyer scene. :( Noooooooooo!!!!

Ollie

05-14-2009, 07:13 AM

Wasn't this the first season finale without a Walt sighting?

ActionAndy

05-14-2009, 07:34 AM

Wasn't this the first season finale without a Walt sighting?

Indeed. I know it's a tv show and certain things are out of their control, but I hate knowing that stuff that seemed very crucial in the first few seasons turned out to be so irrelevant. Like the numbers, Walt, etc...

ucla695

05-16-2009, 10:09 AM

Great season finale. Of course, they raised more questions than they answered. Now we just have to wait 7 or so months to see how it all comes together.

That was the best season ending cliffhanger of any show that I have seen in a long, long time. Excellent!

And I have to admit: I did get a little choked up by the final Juliet-Sawyer scene. :( Noooooooooo!!!!

Say it isn't so. :(

kugie

05-17-2009, 09:43 AM

Jacobs Last words their coming. This was an awesome ending the best.

And a heads up The Kate and Juliet topic.
I would do them both again.

:wo:wo:fu:dr

dunng

05-19-2009, 06:05 PM

Any notes? Thanks Bao! :tu

JE3146

05-20-2009, 02:51 AM

No podcast? I'm curious to read stuff now :D

Cigargal

05-20-2009, 09:44 AM

go here for a fix - -> http://forum.lostpedia.com/index.php

Mugen910

05-20-2009, 09:45 AM

Any notes? Thanks Bao! :tu

Chit..I'm so sorry... I've got 3 emails worth of updates.

dunng

05-20-2009, 09:45 AM

Chit..I'm so sorry... I've got 3 emails worth of updates.

:eek:

Mugen910

05-20-2009, 09:46 AM

Subject: LOST 5, ep. 16 "The Incident" part 1
I have a lot about this finale... I'll save the larger theories for the next emails. They mostly relate to Jacob and anti-Jacob (that's what I'll call the man in the black shirt from the beach who later takes Locke's form). The morning after the show I was sure this was a Christ/ Anti-Christ story but now I'm thinking it won't be that specific. I think the whole show is about good vs evil (personified as these 2 men) with many different religions/ philosophies being combined. I got most of this information from a DarkUFO blog and the Doc Jenson analysis... sprinkled with some message board debate and my own thoughts.
Part 1.

1. The statue is still up for debate: It's either Sobek or Taweret. See attached photos. Quick summaries... it was Sobek who first came out of the waters of chaos to create the world. Sobek also came to symbolize the produce of the Nile and the fertility that it brought to the land. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situation, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part. He was also shown with an ankh (as seen in Paul's necklace), representing his ability to undo evil and so cure ills. Sobek was a morally ambiguous god who oversees dark waters and preys on sinful souls in the afterlife (like Smokey?). Even worse, Set, the Egyptian god of chaos and evil, was a shape shifter who often morphed into crocodiles and hippos in his clashes with archenemy Horus. Set was linked to infertility and was partial to fish and lettuce. We first see Jacob eating fish wrapped in greens.

Taweret was depicted as a composite of all the things the Egyptians feared, the major part of her being hippopotamus, with the arms and legs of a lioness, and with the back of a crocodile. On occasion, later, rather than having a crocodile back, she was seen as having a separate, small crocodile resting on her back, which was thus interpreted as Sobek, the crocodile-god, and said to be her consort. Taweret became seen, very early in Egyptian history, as a deity of protection in pregnancy and childbirth.

2. Jacob and Anti-Jacob on the beach: Jacob wants the Black Rock ship to come to the island. Anti-Jacob does not. He claims that people have always arrived bringing corruption, war, etc. Jacob has more faith in humanity and says that he chalks all that up to progress, meaning that there will be an end... eventually visitors will come and CHOOSE to do the right thing. He feels that man keeps getting it wrong but eventually will get it right.

In that beach conversation the Anti-Jacob was trying to convince Jacob that man/mankind simply wasn't worth it. However, it appears that Jacob has been bringing people to the island for a very, very long time. "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt"... these are the points Anti-Jacob makes to indicate once again that Jacob will fail to prove him wrong. Anti-Jacob seems to suggest that the darker sides of human nature won't allow the circle to be broken. No matter who's on the ship, or the next ship, (or the airplane...) "It always ends the same". Jacob's response: "It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress".
The dark man is resigned to the fact that LOST's loop will never be broken. He argues that man's destructive history and propensity for war will never allow anything but corruption. And with that he wants Jacob dead... but must find a loophole to make it happen. Apparently they cannot physically kill each other.

The Biblical story states that Jacob was the younger brother of Esau. Esau was a hunter and his father's favorite, Jacob was more of a thinker. When their father was dying, Jacob tricked him into giving Jacob Esau's birthright. That could be the significance of the name Jacob. Maybe the guy we saw at the beginning hated Jacob because Jacob stole everything that was his (the island). It says in the Bible that God wanted Jacob to be the leader and receive the birthright. I don't think the Anti-Jacob is Esau but I wanted to include this story as it may have some relevance. In the Bible Jacob blesses his children by touching them and subsequently makes them leaders. As we see later, LOST's Jacob touches the 815ers in flashbacks.

3. The Tapestry: See attached. Jacob is weaving it... much like he is weaving (intricately) the Losties' lives so they will subsequently come to this island. I think he wanted to bring this group of people to the island all along... with them John Locke, who he knew would be used as a vehicle for his enemy to kill him. I think Jacob planned for this all along. More on that in another email.

Also, he left part of the tapestry in the cabin as a signal for where Ilana's crew can find him.

The phrases on the tapestry have been translated. They are from Homer's Odyssey. The top quote reads "may the gods grant thee all that thy heart desires". Another passage is woven into the middle of the tapestry. It can be only partly seen, but the passage in full reads, "may the gods grant thee happiness". It occurs twice in the Odyssey.

Mugen910

05-20-2009, 09:48 AM

Subject: LOST 5, ep. 16 "The Incident" part 2
Part 2.

1. Rose and Bernard (and Vincent!) at the cabin: So cute. Rose "It's always something with you people." :)

2. Lapidus, Bram and Ilana: What is Lapidus a candidate for? To be on the "good guy team?" I love how his eyes/ eyebrows do as much acting as he does. Bram and Ilana surprisingly do appear to be "good," and are on Jacob's side. There goes the "they are Dharma trying to reorganize" theory. So does that mean Widmore is aligned with Anti-Jacob, as Bram warned Miles that he should NOT go on Widmore's mission? Oh, remember how Bram said that it was Miles' choice and that Miles needed to NOT WANT TO GO? Bram is, like Jacob, depending on free will... the right to choose, the ability to do the right thing. That being said, Widmore still confuses me.

3. Smokey/ Anti-Jacob: I think they are one in the same. I think Smokey/ Anti-Jacob can only take the form of dead people (Yemi, Alex, Christian, Locke) who are not buried. That might explain why it was so important to Richard and the Others that the bodies of the hostiles who were holding Amy and Paul at gun point needed to be buried. Also, the Others gave Danny Pickett's wife (who Sun shot) a Viking burial (set her on fire at sea). This was all to keep Smokie from using their forms.

Smokey used Alex to convince Ben to follow Locke or Ben would be destroyed. Fake Locke (Smokie/ Anti-Jacob) brought Ben and Alpert to the beechcraft plane so Alpert could convince Real Locke he had to die, thus allowing Anti-Jacob to use Locke's form. The loophole (referred to on the beach in the opening scene) was getting Ben to do his dirty work, because Smokie/ Anti-Jacob can't touch Jacob himself. He realizes that he needs to get Real Locke off island in order to kill him, then use Christian to manipulate Real Locke into turning the wheel and returning to the outside world, where it knows Real Locke will be killed, while at the same time planting seeds in Real Locke's head that he'll need to die in order to come back. Ingenious!!! Fake Locke was the one who told Richard to tell Real Locke that he needed to die to bring the 815ers back! I love it!

4. Sayid: He's close to death and realizes his soul can never be saved. It doesn't really matter what Jack does, the sum of Sayid's past sins is just too great. Even if he makes it, he can never atone. As Ben said "You are a killer. It's what you do."

5. Riddle: What lies in the shadow of the statue? Translated as "He who will save us all."

6. Jacob reading Flannery O'Conner's book: As Locke was being pushed out that window, Jacob was reading the book Everything That Rises Must Converge. O'Conner typically writes stories where the righteous are skewed and exposed as hypocrites, while the worst sinners end up becoming unwitting or unwilling conduits for God's grace. The book is titled Everything That Rises Must Converge - from a phrase coined by a Catholic provocateur named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, who concocted a theory of evolution called "Omega Point." Basically, it's the idea that there is some kind of transcendent entity or consciousness that is guiding everyone and everything toward greater complexity and enlightenment, until everyone and everything becomes transcendent, too. More simply, it's Jacob's view: There is a single end; everything before then is progress (as he said in the beginning). Chardin believed his Omega entity was basically Jesus Christ himself. His phrase, "everything that rises must converge," is a poetical expression of a key Christian idea known in the Greek apokatastasis. It's like the opposite of apocalypse, or rather, what comes after apocalypse. Apokatastasis is the idea that in the end, Satan will be defeated and that all of creation will be redeemed and unified under Christ.

7. Jacob in the 815ers' flashbacks: If you think Jacob is good, you can see these events as him being there when these people were at pivotal moments in their lives. An argument can be made for Jacob being the evil one, but since I don't believe that I'll spare you those details. I think Jacob did what he could, intervening in their lives, to ensure that eventually they would get on that original 815 flight, knowing that they would prove him right... mankind can redeem and use free will to do the right thing.

Kate: He paid her debt, telling her not to steal again.
Sayid: Jacob saved Sayid from getting struck by the car along with Nadia. Perhaps Jacob knew that Nadia had to die to help direct Sayid down his "killer" life path, working for Ben.
Locke: He walked over to Locke's body, after the fall, and touched him on the shoulder - and suddenly, Locke was very much alive. Offering an apology: "Don't worry. Everything is going to be all right. I'm sorry this happened to you."
Sawyer: Jacob offered Sawyer a pen so that Sawyer could write that infamous letter to the real Sawyer (aka Anthony Cooper).

8. Miles: When Dr. Chang's arm was injured I was so excited! The prosthetic arm explained... 4 years later!
Miles suggested that Jack's suicide-bomber act would actually produce the very ''incident'' they were trying to subvert - that they would be fulfilling history, not re-making it. At the same time, Faraday was correct with his ''human variable'' theory. There was a free radical among the time travelers, and her exercise of free will in last night's episode made all the difference: Juliet ''I changed my mind'' Burke. As a result of her Jughead-blowing anarchy, history has been rebooted. The Swan will never be built; Oceanic 815 will never crash. But the shape and form of the new time line will be determined by now-former castaways, thanks to the two gifts given to them by Jacob in the finale: a second chance at life - and the freedom to create their own destiny. Whatever that means.

You could argue that the nuke itself was always part of the original incident. Maybe this is why so much cement is poured on top of the Swan site. Maybe this is why the area gets quarantined, and everyone stationed there gets yellow suits. Maybe this is why Desmond needs to inject himself with serum every time he wakes up. All decent arguments. We'll have to wait to find out what happened when Jughead went off.

9. Seasons mirroring back on themselves: Remember how I sent out the theory that the seasons are mirroring back on themselves. 'Here's more on that from Doc Jenson...

'The Incident'' confirmed for me one of the few correct theories I've come up with this year: That season 5 was a mirror to season 2, they've been setting up a sixth season that will resemble season 1, thus completing the moebius strip narrative of Lost. ''The Incident'' certainly resembled season 2's finale, the title of which, ''Live Together, Die Alone,'' was name-checked by Juliet last night. There was a story line involving castaway treachery (Michael = Fake Locke). Both episodes shared the Four Toed Statue as a plot point, although ''The Incident'' gave us a better look at what it once looked like back in the day. Both episodes culminated with the destruction of the Hatch, perpetrated in each case by lovelorn characters hoping their sacrifice would somehow, someway save the lives of their friends. And finally, both episodes were about activating ''quibbles''. As in: A plot device, common to fantasy/science fiction, that allows a character to cheat the literal obligations of a promise, contract, or prophecy. Also see: loophole. Desmond had the failsafe.

I think Jacob's failsafe is the 815ers... using Jughead, using free will, redeeming themselves. After all, he has faith in humanity whereas Anti-Jacob does not.

Mugen910

05-20-2009, 09:49 AM

Subject: LOST 5, ep. 16 "The Incident" part 3
Part 3 of 3

1. Jacob's death: I think Jacob knew/ planned on dying all along. This is why he helped the 815ers find their way in life so that eventually they would be on that 815 flight, experience everything they have experienced on the island, time-travel, the Oceanic 6 left - then came back, Locke turned the wheel, died, the Ajira 316 flight... I think Jacob knew about all of it and that it would culminate in his death. I also think that he allowed Ben to stab him for a greater purpose (think Obi Wan in Star Wars who allowed Darth Vader to strike him down).
That was the significance of Fake Locke/ Anti-Jacob's gloating line: "And you have no idea what I've gone through to be here." But what he didn't know was that Jacob had been doing some plotting of his own to counter all of his enemy's moves.

2. Jacob's cabin: Though nobody ever came right out and said it, I think we were suppose to infer from the episode that the entity that we thought was Jacob in Jacob's cabin was actually not Jacob at all. We have speculated that the cabin, with its circle of ash, is a kind of prison for the being inside it. But during Jacob's visit with Hurley, he specifically said he had never been in jail. There was also Ben's confession that he was just pretending to communicate with Jacob. In truth, he had never seen him. So, was it actually Anti-Jacob in the cabin all along? And as part of his loophole conspiracy, he duped both Locke and Ben into thinking it was Jacob inside.

3. Anti-Jacob/ Fake Locke knows he's defeated when Jacob mutters "They're coming." I don't think Jacob was referring to Ilana and Bram's group. I think he meant Jack and the 815ers. I think Fake Locke/ Anti-Jacob completely understood the significance of what Jacob was saying - and it pissed him off. which is why he angrily kicked Jacob into the fire.

4. Ben: What about me?" When Jacob redirected the question back to Ben - "What about you?" it catalyzed Ben's anger. Again, I think Jacob knew that he had to die so he goaded Ben into it. Fake Locke/ Anti-Jacob has been setting Ben up for this the whole time they've been on the island together in 2007.

5. Hurley: never corrupted by the money, nothing to repent for... he's untouchable and Anti-Jacob's worst nightmare! And what is in that guitar case???

6. Another note about Anti-Jacob as Smokey: This fits well with all the judging we've seen Smokie do throughout the show. He abhors Jacob constantly bringing in all these tainted outsiders to violate the sanctity of his island. He killed Eko for refusing to repent. He destroyed flight 815's pilot before he could radio for help... to keep other slimy corrupt humans from finding the island.

7. At the end of the show, the colors of the final LOST logo were reversed: black on white intead of white on black. LOST.

dunng

05-20-2009, 09:52 AM

:wo

ActionAndy

05-20-2009, 10:02 AM

I thought the guitar case was Charlie's guitar, I didn't even consider reading more into it. Hopefully it's something awesome like a tommy gun.

JE3146

05-20-2009, 11:30 AM

Greatest show in history.... Period ... I am so looking forward to a box set riddled with extras lol after the series ends.
Posted via Mobile Device

kugie

05-20-2009, 11:47 AM

Great stuff.

The next season had best be the best

Mugen910

05-27-2009, 10:27 AM

Subject: LOST: more items to ponder

1. Volcano: Previously (maybe season 3?), in a Ben-centric episode we see Ben as a child in Dharma school. The teacher was showing the kids how to mix chemicals for the model "volcano" in the classroom and mentions that the island has a volcano. The teacher says it hasn't been active in a long, long time. Apparently, in the bonus features on that season's DVDs the producers say the volcano will be something that comes back in the story.

2. Smokey's water prison: Perhaps Smokey can't touch water and that's why water blocks the drain that hold him in? Maybe that's why he's on an island and cannot reach people off-island?
3. Infertility on the island: Did the island create the infertility problems because Ben stole Alex from her mother? Or after Ellie Hawking shot and killed her own son, Faraday? Is this some sort of punishment?

4. LOST baby apparel: http://www.cafepress.com/squirtshirts/2084779 I like the one that reads "I think I found the Black Rock in my diaper: :)

5. Regarding season 5's finale:
a) It's kinda sad to think that John Locke really did die in that hotel room at the hands of Ben Linus. Locke died as he lived... a pathetic, failure who was easily manipulated. The only time he was really successful was on the island after the crash of 815.

b) Why did Jacob touch everyone in the flashbacks? Was it to "mark" them so that when the bomb went off they would be brought to the present time on the island to help defeat Anti-Jacob/ Fake Locke? Or is it the Harry Potter Horcrux idea. Jacob was transferring a part of himself to each of the castaways. Now that he's been stabbed and thrown in the fire, he's going to summon the castaways to the present to collect his missing pieces to heal himself. Probably not, but I like the Harry Potter tie-in. :)

6. Wired Magazine: A producer/ writer of LOST was the guest editor of Wired magazine's most recent issue. He placed clues within the magazine to reveal something about the show. Someone solved the clues which spelled the sentence "The four toed statue is Tawaret". So, no more guessing there. It's Tawaret, not Sobek, after all.

7. The Dharma Initiative: If you look at the history of the island maybe the Dharma Initiative really has no significance. As Anti-Jacob said it's just another group that came to the island for selfish purposes (greed, war, corruption). Perhaps they were brought here, initiated by someone who had been banished from the island but knew how to get back (Alvar Hanso started the Hanso foundation which funds Dharma... Magnus Hanso's diary was purchased by Widmore, it was recovered from the Black Rock. I think it's a fair assumption to think that Magnus Hanso was on the Black Rock, discovered the island's powers, wrote about them in his diary, was somehow banished, then the story was passed down to his relative Alvar Hanso, who funded Dharma to find/ study the island.)

8. Jacob is bad theory: There is a theory out there that Jacob is actually the bad guy. Some supporting evidence:

a) Young Kate steals a lunch box. Jacob gets her out of it, preventing real punishment.
b) Young Sawyer is encouraged by Jacob to write his revenge note. Thus encouraging/ promoting Sawyer's life of crime.
c) Jacob holds Sayid back at the intersection, but allows Nadia to get hit by the car.
d) Jacob tricks Hurley to come back to the island, telling him what he wants to hear. That he is not cursed, that he is not crazy.
e) Anti-Jacob is actually the good guy, and the loophole is that he figured out how to kill the evil one.
f) Anti-Jacob, representing good or a God-like figure, uses Locke to lead his people to kill Jacob, subsequently setting them free. Ben even referred to as "Moses" at the end of the episode. In the Old Testament what did Moses do? Set his people free.
g) Remember when Karl was being brainwashed in Room 23? One of the statements was "God loves you as He loved Jacob". Why does it say "loved?" Is Jacob like a fallen angel???

For the record, I don't believe that Jacob is the bad guy, but wanted to pass this theory along.

9. Season 6 theory: Here is someone's theory on what season 6 will be like. I thought it was pretty good so wanted to share...

SUMMARY: In short, the bomb goes off in 1977, the Swan hatch is never completed. However, Flight 815 does not go to LA, but instead lands on the island as it was always intended to do. The theme for Season 6 will be why the Oceanic 6 were brought to the island, and the coming war.

DETAILS: So we know the island has a way of course correcting itself. We also saw in season one a strong hint that major characters were PLACED on the plane (e.g., Claire and Sawyer each given tickets, Kate placed on the plane against her will, Jack absolutely must take this exact flight back as it is the last one that will get his dad's body back to LA in time for the funeral).

In season 4 Lapidus tells us he was supposed to be flying flight 815. In season 5, we are shown flight 316 make a landing on a landing strip that was built on or before 2004/2005 (with Kate, Sawyer, and 4 Others chopping rocks to either finish the new runway, or simply maintain the existing runway).

Since season 2, I have advocated that Flight 815 was coming in for a landing to the island, but Desmond screwed things up by failing to enter the numbers, thereby causing the low-flying plane to break apart and crash.

Now to season 5 ending....Season 5 does in fact end with the bomb going off, leaving us thinking (as was planted in our heads in Episode 515 "Follow the Leader") that flight 815 will continue on to LA and land. HOWEVER, this assumes the pilot of 815 was planning to fly to LA. However, if the pilot was intending to land the plane on the island, then after the hydrogen bomb explodes in 1977, Desmond will in fact never fail to turn the key because the Swan Hatch was never finished, and Flight 815 will (course corrected) fly into the island for a landing as was planned all along.

And finally, Season Six begins with a plane coming in for a seamless landing and as the opening scene pans back from the inside of the plane where Jack and Kate and Sawyer, et al are riding, we see an island with a rough runway and Others (perhaps even Jacob) outside waiting to greet those selected to come to the island.

Side note: Some have said there is not enough time in one season to cover what seems to amount to a reset of the entire show. HOWEVER, in season 5 when Desmond goes looking for Faraday, the janitor protector at Oxford mentions that Faraday's experiment involved sending rats memories into the future through the radiation. If a hydrogen bomb goes off, this is exactly how this will be solved for the show continuity - It will not involve a reset, but the Oceanic 6 will carry their memories with them as Faraday's mice experiments proved could happen. We have already seen an example of how a historical change in time suddenly appears in the future of those impacted as sudden memories - When Faraday bangs on the Swan Hatch door and Desmond comes out, suddenly the next scene Desmond awakes in 2007 with a NEW memory - Not a dream but a memory. Thus the events in 1977 will suddenly be in the heads of the Oceanic 6 as memories.

kaisersozei

05-27-2009, 10:43 AM

Awesome job as always, Bao! The two things that struck me the most in your post:

8. Jacob is bad theory: There is a theory out there that Jacob is actually the bad guy. Some supporting evidence:

a) Young Kate steals a lunch box. Jacob gets her out of it, preventing real punishment.
b) Young Sawyer is encouraged by Jacob to write his revenge note. Thus encouraging/ promoting Sawyer's life of crime.
c) Jacob holds Sayid back at the intersection, but allows Nadia to get hit by the car.
d) Jacob tricks Hurley to come back to the island, telling him what he wants to hear. That he is not cursed, that he is not crazy.
e) Anti-Jacob is actually the good guy, and the loophole is that he figured out how to kill the evil one.
f) Anti-Jacob, representing good or a God-like figure, uses Locke to lead his people to kill Jacob, subsequently setting them free. Ben even referred to as "Moses" at the end of the episode. In the Old Testament what did Moses do? Set his people free.
g) Remember when Karl was being brainwashed in Room 23? One of the statements was "God loves you as He loved Jacob". Why does it say "loved?" Is Jacob like a fallen angel???

I actually do think that Jacob might be the "bad guy" in that duo. Haven't puzzled it all out yet, but it's nagging me.

Side note: Some have said there is not enough time in one season to cover what seems to amount to a reset of the entire show. HOWEVER, in season 5 when Desmond goes looking for Faraday, the janitor protector at Oxford mentions that Faraday's experiment involved sending rats memories into the future through the radiation. If a hydrogen bomb goes off, this is exactly how this will be solved for the show continuity - It will not involve a reset, but the Oceanic 6 will carry their memories with them as Faraday's mice experiments proved could happen. We have already seen an example of how a historical change in time suddenly appears in the future of those impacted as sudden memories - When Faraday bangs on the Swan Hatch door and Desmond comes out, suddenly the next scene Desmond awakes in 2007 with a NEW memory - Not a dream but a memory. Thus the events in 1977 will suddenly be in the heads of the Oceanic 6 as memories.

Excellent, I completely forgot about the janitor at Oxford. :tu If what he says is true, then it resolves a big question I had about how the Losties will view the past few seasons' worth of memories, or whether they will at all.

I still don't have a handle on Jack's rationale or desire for resetting time. He obviously wants a better life, maybe even the better life that he had for a while with Kate--does he think that he has a better shot at that if they all go back to their pre-crash state? He wouldn't know Kate at all, though--not without these memories from the island. He doesn't have Desmond's knowledge, so I can't figure that one out...

ActionAndy

05-27-2009, 10:47 AM

Awesome job as always, Bao! The two things that struck me the most in your post:

I actually do think that Jacob might be the "bad guy" in that duo. Haven't puzzled it all out yet, but it's nagging me.

Excellent, I completely forgot about the janitor at Oxford. :tu If what he says is true, then it resolves a big question I had about how the Losties will view the past few seasons' worth of memories, or whether they will at all.

I still don't have a handle on Jack's rationale or desire for resetting time. He obviously wants a better life, maybe even the better life that he had for a while with Kate--does he think that he has a better shot at that if they all go back to their pre-crash state? He wouldn't know Kate at all, though--not without these memories from the island. He doesn't have Desmond's knowledge, so I can't figure that one out...

Yeah at this point it really seems like they just needed someone to want to reset time...and Jack got hit when they threw a dart. The motivation never clicked with me either.

Mugen910

06-24-2009, 11:53 AM

Here is a chronological list of the Whispers heard on LOST so far.

There were a few other episodes where Whispers can be heard but they are not listed here as the audio was too difficult to translate. I underlined a few that I thought were extra creepy.

"Many of the audio geniuses agree that it appears that there are only one or two female voices in the whispers. It has also been noted that the female voices have empathy for the crash survivors. In Sayid's and Sawyer's jungle encounter with the whispers, the female voice seems to want the whisperers to reveal themselves.

An interesting note about the first time that Sawyer hears the whispers is that one of the voices is actually Frank Duckett (the man he killed) saying "It'll come back around," which is the last thing Duckett said to Sawyer after he is shot by Sawyer. Of course we also know that the Whispers usually come before or during peril. As noted below, the Whispers use the name Elizabeth over and over again in one instance. The name of Libby's husband's boat, that she gave to Desmond to sail was named "The Elizabeth." Another seldom used/known name that the Whispers spoke was "Sarah." Of course, Sarah was Jack's wife back on the mainland before they divorced. When Sarah's tire blew, she was in an accident that also involved Adam Rutherford. Adam was Shannon's dad and Boone's stepdad. When Sarah and Adam come into the ER, Jack has to make a decision whether to save Adam or Sarah. Of course he saves Sarah and Adam dies."

Season 1, ep. 16: "Outlaws" When Sawyer is looking for the boar who stole his hut roof.

"There goes another poking his head in here"
"Yeah, let's see what he's doing"
"Let's"
"Let me decide"
"Come back"
"Wait"
"I see another one"
"It'll come back around" (Frank Duckett's voice)
------
"Oh my god there's a guy out there"
"Dennis (?) find out what's going on"
"Did he see us?"
"Maybe"
"Open it"
"Did you see what direction he went?"
"Right through those trees"
"Go and get him"
'"There is an explanation (resolution?) and I bet you haven't thought of it"
"What is it?"
"He's been in a plane crash"
"Are you sure?"
"I know what it's like for a plane to crash"
"Complain, complain, complain"
"I want to get closer"
"I know what you said, but he's looking around"
"What if he shoots us or something"
------
"There may be something, but it may be....."
"Let's go"
"Has he seen us?"
(Alarms go off)
"I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry"
"Intruder, Intruder"
"Hide against the bushes"
"Open the door"
"I know what it's like for a plane to crash"
"Complain, complain, complain"
"I know what you said, but..."

Season 1, ep. 16: This is also from "Outlaws" when Sawyer is in the jungle. These are the left, center and right audio tracks that were played simultaneously.

"How could you say that? I knew he was American"
"It was a large group"
"It'll come back around"
"Now listen. Here's what we should do. Nothing. It's not the one. He's coming up on the gate."

"How could you say that, I knew he was American"
"Hey listen, come on let's go"
"Go and see what he's doing"
"Duetch/Dutch/Deutsch negg or Joice leg" (perhaps another language or reversed)
"Like it's your choice"
"He's coming up on the gate"
"My guess is to shoot the pig" or "Guess he'll shoot the pig"
"Yes"
"My [hand/head] is free"

"How could you even say that, I knew he was an American"
"Hey listen, come on lets go"
"Go and see what he's doing"
"He's coming up on the gate"
"My guess is to shoot the pig..."
"Okay"

"Maybe we should just talk to him"
"No if he see us it will ruin everything"
"What did he see"
"They could help us"
"Can't trust"
"Come back around"
"What did he see"
"Nothing, he was following it"
"Speak"
"Nothing"
Frank Duckett's Voice- "It'll come back around"

Season 2, ep. 6: This is where Sayid and Shannon are in the jungle in "Abandoned", just before Ana Lucia shoots Shannon, when Shannon sees wet-talking-backwards Walt.

"Relax dude"
"She likes the guy"
"She's coming"
"I don't know if I can run, but I can (or can't) yell"
"Shannon sighs"
(Scream)
"Dying sucks"
"Hurry up"
"Shh..."

"She likes this guy"
"Dying sucks"
"Hi sis"
"Here she comes, here she comes"
"His mouth"
"She drives me crazy"
"Hurry up"
"I see eye to eye"
"I see..."

"Relax dude"
"She likes the guy"
"What do you think we should do?"
"She's coming"
"We should hide, we should run"
"Heard some voice"
"See ya"
"Hide the scope"
"Hurry up"

Season 2, ep. 6: This is also from "Abandoned" but this is where Eko, Libby, Ana Lucia, Sawyer, Michael, Jin and Bernard are in the Jungle.

"Who's this in the woods"
"Sawyer"
"Ana"
"I'm in someone's dream"
"Ich weiß nicht" (German for 'I don't know')
"She's heavy"
"Black Rock"
"Bring the boy"
"I'm in someone's dream"

"Look in the eyes, right?"
"Do you see her?"
"It's the brothers that help us"
"I can see eye to eye"
"Sawyer"
"Did she see?"
"Bossy eh missy?"
"I'm in someone's dream"
"I know it all, I know it all"
"It's the eyes" or "Lucia"
"I can see eye to eye"
"I'm in someone's dream"

"I know it all, I know it all"
"Do you see her? (or possibly 'Lucia') "I can see eye to eye"
"Did she see?"
"Shannon"
"Hide behind me"
"Bossy eh missy?"
"I'm in someone's dream"
"I know it all"
"Under the eye" or "Eye to eye"
"It's the eyes" or "Lucia"
"I can see eye to eye"
"She's bossy"
"I'm in someone's dream"

Season 2, ep. 10: This comes from "The 23rd Psalms" and is when Eko faces Smokey:

"Who are you and why are you here?"
"Report, report!"
"Saw Charlie with him"
"There's Charlie"
"Go to hell"
"Steadily"
"He's trying here"
"Nothing yet"
"Now try him from here, okay"
"Those are the roles (or rules) you accept"
"Go to hell"
"Nine"
"Where"
"Seven"
"He's hiding something"
"He's hiding from me"

Season 2, ep. 21: ? This is one of the creepiest and is taken from Charlotte Malkin's autopsy, when she "woke up" after supposedly drowning. Remember that Eko was sent to investigate the miracle of her resurrection. This transcript is of the doctor's autopsy tape. The Whispers heard on the tape are in "quotes."

Doctor: This is a Caucasian female. She's 161 cm, 51.3 kilos, body prepped and washed by the very lovely Valerie McTavish
Assistant: Ian, stop it
Doctor: Commencing with the post
"That's her"
Doctor: This is a clear case of drowning. I'll begin with a thoracic...
Charlotte Malkin, coming back to life: John! (screaming)
"She's alive!"
"How will we know"
Assistant: Oh my God!
Doctor: Valerie!
Assistant: She's Alive!
Doctor: I think she's trying...
Charlotte Malkin: Let John Locke go (on)!
"She's not dead"
"I found it"
Doctor: Try and calm down
(Assistant screaming stop, stop)
Doctor: Valerie get... she's crying, don't just stand there do something!
"We're sending them in" (or) "Let's hear what she says"

Season 2, ep. 23, 24: "Live Together, Die Alone" and occurs just as the Losties are being ambushed by the Others: It is with Michael, Sawyer, Hurley, Jack and Kate: Jack, Kate, Michael, Hurley, and Sawyer are walking to the Others' camp to get Walt back. Jack understands that Michael has betrayed them again. They then hear the Whispers. They all look around and point their guns. Sawyer is then shot in the neck with an electric shocker. Jack then tells them to run and he and Kate run away.

"This is no good (or) Let's do something (or) We're near them"
"He's asking him something"
"Yeah but what happened"
"They saw a smoke signal"
"Elizabeth"
"Did (does) somebody see you (or) It looks like her but"
"You' re on her right"
"Behind you"
"I'll have to listen to the dreams (trees) to learn (find) something"
"He'll need to instruct you (or) Do we ambush"
"Why can't you (two) do it (or) Can't you see"
(Sawyer gets hit with dart)
"Got to have a team with you"
"Okay crank it up"
(Kate: Sawyer!)
"I knew that something bad would happen"
"I assume this is how you would do it"
"Don't tell anyone he wants it done (or) Don't want anyone to die"
"Lets assemble them (or) This is similar (or) What's this symbol of"
(Jack: Run! Go! Go!)
"It was her"
"So she was never taken. Said I was about to (or) Someone attacked them"
"Get your butt out of there"
"Try the sequence"
"Had to be given lessons"
"Turn it on beside you"
"Don't do it"
"Don't see"
(Gunshots)
"You're gonna have to do it"
"You are too"
'Why can't we choose (or) I can't reach it"
"Two more people (or) Too young people"
"I'm frightened"
"Please"
"Come on it's simple"
"Intruder alert"
"Do you think I should lock this"
"No, I've seen them before"
"Close the door"
"You all need me"

Season 2, ep 23, 24: "Live Together, Die Alone"

"Elizabeth"
"Elizabeth"
"Elizabeth"
"Him"
"Michael"
"Elizabeth"
"Stop!"
"Elizabeth"
"Michael"
"Gun"
"Elizabeth"
"Michael"

Season 3, ep. 1: "A Tale of Two Cities" Jack is using the intercom where he is being held prisoner in the Hydra Hatch:

"Has she tried to talk to him (or) shall we talk to him "
"Look on "
"Has he answered (or) His head is hurt"
"Don't (won't) talk "
"We're not sure if he knows that much (or) We're not sure if we'll find out much"
"That's what I was thinking"
"Let him go free"
"It's not easy keeping something that secret (sacred) "
"What are you gonna do (or) go on and do it "
"Let it go Jack" (Christian's voice?)
'Now I can tell what you're doing "
"Bring it back to her"

Season 3, ep. 5: The Cost of Living. These Whispers occur after Eko is thrown to the ground by Smokey:

"It's over"
"Right now/here"

"What happened"
"Shhhh"

"what's happening "
"Now we got his. I don't want to kill him "

"What just happened?"
(Eko: I will guide you. I'm going soon)

"What'd he say? "
"Help me up "
"is she following "
(Eko to Locke: They're coming next for you!) Dies.

Season 3, ep. 20: "Man Behind the Curtain" This occurs as Little Ben is at the sonic fence: when he sees his dead mother:

Man: "Look at me"
Ben's mother: "Look at me. It's all right, it's okay, I'm here. Look at me."
Man: "Ben, You're my prisoner and- (inaudible, but most likely: "and we are ready" or "and you are mine".)
Man: demonic laugh.
(Ben: I'm scared mom)
Mom: "It's all right, don't worry, patience Ben."

"Talk to him"

"Tell him that you're his mother"

"Tell him to be patient"

"That will just make it worse"

{Ben: Mom?}
Mom Vision: "Ben Don't!"
{Ben: Mom...}
Mom Vision: "It's not time yet, Benjamin."
"What's happening"

"If we can go over there we might be able to see it, but I don't know"

"Help us come through the fence"

"We're sending one, don't argue"

"I'm glad you decided to see me/to send me"

"Because I love him"

"That's right, that's what I mean/That's right that's what I need"

"Don't worry about it"

"Your'e the one...."

Season 4, ep. 1: The Beginning of the End" near the cabin. Hurley hears them:

"Come to me, I need you. You're an alchemist and uh..."
"I need-"
(Sounds like Christian Shephard): "Sarah, Is somebody coming?"
"They must be coming, you-"
"Hush! One of these-"
"Richard!"
"Come with us."
"Here's the recipe."
"Oh thank you, I thought I'd lost-"

Season 4, ep.1 : "The Beginning of the End" where Hurley is at the cabin:

"You have to believe it's me, Nikki"
"Shush"
"Did anyone say something?"
"I said nothing"
"You better not say a friggin thing or talk about Desmond"
"It's Me"
"I'm not going to listen to them"
"It's January 7th"
"I see somebody"
"Do you recognize him?"

Season 4, ep. 6: This is from "The Other Woman"

Right before Juliet runs into Harper in the jungle:

"Sarah is having another..."
"Is that the other woman?"

"Look out"
"Sarah is having another..."
"Did you hear that?"
"If she won't save us then who is?"
"Sarah, somebody's coming"
"There is somebody coming"
"Hold on one second"
"There is somebody coming"

This is where Juliet runs into Harper (Goodwin's wife) in the jungle.

"He can die"
"You never Know"
"This is Lipidis?"
"I told you" "There is no way to stop them"
"I Know"

After Jack runs into Juliet and Harper:

"Look out"
"Sarah, it's someone we know. Sarah, it's someone we know"
"I'm not answering"
"Answer them"
"We have our answer"
"Can we trust her?"

Finally, a very faint whisper can be heard right before Juliet uses the pulley door contraption at the Tempest Station.

"It's Juliet"

ucla695

06-24-2009, 08:26 PM

Summer TV is killing me....I can't for real programming again. :bh

Mugen910

08-04-2009, 07:01 AM

Lots of hints and such regarding season 6. These are not necessarily spoilers, but hints and things to look forward to. However, if you don't want to know stop reading now.

Comic Con is a conference that showcases sci fi, comics, fantasy-genre games, tv, movies, and books. The LOST producers were there to answer questions and show some videos.

Points of interest:

1. Season six of will be reminiscent of season one in that there will be a lot of running through the jungle and emotional development for the characters.
2. Faraday WILL appear in season 6.
3. They also mention that Season 6 won't have time travel or flash forwards, but "something different."
4. The marketing graphic for season 6 included all our favorite characters (even some dead ones!) but the important thing is that the last character added to the animation was Locke, and he was very obviously facing backwards, while all the other characters were facing forward. Creepy! (see attached poster)
5. They confirm that Richard Alpert will be finally getting his flashback in the final season. And Richard himself, actor Nestor Carbonell, is there on video, looking at himself in the mirror backstage. "Richard Alpert isn't ageless. YOU are," he says to himself. He then throws a fit over being handed the wrong eyeliner. So funny!
6. Juliet will appear, in some fashion, in season 6 and her survival is contingent upon Jack's plan working (bomb exploding).
7. The mystery of the food pallet drops will be uncovered in season 6.
8. The show's producers say that Jacob always looks like Jacob. By this, they mean that we won't learn later that people that have come in and out of the lives of our characters was in fact Jacob in disguise.
9. According to Josh Holloway in the press room, Sawyer will be destroyed by the tragedy of Juliet, pushing him back towards his original, more "salty" character. He'll still carry around season five's character growth, but he'll be rejecting it.
10. We learn that Libby's last name was Smith (Elizabeth Smith).
11. Three videos are shown:
1. An Oceanic Airlines video which says that the airline has had a perfect safety record since 1979.
2. A Mr. Cluck's Chicken commercial where Hurley is announced as the owner and CEO and says that ever since he won the lottery he's had nothing but good luck.
3. An "America's Most Wanted" clip that shows Kate as a fugitive who meant to kill her stepfather but accidentally killed the wrong man.
4. All three hinted that Season 6 will see some form of alternate time line. It doesn't literally mean that these things happen in the future, but the show now wants us to start thinking about the fact that Jack, with a major assist from Juliet, actually pulled off his plan.
12. Jorge Garcia (Hurley) is in the audience and notes that the videos just shown heavily hint that the previous five seasons will be wiped away if Jack was successful. He calls such a move a "cheat." The producers ask that he trust them, to which Jorge delivers the line: "Last time I trusted you guys, you said Nikki and Paulo were going to be awesome."
13. Lastly, Dominic Monaghan (Charlie Pace) crashes the stage. Onlookers noted the words, "Am I alive?" written on his hand as he waves to the audience.

Only 5 months to go. :)