The Official Asylum Reef Tank Thread

[shilala]

I hate having this albatross
around my neck, especially as I get close to wanting sdesparately to move out of this town.
But I look at the various items still with me and think, "ehh, they're worth it."
I think I mentioned I was bagging this whole fish tank lifestyle from hell when I got married. I was moving from PA to OH and that was my chance.
Lisa absolutely insisted I keep it going. She thought I was quitting cause she didn't want it, so she insisted I keep it going cause I loved it. Problem is, I didn't find that out till later. I moved it all and went through great lengths cause I thought SHE wanted it.
So now the 700 pound dirty pig is five feet behind me making noises, waiting for it's chance to wreck the house, vibrating up a storm, wanting fed, and waiting for me to dump another $170 bucks into it.
Ahhh, the riddle that is love. :D

[OLS]

If I could see a large pile of money needing to be spent, you can bet I would get rid of it all. I think if I had to move
out of town, they'd be S.O.L. But for now, my purple mushrooms multiply about one every three months, and
things are not so bad that I think everyday about breaking it down. I will say that if I ever have a PERMANENT
home that I paid for and now own, I would knock out a wall and have all the plumbing and access far out of
sight and just a window and no vibrations or waterfall sounds ar anything around ME. And small! I first started
out in the 20 I have now, killed everything cause I added stuff early, then went to 110 cause "I was smart now", lol.
Dumped all that 8-9 years ago or more, and like I have said, for some reason a year and a half ago, thought I
should turn some dry white rock and a obsolete skimmer into a base for buying all new everything else....sheesh.
Oh the money I would have.

[shilala]

This money hole is only 90 gallons. Can you imagine what the 240 gallon guys spend? Worse yet, can you imagine the time? The mere thought makes me shiver.

[OLS]

I think when I finally get my dream home, for which I will sign the papers, come home, cough up a speck of
blood and find out I have lung cancer, I will make it between 40 and 55 gallons. Against all the arguments over
how more water makes mistakes happen sloower, etc, all fine arguments, there is also the one that says 'you
don't HAVE to have it all", you just have to be satisfied with what you can afford, and afford to maintain,
both time AND money-wise.

[BC-Axeman]

There is a 500 gal tank at my LFS that someone gave up on. I could probably get a good deal on it. The owner showed it to me and my first thought was you needed SCUBA to clean it.
I go months without doing anything but feed my tank and add makeup water to it, only cleaning it because of company. If it is likely something will die then it did already.

[shilala]

I picked up a few more corals down in Mogadore the other day. Finally got some yellow polyps. I forget what the other two things are called. :D
We got a shrimp and a spiny urchin, too.

[BC-Axeman]

I spent money on more cigars.

[shilala]

Lance, I've got so many freakin cigars that I can't even find them all. I did buy five or six boxes of "save for later" stuff last week, though. ;)

Now I'm really strongly considering LED lighting for the tank (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=22443).
Will you guys please take a look at this for me, and see what you think?
Here's where I am so far...
I'm trying to figure out how to get from watts/gallon to lumens/gallon to size my fixture. I already plan on getting the biggest one at that Foster Smith link cause I think it'll fit my tank.
The reef capable lighting are rated for 50,000 hours, which is 17 years of 8 hour days. Right now I run a little over 8 hours, but I need to back that up.
The fixture is $365, you never replace bulbs. In 17 years, I'd spend somewhere between $1600 and $3200 for t5 lamps. I'd also have to replace the fixture at least twice, and that'd cost about $1,000.
So it's t5's for $2600-$4200 or led for under $800. (Apparantly I need two fixtures because these things really focus the lights into a very thin, straight down wall of light.)
With two fixtures, I'd be down to 108 watts from my current 432 watts, so I'm looking at 1/4 the energy use and I'm guessing 1/4 the heat.

Being that I was already going to spill $200 for tubes, I'm really looking at $530.00 to make this upgrade. I'm sure I can sell my 48" t5's on Craigslist or to one of the reefers in my club, bringing down the price even more.

The one drawback is that there's a polycarbonate lens on this thing that creates a "realistic ocean shimmer effect" that is only realistic to people who have never been in the water. It's more like a strobe light cranked all the way up to max, almost constant on, or at least that's how I perceive it when I look at them.
I'm hoping that's more prominent with one light than with two.

Will you guys please take a look when you have time and let me know what you think? I could use a bunch more negatives so I can weigh this out a bit better.

[BC-Axeman]

Lumens per watt, LEDs are the same as T5. LEDs randomly go bad for no apparent reason. They actually do generate a good deal of heat. 100 watts of LED is the same lumens as 100 watts of T5s. This is what keeps me from upgrading. HIDs are the most lumens per watt and I get about two years for about 100 bucks. I have 2 80 watt CFs that run pure actinics for color affects with two 14k HIDs. $150 every two years. Yep, 960 watts. Along with the main pump, skimmer pump, two little pumps for the calcium reactor and a circulating pump in the tank, a chiller and two 230 watt heaters, I need my own substation to run this rig.
Happy reefing!

[shilala]

Lance, From what I ciphered (before I went insane from reading light buld tech specs) is that led's give up 166% more lumens per watt at minimum. The biggie is that the lumenosity is focused and drills way deeper into the water.
That said, I could find nowhere where an outfit would say "just use led's on your tank". The best outfits say you should use them to compliment your other lighting for technical reasons as an advantage.
They just aren't ready for primetime yet, period.

If you're trying to use a watts per gallon comparison, led's require 14-28% of wattage for the same amount of useful light.

Here's an awesome writeup on all types of aquarium lighting (http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html). The reading is about as dry as a popcorn fart, but there's lots of great info if you can stand to read it. It's recent, and was just updated 4 days ago.

All that said, the two fixtures I picked should be a good direct replacement for my t5's. I'm not gonna chance it, though. I'll just get some new lamps and keep this fixture for another four years if it'll last that long. By then, price should come down and all the bugs should be worked out. :tu

[BC-Axeman]

I just checked specs on a few different technical sites and was seeing lm/W for HIDs in the low 100s, for T5s & T2s in the upper 90s, Some LEDs are in the mid 100s but these are the wrong color temp, like 4500K or lower. The CREE type seem to be the most efficient. They are nice in flashlights.

That picture of the plant growth on your link proved the plants weren't getting enough light. Everyone knows plants will stretch out if there is not enough light. Or, if they are low light plants, the small ones were getting too much light. An inclusion like this in an article makes me begin to doubt some of the rest of it.

I know I have too much light, plus I have direct sunlight, but I got most of my stuff free, for starters. Since then it has not been so free. I run 2 1/2 hrs. in the morning and 4 1/2 hrs. in the evening to stretch the day out all year long.

I am a little tired off maintaining things. Too much of my time is being drained by routines. Anyone want a good deal on a reef tank?

[OLS]

Now I'm really strongly considering LED lighting for the tank
I have not done much if any reading since they came out, right around the time I bought my T5
hood. I was simply buying closeout for price. So there was no way on the LEDs. However, like
anything there are kinks to work out, and those first fixtures were WROUGHT with problems. In fact
I think that many of the problems are still there. Random LED failures, entire strip failures, and
NOWHERE near the durational performance they were sold at. "It's the last light fixture you'll
EVER BUY!"...."All the light with none of the heat!"...."LEDs Don't burn out like light bulbs!"
None of which turned out to be true. I say stay with what you have, ESPECIALLY since
you got drug into starting this back up at great cost to yourself. Let the newness of your rig
wear off, have a few disasters again, and then think, "Hmm, good thing I didn't spend $800 on LEDs.

I have a "night lite" led on my fixture, and i can tell you it IS like a semi-strobe effect, but it DOES
produce shimmer in a way. I guess if you are going to extrapolate out to 17 years, it's a good buy,
but as with any reef tank, I predict disaster, the LAST disaster, way before then, lol.

[SteveH]

Hey guys - Figured I've been around here long enough to warrant an intro.....

This is my first forray into SW, although I've had FW for many years. The tank has been up for about 8mo...Yes I know still no fish - but between a crazy work schedule and traveling, I just haven't gotten a chance to sit down and figure out the load list. Right now there's assorted zoas and star polyps, pulsing xenia, and some interesting non-photosynthetic hitch-hikers. I also have one pincushion, two golden coral banded shrimp (mated pair), and the usual assortment CUC. Also on the way I have a decorator crab - figured it would do a better job of fragging than I do =)
I also just got a mini-carpet last night - seems to be doing real well in the tank already...

Anyway, as it does not exist without pics - here's a couple:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TdF4FTSSrVI/AAAAAAAAG-o/bevTi6ChxhA/s640/IMG_00163.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TdF4HnVURYI/AAAAAAAAG-w/jdfhfikzCGk/s640/IMG_00165.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TdF4GQhRjEI/AAAAAAAAG-s/K5i7ODBbbXY/s640/IMG_00164.jpg

[shilala]

Lookin good, Steve!!! :tu
I thought those goofy decorator crabs were a big no-no?

[SteveH]

Not that I was aware of ? Granted.....If you have softies that you like where they are; then the decorator isn't for you.....However its my understanding that they don't feed on the corals; only use them for decoration.
I'll keep an eye on him. Worse comes to worse my sump is large enough to keep him in...Im sure he'll enjoy all the oddities down there.

[shilala]

Not that I was aware of ? Granted.....If you have softies that you like where they are; then the decorator isn't for you.....However its my understanding that they don't feed on the corals; only use them for decoration.
I'll keep an eye on him. Worse comes to worse my sump is large enough to keep him in...Im sure he'll enjoy all the oddities down there.
I looked into them cause I thought they were cool. They'll tear off a chunk of anything to stick on themselves, and just keep at it constantly. I guess they can dessimate a small reef. Bummed me out cause I wanted one, too. :D
Will you please let us know how it goes?

I just remembered where I read about them. I have a book called "The top 101 marine invertebrates" (I just ran up and got it). It adds 33 species you should definately avoid. Decorator crabs were the #12 worst. They not only decorate themselves with all your stuff, but they are also predatory on other inverts.
There's a real good chance he'll eat your mated shrimp real quick, so be super careful, my brother.
Maybe throw him in the sump right from the get-go and give him some stuff he can decorate with?
I'm glad I dragged the book out. We just carried home a longspined sea urchin the other day. It's not only venemous, but the 33rd worst critter to keep in a reef. How are we doin, my friend? :D :r

[SteveH]

Wow - thanks for the heads up ! Ya, I'll put him in the sump for sure....Im not that worried about the corals as the shrimp. Interesting; as my source where I got him I really find that they are on the money. Here's what they told me:

"A slow moving and somewhat sloth like creature, the Decorator Crab is one of those critters that makes this hobby enjoyable. By attaching sponges, algae and even soft corals to their carapace, they are able to "disappear" in plain sight. They are omnivores, and will scavenge and pick at live rock. They eat some algae, but we wouldn't consider them a cleaner. They are often too slow to catch food during feeding time, but they generally are very good at scavenging. When frightened or stressed, they will remain motionless, relying on their camouflage to protect them. If you have a lot of expensive zoas, maybe this isn't the guy for you. If you don't mind a small mobile frag, then this guy is reef safe enough. Grows to have a 1'' wide or so carapace" (reefcleaners.org)

From other research I've done, it seems that this guy (Pelia sp.) is one of the safer ones. The Spider Decorator (Stenorhynchus sp) from what I've read are more destructive.

The reason I picked him up was due to my fondness of them when I see them in the wild. They are quite amusing ! Here's one I photographed off the coast of Parguera, PR.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TFdycQlxziI/AAAAAAAAFZg/E6v7sCrkuzA/s640/IMG_0886.JPG

Living a couple of mangroves down, I found this pair of Coral Banded Shrimp, which although they aren't considered cleaners - took a fondness to running all over the camera and my hands.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TSnZ7gK3VQI/AAAAAAAAGAc/DChiYVoxRGs/s640/IMG_1214.JPG

[shilala]

It's been a few years since I've been in the water, Steve. Take that back, I was snorkeling the mangroves in the Keys last winter, but there were record lows and I mostly just got to check out dead stuff. Thousands upon thousands of urchins, and every other thing you can think of.
Keep sharing the pics, will ya? If I can find mine (just built a new computer), I'll try to post some up. :tu

[SteveH]

Hehe - sure. Don't want to hijack the thread w/diving pics....but here's just a couple more:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TFdyKpu61aI/AAAAAAAAFXQ/f5napmS-bX0/s640/IMG_0829.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TFdyOx7H0UI/AAAAAAAAFX0/XsfDrx8HtW8/s640/IMG_0844.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TSnXVOa3gLI/AAAAAAAAF-E/ojcqMY1xcLQ/s640/IMG_1130.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TSnZuIDldlI/AAAAAAAAGAA/lk3-GdQRVt8/s640/IMG_1202.JPG

Hehe - look close.....I watched that guy for about 10mins as he was watching me. I was hoping to catch him eating; but I think he was just resting after his meal.

[shilala]

Nice blue polyps. :tu

[shilala]

Well, I decided not to go LED.
I ordered lamps and food. Another 300 bucks down the chute. I think I could switch to a hard core heroin hobby and be money ahead. :r
I have to admit, now that the problems have subsided, I'm enjoying this reef more and more every day. I'm afraid that my beautiful wife may once again be right. I'm starting to get glad we set it back up. :D

I think I mentioned picking up a few more corals the other day. Yellow polyps were one, and I think the grassy mat is a pipe organ coral. The beige thing with blue eyeballs that comes right out of rock is called a gonapora? No idea how to spell it.

Now if I can get some different red and blue polyps to grow some mats, I'd be thrilled. A couple more starfish, and some pulsing xenia would round it out and I think my livestock acquisition phase will be over. Key word, think. :D

[BC-Axeman]

Got my new lights in.
http://fracstar.com/pics/tank20110516.jpg

[OLS]

I think goniapora is a coral too far. Many super-serious reefers can't keep them alive. Their diet leads to
fouled water I THINK is the knock. Many are sold, few survive. But don't take my word for it, nevr had one.
I WOULD SAY though that if you are going to get one, let me send you a frag of this purple gorgonian.
That Goniapora is going to want to eat, and it can be bad for your tank in some ways. If you have a good
overflow system, most of the food is going to go into the sump/skimmer. You need something with a LOT of
polyps to capture the food that the gonio can't eat. Like a lot of palythoa or other sea mat type organisms.
The Goniopora will want enough cyclopeze to survive, and it can foul a tank up if it's the only coral feeding
in that manner. I guess you could turn the pumps off and target feed. I have so many polyps with tentacles
in my little 20 gallon, the cyclopeze disappears in minutes.

[BC-Axeman]

I kept a Goniapora alive for two years. It is generally believed to be not a responsible thing to buy a Goni. They seldom survive for long and it would be best to leave them in the wild.
Pavona are nice. You need to keep your calcium up is all.

[SteveH]

Wow - hell of a tank...Makes mine look like a sump :D

Shilala - What LED's did you go with ? Also my pulsing xenia are splitting again - want a piece ?
Speaking of which, those corals are something else. When I first got mine, it was a single stalk and looked healthy....This was the first coral I realized that could move ! It positioned itself about 10" from where I placed it, and split along the way. Now the 'parent' stalk is splitting in 3, and the 'child' is splitting in 1/2.

[BC-Axeman]

If you look at my picture you will see that the left wall of the tank is totally covered with Xenia. I allow it to grow there but I cull it from most other places or it gets out of control.
I have noticed that the live rock disappears over time. I think I could use another 10-15 lbs. It dissolves and is also ground up by critters.

[shilala]

I think goniapora is a coral too far. Many super-serious reefers can't keep them alive. Their diet leads to
fouled water I THINK is the knock. Many are sold, few survive. But don't take my word for it, nevr had one.
I WOULD SAY though that if you are going to get one, let me send you a frag of this purple gorgonian.
That Goniapora is going to want to eat, and it can be bad for your tank in some ways. If you have a good
overflow system, most of the food is going to go into the sump/skimmer. You need something with a LOT of
polyps to capture the food that the gonio can't eat. Like a lot of palythoa or other sea mat type organisms.
The Goniopora will want enough cyclopeze to survive, and it can foul a tank up if it's the only coral feeding
in that manner. I guess you could turn the pumps off and target feed. I have so many polyps with tentacles
in my little 20 gallon, the cyclopeze disappears in minutes.
Brad, I have purple gorgonia and all kinds of meat eaters. I target feed and change tons of water. I just changed 30 gallons the other day.
I'll take a video so you can see my stock and send it up to youtube. I did that just a bit ago, but we have more stuff now.
I've changed 90 gallons of water in a very short time cause of the hair algae. I got rid of every bit of it (queue the parade).
Thank You very much for the offer, and if I already didn't have some, I'd have taken you up in a second. :D
I should also say I was gonna move my gorgonia but it's already grown fast to the rock I dropped it in. It's a crazy fast grower.
Oh, I ordered freeze-dried cyclopeeze yesterday. I feed phyto regularly. When the frozen cyclopeeze becomes available, I'll order some of that. I spent $100 on just food yesterday. lol

I'll post pics of what I think is goniapora. You guys can tell me then, k?

[shilala]

Goniapora?

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/0e8f4e21.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/15937309.jpg

[shilala]

I kept a Goniapora alive for two years. It is generally believed to be not a responsible thing to buy a Goni. They seldom survive for long and it would be best to leave them in the wild.
Pavona are nice. You need to keep your calcium up is all.
Ooops. :D
No problem with the calcium, I'm a water changing madman. :tu

[shilala]

Wow - hell of a tank...Makes mine look like a sump :D

Shilala - What LED's did you go with ? Also my pulsing xenia are splitting again - want a piece ?
Speaking of which, those corals are something else. When I first got mine, it was a single stalk and looked healthy....This was the first coral I realized that could move ! It positioned itself about 10" from where I placed it, and split along the way. Now the 'parent' stalk is splitting in 3, and the 'child' is splitting in 1/2.

I decided against the LED's for now, Steve. I ordered a bunch of lamps. I should have at least 3 years worth of tubes now. When they're done, I'll rethink the LED thing.

I should have posted the end-all-be-all lighting tech sheet I found. It's awesome. Way more than I ever wanted to know, super concise, and a good read.
Here it is. (http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html#comparison) Do yourselves a favor and torture yourselves with it a bit. It's good material.

Steve, I'd love to take you up on the Xenia. Let them get well established first, I don't want to cause you to do them in. I'm going to a ball game in Pittsburgh Friday and we'll stop at the super-awesome LFS on the way home. I'm sure they have to have some stuff I need/want. I've been dying to get down there for weeks. Let me see what they have before I bother you, okay? Thank You for the offer!!! :D

[shilala]

I made a video in hopes that you guys can help me figure out what this stuff is I have in my tank, and to see if that gonorrhea is really gonorrhea.
It'll be done uploading in about an hour. It's only 4 1/2 minutes long, but it's super duper HQ, so you guys should easy be able to figure out what this stuff is if you're willing to help me out. Please? :)

[kgoings]

Cool stuff! I have always wanted a reef tank or SW tank, but just never took the plunge.

[SteveH]

Nice - send me a link to the video !

The decorator came today along with the rest of my additional CUC....Ugly bastid; no wonder why they cover themselves !

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/TdLWFdX_VxI/AAAAAAAAG_0/usqOpKfHaFI/s640/IMG_00171.jpg

[shilala]

New video so you guys can figure out what my stuff is. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNTnW0XyRMA)
I uploaded the video in hi-res, youtube made it far less resolute. I hope it'll still work. If not, I'll make a super quick video and upload it. That should help, it never crossed my mind till now.

[BC-Axeman]

Nice tank Scott. I got my book out but haven't figured out any you don't know. The Goni is definitely a Goni.

A note on the light issue:
The article made importance of the PAR and PUR values. Admittedly based on agricultural research. These values are tuned to chlorophyll. The zooxanthellae in coral don't use chlorophyll. Red wavelengths can't penetrate water to any significant depth, so these ranges are less important to reefkeeping. They are a large part of the PAR and PUR values though. I would want to read up on real life experience from various reefkeepers to correlate a better opinion on this. Also, it would be nice to see the spectrum sensitivity of zooxanthellae.

[shilala]

Nice tank Scott. I got my book out but haven't figured out any you don't know. The Goni is definitely a Goni.

A note on the light issue:
The article made importance of the PAR and PUR values. Admittedly based on agricultural research. These values are tuned to chlorophyll. The zooxanthellae in coral don't use chlorophyll. Red wavelengths can't penetrate water to any significant depth, so these ranges are less important to reefkeeping. They are a large part of the PAR and PUR values though. I would want to read up on real life experience from various reefkeepers to correlate a better opinion on this. Also, it would be nice to see the spectrum sensitivity of zooxanthellae.
I noticed in there that the whole yellow and green (?) spectrums were also missing from LED. More artificial flavor, ya know?
There is some insight there on where the problems lie and how they're working on getting them ironed out. Controllers and new tech are expected.
While it helped to make up my mind to stay away for now, at least I know they're headed in the right direction. I like crazy bright light on my corals so I can see and enjoy them. I want the light to keep them healthy.
All that other stuff, I don't care, ya know? That's my consumer perspective.
I love my t5's just like you love your mh's. I'm not gonna settle for less than what I already like. What I'd really like to see is light that's brighter to MY eye, and better for the corals. That's not at all where LED's are right now.

On a good note, all my frozen fish food came today. Good thing, too. I found out the freezer wasn't closed all the way.
Foster and smith sent that stuff overnight in a styrofoam box with 13 freezer packs. My shipping cost was zero, and I paid less for the food than I do at my LFS.
I love that place more and more every time I shop there.

Oh, I ordered a D-D Refractometer while I couldn't sleep last night, too. It's supposed to be the best and you calibrate with RO water. I'm excited to see how close to 1.026 I really am. :D

[shilala]

Lance, I should also say that I read TONS of real life experience at both of my reef forums and then a bunch of others I don't frequent.
What you'll see if guys that have LED's saying they work great, but they just keep softies and fish. Guys with LPS and SPS don't use them. Other guys use Stunner strips and stick on strips to add extra lighting to their current systems.
I really couldn't find anyone who used strictly LED's to do what I want to do. A couple did, stuck their necks out and said they did with great results, then got crucified by reefer asshole know-it-alls that insisted it couldn't happen even though they posted pics.
I'll tell ya, brother, It's tough out there. It sure ain't Cigar Asylum everywhere. The lack of respect and keyboard thuggery at the reef forums is pretty pathetic. I'd rather hang with you guys. It's fun learning with you all. :D

[BC-Axeman]

My tank is really loving the 14Ks as opposed to the old 10Ks I replaced. Things are changing color. Pinks, yellows and greens are coming out on things that were mostly brown. I think they are not needing as much symbiont in their tissue and are decreasing it. If it goes too far it will cause bleaching. I don't think that will happen, though. From what I have read it is pretty hard to use too much light on a reef tank.

I have a mixture if soft, LPS, SPS, fish, inverts and plants. What survives is what's in there. I just read that you should not mix types of corals. Good thing I hadn't read that before.:D

[SteveH]

The lack of respect and keyboard thuggery at the reef forums is pretty pathetic.
:tpd:

:r:r

[shilala]

I just read that you should not mix types of corals. Good thing I hadn't read that before.:D
It seems all of us are aren't very textbook. Amazing anything is alive at all, eh? :D

[Wolfgang]

I have never heard you shouldn't mix coral types...... Sure softies throw out a lot of chemicals if they get pissed off but all you do is fun some activated carbon and that will solve that issue. You shouldn't put anything close to LPS with long sweeper tentacles that come out to feed at night. A good 6" bubble around things like thatis a good idea. SPS for the most part will tolerate each other ive never had an issue with that. Zoanthids are a seamat and will fill in wherever they can assuming other corals dont zap them away. The only thing i would be wary of is anemones. They have a tendancy to move about the tank looking for their perfect home and if they contact a colony of any coral the nem will kill it.

[Wolfgang]

In your video the first ones are trumpets. The next one is a Pavona coral also known as lettuce or potato chip coral (thi has particularly long sweeper tentacles careful when placing other corals around this). That is a Maxima you are correct. They usually dont like being on the sand the best way to make them happy is to bury a flat piece of live rock in the sand so its just below the surface of the sand and put the clam on that. After a while the clam will attach itself to the rock. The "pipe organ coral" looks to me like ti may be galaxea coral but I cant say for sure unless I see it with the polyps retracted. The yellow anemone is infact an anemone all mushroom corals are. The ones you have are known as rhoactids. The "frogspawn" you showed may either be hammer coral or a torch coral. Frogspawn will have multiple nodes on each tentacle it looked to me like there were only nodes on the tips.

Your tank is looking great Scott! Keep up the good work.

[OLS]

I agree with Wolfie all around on nomenclature, and I also would add, that's one boss reef!. Mine is embarassing after that show. Some ideas since I saw it, if you feed all that stuff, just a blast in the water column of various stuff, it looks like everybody is gonna get fed, I would not worry about the excess food not getting trapped, looks like you have plenty of polyps open to pick up the tiny bits. As for the gorgonian, yours is a true "purple gorgonian", and even though generally that morphological variety seems to be non-photosynthetic, judging from the color of those polyps, it would seem to likely be photosynthetic. Not sure...but one thing is sure, yours and mine are miles different. Yours seems stiff, mine is uber-rubbery. It would seem that sometarget feeding with a baster would help some of your corals, I believe if you feed cyclopeeze when everything has polyp extension going on, you might do OK with your Goniapora. No one can tell, but your tank is much further advanced than I would have thought, from a recent move. THAT must have been a BEYOTCH! Just in terms of the mushroom rocks, that is a lot of stuff to MOVE UNDERWATER! Nice bowl you got there. My favorite coral right now, and I have very little true coral, but it's my lettuce/chip coral. ONE POLYP was alive, and now as I said earlier, it has fully encrusted over it's original skeleton. OHH, and don't be totally bummed if one day for some unknown reason, your yellow polyps start to slowly disappear one by one. Some specimens just grow and grow, some look healthy one day and a month later you have a bare rock. But I like em, too.

OH, and also as far as chemical warfare, I think the only time it gets really serious is between octocorals and cndarians, or however you spell the family anemones are in. They tend to fight from GREAT distances with chemicals. Most of the other trouble you get is sweeper tentacles beteen corals, and for most, you are talking about separation of a few inches. Anemones can kill from across the tank if they start getting chemically on ya. Or so I THINK I have read. Derh. I know very little about the kid of warfare that one would get concerned about in reefs.

[OLS]

I think your 4-16-11 video is also revelatory...That leather MIGHT be the one coral that is going to not
like having large anemones in with it. We'll see, but they do tend to pop out much more after a long adaptation.
If they get pi$$y they will just slough over and disappear for a few days, shed a yucky skin and come back out
when they please. Give em good flow and med light and in time, the worm will turn.

[BC-Axeman]

Gorgonians, star polyp, Xenia and leather are octocorals. It seems these are tough in that not much injures them except environmental factors. My Gorgo got shaded out by being overgrown by Xenia.
I've heard Zoanthids are the worst with the chemicals. I have never worried about it as I have a bag of charcoal in the sump.
Goniapora don't need sweepers, their whole polyps will reach out far with a very powerful sting. Nothing in my tank could withstand it. Hammer coral is very good at sweeping it's zone clear. I used mine to corral the Xenia until it died in a crash. Now I have put a frogspawn in to fight back against the Rhodactis. It seems to be working. The Rhodis work by slowly nudging other things away and then dividing themselves. They want to carpet the whole tank.
There is so much interaction in these tanks it's amazing. The subtle slow motion violence is pretty intense too.

[shilala]

In your video the first ones are trumpets. The next one is a Pavona coral also known as lettuce or potato chip coral (thi has particularly long sweeper tentacles careful when placing other corals around this). That is a Maxima you are correct. They usually dont like being on the sand the best way to make them happy is to bury a flat piece of live rock in the sand so its just below the surface of the sand and put the clam on that. After a while the clam will attach itself to the rock. The "pipe organ coral" looks to me like ti may be galaxea coral but I cant say for sure unless I see it with the polyps retracted. The yellow anemone is infact an anemone all mushroom corals are. The ones you have are known as rhoactids. The "frogspawn" you showed may either be hammer coral or a torch coral. Frogspawn will have multiple nodes on each tentacle it looked to me like there were only nodes on the tips.

Your tank is looking great Scott! Keep up the good work.
Thanks, Mark!!! :)
I asked Lisa, and she said that truly was a Galaxea. She remembers this stuff pretty good. The Maxima is hers, and you're right about attaching. When I was moving some stuff and gluing it the other day I tried to pick it up and it's attached itself to a big piece of junk it found. When it gets a bit bigger, I'll put a big rock under her so she can switch.
What was sold to me as frogspawn used to be tiny and really did look like frogspawn. Since I've fixed my water and started feeding phyto and all kinds of other stuff, it's gotten just as big as my hammer. The only differences in the two are slight color variations and the tips are slightly different. That gets more the same every day, really. I just checked it, and in fact, it does have little nodes and tiny branches off the big branches.
I think what looked like a yellow anemone is actually a carpet anemone, or was sold to me as such. It's cool. It's green with tight rows of brown things that look like tiny polyps. Looks way more like a coral than an anemone. I'll try to put up a decent pic of that one for ya so I can find out for sure.
There's also one other thing I'm not sure of, I don't know if it got in the video. I think it's a leather. It's insides are a beautiful blue. I'll get a pic of that, too.
Two pics coming up. :tu
Thanks a million, Mark!!! I just took a test looking at the tank and I know what everything is now. Ya done good, that's definately not a small feat you accomplished. :D

[shilala]

I think your 4-16-11 video is also revelatory...That leather MIGHT be the one coral that is going to not
like having large anemones in with it. We'll see, but they do tend to pop out much more after a long adaptation.
If they get pi$$y they will just slough over and disappear for a few days, shed a yucky skin and come back out
when they please. Give em good flow and med light and in time, the worm will turn.
Brad, that think that looks like a leather is not a leather. Its an SPS. I'm gonna post a pic in a second...

[shilala]

Some ideas since I saw it, if you feed all that stuff, just a blast in the water column of various stuff, it looks like everybody is gonna get fed, I would not worry about the excess food not getting trapped, looks like you have plenty of polyps open to pick up the tiny bits. ...It would seem that sometarget feeding with a baster would help some of your corals, I believe if you feed cyclopeeze when everything has polyp extension going on, you might do OK with your Goniapora.
Brad, I have two 36" long telescoping basters that I use to target feed.
I have no less than 10 different kinds of food here, 7 are frozen. Freeze dried cyclopeeze is in the mail. Plus I keep phyto in the fridge and will soon be growing my own. :tu
I make soup for the kids. I feed every other day. I use phyto plus four or five frozen blocks. I try to rotate the frozen stuff.
I have a cannister filter to trap junk, plus two over-the-backs that I clean every couple days. I also have two oversize over-the-back skimmers. I change water like a madman. I think I've changed 90 gallons this month, but that was just to unscrewup my water. I'll ease off soon.

The critters are exploding with wellness. I want them at their peak so I can watch them and let them tell me how the water is doing. Then I can rest easy.
I just needed everything to be right so I could learn from it, ya know?
I've kept animals all my life, more stuff than anyone would ever believe, let alone imagine. I've always let them tell me when things are right or wrong. It's always worked real well. What's awesome about corals is that they're very telling and very forgiving. Everyone says they're so fragile, etc. They're tough as nails, man. Amazingly resilient, too.
I'm having huge fun now that things are going well. It sure beats worrying all day every day. :D

My new lamps came today and I changed them out. Went from 10K to 12K by mistake. Actinics are the same. Everything looks more yellow/green to me, but Lisa says she doesn't notice a difference.

[shilala]

Wolfie, this is what I think is a carpet anemone that looked yellow...
(I see the colors are still a bit off. It's a dark green background and those rows are brown. I guess now that I got up and looked at them again, maybe the tips of what looks like polyps are yellow. They used to be brown. Everything is changing...)

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/4bb4570d.jpg

This is the thing that smacks of a leather, but it's an SPS. You should be able to see the polyps. The inside is hard blue/white coral. Any clue what it is?

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/6e48843b.jpg

[BC-Axeman]

Your yellow anemone looks like a Rhodactis, carpet anamones have regular tentacles, Rhodacis have lumpy, branched tntacles.
The encrusting coral is Montipora.
You're making me want to get a new clam.

[shilala]

Your yellow anemone looks like a Rhodactis, carpet anamones have regular tentacles, Rhodacis have lumpy, branched tntacles.
The encrusting coral is Montipora.
You're making me want to get a new clam.

Lance, the stuff in the upper background of the Rhodactis pic is dead coral. It used to be a great big piece of blue coral, which I believe to be exactly what the thing in the bottom pic is.
The guy that sold me the frag in the bottom pic busted up a great big pile of it, he had pics of what it looked like before he destroyed it.

I found a pic of the Rhodactis, and it looks exactly right. Rhodactis cf. Inchoata. It's growing INSANELY fast. It used to look just like the pic I'll post below, but it's a lot different now and much bigger. There's actually three pieces, but there's no way to tell anymore.
Here's what it looked like before it started getting huge...

http://directsealife.com/shop/images/Rhodactis%20cf.%20inchoata%20(brown%20green).jpg

[OLS]

That large skeleton in the upper back LOOKS like a potato chip coral, lettuce coral, whatever you like,
just the way the lobes are oriented....Pavona Species anyway. If we are talking about the same thing.
I need to watch the video again to see what it is that you say ?self-fragged? maybe?
Not sure what you were saying. I think Lance can tell you the dangers of Rhodactis. It's like the green
star polyps of the mushroom world, lol.

OK, I looked on the previous page and see now what you are talking about. If that is 'supposed' to be,
or as you put it, smacks of a leather coral, then I think you have a Porites species there. If it is blue, then
that is reaslly something. I wish I had that. They are also tough to keep alive, put em way up top once you
feel it is acclimated, turbid water and MAYBE target feed? They tend to be out much more at night when in
captivity, so if you can't get it eating in the daytime, you may have trouble keeping it alive. This is the
species of coral that you often see called "worm rock", "Christmas-tree worm rock" or "Bisma rock" It's one
of my personal favorites, if in fact that's what it is. Of course the bisma rock is a much different TYPE of porites.
And I only THINK that's what it is, but that's a great pic, btw.

[BC-Axeman]

Brad, go to liveaquaria and look up Montipora. It comes in blue. I have a Porites that was originally a worm rock that the worms all died in but the coral is ten times bigger now. Stupid Rhodactis are always trying to carpet it.

[OLS]

The Montipora I see available are too spindly to be this, at least IMVUO (very-uninformed-opinion.) haha. I had a green montipora
that I killed, sadlol. But I am going to stick with Porites, just on the clumpy and stubby fingers. Check out Porites at the same site.
See how height is achieved by a larger central clump, where in Montipora, height is achieved by longer fingers FROM the clump.
Now, with the COLOR morph, yes, that gives me pause. I am not sure Porites has a blue color morph....hmm. Couple that with
the fact that didn't Scott say he got it from F & S ?? Not sure they offer anything like what he has in porites. What has me
latched onto porites is the "skin" of the coral, the encrusting part. Porites I have seen, even including bisma rock, has this "microfibery"
looking skin like that.

[shilala]

OK, I looked on the previous page and see now what you are talking about. If that is 'supposed' to be,
or as you put it, smacks of a leather coral, then I think you have a Porites species there. If it is blue, then
that is reaslly something. I wish I had that. They are also tough to keep alive, put em way up top once you
feel it is acclimated, turbid water and MAYBE target feed? They tend to be out much more at night when in
captivity, so if you can't get it eating in the daytime, you may have trouble keeping it alive. This is the
species of coral that you often see called "worm rock", "Christmas-tree worm rock" or "Bisma rock" It's one
of my personal favorites, if in fact that's what it is. Of course the bisma rock is a much different TYPE of porites.
And I only THINK that's what it is, but that's a great pic, btw.
Brad, this guy is brown and looks like a leather outside, but he has a rock hard skeleton. His skeleton is blue/white.
That thing that is in the background is just a great big blue/white skeleton that I bought years ago in florida cause it was gorgeous. It ended up in the fish tank cause I got tired of looking at it. :)
I suppose my insistance that the two are even remotely related is pretty nonsensical and uninformed. I just thought the similarity was cool.
That brown lump I have has little polyps. You can see them. They used to just come out at night. Now they come out more often.
He's currently at the bottom of the tank, I haven't moved him up for lack of a place to put him.
Lisa's trumpet fell down, so now I have a reason to go diving again. I'll reattach it and sit the brown un-named guy up higher. :tu

[OLS]

So the skin is brown, and where the skin is scraped off, or underneath the base, it is blue/white??
hmmm. This is a mystery. I stick with my theory, but again, I am a seriously under-informed individual
who bases a lot of what I think I know on me thinking I am smarter than I actually am, lol. ;) But
whatever it is, you are lucky to have it. I love mystery corals that go from being pissed off to being beautiful
specimens. If the coral is realtively heavy for it's size, I also vote porites, haha. Mr. broken Record.

[shilala]

I think you guys might be on track with Montipora, cause I recognize the name.
The outside is brown, you can see the polyps in the pic.
The inside is hard, a beautiful blue/white. I'll get a pic later when I move him.
I got him from a frag swap. The guys have pics of the great big lump it came from, he smashed it all up and had lots of pieces there, along with pics of the mother lump.

Here's the pic again, maybe it'll help...

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/6e48843b.jpg

[OLS]

I am also thinking the spacing of the polyps may end up being important, porites is more of a carpet of polyps
that are wide and flat, these are more stalked and super widely spaced. I have to admit, I am not sure.
But is is fun guessing and doing something on this slow-a$$ forum.

[shilala]

Maybe Montipora Digitata?
I have never seen sweeper tentacles at night, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. I can start watching?

[BC-Axeman]

The skeleton my not be it's own. Motipora is like stony star polyp and encrusts whatever it can. It would be lettuce leaflike if it didn't have something else to grow on.

Edit: M. digitata sounds like something that would be branching.

[shilala]

The skeleton my not be it's own. Motipora is like stony star polyp and encrusts whatever it can. It would be lettuce leaflike if it didn't have something else to grow on.
Got ya, Lance. That'd probably make it Montipora, right?
Mind ya, this was a great big piece before it got smashed. I don't know if that says "grown" or "stole it's host", but it's definately not on rock, it's on coral. (If that helps.)

Brad, the Porites Cylindrica looks a lot like it, too.

From reading, I see it's important to find out what it is to know how to care for it. Aaargh.

This is giving me a headache.
I gotta go hook up my trailer and fetch my motorcycle at the shop. I sure hope you guys come up with something!!! :D

[OLS]

AH, it doesn't matter....pretty soon it will be 'my brown coral that I like'. You may find out eventually through
the father of the frag. Wish I was picking up a motorcycle.

[BC-Axeman]

Wow! I think this (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+1492+2295+2505&pcatid=2505) is it.
Not even SPS. If you look at the polyps and they have 8 symmetrical tentacles then it's an octocoral. This sounds like a cool specimen, if it doesn't try to take over the whole tank. I just sent a bunch of Rhodactis on a ride "in the water park". Wheeee!

[shilala]

Wow! I think this (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+1492+2295+2505&pcatid=2505) is it.
Not even SPS. If you look at the polyps and they have 8 symmetrical tentacles then it's an octocoral. This sounds like a cool specimen, if it doesn't try to take over the whole tank. I just sent a bunch of Rhodactis on a ride "in the water park". Wheeee!
I think you're right, Lance. If I remember corectly, the dead coral in the background that I keep blathering about was called a Blue Ridge Coral when I bought it years ago down in Florida.
The odds of me seeing 8 symmetrical tentacles are slim to none. I'll take a pic with my good camera and CSI it, then I'll be able to count them.

[SteveH]

Our tanks are truly amazing ecosystems.....

My liferock had more than a couple of hitchhikers on it.....What shocks me is the amount of new life which pops up even to this day (I dip my corals, etc; so 99% sure that whatever pops up was in the rock to begin with). Check out this little guy I captured tonight. He was just roaming around the sand - so an easy catch:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/Tdh0LCY5YUI/AAAAAAAAHAc/mcVpHHYmgHA/s800/IMG_1227.JPG

Any idea as to what he could be ? He's TINY right now; maybe about the size of a penny. I do recall seeing some larger crabs which looked kinda like him when I first got the LR; judging by their claws I didn't feel like they were 'reef safe' so I sump'd them. Clearly I missed a couple and/or the ones in the sump were doing some XXX activities down there :D
I moved him down to the sump; as the spots on his back make be believe he's most likely from the xanthidae family.

[shilala]

He's just a baby by the looks of him, Steve. He could probably turn into anything. Maybe I Sally Lightfoot? Hell, I don't know.

I went to Aquacon in Pittsburgh today. Got some D-T Phyto, some frozen Cyclopeeze, and 10 or 11 little frags out of the cheapo bin. I got a couple decent stalks of Pulsing Xenia, and we're thrilled about it. :D
I also got a big fat sea hare to do some cleaning. I stopped and got 3 bottles of super glue gel to fix all the stuff he wrecks.
We didn't see any big stuff we liked too much, and everything was covered with bubble algae and anemones. So we just passed on the few things we did like.

My D-D refractometer came today and I'm thrilled with it. It works great and you calibrate it with RODI water. My water was perfect.

[SteveH]

Nice - PICS :D

I need to get to the LFS today and get some pH calibrating fluid....Lost power two days ago for about 10mins and ever since my pH probe has been way off....I hope to pick up another mini-carpet 'nem they had there last week - looks really nice.

[shilala]

No pics yet, they're just sitting in the sand. The lights haven't even been on them yet. I'll probably check them for critters again tonight to make sure there's nothing on there that shouldn't be. Then I'll check them a week or so from now.
Everyone gets fed today, and that should pick them up, too. They should be a lot bigger for pics in a real short time. :tu

[SteveH]

Came home tonight to a 'pod explosion ! Everything was jumping around; even the urchin was on the glass (something it never did before).

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DtRl5SWJ2zC8D3QkL7PSUBSpn412H9ynY9qMl44pU2k?feat=d irectlink

[shilala]

That is too cool, Steve. Thank You!!! :tu

[shilala]

Hey guys, another question...
The frags I got Saturday, is it possible to take them off the ceramic discs, or better to leave them alone?
I can see that some are superglued on there pretty crazy, and I'll never get them off. Some I may be able to.
I guess I just want to hear "Leave them alone and just glue them to your rock" before I start killing them all. :D

[BC-Axeman]

Hey guys, another question...
The frags I got Saturday, is it possible to take them off the ceramic discs, or better to leave them alone?
I can see that some are superglued on there pretty crazy, and I'll never get them off. Some I may be able to.
I guess I just want to hear "Leave them alone and just glue them to your rock" before I start killing them all. :D
Just glue the disc.

[SteveH]

+1. Sometimes I'll take a small nail file and roughen up the disc...It helps with both glue and biological adhesion.

[shilala]

Thanks, guys. Will do. :tu

[SteveH]

One more new addition....I actually was going to get this guy last week when I picked up the neon yellow one....But at the time this one was not being cooperative and wouldn't come unstuck. So we moved all the sand away from his foot; and once he moved the LFS snagged him for me.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_IPGHyT92a24/Td1esuF-GbI/AAAAAAAAHC8/aoq4X_mC2q4/s800/IMG_00183.jpg

[shilala]

The heck is that, Steve?
It's badass, but you have some kinda funkadelic lighting going on there.

[Wolfgang]

ITs a carpet anemone under 20k lights (just a guess)

[SteveH]

Yep, Carpet 'Nem.
Not sure what color temp the lights were....Im running AI LED's, where each puck is 1 warm white, one blue, and one royal blue LED. I was just messing with the color blend to find what made the guy pop out.

[shilala]

At the frag swap just awhile ago, the guys were running led's that made everything blue, but the corals would fluoresce. It gave everything a black light/neon paint look.
I didn't like it at all, but if you could mix in a little of that light like I guess you're doing, just to make the corals "pop", that'd be nice to bring out some definition.
Can you mix them up like that, or will one type of lighting overpower another and kill the effect?
Ahh, I think I get it. You have led pucks where you can just concentrate a spotlight?

[SteveH]

Scott -
Here's a link to the lights:
http://www.aquaillumination.com/sol/#intensity

Each unit has 8 pucks in it. Each puck contains 1 warm white, 1 blue, 1 royal. Each of those colors is operated on a different channel...So you can control on/off and intensity for each color. Dependent upon intensity, you can adjust the color temp. So if you look at the tank and think its too blue, you just bump the blue intensity down a little, and bring the white up a little (so you have the same actual PAR)...Or visa versa.

[shilala]

I woke up in the middle of the night last night convinced I need some of those lights, Steve. I must have been dreaming about them. I don't even remotely need any. :D

So, when I woke up, I came downstairs to have a pop tart. I grabbed my flashlight out of my drawer and saw great big sweeper tentacles coming out of the potato chip coral. That's a first time for that.
I also saw four snail looking things all hanging out together on the front glass down by the substrate. They don't appear to have shells, or they just have a flat shell like a turtle shell that blends with the whiteness of their bodies.
I saw one of them before, it came in on a piece of coral. I thought it was cool, and it was from a good source, so I let it be.
Any idea what those things are? They're about the size of a pinky fingernail (and smaller).

[OLS]

I thought once my chip coral was disintegrating in swirly aludge...it was only sweepers. Mine were only about 2 inches.

[Wolfgang]

Sounds like a stomatella Scott. Dont worry about them. :D

[shilala]

I thought once my chip coral was disintegrating in swirly aludge...it was only sweepers. Mine were only about 2 inches.
I fully expected mine to be in a giant knot this morning. It seems to have worked itself out. :D

[shilala]

Sounds like a stomatella Scott. Dont worry about them. :D
I checked pics, Mark. That's what they are.:tu
I suppose they were probably all gathered together making sexy time last night. Any babies that eat stuff I don't want in there are okay by me.

On another front, my big, fat sea hare made an appearance this morning, right after I told Lisa I hadn't seen him for a couple days.
The pic sucks, but it'll do...

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/8c3559ff.jpg

[shilala]

As you can see, I'm not much of a cleaner. :D
Hopefully Lisa will help me glue some critters and then I can clean the front really good. I like to leave the back and sides for the animals to take care of.
I suppose I should change some water, as well. I was overfeeding pretty bad, I just wanted the new corals to have plenty to eat. Now I have a mess again.

[shilala]

When I was up having my pop tart/reef check last night, I spotted a possible one of those bad anemones, the little brown ones. I always forget the name.
Whatever it is, it gets killed soon.

[SteveH]

Scott -
Speaking of those bad anemones (Either Apastia or Majano)...I picked up this niffty little thing last week which allows you to electrocute them...Its fun, and more effective than the other methods :D

[Wolfgang]

LINK? this sounds amusing.

[shilala]

Scott -
Speaking of those bad anemones (Either Apastia or Majano)...I picked up this niffty little thing last week which allows you to electrocute them...Its fun, and more effective than the other methods :D
That's what I'm talkin about. :tu
I've never had a one, but with all the new corals, I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later. A cattle prod would be way better than mooshing them and wiping them off with a paper towel. :D

[shilala]

LINK? this sounds amusing.
I found this (http://reefgizmo.com/2010/10/the-aiptasia-zapper/). It looks like a blast. :tu

Here's where I found them for sale. (http://www.saltwaterconnection.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=151)
It's a new product and there's a patent pending, so apparently they're hard to come by. That first link has the inventor's email where supposedly you can contact him directly and buy one.
Waiting to see where Steve got his...

[SteveH]

Hrmm - that one looks interesting ! Here's where I got mine:

http://tropicalreefcorals.com/product.php?id_product=155

Quite honest, I am on the fence with what design I like better. The one that Scott found is nice - because both electrodes are on the same wand. The one I ordered the electrodes are separate; which may mean that its easier to replace/maintain in the future.....Granted I don't think you'll go through electrodes anytime soon - but it IS saltwater; and damn these things are expensive.

[shilala]

I found a DIY thread (http://www.3reef.com/forums/i-made/diy-aiptasia-killer-using-electrolysis-103865.html) for one like the one you have, Steve.
I only looked at the initial pics, haven't read the thread yet. It'd definately very easy to make. Not so easy right now with my shop in boxes, but it will be once I'm unpacked.

[BC-Axeman]

I should have my zapper finished today. I used RTV silicone to seal it up which takes longer than hot glue but I trust it more. I made it 100% from parts that were just around.
Some chemistry facts:
Oxygen and chlorine end up as the gas on the (+) electrode that you are zapping with. That is probably the way it is killing.
Hydrogen, sodium, magnesium, calcium, etc. go to the (-) graphite electrode. I'm thinking this will mess up that electrode after a while.
I don't think the electricity by itself is killing anything.

[BC-Axeman]

Finished the zapper and tried it in some salt water. It bubbles pretty good. Can't wait to get home and try it on some anemones.
A little more I figured out about the chemistry. The chlorine you can smell. There must be some sodium being produced on the graphite electrode. This would react instantly with the water to produce NaOH (lye) and more hydrogen. It also would produce a lot of heat. The chemicals are not a problem as most tanks will buffer them away but the heat could get to be a problem if you were to use a switch that stayed on instead of a momentary switch. Then again, the water may keep it cooled. Just a thought.

[shilala]

Lance, I did a bunch of forum reading when the zapper first got mentioned. The only thing they said that you didn't say is to re-up your carbon to buffer the chlorine.

[BC-Axeman]

I tried the zapper on about 20 majano. They shriveled up at least as bad as injecting them with kalkwasser would have done. I didn't zap any aiptasia yet, they are more fragile anyway. In my experience majano can come back from being almost gone, but aiptasia disappear quickly. Now to see if the majano recover or not. This is still easier than injecting them.

[shilala]

Lance, one of the guys who built his own said you could jam the wire right through the anemone, zap it, and it'd lift right away. I guess that depended on the size, I suppose? It'd be nice to get them out of there rather than have all the dead stuff, I was thinking.
Other guys said one zap would turn them to jelly, which is contrary to what the videos showed.
Let me know what happens exactly, will ya?

[BC-Axeman]

Maybe an Aiptasia might melt but Majano are pretty sturdy. Mine shrivel up as if I put Joe's Juice on them. My probe is a little too thick to be poking through some of the small ones and if I could get to them easily I would scrape them out with my custom built scraper. I am not going to kill more than 15-20 at a time so the bristle worms, serpent stars, hermit crabs, and who knows what else can take care of the clean up.

[shilala]

Good thinking, Lance. :tu
I was gonna ask you to make me one cause I don't have time, but I also don't have a problem yet, so there's that. :D
I'll make one later this Fall if it's necessary. I kept the DIY plans, so I'm good. I remember how to make it, anyways, so the plans don't much matter, even.

[BC-Axeman]

Yep, the plans are pretty flexible. Just remember to hook the + to the zapping end. I tried to pull some out and it does make them release. My tip is already getting eroded. It was 308 stainless welding rod. I will have to look up that alloy and see if there is a better one.

[shilala]

Yep, the plans are pretty flexible. Just remember to hook the + to the zapping end. I tried to pull some out and it does make them release. My tip is already getting eroded. It was 308 stainless welding rod. I will have to look up that alloy and see if there is a better one.
Tungsten oughta work, yo?

[BC-Axeman]

Tungsten oughta work, yo?
I have tungsten. ;)

[shilala]

I have tungsten. ;)
I have no idea how it'd break down chemically, but it's gotta be a lot more stable, oxidation-wise.
Will you please let me know what you find out, Lance?

[BC-Axeman]

A quick search of "tungsten salts" comes up with tungsten chlorides of all sorts. Maybe not a good choice. I have some platinum wire that may work. Not something everyone may try.

Edit: Tungsten may work as it needs elevated temps to react with Cl. Common welding tips (TIG).

[shilala]

Lance, maybe try the tungsten in some salt water apart from your tank?
I'd just like to see if the surface oxidizes. I have no idea what the temp would be where the water meets the electrode. It could be high, it's just the low voltage that doesn't press the catalysm?

[BC-Axeman]

Tungsten doesn't bend either, so I will come up with a new way to make the angled tip. And yeah, I will try it apart from the tank first. Tungsten chlorides are blue.

[shilala]

Tungsten chlorides are blue.
Odd and cool. It isn't making magnesium chloride, is it?

[BC-Axeman]

Magnesium ends up on the graphite with the hyrodgen and probably ends up as a metal, oxide or hydroxide. The calcium for sure doesn't end up as a metal in the water.

A cool site for elements. (http://www.webelements.com/magnesium/chemistry.html)

[shilala]

That really is a nice site. Thanks, Lance. :tu

[BC-Axeman]

I think the polarity in the DIY thread is backward. The negative electrode bubbles much more actively because of the extra gasses from secondary reactions (sodium mostly). Also, chlorine eats stainless steel. I was messing around with platinum wire from a thermocouple and I didn't use graphite for the other electrode but instead just some of the SS I had. The minus electrode of SS bubbles a lot more than the platinum one did and wasn't eroding. If I put SS on the plus side it erodes and gives off a yellow plume. This makes sense to me. I will reverse the polarity on the zapper I made and try it out.

[BC-Axeman]

2Na + 2H2O --> 2NaOH + H2 = f#(ked up anemones. It works MUCH better with the SS zapper hooked up to the (-) and the graphite on the (+). Tears them up into little bits and fries them into white matter. The tip may be even building metal up on it now instead of eroding. It's almost not even fair to the little bastards except I know I can never get the last one.

[Wolfgang]

is it possible to get a picture/video in action?

[BC-Axeman]

is it possible to get a picture/video in action?
It looks just like that youtube video in the links.
I think when the polarity was wrong I was poisoning the anemones and when I switch it around it fries them with caustics and vigorous bubbles.

[Wolfgang]

Unlike the chemicals its unlikely they will build up an immunity ;)

[shilala]

Lance, the probe stuff you're using now is more conductive. What I'm wondering is if you'll get a further amp push around the death probe?
If there's no fish around, it's hard to tell if they'll get stung, ya know?
Maybe they worked backwards to the graphite so there's minimal effective zappage at the killing probe point?
I don't know if there are any fish in your tank, but if not, maybe a couple feeder tube trained damsels would make good test subjects?

[BC-Axeman]

The fish are ever so curious about what's going on and are hard to keep away. They seem unaffected by the chemicals or the charge.
I built my zapper exactly as in the DIY post, except with silicone instead of hot glue. I figured the polarity in the artical was backward and just reversed mine. I never really built a tungsten or platinum probe, just tested them with a power supply and a bowl of salt water.
I measured the graphite at about 25 ohms. That would allow a maximum of about 1/2 amp to flow at 12v. The adapter I am using is rated at 600 mA (.6 A). It all works out.
The good thing about zapping them is if they recover it's easy to go back and get them again. They can recover if they are not damaged enough.

[shilala]

Hopefully I won't have use for one, but there were some aptasia on the frags I got recently. I clean them off by hand, very thoroughly, but who knows?
Thanks for all the input, brother. It's a BIG help. :tu

[OLS]

Jeez what a couple of pages. Sorry but I can't stick an arcing rod into a fish tank. On the pest/plague front,
I have had to go ahead and re-start my skimmer. I have gotten too lazy with water changes and have begun
to notice a plague of valonia algae and just an all-around funk going on. So I fired it up last night and will continue
to change 2-3 gallons a day til I get this under control.

[BC-Axeman]

It doesn't arc, of course. I figure it's a way of injecting concentrated lye into the pests, or at least onto them. I love it, the first sign of hope I've had.
I guess I should do my annual major water change too. I do small ones every month or so.

[shilala]

Sorry but I can't stick an arcing rod into a fish tank.
Pu$$y. :D

[LostAbbott]

Guys, I need more pictures. There had been two pages of chatter with no pictures... I don't have a reef tank myself and probably never will, but I love seeing shots of your amazing tanks. Thanks for having this thread here, another reason why this place kicks ass!

[shilala]

Here's one, Mychal. I just took it. It's a long-spined urchin.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/8fb3a65f.jpg

[shilala]

On a good note, I noticed our first baby hammer coral today. We can grow paly's like nobody's business, and everything else is splitting and dividing and so forth, but for some reason Lisa and I got really excited when we saw a baby mushroom awhile ago. We watched it every day.
Now this baby hammer just kinda came from nowhere. It's cute as a bug. :D

The stupid atomic boring eagle eye paly has spread to rocks in all directions, it's a monster. It deserved an honorable mention for insane growth rate. It has gone from the size of a pinky fingernail to the size of a softball in just a few months.
At this point, I probably won't add anything else at all unless I really, really like it. Otherwise corals will be spilling over and out of my tank in no time.

[BC-Axeman]

I zapped a rhodactis as an experiment. It worked. I may prune enough room back in my tank to put some new variety in it.

[Wolfgang]

Make sure to run carbon after zapping Rhoactids. They tes to throw slime and ther bad stuff into the water column.

[BC-Axeman]

Make sure to run carbon after zapping Rhoactids. They tes to throw slime and ther bad stuff into the water column.
:tu Got the carbon thing covered.
Just another observation (sorry). When I had the polarity backwards and was putting nickle, chrome, and maybe cobalt, possibly iron into the anemones, they would wither up and die. Hitting them the other way tears them up but if I don't get them bad enough they grow back. At least it's easy to hit them again.
Pics of a mostly anemone free tank to come, as soon as I clean it enough to get a picture.:D

[Wolfgang]

Dont kill them all. If you kill them all you wont get to play with your new toy :D

[LostAbbott]

Here's one, Mychal. I just took it. It's a long-spined urchin.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/8fb3a65f.jpg

:tu That guy looks really cool. When I was on Kauai last year I saw a fish eat one of those guys.

[shilala]

:tu That guy looks really cool. When I was on Kauai last year I saw a fish eat one of those guys.
When I was in the Keys last year it was freezing cold and I saw thousands upon thousands of urchins dead on the bottom in the shallows. They were short-spined ones, not that it matters.
I'd like to go back next year and see how stuff has recovered. Without the urchins to clean, I bet it became quite a mess for awhile, considering the tons (literally) of dead fish everywhere.
What's odd is that I never saw them before when I was snorkeling in the shallows, or at least not in any kind of numbers that they left an impression on me. The particular variety must be nocturnal, or they simply washed in from the flats is the best I can figure.

[OLS]

I had an interesting theory pop into me head last night. I have one of the OOOOld style Berlin skimmers,
in which you hook up a 'jet engine' to it and it makes some bubbles and maybe skims. However, all these years
I was getting bigger and bigger water pumps cause I thought with the type of venturi it had, it would only
make sufficient bubbles if it was flowing mad water. But when I re-purposed it this week, I used a comparably
tiny pump on it, and I opened up the air hose flow wide open and I was barely gettin foam. I think in
the years past, I had max flow, but I had to stop down the air injection to near zero to keep it from
overfoaming. I think once this one tunes up a bit I am gonna get good foam from max air and less than
max water flow. Sad part is although I have three different pump sizes, on a 20 gallon tank, there is not
much room for pumps. So I am sticking with lil junior.

[shilala]

Good luck, my man. :tu
Let us know how the experiment goes.

[shilala]

Today my hammer sent out a sweeper tentacle or something and got snagged up by the Gonapora. The Gonapora hung on for the best part of the day until it finally cut the hammer loose just a little while ago.
It managed to unmoor the hammer, now I have to get some more glue and stick it down good. I might just move it if I can find someplace to put it. :D

[shilala]

I ordered an aiptaser from the same place Steve did. It seems like that one is the real deal, and it looks to be made well. I saw a couple knockoffs for a few bucks less, but I didn't think that was a good idea. It'd be months before I have time to make my own, and want to kill these few freeloaders I have in my tank before they catch hold and give me a real problem.

Lance, I even thought to bug you into building one for me, but with everything you have going on I figured it'd be rude, even though I know yours would work better.
If you get bored this winter and get all your refinements finalized, keep me in mind, will ya? I imagine I'm going to want something customized so I can reach all the places where this one can't reach if this critter invasion gets hold.

[shilala]

I should also mention that I moved stuff around a bit and buried a really good rock for the maxima to moor himself on.
By moving things just a little bit, I gave myself lots more places to put the frags I had that fell off, etc. I also was able to turn the gonapora around a bit so it was more viewable. I got a good look at my hammer coral, and it has ten or twelve new starts going on. That thing is going to be HUGE in no time.
Everything is growing real well. If there was one thing that I think made a difference, it's the phyto. I finally switched to DT's and I'm much happier. I'm not sure if the Cyclopeeze made a difference, but all the different foods certainly are helping.
My pods are exploding, and everything that died back from the move is coming back way better than before.
Can you tell I'm excited? :D

[shilala]

I just noticed some new pulsing Xenia babies today.
I made a nighttime soup of frozen coral food, frozen Cyclopeeze, and a couple tablespoons of DT's phyto. The stink was glorious.
I seriously considering a second more bigger water making machine, something with a larger bladder or series of bladders so I can crank out 20 or 30 gallons at a clip. This 3 gallons at a time thing is ridiculous.
Maybe I'll just hook up a regular well bladder tank and let some air out from behind the bladder tank and just use what I have?
Thoughts?

[BC-Axeman]

I use a plastic barrel with a float valve to collect my RO/DI water. You can get those at any hardware store. You can double up the barrel if you can't find a sturdy enough one.

[shilala]

I use a plastic barrel with a float valve to collect my RO/DI water. You can get those at any hardware store. You can double up the barrel if you can't find a sturdy enough one.
I gave that some thought before, Lance. Even thought about a giant tub sump in the basement. I just don't want barrels, and I sure don't want to take a chance on a float valve malfunctioning and flooding the basement once it's finished. I wanted a closed system that's point of use.
I could even do that with a 10" or 12" pvc tube up in the joists, using the airgap for backpressure.
At any rate, it's a winter project. I'm way too busy to even be thinking about this right now. :D

[shilala]

Oh yeah, got my aiptasia nuker today. I played with it for five minutes and put it away. I nuked a couple and they sucked in their holes. I'll go after them later tonight and get what I didn't already kill. :tu

[BC-Axeman]

Yeah, Scott, I have found that the ones that hide back in holes are very hard to kill. You just singe them and they grow back. I like to jab the electrode in them and just let it sit there for about 30 seconds. Bwahahahaha! Nhya-ah-ah!

[shilala]

I drill right in the hole after them. As a result, I knocked a couple frags off and I'll have to find them and reglue them. It was worth it, though. :D

[SteveH]

Any new pics ?

[shilala]

Any new pics ?
I'll get some for ya if iever get done working outside. My babies are growing like crazy. In the morning I gotta get in there are get a couple that fell down.

[shilala]

The Aiptasia Zapper kills bristle worms. That is all. :D

[shilala]

After watching these corals for a good while now, I see that it's pretty obvious both when they're happy and when they're hungry. They're pretty damned amazing. I need to go swimming in there soon to move and separate a few things. The yellow coral isn't doing well up close to the lights, I want to move it down a bit. It seems everything but the xenia and cup coral wants to be down away from the lights a bit.

[OLS]

I wonder if by 'yellow coral" you mean those yellow polyps? I warned you when you first mentioned them that they
tend to die off with no explanation. Most would say they are not hard to keep, and they have a rock COVERED
in them to prove it. But just as many report they just died off slowly, one by one. Sad really. I liked mine til they
were a bare rock.

[shilala]

I wonder if by 'yellow coral" you mean those yellow polyps? I warned you when you first mentioned them that they
tend to die off with no explanation. Most would say they are not hard to keep, and they have a rock COVERED
in them to prove it. But just as many report they just died off slowly, one by one. Sad really. I liked mine til they
were a bare rock.
Yup, that's what I meant, yellow polyps. I'm going to start a big water change today, and I'll move them, see what happens. I like them, too. It's worth trying to save them. I lost my starfish and I think I lost my sea hare, both to the urchin.

[shilala]

Here's a new thing...
I have these little critters on my glass all over the place. They amount to tens of them, not hundreds or something like that. I've been watching them grow steadily, and they grow fast. I haven't been cleaning the glass so they have lots to eat as they grow.
My guess is that they're offspring of my red starfish that recntly died, or they're urchin babies. The kicker is that they have six legs, my red star had five. They could be brittle stars that came in on new stuff.
Will you guys let me know what you think?
Here's a pic from my phone, hope it turns out...

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/bb3bf123.jpg

[OLS]

NO, they are not urchins...they are a kind of a pest starfish that eates certain types of coral. Maybe if you have none
it would be OK to let em grow, but they will never be like full size starfish and they are considered relatively bad...
Lemme do some poking around and I will link you some threads. Their pest-worthiness is apparently in the eye of the
reefer. You'll have to decide what you want to do. You can search from here, there is the basic nomenclature in the
thread below.

---------------

http://www.livingreefs.com/pest-starfish-t16171.html

[shilala]

I poked around a bit, Brad. There's plenty of bad stories to go with the good, but I'm 100% ready to start picking them. No need to wait for a problem. I have to kill some other crap, so I need to go swimming soon anyways.
Right now these guys are hardcore grazers, they're just eating algae film off the walls. They'd probably be okay because I only ever clean the front wall. It seems they're opportunists though. As soon as they've run out of algae, they'll become a problem. Dammit.

[shilala]

Brad, that Goniapora is doing great, too. The pinking stuff with blue eyes, I'm pretty sure that's what you guys said it was.
The yellow polyps continue to fail. I got a tip in the link you gave me. Those stars will irritate and not allow stuff to open and starve them out. When I go swimming, I'll do a hardcore inspection. I've heard of getting the crabs, but the starfish? ewww. :D

[Wolfgang]

Here's a new thing...
I have these little critters on my glass all over the place. They amount to tens of them, not hundreds or something like that. I've been watching them grow steadily, and they grow fast. I haven't been cleaning the glass so they have lots to eat as they grow.
My guess is that they're offspring of my red starfish that recntly died, or they're urchin babies. The kicker is that they have six legs, my red star had five. They could be brittle stars that came in on new stuff.
Will you guys let me know what you think?
Here's a pic from my phone, hope it turns out...

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/bb3bf123.jpg

Looks like astrea stars. Ive got thousands of them in my tank. No harm to sps lps or softies. most of them are harmless algae grazers only a few species actually fo after sps.

[BC-Axeman]

I have a lot of those Astrea too. They eat the dead stuff and algae and as far as I can tell they cause no harm at all. Mine have from three to seven arms. I think they go through the pumps every now and then.
I see one in the pink area on the lower rock in the picture with three big arms and some small nubs

[BC-Axeman]

My yellow damsel laid eggs in a big patch on the front glass then ate them all the next day. I watched her laying them. I think the male is supposed to swim over them fertilizing but he wasn't doing that. The clowns raise batch after batch of eggs but I have yet to catch them hatching. If they make it through the overflow into the refugium and don't get into a return pump or skimmer they might survive. It would blow me away to one day find a baby clownfish in the refugium.

[shilala]

Brad, I moved my yellow polyps, there's nothing wrong with them. The great big spiny urchin I have was constantly crawling over them and irritating them. He's doing the same to some other stuff. I think it may be time for him to go down the road.

[Wolfgang]

GF is finally gone so i get to start a new reef adventure. More info in the next few weeks.

[shilala]

Looking forward to your new reef adventure, Wolfie. :tu

I have two hermit crabs crawling around with Pulsing Xenias on their heads. It's pretty damn cool, that's all I can say. I have a youtube of it that I just put up. My video skillz are pretty bad, but once it's halfway through, it's not bad. It's only 3 minutes, so there's that.
You can check it out right here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcF7e7Jtkgk).

[OLS]

Calling all Aiptasia zappers........anyone want to ship me their shock-boil unit for a week in exchange for the return of
your unit plus some tasty cigars?? Just PM me if anyone wants to play.

[BC-Axeman]

Calling all Aiptasia zappers........anyone want to ship me their shock-boil unit for a week in exchange for the return of
your unit plus some tasty cigars?? Just PM me if anyone wants to play.
I'm going through a redesign or I would just send you one. It seems regular pencil lead graphite doesn't last long. I have to take apart the ones I made and get carpenter's pencil lead for them.

[shilala]

I'll send ya mine, Brad. I sent a pm.

[billyrayvalentin]

Question for the resident reef experts.

I'm starting a 29 gallon reef tank after keeping a cichlid tank for a few years. I started with just 30 lbs of sand and saltwater a few weeks ago. I then put in about 6 lbs of live rock a week later. I added live rock each week for the next couple weeks and got up to about 26 lbs as of a few days ago. I did my first water tests last night and it showed 0 for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Is it possible that my tank has already cycled and is ready for a clean up crew and fish?

Also, I had a HOB filter with a bio-wheel running until earlier this week, and I've had a new model maxi-jet power head running in circulation mode the whole time. The setup was running without lighting until about two weeks ago when I added a dual t5ho fixture.

[shilala]

I think you could throw a couple damsels (or something hearty) in there and a cleanup crew.
Realize it's going to take a good year until it becomes anything like what you want. I've got over 15 years in my base material and there's more things living in there than a person could ever count in a lifetime.
Have fun!!! :tu

[BC-Axeman]

I remember all the weird blooms and cycles mine went through for a couple of years until it settled. Get ready for red algae, diatoms, hair algae, weird bugs, little snails and who knows what else, to go through population booms in there.
You didn't mention a protein skimmer. A must have, in my book.
Clown fish are hardy, too, and a little nicer than damsels.

[shilala]

I've been busting my ass to try to curb the astrea starfish issue with little to no results. It's like if I cut one head off, two appear. They are EVERYWHERE.
While they don't seem to cause any damage to the coarls, they'll crawl all through them and irritate them into staying closed.
I'm planning on getting one or two harlequin shrimp. All they eat are starfish. I figure there's more than enough reproduction here to feed two forever and they may hold the population in check, yet leave enough to feed them. I have tons of rock so there's a never-ending supply of stars on the undersides that will crawl out and present themselves for dinner.
I have two other shrimps in there nopw, I can't think of the names of either. I think one is red and gold strped down it's sides, the other is a goirgeous blood red with white spots.
I am worried they'll fight, but not enough that I'm not willing to give it a shot. :tu

[shilala]

I remember all the weird blooms and cycles mine went through for a couple of years until it settled. Get ready for red algae, diatoms, hair algae, weird bugs, little snails and who knows what else, to go through population booms in there.
You didn't mention a protein skimmer. A must have, in my book.
Clown fish are hardy, too, and a little nicer than damsels.
Good point on the protein skimmer, Lance. It's an absolute must. I run two in the event that one stops working for any reason. I check them regularly, but sometimes not regularly enough. :D

[Jefft72]

Wow! I didn't realize that there was a reef tank thread on CA! Reef tanks are my main obsession, while cigars are a new found hobby. I have had my 55g mixed reef tank for about 2 years now and am currently waiting while my 150g system cycles.
I believe it is just about complete on the cycle and now I need to scape the rock work. Once that is complete then I can move my 55g inhabitants into their new home.

Here is a shot of my 55g mixed reef tank before I moved from Austin to Houston.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ybS0XO4fBfA/TNDa_w85gbI/AAAAAAAACjw/bqomUyUKH3s/s800/IMG_2966.JPG

[billyrayvalentin]

I have a protein skimmer on the way which is why i removed the hob filter. Thanks for the advice. I think I'll add a couple of clown fish, or a clown and something else, and a couple turbo snails to start and see how things go. I think I'm going to wait a good while before adding any corals.

I see there are several reef centered boards out there. Is there any one in particular you would recommend?

[Jefft72]

I have a protein skimmer on the way which is why i removed the hob filter. Thanks for the advice. I think I'll add a couple of clown fish, or a clown and something else, and a couple turbo snails to start and see how things go. I think I'm going to wait a good while before adding any corals.

I see there are several reef centered boards out there. Is there any one in particular you would recommend?

Just a note on damsels, in general they do get territorial and can be a pain to remove later on once you have other fish in there that are more desirable. Chromis are a type of damsel that are typically less territorial.

With regards to the question of your tank cycle, you have added live rock and may have had enough die off to start a cycle, but if you have not been testing the water and been able to see ammonia increase, followed by nitrites and nitrates, then the cycle may or may not have happened.

You can toss a piece of raw shrimp into your tank to fuel the cycle, without risking live fish.

Reefcentral.com is an excellent source of information. You may have a local reef club around you as well.

Good luck and go slow.

[BC-Axeman]

The tank this morning:
http://fracstar.com/pics/1111fishtank.jpg

And the clowns don't wait even one day after the previous eggs hatch to lay a new batch:
http://fracstar.com/pics/clowneggs.jpg

[OLS]

I have a protein skimmer on the way which is why i removed the hob filter. Thanks for the advice. I think I'll add a couple of clown fish, or a clown and something else, and a couple turbo snails to start and see how things go. I think I'm going to wait a good while before adding any corals.

I see there are several reef centered boards out there. Is there any one in particular you would recommend?

It is likely too late now, but you should not remove the HOB filter for awhile. It is generating stuff that you want
by nature of it's bacterial cultures it tends to casue to flourish and grow in it's filters, floss, balls, etc. The skimmer
is nice to have running too, but I wouldn't pull my HOB filter until I was a couple of weeks into my cycled tank. It is
creating nitrates, but you kind of want that in the beginning. But I am no expert, god you should see my
tank's current state.

[OLS]

I've been busting my ass to try to curb the astrea starfish issue with little to no results.
Hahahaha, I told you beyotch, lol....day 1. My deal now is aiptasia. I have pulled out several formerly nice
zoanthid rocks because they get down in the cracks and there is just nothing you can do. I took the rocks out
and let em dry for a day, then scrubbed em with a soft toohbrush and rinsed them in salt water. The Zoos close
up once they realize they are going to dry out, but the aiptasia are not hardy enough on the exterior to just go dry,
and you can get em like that, but they just keep coming back after a few weeks. And their tentacles keep the zo's
closed up, so their life enjoyment is over. So I just tossed the rocks out finally. I am winding this down, it is in a room
I don't frequent and I am a terrible husband to the critters. It sucks power and I am no good at it anymore. When I BUY
my own house, I will crank it back up, til then Time to give up.

[BC-Axeman]

I redesigned the positive (graphite) electrode on my zapper.
http://fracstar.com/pics/zaptip1.jpg

It is platinum wire wound around a ceramic rod and bound with epoxy. The shrink tube is for protection. I tested this at work. With the SS welding wire for the negative electrode there was no erosion on either electrode. Less resistance than graphite too.
http://fracstar.com/pics/zaptip2.jpg

[BC-Axeman]

I find the zapper works best on Majano while Joe's Juice or Kalkwasser works best on Aiptasia.

[shilala]

I called the reefer outfit in Mogadore to see about Harlequin Shrimp to go after this astrea problem. I backed that up with an email, so hopefully I'll have some hel;p in the next week or two.
The dirty bastards are crawling around everywhere like fishtank lice. They're in the Gonpora and irritating it, which super triple pisses me off. ;)
A pair of these Harlequins and some patience should yield results pretty quickly. I'll get back to tweezer picking them, too.

It's tough to keep a reef hospital clean. I wish I could be more like Brad and let it look like a gas station terlit. :lr

[BC-Axeman]

Something must be keeping my astrea in check. I have them but they have never got out of control.
I think the clown eggs will hatch tonight. The fry have less than zero chance of surviving but I would like to catch some just to check them out. They might be able to survive in the refugium. I would think by now some of the past hatches would have made it there and got bigger. I never see them.
Brad, show your tank. :D We want to see how bad they can get and still survive. :hy

[4WheelVFR]

Hopefully I'll be able to contribute to this thread very soon. I've got a 250 gallon acrylic tank that I'll be turning into a mixed reef or fowlr. I've got 850 gallon freshwater tank that is undergoing some plumbing changes though and that's gotta get done first.

[shilala]

I have a pair of Harlequin Shrimp coming today via Fedex. I also got Weeze a new Turquoise Maxima clam, and threw in an electric blue hermit to dig around in my substrate.

I tried like hell to find DT's Oyster eggs and DT's Phytoplankton from the same place and couldn't do it. I paid like $150 for a 32 ounce bottle and a 100ml jar of eggs overnighted. I damn near puked but I've literally put in hours searching over the last two weeks and just couldn't find both from the same place.
The two should last me a good, long time.
It's all Brad's fault. He put a curse on my Goniopora and it's slipping, so I need to feed it oyster eggs and make sure my iron is okay. When I bring it back from death's door I'm going to get a Red Birdsnest Goniopora. The stuff is gorgeous.
I feed ten or twelve different foods, but apparently goniopora needs tiny, tiny food to survive. A phytoplankton/oyster egg isolated feeding will do the trick according to all the reading I've done.
I'll probably feed her in a big bowl for a few hours a day for the next couple weeks. That should do the trick. :tu

[BC-Axeman]

I've heard tell that turning off your skimmer can help Gonis. Mine lasted a couple of years then suddenly faded. Mostly I've just read not to buy these.

[shilala]

I've heard tell that turning off your skimmer can help Gonis. Mine lasted a couple of years then suddenly faded. Mostly I've just read not to buy these.
Brad told me the same thing after I already got it.
I read up real good yesterday and I think I have it all under control now. Once I get the right food and target feed and put the skimmers and stuff on a timer and feed at the right time, I'll be golden.
It's not rocket surgery, they just need some special care that they weren't getting.
And yes, the skimmers are what starves them out. But they can still starve unless there's plenty of stuff that's small enough for them to eat. They need things in the 40-50 micron range. That's about 1/20th the size of Cyclopeeze.
1ml will feed a 50 gallon tank. There's literally millions of eggs in 1ml (1/30th of an ounce). I got a 100ml jar. It's frozen. That'll easily last me well over a year.

What I'll do is set the skimmers, canister filter, over the back filter, and powerheads on a timer. They're already all on one plug bar that I use to power the wavemaker and Koralia powerheads. I can move stuff around so the wavemaker doesn't need reset every time the timer interupts everything. I'll actually probably need two timers, but that's fine, too. It's just that every time the power gets cut to the wavemaker it needs to be reset. I want this to all work automatically.

I'll set everything up to shut off an hour or so before my lights, then start back up a few hours after the lights have been off.
Now that I've typed this I rethunk what I'll do, but you get the idea.
I have two small Koralia's way down in the back bottom of the tank and I might want to leave them on. I can also set a feding time on the wavemaker, so I may do that.
The main thing is that the skimmers and filters need to cut off for about 4 hours a day so my stuff can eat. :tu

[shilala]

The harlequin shrimp arrived. Just for fun, I thought I'd see if they'd eat the Astraea starfish. I picked a couple with tweezers and threw them in their bags while they were floating, still being acclimated. Both shrimp ate them immediately. I was shocked, thrilled, happy, and hollered for Weeze to watch me feed them another and they gobbled them up instantly.

The pair were shipped in separate bags so I was afraid they weren't mated. As soon as I put them together it was like brand new lovers who hadn't seen each other for a week. They hugged and kissed and intertwined themselves like they were one shrimp.

After about a half hour they started hunting together. They worked together to pull a starfish off the glass and the male gobbled it up in one bite. Five minutes later they went to work again. The male and female both had to pry that star from the glass. I thought the male ate it, but then watched him pass it to the female.
Bellies full they backed up near a little ledge and just kicked back, never letting go of each other.

I havent seen them today, they apparently found their home and settled in among the rocks. I am totally in love with these things and I'm planning on a couple more pairs if I find in my reading that they'll live peacefully.
Once the Andreas are cleaned up, I can start feeding them chocolate chip stars.
This has been some serious fun. I can't wait to watch them work again, they're the coolest reef critters I've ever owned. :tu

[shilala]

My new buddies are doing great. They moved out front cause they wanted to be on the intersne, so here they are. Mind ya, they're hanging upside down.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/391eeb86.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/41d49229.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/026851ec.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/cbbf057b.jpg

[shilala]

And here's a pic of the turquoise crocea...

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/a7a1c5a3.jpg

[LostAbbott]

Wow Scott, you have some seriously impressive stuff in your tank! Thanks for sharing!

[BC-Axeman]

Feeding a Pooffer fish...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=525_1322507658

[shilala]

Never imagined feeding mice to my fish. lol

My new harlequin shrimp are going crazy eating those astrea stars. They're definately giving me my money's worth.

I culled out a giant wad of pulsing xenia a couple days ago. It just grows so fast I can't keep it culled back fast enough. I need a lawn mower for it. :D

I zapped a few anemone's between last night and today. I can't find any more so I'll just wait another month and see what happens.

I got the DT's frozen oyster eggs and a new quart DT's phyto. I'm spot feeding the goniopora and it's coming back already. There's a drastic improvement after just one feeding. They were just starving to death is all. There wasn't any food in the tank small enough to sustain them. :tu

Last, but not least, I put my skimmers, OTB and cannister filter on a timer plug-bar. It shuts them off every night from 8 to midnight. I set an alarm on my phone so I remember to feed at 8. That'll allow all the corals to eat for 4 solid hours before skimmers kick back in. I'm going to feed every other day, using the spot feeder and oyster eggs for the Goni while I feed the other end of the tank with a variety of foods.
I'm super excited about getting this Goniopora to come back because I'd love to get the red bird's nest Goni. It's gorgeous. :tu


http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt64/carolinareefgrowers/red_goniopora.jpg

[Blueface]

While some of you know my tank is not a reef given my fish choice, since photos are on here, thought this would be the place to update.
After 15 years in the hobby and half of that in the business of designing, setting up and maintaining saltwater tanks, I regret to say mine has seen its last days with me.
Fish will be gone today, sold, and a couple gifted to my son.
Tank being picked up in the next few days, also sold.
After many multi level epidurals, my back can no longer handle those heavy bleached corals for cleaning.
Next, will sell those corals also and probably get more than for the rest of the stuff given how rare they now are.
On to my new hobby of shooting things.


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/DSC_0009.jpg[/QUOTE]

[BC-Axeman]

I was just thinking about you, Carlos, and wondering what was up with your tank. I have thought about dismantling my setup many times. It looks like more trouble than maintaining it.
I hope you get feeling better.

[shilala]

Sorry to hear you're wrapping it up, Carlos. It'd be nice to see you downsize. That's a huge mess you have to work on.

Personally, I'm moving full steam ahead.
I just got done installing my new RODI system. I'm going to add a cleaner/softener to the whole house, so it'll even get better shortly.

Here's pics in phases...
This one you can see my old dual home/reef system. I totally reworked it so that it's now just a salt bath. The two tanks are for drinking water at the sink. Our incoming water is around 450tds. It's gross. The new home/reef brings that down to about 70 at the special spigot at the sink. It should come down even further when I get the whole house conditioner in.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/500221b0.jpg

Here's the new Hurricane? dual home/reef. It does a nice job. Once again, it struggles with how awful our water is, but that'll soon be corrected.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/b85f69c1.jpg

I put a 25 gallon holding tank in for my zero tds water for my reef tank. I have a 90 gallon reef. I figure if I do a few water changes this month and next, I'll get the water down to a level of clean I'm happy with.
I had it real good but the filters puked on my old RODI system and I hadn't tested the water, so I was topping off for a long time with 200tds water. It made a mess. Again.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/94573fdd.jpg

Here's the new Whirlpool conditioner for the whole house. I'll tie it in right after the lawn sprinklers come off, it should make an enormous difference in my reef water-making ability and clean up all our sinks and stuff. The calcium carbonate here is off the map. I'm super excited about getting this right.
I gathered all the rest of my material today, I should have it in by tomorrow evening. :D

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/bb946ac7.jpg

[shilala]

I just checked to see when I got the Harlequin Shrimps. That was just back in December. They have totally cleaned the tank of astrea stars. I'm talking complete genocide. So much so that I'm going to have to get them a chocolate chip star now and again to feast on so they'll stop sitting and staring at me.

The RO extravaganza has been done and the softener installed. It still makes RO water very slowly, but fast enough for me to take care of water changes properly, and to give me all that water (25 gallons) when I need it.

Tomorrow we're going up north to a Frag Swap, I can't wait to see what we come home with. :tu

[shilala]

Oh, one more thing...
My hermit crabs keep eating my clams. I've fed them a blue maxima and crocea so far. My plan is to eradicate them next. I'll pick them and set a food trap and just be rid of them.
Is there any reason whatsoever that I should keep the little assholes in my tank? I have a couple shrimp that clean and a deep bed of worms and copepods, I just can't think of a reason to keep them. I've just had them so long that I think they need to be in there. :)

[Jefft72]

I am not a fan of hermits myself. Clean up crew consists of a various snails for me (astrea, nassarius, etc) along with whatever soup of critters are in there (bristle worms, etc).

Hermits are fun to look at, but too destructive.

[shilala]

I am not a fan of hermits myself. Clean up crew consists of a various snails for me (astrea, nassarius, etc) along with whatever soup of critters are in there (bristle worms, etc).

Hermits are fun to look at, but too destructive.
The hermits ate every single snail in the tank, too. I'll have to find some reef-safe snails that will work once I get rid of these hermits.

[Jefft72]

Reef safe snails:
-Nassarius (burrow in the sand, and come out to feed)
-astrea (move around on glass and rocks eatting algae)
-Turbo (large, and sometimes bullish if coral that is not secured gets in their way, but they will mow down hair algae)
-cerith (similar to the astrea in behavior, but has a different shaped shell, smaller and usually cheaper).

I like a large quantity of snails. I don't have near enough currently, but I would try to do 1 per gallon with a mix to whatever ones you choose. You can usually check the online vendors to get better prices for a variety pack. Good luck with the hermit extraction. Feeding them croceas would be an expensive diet :)

[sevans105]

Hi guys, I've been reading through this thread with a lot of interest lately. 1 of my friends has a 75 gallon live rock tank that he has severely neglected. he is giving it to me but I'm wondering what sort of things I need to do to start it up correctly. it has all the filtration system skimmers lights everything, she has just let it get over grown with some sort of green algae. there are also a few fish in it, nothing special, a blue damsel and two tomato clowns. From what I've read I need to take things out and scrub them with a wire brush, rinse them in new clean water, and then slowly incorporate the new water into the tank. any other suggestions?

[shilala]

The green algae grows when the water is too fertile. So does brown algae and all the other crap. She was probably topping off with tap water.
To do the reef thing, you absolutely have to have a source of zero tds (total dissolved solids) water, Scotty. That means it's completely pure. Then there's nothing for the algae to grow on.
I get lazy and don't test my water from my unit and I can tell the filters are shot as soon as algae blooms. Some amount is acceptable, but not much.

I don't think I'd start scrubbing anything. Move the tank, make new water (even if you have to buy distilled by the gallon at Target), and get a Tang. Tangs love eating that algae, they'll clean it right up, but slowly. That's what you want.
If you start scrubbing the rock you'll do more damage than good.

You'll probably need new lightbulbs, too. Depends on what kind of fixture she has. Just clean the filters and skimmers and do proper maintenance.
The new, clean water will likely starve the green algae and make it break down and sluff off slowly. The Tang would keep up with that and you won't have a big nasty bioload for the filters and tank and water to take care of.

After the initial setup, you'll need to change about 1/3 of the water once a month.
Then start reading your brains out. It only took me 15 years to get from a saltwater rock/fish tank to a successful reef.
Reef tanks need specialized equipment that I didn't have quite right (lights and wavemakers, mainly). Once everything is right, it's easy. About as hard as taking care of a cat.

[Jefft72]

Scott, if the tank is overwhelmed with algae due to neglect then it might be best to break it down completely and try to start fresh. I would try to sell the fish back to a local fish shop. "Cooking" the rock would come next and is a process meant to kill all the nuisance algae that has collected. Basically, you put all the rock into a rubber maid container (multiple if necessary) and fill with new saltwater. Then you put a pump in there for circulation and perhaps a bubble stone. Some folks will run a skimmer as well. Weekly water changes will be done during the process and after several weeks of this you will have sparkling new rock that is clean and clear.

During that time you can also scrape all the surfaces of the tank so that the glass is clear again and clean along with cleaning any equipment that also might need it. Vinegar baths do wonders for reef equipment that is encrusted with algae.

It sounds like a lot of work I realize, but if you start a reef/saltwater/freshwater tank with algae then it will be a constant battle and you will not enjoy it. You may very well encounter algae once you get the tank setup anyway. Algae is a way of life it seems.

Good luck with it if you decide to take the plunge.

[shilala]

I'm with ya, Jeff. I was just doing the cook and trying to save the rock as best as possible. I've had no problems controlling algae with good water. I watch diatom blooms and algae to let me know where my water is at. It's not very good right now.
I'm sure it's way more than acceptable to anyone in the world but me, but I like a super-clean tank and I'm crazy anal about it.
The clowns and damsel shouldn't have any problem with the new water, but Scotty could isolate them in a bucket with a bubbler. Personally I'd toss them in, they're tough.
I'd definately clean the tank and filters and skimmers before I reuse them. I keep a five gallon bucket of white vinegar with a lid on it and run a powerhead in there when I'm cleaning stuff. It works wonders. :)

[BC-Axeman]

My hermits only eat things that are dieing anyway. I have had a dozen snails for more than a year and had a crocea that survived about five years with a bunch of hermit crabs.
Algae will die off if you get all the nutrients out of the water. Starve it down. Cleaning, filtering, water changes, live stripping by growing algae in the refugium and throwing it away, etc. The removing the rocks and scrubbing helps by taking away material from the nutrient cycle.

[sevans105]

Thanks guys! I think I'll do the cook process. I've had a salt fish tank in the past and I'm with Scott...I like a clean tank. I think I may convert another smaller tank I have that is currently empty into a holding tank for the fish while I cook and clean. I live in the middle of no where and the closest store is an hour away so the buy back deal is kinda rough. Besides, they are kinda cute. Lots of work ahead of me but I'm kind of excited. I'll keep you guys posted on my successes/failures.

Thanks again

[Jefft72]

All good advice Scott. You have a lot more experience in the marine tank world than I do so I was definitely looking forward to your take on Scott's situation.

I just replaced the filters and DI in my system. My tank currently has more bubble algae than I am happy with and my halide bulbs need to be replaced (the algae outbreak may be a mixture of bad topoff and the bad bulbs).

The wife and I have discussed shutting the tank down. I want to build a LED setup to grow SPS in the 150g system.......unfortunately that's not a cheap project. Cheaper than buying off the shelf, but still an investment. Plus with 4 kids under the age of 5 any free time......what free time :) The biggest factor is simply putting more money into it to get it where I want it to be. I have halide ballasts that are bad and need to be replaced/repaired. Weekly maintenance really isn't that big of a deal, like you stated above. Refill topoff container, clean glass, monthly water changes.

I am still flip flopping over the decision to shut it down. Hopefully I can find a way to keep it.

[shilala]

I run a 500-550 watt 8-tube t5 hood over my 75 gallon, Jeff.
Granted, it was expensive at the outset, but I've had it for a lot of years now and aside from changing bulbs now and again, it works great.
I did all the homework on LED lighting less than a year ago. I decided against it. It just simply is not ready for marine application yet. You can make it go, but it costs a fortune, is very focused, and looks like sh1t.
In five years, I honestly think it'll be a no-brainer that it's the way to go, but after all the reading and hearing guy's experiences, it's real clear it's left them wanting.

I found one piece of bubble algae in my tank the other day. I dislodged it and lost it. It'll show up later as a big goofy looking thing and I'll pick it out. I have a few aiptasia or mojanos in there, too. I can't seem to zap the little bastids so I turned some rock to make them more accessible. Now a couple things fell and I have to go diving and glue them down. I'll wait a bit cause I want to see what I find Saturday at the frag swap. I'll probably have to do a bunch of remodeling. I need a few more pieces of rock, too.

[shilala]

Thanks guys! I think I'll do the cook process. I've had a salt fish tank in the past and I'm with Scott...I like a clean tank. I think I may convert another smaller tank I have that is currently empty into a holding tank for the fish while I cook and clean. I live in the middle of no where and the closest store is an hour away so the buy back deal is kinda rough. Besides, they are kinda cute. Lots of work ahead of me but I'm kind of excited. I'll keep you guys posted on my successes/failures.

Thanks again
You have a plan, Scotty. You can use your friend's water for the temp tank. Just don't use it for the new tank. You can't (or shouldn't) use the cook water in your new tank, either. You're gonna be making a lot of water, for sure. Tons.
Before you leap, consider using all her stuff the way it stands and do water changes and a tang. It'll be a lot cheaper but it'll take longer.
Just cleaning the tank will be a huge step forward, and in a few months the water will be right. You can probably remove another ton of crap by hand, stuff that's not stuck so well.
If you work backwards on this stuff, starving it like Lance said, and using a critter to do the cleanup, it just works better.
Reason being, as the algae breaks down, and the water gets better and better, it'll work twice as hard to scrub the water for food, eventually locking everything up that's available.
Soon you'll have none.
I approach everything in the tank from a biolevel, using what's in there to fix what's wrong. If that doesn't work, I add a critter to fix what's wrong.
If you don't fix the whole cycle, the algae just comes back. I learned that by fighting with brown hair for years. (The answer to that was too much light and I put my lights on timers.)
If you work backwards, once the problem is gone you'll know it's gone for good because of good husbandry. If it comes back, and it probably will if you don't get to the root of the problem, then you haven't really learned anything.
Time and patience in reefkeeping is even tougher than in cigars. Really. :)

[Jefft72]

I hear you on the T5 setup. That's what was over my last tank. I still have the IC ballasts and may well ditch the big halide fixture and put T5s over the tank. I have an IC 660 and 430, which may be enough to cover the tank sufficiently.

I have family over last weekend and they were all asking me what the pretty pearlescent green balls were.......I had to tell them that they were not desirable at all.

[shilala]

I hear you on the T5 setup. That's what was over my last tank. I still have the IC ballasts and may well ditch the big halide fixture and put T5s over the tank. I have an IC 660 and 430, which may be enough to cover the tank sufficiently.

I have family over last weekend and they were all asking me what the pretty pearlescent green balls were.......I had to tell them that they were not desirable at all.
We have Family Day here every couple weeks and there are always at least five people firmly set in front of the tank. I give class a few times a year and show everyone how the corals eat and stuff. They love it. :D
Bubble sure is pretty. If you get hardcore about cutting them loose, they'll go to the top, find moving water, and open up into big, goofy looking rubbery taco bowls (in time). It makes them real easy to pick out.

I don't know how many lamps that 660 will drive, but between the two you should have plenty of ass. You gonna build the hood?

[Jefft72]

There is a hood on the tank currently, but the previous owner cut out the top for the halide fixture to fit into. The fixture currently has legs that rest on the inner edge of the hood and sticks out the top. If I were to retrofit the T5s then I would probably fill the hole so that the whole deal could hinge open again like it was designed to do. Fans would need to be added to the hood though for proper ventilation.

I think I may have talked myself into keeping the tank. The wife only asked, "how much will it cost me?" I told her, "practically nothing once I sell the halide fixture and ballasts to offset the cost of new T5 bulbs and endcaps." :) It's a free upgrade.....sort of.

[OLS]

I also like the idea of taking her tank to it's new place, leaving everything in there and just filling with perfect water.
The fish will appreciate the water, the algae will slowly disappear, and the SHOCK value will be minimal, getting you
cycled up good in about a week. You should get a brown diatom bloom after 4-8 days, and once that clears, you
should see real die-off on the hair algae. And like scott said, you can pull 80% of it off by hand and then let the
rest just fade away. Once you get it cleaned up the easy way, then you can start thinking about risking life
forms in it. But for a month I'd just let snails and hermits run around in there, and of course, your 3 fish.
The move alone is going to be a jolt, I'd keep it to a minimum or you will be out of business for over a month,
maybe well over a month.

But you might want to install a three phase RO filter under your sink, they are about 120 bucks at Lowe's
and they should keep pumping out relatively pure water for 6 months on a set of filters. Once you start
letting the filters go a year, or just pouring tap water in, you will have just what your friend had, a big mess.

[shilala]

There is a hood on the tank currently, but the previous owner cut out the top for the halide fixture to fit into. The fixture currently has legs that rest on the inner edge of the hood and sticks out the top. If I were to retrofit the T5s then I would probably fill the hole so that the whole deal could hinge open again like it was designed to do. Fans would need to be added to the hood though for proper ventilation.

I think I may have talked myself into keeping the tank. The wife only asked, "how much will it cost me?" I told her, "practically nothing once I sell the halide fixture and ballasts to offset the cost of new T5 bulbs and endcaps." :) It's a free upgrade.....sort of.
Jeff, I have a computer fan that's about 10" or 12" wide that would likely go right in that hole. You'd have to power it with a low voltage adapter. I have a whole milkcrate of them somewhere.
I think you're going another direction, but thought that might be a way to avoid fans in the ends.
I think you'll be thrilled to get into t5's. I use two different bulbs. I run the actinic blue two hours more each day than the whites. Both are on timers. It's a sweet setup. :)
I look forward to seeing the end result!!! :tu

[shilala]

Once you start
letting the filters go a year, or just pouring tap water in, you will have just what your friend had, a big mess.
It only takes 4-6 months to wreck $70 worth of filters with the sh1tty water here. I put in all that gear that preceeds this page and that should help a lot. Time will tell.
So far so good, and I have 3 water testers now, so I won't be dumping bad water that I thought was good in my tank anymore. On the upside, it didn't take long for me to figure out my filters went bad. Reefs will tell a guy all kinds of stuff if I just look. :)

[Jefft72]

A computer fan that is 10-12" wide? Is it an array of fans 3-4 lined up, I have seen those around before. I haven't thought out the cooling yet, but I think that fans placed on top of the end caps will be the way I go. The only consideration is whether to exhaust air out the top or blow air in and over the end caps.

I will probably go with a fairly open structure and use some aluminum angle to mount everything up to and attach to the existing hood. Cheap, lightweight, and open top so as not to trap heat, but the whole assembly will still hinge open on the existing top that is there.

I did like the T5 setup I had before. I ran 3 T5 and 2 T12 super actinic staggered like you do with timers. SPS grew very well and had great color. Looks like it is time to go shopping for bulbs. The IC 660 will run 16" of bulbs....that would mean 4x4". The 430 has a lower limit if I recall. I may very well have to pick up a second 660 and keep the 430 for actinic duties.

[Jefft72]

I have a dual TDS meter on my RO unit. One side reads TDS before the DI and the other side reads TDS after DI. I regularly use RO water to refill 3 liter water bottles to use in baby bottles. I know that water is nice and clean.

Dual TDS meter was a great addition to the RO unit for sure. I might pick up a hand held one of these days just to double check.

[shilala]

That fan is just one single fan. My computer tower had two in the top. I converted it to use dual psu's, so I had to take the back one out.
My RO unit has a single tds meter that shows tds in and out. It's a nice touch. Being that it's mounted in the basement rafters, the hand meters are much more handy. :)

[shilala]

Lisa and I went to the Frag Swap yesterday, we did real well. We got an 8" two pound Maxima clam for 80 bucks. I couldn't believe it. I picked about eight big hermits last night while I was diving in the tank, that should help keep her alive.
I got a star for my Harlequin Shrimp. The female attacked it before I could even set it on the bottom. They're nuts. :)
I have to move a lot of rock today and I'd like to buy a little more before I start setting frags. I need to clean out a bunch more xenia and a huge field of polyps. That'll be a pain, but it needs done.
Odd thing happened overnight. My cleaner shrimp and blood shrimp traded homes on opposite ends of the tank. I have no idea why. I moved some stuff, but not enough to disrupt either's home. Apparently I'm wrong about that last part. :)

[jluck]

Lisa and I went to the Frag Swap yesterday, we did real well. We got an 8" two pound Maxima clam for 80 bucks. I couldn't believe it. I picked about eight big hermits last night while I was diving in the tank, that should help keep her alive.
I got a star for my Harlequin Shrimp. The female attacked it before I could even set it on the bottom. They're nuts. :)
I have to move a lot of rock today and I'd like to buy a little more before I start setting frags. I need to clean out a bunch more xenia and a huge field of polyps. That'll be a pain, but it needs done.
Odd thing happened overnight. My cleaner shrimp and blood shrimp traded homes on opposite ends of the tank. I have no idea why. I moved some stuff, but not enough to disrupt either's home. Apparently I'm wrong about that last part. :)

Scott...I want to see your clam! Doesen't that sound wrong! I have been slapped for asking people that in the past.
Anyways....let's see some updated pics of these tanks guys.

[shilala]

I'll take some pics when I get things put together. :tu

[Malazan]

I wouldn't mind having a fish tank, but living on a third story apt. might get dicey with the weight

[shilala]

John, they make little biocubes. I know they get down to as low as 12 gallons. There's nothing you can do in a big tank that you can't do in a biocube and they come fully outfitted, ready to go.
They're really very cool and you can find them for a song on Craigslist. :tu

[Chainsaw13]

Damn you Scott, there's a 14gal bio cube in my area for a decent price. Unfortunately I travel too much to get into this hobby. Like you, I'm too anal about this type do thing and could no way trust anyone else to watch it while I'm away.

[Jefft72]

Wow, that is a great price for such a good sized Maxima! Did you feel guilty when you left :)

... 8" two pound Maxima clam for 80 bucks. I couldn't believe it. ....

I consider myself lucky for never buying xenia. I saw what it was capable of in a buddy's tank. I do have Anthellia, but it is isolated on its own rock, however I have found a stalk here and there popping up. It's not nearly as aggressive as xenia though. Good luck on thinning it out.

I made the decision to keep the tank going, but now I need to source T5 parts (endcaps and reflectors) on the secondary market. Those things are just too danged expensive to purchase brand new. Bulbs will be purchased new. I made a new 15g batch of saltwater and will do a water change either today or tomorrow. Next will be cleaning up some of the bubble algae, or I might buy an emerald crab to help out.

[shilala]

Jeff, the guy had a whole bin full. Fortunately we got there early and got the pick of the litter. He sources them all from one place and was going on about getting some black Maxima's. I paid 50-75 for the last two I fed to my hermits.
So far I picked 9 big hermits out and gave them the toilet ride. I'll continue picking them out till they're a distant memory.
I don't have any trouble culling back the xenia, it's easy. I'll be tearing up another giant wad today. I let it grow on top under the splash zone of an over-the-back filter and it scrubs the water. It does a nice job of it.
I picked up another species for the other side so I can fire up that over the back again.

Good luck on sourcing the parts. Before you go crazy, take a look at t5 hoods at Foster and Smith. With all you have to do, you may be able to sell all your parts and come out ahead with a brand new hood and bulbs. :tu

If emerald crabs will clean up that bubble, I'd grab one in a hurry. I'd clean, then do the water change, then get an emerald, in that order.

I'm going to start culling corals right now. I'll get a pic before I start. :tu

[shilala]

Here's a couple pics. I just turned the lights on so stuff is still puckered up. It just had the room light up till a second ago.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/554c7b0a.jpg

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/2dce45e9.jpg

[Jefft72]

That is good advice on the cleaning before water change. I will make sure and do that. Need to wash my dirty filter socks also as I have been slacking. I have a fresh one on there now, but it won't take long for it to dirty up.

I have had luck in the past with emerald crabs eradicating bubble algae, but I have also had one that didn't touch it. They are well advertised as eating it, but of course it's not a guarantee. They look cool though and the kids like looking for the crab.

That's a great looking tank! Packed to the gills for sure with coral! Awesome clam too. The wife has been wanting a clam for some time now. Once I get my lighting situation resolved then we will look at picking up a clam or two.

[shilala]

Maybe get a pair of Emeralds, Jeff? They might battle it out. Once they clean house you can always get rid of them, or just keep one. I never see them after they're in the tank.

I try to make my tank look just like a natural coral wall in the ocean so that I can appreciate it. It's like diving every day at my desk. :)

I just picked up some more rock so I can finish up what I want to do with the tank. I'm going to start culling back xenia and polyps right now. It'll keep me busy for a few hours, at least.

[Blak Smyth]

Looks awesome Scott!!!

[Jefft72]

Yea, I plan to get a pair of emeralds and if they both stick around then that is great. There should be plenty of room for both in there.

We have scaped our rock work to have a more open feel to it with the hopes that one day there will be plenty of SPS filling the space along with swimming space for fish.

I can't dive as much as I would like, so the tank does offer a nice escape. We picked up a 14g biocube over xmas to setup in the kids' room. I found a leak when I set it up initially and still need to correct that. It will be a softy tank with 1 or 2 fish and inverts. As long as they can keep their hands and other objects out of the tank it should all be good.

[shilala]

I'd be more afraid of them leaving it standing upright. :)
My kids could screw up an anvil with a rubber mallet.

[Malazan]

John, they make little biocubes. I know they get down to as low as 12 gallons. There's nothing you can do in a big tank that you can't do in a biocube and they come fully outfitted, ready to go.
They're really very cool and you can find them for a song on Craigslist. :tu



What is a good place to check those out? Other than Craigslist. Are there any good Online dealers?

[Jefft72]

John, Several online dealers that are well established are MarineDepot and drsfostersmith.

You can search online for pricing to compare, but if you can get into a store to check one out that would be even better just so you can get eyes on it if you are new to biocubes or aquariums in general.

Depending on your location finding a local fish store would be beneficial so that you can discuss with them what you are looking to do. They can give you guidance and if they are good they won't try to sell you everything in the store (I know this that 'good' is hard to judge without having some history).

[Wolfgang]

Im finally drawing up my new tank. I just started working for a custom acrylic tank manufacturer so the sky is the limit now. Ill hopefully get something drawn up in the next couple weeks. WOO!

[Jefft72]

Wolfgang,
Good luck with the project! Sounds like a great opportunity to get in on designing and building your own aquarium. Not to mention all the other cool stuff that you can build working in an acrylic shop (frag racks, refugium, sump, etc).

Im finally drawing up my new tank. I just started working for a custom acrylic tank manufacturer so the sky is the limit now. Ill hopefully get something drawn up in the next couple weeks. WOO!

[Jefft72]

On a positive note, I have made the commitment to keep our reef tank and have already procured 8 48" T5 reflectors along with a couple more Icecap 660 ballasts to run the whole get up. Maybe this weekend I can build an aluminum frame assembly to mount all the lights. I still need to buy endcaps and bulbs before I get to wire it all up.

Since my last water change my corals definitely seem like they have a bit more life in them with apparent growth around the rims of the hard plating corals and new branch buds on the branching type corals.

[Wolfgang]

Im actually in the process of drawing up a frag rack to make out of all our scrap acrylic. If you are looking for one let me know ill be looking for testers.

What size would be preferable?

I built a beer mug today.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/305745_519438330904_164300813_30496058_104665856_n .jpg

[Jefft72]

Sweet project there!

We had 'built' some frag racks out of acrylic at a club meeting a while back. They had cut everything to size and drilled it prior to the members arriving. Once we arrived at the shop we got to bend and then sand and polish the acrylic with a torch. Pretty simple and I still have yet to buy some magnets to use it properly.

Dimensions are roughly 8"x 3.5" and has 15 holes. But I do love a good corner rack that has a recessed place to inset a rubber coated magnet. 6x6 in a triangle shape or something that looks like a baseball home plate would be nice. Plenty of holes spaced evenly and the there would be space for 4 magnets to hold the weight.

I need to suck it up and order some good rubber coated neo magnets so I can finally mount this frag rack.

[Wolfgang]

Sweet project there!

We had 'built' some frag racks out of acrylic at a club meeting a while back. They had cut everything to size and drilled it prior to the members arriving. Once we arrived at the shop we got to bend and then sand and polish the acrylic with a torch. Pretty simple and I still have yet to buy some magnets to use it properly.

Dimensions are roughly 8"x 3.5" and has 15 holes. But I do love a good corner rack that has a recessed place to inset a rubber coated magnet. 6x6 in a triangle shape or something that looks like a baseball home plate would be nice. Plenty of holes spaced evenly and the there would be space for 4 magnets to hold the weight.

I need to suck it up and order some good rubber coated neo magnets so I can finally mount this frag rack.

Ceramic coated magnets work fine as well. Thats what my current fragrack has on it.

Ill draw something up on monday.

[shilala]

I fed my tank last night and turned the pumps off as I always do. I didn't turn them back on and created the perfect storm, even though I had my diatom filter on the tank.
I killed at least one cleaner shrimp and two fish. The blood shrimp, my favorite, is hanging on by a thread. I don't expect him to make it.
I'm sure out yellow tang is dead, he was big, he couldn't have made it.
All the corals are fine. I'll reassess when the lights come on and I start pulling out the dead stuff.
Stupidity definately comes at a cost.

[LostAbbott]

Wow Scott that is rough, I am sorry to hear. Sounds like an easy mistake to make... hope your one shrimp left makes it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[shilala]

I lost a firefish goby and, I'm assuming, both my harlequin shrimp. I only recovered one, haven't found the other yet. I can't get the yellow tang dug out from behind the rock wall, I'll have to wait for him to rise.
What a morning. I don't think I could possibly be more bummed out. It's like my dog got run over by a car, and it's never bothered me when I lose fish.

[Jefft72]

Wow Scott, sorry to hear about the losses. That is definitely tragic and unfortunate. I have the same fears each time I feed the tank and unplug the main pump. One day I will get a proper controller, but for now I just have to rely upon myself to remember to plug it back in.

There are some inexpensive controllers on the market that would do the basic jobs of main pump, lights and temp control. A controller will probably be my next big purchase....some way down the road.

[shilala]

I actually have all my stuff on timers so everything will come back on. I over-rode that because I'm an idiot. I don't like to use my timer controllers because then I have to remember to reset my wave-maker.
Heck of it is, now that I'm thinking about it, the wavemaker will just default to a different pattern when it comes back on, which doesn't really make a difference.
So I'm actually extra stupid.

To be honest, I haven't gained much faith in my timer controllers because the first two I got were bad. I haven't taken the time to set the new ones up properly because I've been just shutting everything down. I just created a bad habit. It took a big problem to teach me a lesson.

[Jefft72]

Unfortunately that's they way most of us learn lessons. Sucks that it had to come at the loss of your fish. I recently lost one of my clowns for reasons unknown to me. It was the smaller of the pair. One night I was feeding and all was good and the next I found it on the sand bed as snail food. All other inhabitants are doing great.

Time for you to choose some fish to replace?

[shilala]

Yup, I'm gonna have to go fish shopping.
Fortunately there's nothing left in there that'll cause a problem with adding fish.
All that's left are a pair of clowns, a blue damsel and a pajama cardinal.
I need a bunch of snails anyways, I'll try to find a place that's close to Cleveland so I can overnight.
I'll probably have to go with Foster and Smith to replace my Harlequin shrimp, I'd imagine.

[Jefft72]

Scott, for snails I would take a look at Reefs2Go. Specifically their sale going on now (http://www.reefs2go.com/product/INV_ALGAECREW/Live-Saltwater-Algae-Eating-Crew.html)

They also stock harlequin shrimp. Bundle it with the saltwater algae crew linked above for free shipping on the whole she-bang.

[shilala]

Scott, for snails I would take a look at Reefs2Go. Specifically their sale going on now (http://www.reefs2go.com/product/INV_ALGAECREW/Live-Saltwater-Algae-Eating-Crew.html)

They also stock harlequin shrimp. Bundle it with the saltwater algae crew linked above for free shipping on the whole she-bang.
That's a good deal.
The only problem is that they don't sell their Harlequins in pairs. The whole fun of having them is to watch them pair up, hang out, feed each other, hunt together, that whole thing.
It does look like they're worth looking into, anyways.
Thanks, Jeff!!! :tu

[shilala]

I went with reefs2go, the free shipping didn't fly. I did get a pretty good break on shipping, though.

I decided to do something a little different. I went with some fish that will develop shoals, just like on the reef. 8 green chromis, 3 bangaii cardinals, and 4 pajama cardinals. I got a pair of harlequin shrimp, a couple peppermint shrimp, a firefish goby, a flame angel, a coral banded shrimp, a tiger conch and a bunch of snails.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out. I'd like a bit more color from the fish, but I'm far more interested in watching them school.

reefs2go is on the ball, they're supposed to ship tomorrow. I ordered all this stuff early Monday. I only got part of my order from them, the rest was from Aquatic Connection. I haven't even gotten shipping confirmation from AC yet.
They ganked me for $60 shipping. If they can't get the stuff to me, I'll cancel that order and go with someone who can. I sense they'll pull a "send me 1/2 the stuff" deal like Foster and Smith does. So far I'm not real confident in them, and I paid top buck.

[BC-Axeman]

I'm having some sort of crash. I lost a mounding Porites and a pineapple type hard coral, both very large and old. All the softies are doing fine, if not too well. Fish, mollusks and crusties are ok. Water tests fine. Water change had no effect. Lamps are about 6 mos. old. All the filtration stuff is working. Maybe a disease got them.

[shilala]

They didn't get too hot, did they? I don't know if you guys are having an unseasonably hot spell like we did, or did recently, but I had to watch my tank and open the lids because it was getting wicked hot in here and the air conditioning wasn't on.
That's just a wild-ass guess, I thought maybe it hadn't crossed your mind.

[BC-Axeman]

We haven't had a hot spell in two and a half years. Tomatoes don't like that very much. Plus, I have a chiller. The salt level was down between changes. Maybe they got damaged unrecoverably.

[Jefft72]

Bummer to hear about the colonies Axeman. You mentioned that the water tests fine, but did you check ph?

You mentioned that the salt level was down between changes. Do you mean that your salinity was low prior to the water change? How low is low and how much water did you change?

[BC-Axeman]

Ya know, come to think of it, I didn't check ph. The salinity was low because of my protein skimmer works so well and me adding RO/DI water. I change 20 gals every 4 or 5 mos.

[shilala]

My tank is a 90 gallon and I change 20-30 gallons about every 6 weeks. I can draw that much since I added the 25 gallon receiver tank to my RODI. I need to take the sink spout off my RODI and change filters before my next water change, but I just did one after reigning death on my tank. I'll let my new critters settle in before I do another change, it'll be at least a couple weeks.
I don't have a refugium, so I really rely on good water and good salt to keep my nerves from fraying. :)

[Blak Smyth]

thought you guys might appreciate this:

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1nm5knBMu1qfjjglo1_r1_500.gif