The Official Asylum Reef Tank Thread

[BC-Axeman]

My clowns spawned again and I almost missed it as I can barely see into my tank. I haven't had time to do a major clean for a while. The hard to clean stuff is starting to build up. I can look forward to the four hour hard job of getting it clean.

[darb85]

my clowns just spawned yesterday, much to the delight of my cleaner shrimp and coral beauty

[shilala]

my clowns just spawned yesterday, much to the delight of my cleaner shrimp and coral beauty
MMMMmmmm.:)

[BC-Axeman]

Mine protected their eggs viciously until they hatched, then they completely lost interest. Everything else in the tank would eat the fry. If you can figure out when they will hatch you can go to the tank just after dark and shine a light in a top corner and scoop the fry out. The have to be fed live microscopic stuff for a while. If they get in the overflow and make it to the refugium then they have a very slim chance of surviving in my system, in the main tank they have zero chance.

[darb85]

Just upgraded to a 125:banger its about half full of water right now :D waiting on plumbng to fill her up.

[BC-Axeman]

My Maxima clam just died. Maybe of old age. Maybe the Xenia growing on it toxified it. It was about 7 years old and made it through a few tank crashes. Everything else is fine. ???

[BC-Axeman]

Just upgraded to a 125:banger its about half full of water right now :D waiting on plumbng to fill her up.
:np

[darb85]

http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/46050/2653662410084512725S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2653662410084512725pLvaBH):banger

took the shots with too fast ISO so lots of noise, but Ill have more soon!

[shilala]

I finally got a pic of the new 90 gallon tank. I'm uploading a video, too.
Here she is...

http://home.comcast.net/~shilala/fishes22.jpg

[shilala]

Here's a video of the new tank. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNGWoMlby_0)

[Blueface]

I finally got a pic of the new 90 gallon tank. I'm uploading a video, too.
Here she is...

http://home.comcast.net/~shilala/fishes22.jpg

Sweet!
That is nice Scott.

Good luck with that Rock Beauty.
I call them "dispose-a-fish".:r
The are so, so tough to have them adapt to captivity.
I see them all the time in the wild when I have gone diving but heck if I have ever had one more than 6 months.

[BC-Axeman]

I love the Sailfin tang. Mine has a personality. It pays attention to what is going on outside the tank.
I can't even see inside my tank right now. I think I'll go clean it...

[shilala]

Sweet!
That is nice Scott.

Good luck with that Rock Beauty.
I call them "dispose-a-fish".:r
The are so, so tough to have them adapt to captivity.
I see them all the time in the wild when I have gone diving but heck if I have ever had one more than 6 months.
Which one is the rock beauty, Carlos?
I've been killing fish for years, it really doesn't phase me anymore. :)

[Blueface]

Which one is the rock beauty, Carlos?
I've been killing fish for years, it really doesn't phase me anymore. :)

The yellow and black Angel.

[Wolfgang]

Just set up my little 24 gallon again. Its looking good so far.

[shilala]

The yellow and black Angel.

It's an old girl, she was in the kid's tank for a couple years. She has ich bad. I have to start medicating the tank in the next couple days. I'm not looking forward to it. Everyone else is doing better, but she isn't. Good eater, though. I may just keep waiting it out. If I could catch her, I'd just dip her and set her loose.

[shilala]

It's nice to see our fishtank thread revived. I sure hope some other brothers join in. :tu

[Blueface]

It's an old girl, she was in the kid's tank for a couple years. She has ich bad. I have to start medicating the tank in the next couple days. I'm not looking forward to it. Everyone else is doing better, but she isn't. Good eater, though. I may just keep waiting it out. If I could catch her, I'd just dip her and set her loose.

Wow!
That is a record for a Rock Beauty.
They are very finicky sponge eaters that just gradually starve in captivity as they never really take to the foods we give them.

Scott, diseases and parasites was my thing.
As far as the ick, on a reef, that goes hand in hand. Taking that fish out and dipping it will help relieve it of the cysts on his body but the moment he is back in the tank, all the larvea free swimming from when they bust up in the sand and go looking for a host will end up on him again. Each cyst that drops off him (the little salt you see on him) will eventually release about a 1,000 larvea looking for a new host and the cycle starts all over again. The ones that find a host eventually develop into the ones you see on his body. The ones that don't find a host right away, die quite quickly.
Given only live rock in there from what I recall seeing in the photo, I would lower salinity and raise the temperature.
Lower your salinity to around .012. Sounds crazy but trust me, won't hurt the fish at all. Long term studies have revealed they can be fine two years later at that level. That helps the cysts not reproduce as much and combined with the higher temperature, causes their life cycle to speed up considerably. I have done this salinity level with many fish and tanks worth thousands of dollars a fish and have lost none to it.
Crank the temperature to 82 and if still an issue a few days post lowering salinity and raising the temp, increase a couple of notches to 84. Make sure they have plenty of oxygen which will be the concern as at higher temps, it is much less available to them.

[Blueface]

BTW,
Some fish can fight it well and in time, it all goes away.
Some fish need lots of manual help.

When you see the cysts on them, that is because their tolerance to fight is down or gone. When their slime coats are fine, no ich will affect them as the larvea will not be able to penetrate the coat to feed and grow into a new cysts. That is why some fish just don't seem to get it or if they do, it eventually goes away after only minimal amounts.
When their immunity is down, the slime coat does not produce as much and hence the parasites can multiply.
Their slime coats also serve another function most don't know. It helps filter salt, along with their organs (kidney). Salt water fish filter the salt via their organs and slime coat.
When they are stressed and infested, they stress yet more and produce yet less slime coat. Eventually, the gills get attacked very badly and they suffocate.

So......now go back to the salinity. You lower it, it helps them have to filter it less. Their bodies don't need to stress more by not only trying to filter all that salt via organs only and at the same time, you eliminate the cause (the parasites blow up in fresh water).

[shilala]

Wow!
That is a record for a Rock Beauty.
They are very finicky sponge eaters that just gradually starve in captivity as they never really take to the foods we give them.

Scott, diseases and parasites was my thing.
As far as the ick, on a reef, that goes hand in hand. Taking that fish out and dipping it will help relieve it of the cysts on his body but the moment he is back in the tank, all the larvea free swimming from when they bust up in the sand and go looking for a host will end up on him again. Each cyst that drops off him (the little salt you see on him) will eventually release about a 1,000 larvea looking for a new host and the cycle starts all over again. The ones that find a host eventually develop into the ones you see on his body. The ones that don't find a host right away, die quite quickly.
Given only live rock in there from what I recall seeing in the photo, I would lower salinity and raise the temperature.
Lower your salinity to around .012. Sounds crazy but trust me, won't hurt the fish at all. Long term studies have revealed they can be fine two years later at that level. That helps the cysts not reproduce as much and combined with the higher temperature, causes their life cycle to speed up considerably. I have done this salinity level with many fish and tanks worth thousands of dollars a fish and have lost none to it.
Crank the temperature to 82 and if still an issue a few days post lowering salinity and raising the temp, increase a couple of notches to 84. Make sure they have plenty of oxygen which will be the concern as at higher temps, it is much less available to them.

Thank you, my friend. Consider it done.
She is an awesome eater. Loves brown algae and pellets. She's a big fat pig. I just fed her as I was typing, and she's eating everything she can get her lips on.
I was watching her today and she's not even itching. Usually they go nuts when they get ich. :confused:
I don't think it's going to be hard to manage. My salinity is already very low for the little coral I do have. I have lots of sponges growing, too, she just can't get to them. I hid them on purpose till they can grow out from the cracks in the rock. :tu

[Blueface]

Thank you, my friend. Consider it done.
She is an awesome eater. Loves brown algae and pellets. She's a big fat pig. I just fed her as I was typing, and she's eating everything she can get her lips on.
I was watching her today and she's not even itching. Usually they go nuts when they get ich. :confused:
I don't think it's going to be hard to manage. My salinity is already very low for the little coral I do have. I have lots of sponges growing, too, she just can't get to them. I hid them on purpose till they can grow out from the cracks in the rock. :tu

Then based on this, go ahead and just crank up your temperature. That stuff will soon cycle out of there.
Trick is to make sure you keep the temperature high for weeks post when you see the last signs of cyst.
They can stay embedded in your sand for three to four weeks and start all over again.
By keeping the temperature up about a month, that should cover you from a new outburst.
When you buy new fish.........................QUARANTINE!!!!, for about a month usually, in copper, after a freshwater dip with formalyn.

[shilala]

My salt is up around .025 right now, Carlos. I'll have to swap out a couple buckets of water in the morning.
She's really not in bad shape at all. I should probably not screw with it real fast. I'll bring the temperature up slowly and lower the salinity slowly. I need some water changes anyways, so I'll start making RO water in earnest.

[Wolfgang]

the hypo salinity should do the trick. Cranking temperature in the tank isnt shown to help mush with marine ich. Freshwater raising the temp works winders though.

[Wolfgang]

You should be aiming between .013 and .017. for true hypo treatment.

[Blueface]

My salt is up around .025 right now, Carlos. I'll have to swap out a couple buckets of water in the morning.
She's really not in bad shape at all. I should probably not screw with it real fast. I'll bring the temperature up slowly and lower the salinity slowly. I need some water changes anyways, so I'll start making RO water in earnest.

.025 is too high for what you have.
Fear not about slow transition. I have taken them down in one water change. Does not hurt them. In fact, I have often times taken a fish out of one environment, into the other, without any acclimation. My son's shop did it all the time also.

the hypo salinity should do the trick. Cranking temperature in the tank isnt shown to help mush with marine ich. Freshwater raising the temp works winders though.

Everything I have read indicates both salt water and fresh water ich are affected by temperature. Lower extends life cycle while higher temperature speeds it up. I have never done temperature alone or salinity alone so can't really tell if one is better than the other. However, note that most outbreaks occur when heaters go bad and temperature drops rapidly. The other outbreaks occur when introducing infected fish. Conversely, high temperature must have an effect also.

You should be aiming between .013 and .017. for true hypo treatment.

An oceanic institute published a study with a large Angel where he was kept at .012 for well over two years with no issues. While .013 to .017 may do it, the lower you go, the faster the fresh water mixture penetrates and blows up the cysts. My tank runs at around .016 to .017 year round. Note I have seen many outbreaks on folks around .017 so I won't therefore trust that as a safe level for no ich. Saltwater ich cannot survive in fresh water but it is due to their single cell composition blowing up. The sooner you can get those critters off their bodies, the better the survival rate and better chance of not contracting bacterial infections. Sometimes the latter sets in and kills them before the ich suffocates them.

[Wolfgang]

I agree Carlos. It becomes tougher when there are corals in the tank. They are not too fond of the lowered SG.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

[shilala]

Thanks to both of you guys. :tu
Being as the heat ain't gonna hurt a thing, I'm going to close up the lids and let the tank warm naturally. It'll be like soup in no time. I do need to go get a decent thermometer though.
I'm going to start bringing down the salinity tomorrow. I can only pull it down ten gallons at a time because my RO unit is so slow.
I'm going to drop a bit, so far as salinity goes, but I'm not going to drop it too low. I've been dropping slowly over the last year, coming down from 1.025 to 1.020. (I typo'd that last message, Carlos.)
I'd like to hang around .018 or .019.
Since I've lowered my salinity, my coralline has flourished as well as my critters, bugs, corals, and fish. This outbreak was caused by temperature spikes. I need to cut off the heat run behind the tank. That'll be a pain, so it'll wait till summer.
Thanks again, guys!!!

[Blueface]

I agree Carlos. It becomes tougher when there are corals in the tank. They are not too fond of the lowered SG.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

No doubt.
I noted he had no corals in that picture and threw that idea out as such.
With corals, ich is a whole new world.
I frankly am not too fond of taking a reef with nice corals down too low on salinity.

[shilala]

No doubt.
I noted he had no corals in that picture and threw that idea out as such.
With corals, ich is a whole new world.
I frankly am not too fond of taking a reef with nice corals down too low on salinity.
I have a big field of red ones, Carlos. Good thing I didn't change water yet? I also have some small other corals in different places, as well as sponges, snails, and every other thing you can imagine.
Tons of feathers, and my live rock is stellar, and full of clams and sh!t.

[shilala]

I read the article. Hyposalinity is out, for sure. It'll kill everything I have. :tu

[Wolfgang]

Its a difficult situation Scott. I dealt with this early on in my reef tank. What worked for me. was lowering sal to .017 and leaving it there for many months without adding anythoing at all in that period.

Imagine how pitiful a 90 gallon tank looks with only a tiny maroon clown in it.

If you lose any corals I will gladly send you replacements. (post outbreak)

Before I buy a fish now I ask the store to hold it for a month in their QT system. It costs a little more but no ich since.

[shilala]

Its a difficult situation Scott. I dealt with this early on in my reef tank. What worked for me. was lowering sal to .017 and leaving it there for many months without adding anythoing at all in that period.

Imagine how pitiful a 90 gallon tank looks with only a tiny maroon clown in it.

If you lose any corals I will gladly send you replacements. (post outbreak)

Before I buy a fish now I ask the store to hold it for a month in their QT system. It costs a little more but no ich since.
Thank You, Mark. I'll get this under control in no time. I have medicine and it isn't bad. I'll lower the salinity a tiny bit and start doing water changes. I already brought buckets in, I'll make and replace 20 or 30 gallons tomorrow, depending on what I'll have to do with my medicine.
I'll talk with you about corals later. I'd love to get some more going, but I kill everything. The red stuff is the only thing I've been succesful with so far, and it's growing like wildfire.
My new base rock is getting very purple, too. So I can grow coralline algae really good. My water is decent, but I'd like it even better.

[BC-Axeman]

I've had success fighting ich with garlic, the dry granulated kind. I would just feed it to them like the food. They would eat some and the rest disappeared in the tank. I now have cleaner shrimp in both tanks. I think they keep the ich suppressed.

[Wolfgang]

Some of my Nuclear green Pallys. Just got done fragging. Made five frags of 3-6 polyps each and you cant tell where they came from. Anyone interested in some? PM me.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=5705&d=1269803866

[Wolfgang]

I was bored tonight so I rescaped my tank. :D

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/Newscape.jpg

[Wolfgang]

Water has calmed down and here it is with my clown in front.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/Newaquascape.jpg

[sikk50]

Before my mom killed off my tank when I left for school it use to be my favorite to reaquascape. Every water change and cleanning I'd do it. I think the reason I liked it so much was bc of how pissed of it would make my fish. It really just messed up their day and they'd be incredibly active exploring the new caves.

[Wolfgang]

It also created new territories and kept the peace so to speak. I will probally have to rescape it when i add my next clown or use the jail technique

[shilala]

Guys, I got my ich problem under control. Adjusted my salinity just a tiny bit lower, stabilized the temp, and slowed down feeding dramatically.
My thinking was that with an absense of bottom food, all my critters would eat the bottom bugs and stop the cycle.
So far, so good. :tu
Hang on to some frags for me, Marc. I'd like to try a couple more and see if I can avoid killing them.
The tank looks AWESOME!!! I had to redo the right side of mine cause it caved from someone tunneling. I made it a bit less fragile this time.

[Wolfgang]

Superglue works wonders for stabilizing rocks. I use this kind.

http://graphics.samsclub.com/images/products/0007934030379_L4.jpg

Ill save you some Scott.

[shilala]

Superglue works wonders for stabilizing rocks. I use this kind.

Ill save you some Scott.
I have some, Marc. Just don't like using it on the rocks. I probably would if I could ever get them all the way I like them.
One of my buddies sends me emails that say "move that one rock 2cm to the left". He's watched me fussing with it a number of times. Not many days go by that I'm not wet. :D

[BC-Axeman]

I have rarely and only slightly rearranged my rock. Almost every piece has something on the outside of it that likes where it is.
I hear you, Scott, about the wet arms. If you add it all up I spend like four hours or more a week with my arms in the aquarium. If not then I couldn't see inside. I will have to get an updated picture.
I think I lost my maxima clam due to a malfunctioning heater back in the coldest part of winter. It was about five years old. Our two best fish stores closed, now there is nothing close to me.

[sikk50]

I have some, Marc. Just don't like using it on the rocks. I probably would if I could ever get them all the way I like them.
One of my buddies sends me emails that say "move that one rock 2cm to the left". He's watched me fussing with it a number of times. Not many days go by that I'm not wet. :D

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk215/sikk50/8b6321ee.jpg

[Wolfgang]

It dosent really fuse them together. It just makes the more outrageous things more stable. The rocks can be pulled apart really easily just not under their own weight.

I will be adding a clam shortly. I have my eye on a 3.5" dersea, 3" squamosa, and a 4" maxima at the LFS. Just have to decide which tank.

[OLS]

HAhahah, I KNEW there was a slope that people didn't talk about. That's cause it is the
biggest money-tossing slope that there is.

And I am also afflicted. This is my second tank, and it is an old picture from very early on.
I have replaced half the rock and moved everything 5 times. This is just a 40 with a 25 gal sump.
My old tank was a 110 and a few photos from it's early days are here:
http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic134254.html

I never thought to look and see if there was a reef thread. SHould be, as much disposable as we dispose of.

[OLS]

My salt is up around .025 right now, Carlos. I'll have to swap out a couple buckets of water in the morning.
She's really not in bad shape at all. I should probably not screw with it real fast. I'll bring the temperature up slowly and lower the salinity slowly. I need some water changes anyways, so I'll start making RO water in earnest.
I can also suggest, that if the fish is not flashing, you can leave it alone.
When I have a tang that is getting ich, I do a couple of things. I get some real macroalgae for it to
eat, I let my tank go to **** and try not to put my hands in the water at all, or even go into the
room for that matter. I go in for feeding and that is it. MOST fish can beat the outbreak if they
have less or no stress. That said I lost a Hepatus tang with this method, and I watched a yellow,
pictured above, beat it cold. I find the stress of catching and quarantining fish pushes them over
the edge. Especially given how we have to catch them with all the rock, coral etc. Many die the
first nite of qt.

[Wolfgang]

Added some new coral today.

Tyree Meteor Shower Cyphastrea.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/MeteorShower.jpg

[shilala]

HAhahah, I KNEW there was a slope that people didn't talk about. That's cause it is the
biggest money-tossing slope that there is.

Dood. I LOVE killing fish. It's the best way to rid myself of that cumbersome money. I haven't killed anything in weeks, and it's driving me nuts.
Today I'm fighting brown slime again. I have a branch sponge in there that's breaking down, I need to get it out. I've halted feeding to near nothing, but my skimmers are working overtime. Something could have died in there, I have no way of telling.
Sooo....
I hooked the diatom filter back up and did some scrubbing. I usually let it just burn itself out, but decided to do battle this time. I'm not gonna do much. It'll be gone before I know it.

[Wolfgang]

Picked up some more coral.

Green montipora Cap
Pink Montipora Cap
Blue Stag
Pink Pocillipora
Green Pocillipora
and a Green slimer Acro.

picture coming soon.

[Wolfgang]

Got back from the LFS. I swapped some frags with a friend, then I bought myself a Green slimer acro.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/slimer.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/trade.jpg

Everything is looking happy.

[shilala]

Here's a question you guys may be able to help me with...
I'm having another brown algae bloom. Along with that is lots of green hair algae.
I understand it's from phosphorus spiking. My lights are good and they are on a timer and all that good stuff.
Since I've set up this new tank it went from good, to real bad, then back to crystal clear with no algae, and now it's back again.
Something could have very well died in there, I have no way of knowing. It could have been a shrimp or one of any number of snails, or just some other die-back I can't think of. I run two protein skimmers and both have been pulling stuff out doubletime even though I've taken feeding to almost nothing.

Okay, so here is my question...
I usually just let this stuff go. I clean the glass and prefilters regularly, and I run my diatom filter a lot to pull the junk out of the water.
My thinking is that if I let the algae grow, it will pull the phosphate and nitrogen and fertilizers out of the water and fix it in itself. When I clean, I use the diaton filter to pull that organic matter out of the water.
How long should I let things go before I scrub the rocks and stuff?
I've noticed in the past that when the algae starves out it sluffs off in big chunks. Should I just wait till it starts peeling off itself, and how long does that take?
I know it's an odd question, I hope someone can help. :)
Thanks!!!

[Wolfgang]

Scrubbing the rocks will not likley prevent the algae from coming back. I was in the same situation as you a while ago. My solution was taking the rocks out and blowtorching them untill I was sure every bit of algae root was gone. This is an extreme measure.

The algae will pull nitrates and Po4 out of the water but it will not fix the main source for the Po4. It will keep growing and growing leaving you an unhappy camper. My suggestion would be to pick up a phosphate reactor. Like the MR1 made by nextreef. And run some neozeo media. This will cut out Po4 as well as Nitrates. In my case eliminating the need for water changes for almost a year now.

Next Reef MR1 (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=NX1111&child=NX1111&utm_source=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=NX1111)

NeoZeo (http://www.marinedepot.com/Brightwell_Aquatics_Neo_Zeo_Zeolite_Media_For_Reef _2.2lbs_1000g_Zeolite_Zeolith_Chemical_Filter_Medi a-Brightwell_Aquatics-BW01240-FIFMCHZL-vi.html)

[BC-Axeman]

I scrubbed with a brush and used a net to scoop out the debris. Eventually these blooms seemed to run their course. The tiny snail and tiny star blooms were interesting. I wonder if your diatom filter is contributing. I use only a mat filter on the overflow and the skimmer. No fine filtering at all.

[shilala]

Thanks for the replies, guys.
I cleaned the tank really good yesterday and it looks spectacular this morning. Even the algae among the substrate cleared up. I added some sand and shells from Siesta Key that I had in a big jar, and now my Sargeant major damsel is making a great big nest. He's fanning out the hole and carrying rocks away and dropping them at the rate of about 5 or ten trips a minute. Fun to watch. :)
Lance, I had thought the diatom filter might be adding to the phosphates. It doesn't jive though.
Mark, I have tons of phosphate sponge in my Fluval sump filter, or whatever it's called. I think it's a cannister filter. That initially helped.
With clean water and a clean light and clean glass tops, there's a lot more light. It may just be that my light was so low it caused the bloom. I'd been pretty lazy about taking care of cleaning, so I'm likely the cause.
I'll just keep after it for the next week and see if the algae blooms subside.
Thanks for the help!!! :)

[Wolfgang]

Phosphate pads are only good for a week or so. After that they become nitrate factories by trapping deterius then it decays. Canister filters *usually* are linked with nitrate and phosphate issues. I think Carlos would know more. He was in the aquarium trade for quite a while.

[shilala]

Phosphate pads are only good for a week or so. After that they become nitrate factories by trapping deterius then it decays. Canister filters *usually* are linked with nitrate and phosphate issues. I think Carlos would know more. He was in the aquarium trade for quite a while.
I haven't cleaned that thing out for awhile, either. I should do that today. I can see where the filtered chunkies would rot and cause trouble. The bioballs should have plenty of nitrifying bacteria, as well as my substrate. It wouldn't hurt to get that crap out of it, though. Hopefully I'll quit feeling like crap and I'll get to it today.
Very little green algae is growing, that's a good sign. It's how I guage how fertile the tank is. I'll keep cleaning and hope the bioload goes down. I should do a massive water change but I'm not up to it.
I managed to clean it into "okay for now" mode. I'll put some more time into it as soon as I can. :tu

[BC-Axeman]

My tank exists in perpetual "OK for now" mode. :D

[poker]

Anyone looking for MH lighting? I may have quite a bit of it available shortly.

[Wolfgang]

maybe what are the specs and bulb spectrum?

[poker]

maybe what are the specs and bulb spectrum?

I have to check when I get home. I know I have the bulbs/ballasts/sockets/and maybe reflectors. It was off my 150g reef a few years ago.

[OLS]

more light. It may just be that my light was so low it caused the bloom. Those lamps lose spectrum after 6-8 months, too, and not only do you get an immediate reaction then,
but you get an adverse reaction when you put in the new lamps. I think that's why people
replace perfectly good lamps before their time. Me personally, I'll chance it.

[sikk50]

You need to replace them every 6 months. If you don't your tank starts deteriorating, corals will be less happy and you'll start seeing more algea. Took me a long time to learn that one :(

[Wolfgang]

My tank has decided to spring a leak. YAY!

[shilala]

My lamps aren't even close to six months, so I'm good there. A guy can buy a lumen meter and save a fortune on bulbs, I really should get one. :tu
Sorry about the leak, Mark. I just did that not long ago. Sprung a leak three times before I gave up on that tank altogether. The last one was a monster. Water was shooting ten feet across the room. :)

[Wolfgang]

everything will be moving into a 50 gallon tomorrow. Pictures during the process

[Wolfgang]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/oceanic.jpg

[shilala]

everything will be moving into a 50 gallon tomorrow. Pictures during the process
I sure don't envy you the chore. I have a great big red plastic stock tank that I can move all my stuff into now. It's a lot easier, for sure.

[Wolfgang]

got the light on top.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/50setup.jpg

[Wolfgang]

four hours later and im done.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/rock.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/sand.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/final.jpg

I also moved my little maroon clown into this tank. My larger maroon clown was beating him up.

[OLS]

Took me 2 hours to fall asleep last night...WHY? I'll tell you why. Woke up Sunday am and went to feed
the fish. Every story starts off this way, doesn't it. Anyway, my wavemaker came disconnected from the
glass and fell to the tank bottom where it spent the night blowing all the sand around. It looked like
winter wonderland, everything covered in sand. As I have said many times, why in the HELL did I start up
a tank again? It's because I forgot about stuff like this. Stuff like what to do when you leave for four days
or more. I had gotten so used to not worrying about that crap. After I paid off my truck, I was looking
forward to a year or so of money building up in the bank. I had stopped ordering cigars, I had no car note,
no fish tank, no cigarette habit. WTF happened?
Well it's easy. I went and got a tank.
Then I realized a little late what I was about to do. But hey, I could still put the tank in the closet. No harm no foul.
Then I ordered a light unit. Even then, I could have put it up in the closet. But NOOOoo. I had to order corals.
Then I had to get caught up in the online circus that is super selection, WYSIWYG and free shipping over 100 dollars.

All that crap and I need to get two tires on the front of the truck and until I do I am going to go slowly
crazy. I am not broke, just pissed. I should have thousands of dollars built up over the time I have been
out from under the car note. Instead, I have a new grill, a new fish tank, some Edicion Limitadas in bulk.
Need I freaking go on?
;s;s;s

[shilala]

Good story, Brad. I said it a little while ago, this fish tank is a great way to free myself of that cumbersome money. I think it's even better than cigars.
Every day is a new pain in the ass. I was looking at all the green stuff on my glass deciding whether to clean it again or just let it go. I'm honestly sick of messing with it. It even crossed my mind this weekend, for the first time in 14 years, to do away with it altogether.
I thought, "it's brand new stuff, I have a few thousand bucks in it, I should be able to get at least a hundred bucks for all of it. " :)
Then I decided to just suffer on.

[BC-Axeman]

Wow! You guys. I just spent close to $200 on new lamps for all my tanks. Once a year. Otherwise it's just food. Like I said before, I spend about four hours a week with my hands in the water but I could let it go natural for a few weeks and I would just end up with a lot more work to do later. Oh, and there's the electric bill.
Once the system gets stable it takes a lot to knock it out of balance. I don't attach anything on the inside of my tanks, I find a way to hang things like wavemakers. Still, a little sand all over everything just needs to be blown back off, maybe with the same wavemaker. Should be no damage.

[OLS]

I thought, "it's brand new stuff, I have a few thousand bucks in it, I should be able to get at least a hundred bucks for all of it. " :)
Then I decided to just suffer on.
I remember when we all first realized our 5000 dollar computer was really a 2 thousand dollar computer
and that our 3000 dollar computer was really a 500 dollar computer. Same Deal.

As for the tank walls, I scrape the front only. I am combatting a flow (and thus a hair algae problem)
exacerbated by too much intense light per day. But I need to feed the fish when I leave the house at
6:30 am and I need time with them in the evening and turn it off at 6:30 pm, and I think that light,
coupled with too much coral food, coupled with flow issues led to the prob. Once I fixed the 'wave
maker that fell to earth' problem, I also fixed my flow issues while I was in there. So I should be good
for now. I love my tank, but like I said, I could stand to never have started it.
Ball and chain comes to mind, and it shouldn't.

[poker]

I remember when we all first realized our 5000 dollar computer was really a 2 thousand dollar computer
and that our 3000 dollar computer was really a 500 dollar computer. Same Deal.

As for the tank walls, I scrape the front only. I am combatting a flow (and thus a hair algae problem)
exacerbated by too much intense light per day. But I need to feed the fish when I leave the house at
6:30 am and I need time with them in the evening and turn it off at 6:30 pm, and I think that light,
coupled with too much coral food, coupled with flow issues led to the prob. Once I fixed the 'wave
maker that fell to earth' problem, I also fixed my flow issues while I was in there. So I should be good
for now. I love my tank, but like I said, I could stand to never have started it.
Ball and chain comes to mind, and it shouldn't.

I remember thinking that before I made the decision to tear down my 125G.

Between the hours and hours of work per week on it, the increased electrical bill for all the goodies (chiller, MH & HO lighting, 2 large Iwaki pumps, etc), the normal reef tank issues like algae blooms, the cost of all the additives, and the minimal free time I had due to a new job, it only made sense in my case to get out of the hobby years ago.

[shilala]

I remember when we all first realized our 5000 dollar computer was really a 2 thousand dollar computer
and that our 3000 dollar computer was really a 500 dollar computer. Same Deal.

As for the tank walls, I scrape the front only. I am combatting a flow (and thus a hair algae problem)
exacerbated by too much intense light per day. But I need to feed the fish when I leave the house at
6:30 am and I need time with them in the evening and turn it off at 6:30 pm, and I think that light,
coupled with too much coral food, coupled with flow issues led to the prob. Once I fixed the 'wave
maker that fell to earth' problem, I also fixed my flow issues while I was in there. So I should be good
for now. I love my tank, but like I said, I could stand to never have started it.
Ball and chain comes to mind, and it shouldn't.
Brad, my problem is that I'm too insistant that it's perfect and crystal clear. If I'd just let it be, I'd be far better off.
It's a new tank and it's going to take time before it settles. I just added a bunch of new rock in January or February, too. I cured it for a couple weeks, but the deep die-back is going to take time to come out. That's where the water changes would help, and I don't change all that much.
If I did a 30 gallon (1/3) change, it'd help, I'm sure.
I just need to be patient and let it get settled in.
I'm finally happy with the way everything looks, so I can leave it be for awhile now. I'm going to give the glass a cleaning now and then let her be. Everything else is cleaned and in order, the brown algae is gone, and the green hair has slowed dramitically. I'm pleased with it's progress, for sure. :tu

[Ahbroody]

new baby I just picked up.
Now got to decide what color to stain it and lighting. Likely ging t5s
Already got a pair of chrysogasters my buddy has had at his shop for me for 1 year so those are my fish. No sump this time. After 2 water issus with a sump my wife has banned them from the home. Going to run 2 hang on skimmers. Will post progress picks. going to take a few weeks to move set up tank and move stuff.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/ahbroody/DSC_0267.jpg
No idea how many gallons likely somewhere in the 40 range. Custom built tank and stand/ canopy.

24 x 24 x13 only 33ish gallons just going to run clowns and some Zoos and nems under t5s should be fine at only 13 inches deep.

[BC-Axeman]

My nano is about half that and does fine with similar critters and cf lighting and a hang on skimmer.

[Ahbroody]

Well going to stain it tonight it appears. Wife picked the color she wants then threw me a curve. Apparently its going in the boys room. She wants more space in the living room. Look well atleast I am keeping a tank she wanted me to shut it down originally. Kind of excited.

Still debating white sandbed, black sandbed, or bare bottom. As others have experienced i have had issues with pumps and sandbeds. If I go sandbed its going to be very shallow.

[Wolfgang]

There is a type of "sand" that isnt super fine. Its about 1mm in diameter and it EXTREMELY east to care for. I love the stuff. Thats whats in my tank further up in on this page.

[Barteur]

Good story, Brad. I said it a little while ago, this fish tank is a great way to free myself of that cumbersome money. I think it's even better than cigars.
Every day is a new pain in the ass. I was looking at all the green stuff on my glass deciding whether to clean it again or just let it go. I'm honestly sick of messing with it. It even crossed my mind this weekend, for the first time in 14 years, to do away with it altogether.
I thought, "it's brand new stuff, I have a few thousand bucks in it, I should be able to get at least a hundred bucks for all of it. " :)
Then I decided to just suffer on.

Scott, this is how you ended up with my atlas for marine fish...;)

I Did this couple of years ago (sold everyhing for peannuts), now I regret it, hang in there it will pass these ecosystems, they need you.

[shilala]

Scott, this is how you ended up with my atlas for marine fish...;)

I Did this couple of years ago (sold everyhing for peannuts), now I regret it, hang in there it will pass these ecosystems, they need you.
I decided to stick it out, Eric.
I've been away for the best part of two weeks. When I came home, two fish and my last blob of coral were dead. I was thrilled.
I have a huge red algae bloom going, I've hooked up my diatom filter, and I've started scraping glass.
I just got home from running around and now I'm going to clean filters and skimmers. Then I think I'll take the lights off and hold my head under water till I drown. :D

[Ahbroody]

Stained and sealed.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/ahbroody/9bc3a7dc.jpg

[OLS]

I am dealing with a first....Aiptasia. I read warnings of a type of live rock having aiptasia problems, and
I just ignored them. To my own peril it seems. They are sprouting up everywhere and apparently not all
peppermint shrimp will eat them. So I am guessing Joe's Juice is next. But they went from being on the rocks to
being all up in various corals. Not happy.

[BC-Axeman]

There are two different kinds of pest anemones. Aiptasia are translucent, fast and fragile, with long delicate tentacles. Majano are more opaque, slow and more stubby and cylindrical.
Peppermint shrimp will not eat majano. Joe's juice has a low kill rate. I pick them out by hand and just hope to keep the population in control. Aiptasia, by comparison, are easy to kill, they are just hard to completely eliminate. Peppermint shrimp only eat the smaller ones.

[Wolfgang]

use aptasia X it makes the guys implode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo3DZYdAD2Y&feature=related

[Blueface]

Although delicate to keep, longnose butterfly will do a good job on aptasia.

Get a needle and shoot them with a dosage of calcium, directly into them. That wipes them out the quickest.

On a sad note, over the weekend, lost my friend of nearly 13 years. Had him nearly as long as my dog Champ. He was around 18" long. I figured him to be well over 20 years old when he passed.

He was a very, very, very rare New Caledonia Emperor. Nothing much seems to come from that part of the world any more. What made him unique from New Caledonia was the deepness of the blue color and the streamer on his tail.

Will miss my buddy and his grunting.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/DSC_0167.jpg

[BC-Axeman]

use aptasia X it makes the guys implode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo3DZYdAD2Y&feature=related
Lemon juice, vinegar, kalkwasser, calcium chloride, and almost anything else kills Aiptasia easily. Majano are tough and resilient. Youtube showed someone with a filefish the he says wiped out all his Majano. I think I will try this.

[shilala]

I have to move my tank to Ohio soon. In the middle of the winter, yet. I had thought about giving all my rock and stock to the kid who has a fish store a few miles from home, but when I went by the other day I saw he's closed down.
I guess I'll just haul a bunch of buckets and do the best I can. I'm not looking forward to it at all.

[CigarNut]

I am sorry for your loss -- a lot of my friends used think I was crazy when I told them about hurting over the loss of a fish, but fish do have personalities and if you have them for any length of time it is easy to get attached. If I anthropomorphize more than I should, so what...

Anyway, he was a beautiful fish!Although delicate to keep, longnose butterfly will do a good job on aptasia.

Get a needle and shoot them with a dosage of calcium, directly into them. That wipes them out the quickest.

On a sad note, over the weekend, lost my friend of nearly 13 years. Had him nearly as long as my dog Champ. He was around 18" long. I figured him to be well over 20 years old when he passed.

He was a very, very, very rare New Caledonia Emperor. Nothing much seems to come from that part of the world any more. What made him unique from New Caledonia was the deepness of the blue color and the streamer on his tail.

Will miss my buddy and his grunting.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/DSC_0167.jpg

[BC-Axeman]

I am sorry for your loss -- a lot of my friends used think I was crazy when I told them about hurting over the loss of a fish, but fish do have personalities and if you have them for any length of time it is easy to get attached. If I anthropomorphize more than I should, so what...

Anyway, he was a beautiful fish!
+1 on the sentiment.
My sailfin tang is very smart and has a distinct personality and moods. All the other fish in my tank are very simplistic. We call it "she" even though there is no way to really know just because of her behavior. We would miss her when she goes and probably get another one. We got her when she was an inch and a half triangle. "Penelope". She like me the best.

[shilala]

I got my 90 gallon all set up here in the office, It looks great. :tu
I got some fish, crabs and snails, they're all doing great. I tested my water the other night and it's perfect.
I checked Craigslist and found a guy with some live rock that looks nice. I'm going to go see him and see how it looks. He also has a top skimming protein skimmer I'd like to have, because one of mine finally gave up the ghost.

I miraculously found a brand new Vortex Diatom XL at a fish store the other day. Paid almost 200 bucks for it, but my last one kept me in business for 20 years. 10 bucks a year for crystal clear water ain't a bad deal.
Turns out the factory burned down awhile back, which is why I've had such a hard time finding one. I was surprised how little the design has changed over the years. I suppose if it ain't broke, ya don't fix it. :tu

If I get some new rock, I'll give it time to settle in. After that, I'm going to get rid of my old starfish, Patrick, and start growing corals. Turns out he's the culprit that ate all my frags last time. I just need to find someone who's willing to take him, then get to gathering. I've found tons of guys here in the Cleveland area that keep reefs, and tons of frags are available. I just want to have the tank slap full of rock before I get started.

[E.J.]

Always love looking through this thread....

Impressed with all your set ups....


On a sad note, over the weekend, lost my friend of nearly 13 years. Had him nearly as long as my dog Champ. He was around 18" long. I figured him to be well over 20 years old when he passed.

Will miss my buddy and his grunting.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/DSC_0167.jpg

That is too bad, beautiful fish.....;s

[Wanger]

Haven't gotten back to salt yet, but the wife and I did get a (basic) 55 last month and set it up for freshwater. She wants discus. :D Either way, it's good to at least have a toe in the water again. :)

[shilala]

We've been waiting for our pink spotted watchman goby to come out of hiding.
He did that this morning, he's the featured guest at a hermit crab party.
It's kind of comical. He's a four inch long dead fish with three big crabs hanging on his head. Those three hermits are about the size of jack balls, I didn't even think those little blue legged hermits got that big.
I'm gonna let them party a little bit and then get him out of there. Apparently the eyeballs are the best part. Blech.

[BeerAdvocate]

We've been waiting for our pink spotted watchman goby to come out of hiding.
He did that this morning, he's the featured guest at a hermit crab party.
It's kind of comical. He's a four inch long dead fish with three big crabs hanging on his head. Those three hermits are about the size of jack balls, I didn't even think those little blue legged hermits got that big.
I'm gonna let them party a little bit and then get him out of there. Apparently the eyeballs are the best part. Blech.

:np

[shilala]

:np
I'll text you a video that Lisa just sent to the kids. pm me your number. :)

[BC-Axeman]

I haven't has time to do major cleaning in my tank, so the Xenia and Rhodactis are dividing all over, the weedy Majano anemones are spreading, the faces of the tank have little windows cleaned through so I can see in and the fish are doing just great. When I get home I will have to take a picture so people can see how bad these tanks can get.

[shilala]

Well, another 400 bucks down the tube. :D
I got 50 pounds of live rock that turned out to easily be 100, and it's absolutely gorgeous. Completely full of life. It's covered with mushrooms and other nummies. I also got a bunch of great big corals, hammer, frogspawn, and a big tongue coral, among them. I don't know the rest of the names, but I'll post pics and ask later.
I also got two hydor koralia 1400 gph powerheads (there's 100 bucks right there, I paid 40).
I also got a yellow eyed tang who didn't make it. Suited us fine because we didn't like him. I also got two five gallon buckets full of sand that I desperately needed. It's slap full of big worms, copepods, shrimp and stuff.
I also got a bucket of reef additves and food. A gallon jug of calcium a and b buffer, some reef crystals, some frozen food, garlic extract, lugol's solution, essential elements, iodide, purpleup, strontium and molybdenum, probuffer, liquid calcium, seaweed and some clips.
It appears I am now officially in the coral killing business. :tu
I'll post some pics when I get the rock and corals and powerheads all situated. Everything is in the tank and doing great, I just need to move stuff and get stung some more. (I can't find my neoprene diving gloves, or I'd go ahead and put them on and save some bleeding and burning.)

[BC-Axeman]

It appears I am now officially in the coral killing business. :tu

Welcome back.
All my fishies are doing great but my tank is getting filled with the strongest, toughest inverts. This seems to be a fight between the hairy Rhodactis, the Majano anemones, and the Xenia. There is this one pineapple coral that nothing can get close to which is slowly growing out over it's surroundings. I'll have to get some pictures the next time I'm home and clean the glass enough.

[fissure]

Sounds like some great deals Scott:tu

I'm officially out of the hobby and saving at least $100 on electric/food/salt per month. I miss it a little bit, but not much. Now if I could just get rid of my last setup. Anyone looking for a corner pentagon tank with stand and canopy/lights:D

[BC-Axeman]

Sounds like some great deals Scott:tu

I'm officially out of the hobby and saving at least $100 on electric/food/salt per month. I miss it a little bit, but not much. Now if I could just get rid of my last setup. Anyone looking for a corner pentagon tank with stand and canopy/lights:D
This.:tu

[shilala]

Sounds like some great deals Scott:tu

I'm officially out of the hobby and saving at least $100 on electric/food/salt per month. I miss it a little bit, but not much. Now if I could just get rid of my last setup. Anyone looking for a corner pentagon tank with stand and canopy/lights:D
Here's a pisser, Steve...
I moved this 90 gallon God-forsaken money-pit here from PA because Lisa insisted. I mentioned the other day that I had had a gutful since this last year's disasters (tanks breaking, floods, general misery). 15 years of this stuff has left me out of interest. Turns out she insisted because she thought I loved it. :bh
So, here I am. I can't let it look like hell because I'm not built that way. So I'm going to continue by learning how to kill corals, and spend money at a ridiculously rapid pace.
Here's the thing, though...
There's a large group/organization here in Cleveland that does frag swaps, etc. It's a good base for me to learn from, something I never had before. So I'm going to see about joining, becoming active, making some friends locally, etc. That might salvage this sport for me.
Today's csualty is my chocolate star Patrick. He's outta here. He's the reason I failed my last coral adventure. I had no idea he was a coral eater, but now I know, so he's on Craigslist.

[shilala]

Okay, I joined the reef club. So far, I've met 3 of the members, great guys.
I have procured a bunch of live rock I needed to fill out my tank, and I got a few corals.
I got a bunch of powerheads, just picked up another Koralia 1400 today. I have a wavemaker in the mail.
One of the reef club guys came over and gave me a checklist of stuff to unscrewup in my tank and I've done most. I didn't fix a sand pile because he had me clean my skimmers and I cleaned them so good that they just won't make goo very good. The water is getting bad enough, so I'm not gonna make a bad thing worse.
I stopped feeding for now till the skimmers re-break-in. They should come around in the next day or two, we'll see.
I'm really getting a grip on how to get reef water right and keep it right. These are things I needed to learn. Now if I can apply that knowledge on down to my equipment, I'll be in real good shape. That won't take long at all.
Oh, I'm going to a Frag Swap in Cleveland on Saturday. I should be able to get some cool stuff there, I'm excited about that. :D

[OHRD]

He was the pick of the litter.
My son worked for a major importer at the time and that is where they all came from.
Has been with me over 7 years.
Only thing I dislike is that as they age, they get more grey to them.

There is always a simple fix for aggressive fish that always tames them.
Place them in the tank small and have other, bigger aggressive fish in there with them as well.
My Angels keep him in line.:D
Being in the business for quite some time, designing, installing and maintaining high end tanks, I was lucky to learn lots of tricks on introducing them and compatibility that goes against the norm.

He got aggressive on me years ago and I took care of it.
Stuck him in plastic bottle, with holes in it for water flow and left him in the open overnight.
He was as docile as could be the next day and ever since.;)

Woah! This is the most crazy awesome thread ever! I had no idea there was such a hobby to this. I had fish growing up, had an albino frog, etc, but nothing since. Crazy!!!

How long will the fish you have live? Will you trade/sell them, or keep them till they pass? Can you insure such expensive fish?

[shilala]

How long will the fish you have live? Will you trade/sell them, or keep them till they pass? Can you insure such expensive fish?
Reefkeeping isn't so much about keeping fish, it's more about keeping invertebrates. Corals, "bugs", shrimp, snails, live rock, starfishes, sea cucumbers, sponges, things that live in a reef system. Fish are a part of that system, but only a part.
When corals get too big, you "frag" them, which means you cut off pieces and they turn into new animals. That's how you keep your population under control. You can sell those fragments to other hobbyists.
No, you can't insure the stuff, at least not to my knowledge.

[BC-Axeman]

Well said, Scott.

[md4958]

Can I get the expert opinions on this tank (http://www.redseamax.com/redseamax/250Temp/redseamax/Red_Sea_MAX_HP_130.html)

Its listed locally on Craigslist for $500

[BC-Axeman]

Can I get the expert opinions on this tank (http://www.redseamax.com/redseamax/250Temp/redseamax/Red_Sea_MAX_HP_130.html)

Its listed locally on Craigslist for $500
I like it. I would probably go with only the coarse filter or you will be cleaning it too often. My little tank in the bathroom has been working for maybe 12 years with less gear than that one has.

[Wolfgang]

The RSM is an awesome system. I dont remember what these cost new but $500 seems a bit high. I paid $800 fro my 90 gallon system. I would recommend getting your eyes on it lok everything over make sure the glass/acrylic isnt scratched. One of the biggest things ive seen with these all in one nano tanks is leaking around the bottom seam. This is what mine did.

[BC-Axeman]

Interior scratching of plexiglass isn't that visible when filled with water but looks terrible dry. $500 would not be bad if it came cycled and stocked. Still, you can find great deals all the time from people who are giving up the hobby.

[Wolfgang]

Interior scratching of plexiglass isn't that visible when filled with water but looks terrible dry. $500 would not be bad if it came cycled and stocked. Still, you can find great deals all the time from people who are giving up the hobby.

I believe the RSM is glass though.

[BC-Axeman]

I believe the RSM is glass though.
Yep, so it says. I like that. Easier to scrape the coraline off.

[Wolfgang]

ABSOLUTLEY and you arent afraid to save some time and use a razorblade just remember vertical or horizontal scraping only no diagonals.

Im currently in the early summer algae bloom i get every year. Its the water I use. Only tap water goes into my tank :ss

P.S. I dont recommend anyone to do this. It works for me based on where I live and local water chemistry. The two keys to being successful in this hobby are DO NOT OVERFEED and DO NOT OVERSTOCK. Imagine living with your whole family in a studio apartment.

[md4958]

The RSM is an awesome system. I dont remember what these cost new but $500 seems a bit high. I paid $800 fro my 90 gallon system. I would recommend getting your eyes on it lok everything over make sure the glass/acrylic isnt scratched. One of the biggest things ive seen with these all in one nano tanks is leaking around the bottom seam. This is what mine did.

Some of the pricing I've seen online are in the $750-$800 range. Apparently this was only used for a month before upgrading to a larger tank.
http://hartford.craigslist.org/for/2281123389.html

However, after reading through this thread a bit last night, my dream of owning a saltwater tank has been a bit diminished.

Is it worth the trouble?

[Wolfgang]

That depends on how much you are willing to work and what you plan to keep. If you just want some fish with live rock its very easy to keep. Very little to maintain.

If you plan on doing many different types of hard coral small polyp stony, clams, etc there will be more to maintain. The RSM tanks are wonderful all in ones. But at 34 gallons you will be pretty limited on how much you can keep in them.

I have been in the hobby for over 5 years which isnt very long compared to Blueface.

What did you have in mind for stocking your tank?

[md4958]

That depends on how much you are willing to work and what you plan to keep. If you just want some fish with live rock its very easy to keep. Very little to maintain.

If you plan on doing many different types of hard coral small polyp stony, clams, etc there will be more to maintain. The RSM tanks are wonderful all in ones. But at 34 gallons you will be pretty limited on how much you can keep in them.

I have been in the hobby for over 5 years which isnt very long compared to Blueface.

What did you have in mind for stocking your tank?

Well thats the problem, I love the look of both fish and coral, but I understand they are really two different tanks. I figured with that size tank I would probably be limited to 3 or 4 fish if I went with live rock. Is that correct?

[Blueface]

Woah! This is the most crazy awesome thread ever! I had no idea there was such a hobby to this. I had fish growing up, had an albino frog, etc, but nothing since. Crazy!!!

How long will the fish you have live? Will you trade/sell them, or keep them till they pass? Can you insure such expensive fish?

Reefkeeping isn't so much about keeping fish, it's more about keeping invertebrates. Corals, "bugs", shrimp, snails, live rock, starfishes, sea cucumbers, sponges, things that live in a reef system. Fish are a part of that system, but only a part.
When corals get too big, you "frag" them, which means you cut off pieces and they turn into new animals. That's how you keep your population under control. You can sell those fragments to other hobbyists.
No, you can't insure the stuff, at least not to my knowledge.

To add to what Scott said, as far as the fish lifespan goes, many saltwater fish can live as long as 15-20 years in captivity and as long as 30 in the ocean.

[OLS]

It is not hard to maintain if you commit to setting it up right and staying with your commitment.
To keep both fish and coral there are some rules. 1 is you have to have a sump, a good overflow TO that sump
and a good skimmer. 2 is Not a high population of fish, although depending on your sump and commitment
that is not such a tight rule. All fish do is eat, poop and swim. All three add stressors to your tank. So you
need a good system for dealing with that. You also need to set up a RO/DI water unit in your home, can be
done for 150 at Lowe's.

I recently found out I was not commited properly, and went from a 40 with a great sump to a 40 with no sump.
I was agitated at the power consumption. Enter Aiptasia infestation which spiralled out of control. So I took
all the uninfested rock and coral and kept only my two Green Chromis and went down further to a 20 gallon.
Now instead of a sump or skimmer, I have a kooky surface overflow made out of a plastic bottle and there
is a hose leading from that bottle's neck directly into a plain old waterfall aquarium filter with floss, carbon and
other media. It is working well, but i have to keep the floss changed twice a week. No Aiptasia problem, and
I killed the two hangers'on with Kalkwasser paste. Talk about not a lot of space to work with. But it looks good
again. I should never have cranked up another tank back a few years ago when I re-started. I no longer
felt like spending the money, it was like a zombie walking into the store and getting all the stuff and ordering
even more online. I was not listening to my true inner self. It was crazy. I would not have even moved down
to the 20 were it not for my beautiful purple mushrooms I have, they are freaking gorgeous, and I did not want
to give them away. I figured I would keep a tank just for them, and the rest of the corals are there by the
grace of the purples.

[OLS]

Moe, to continue that thought I got distracted on, I have SEEN reef tanks SWARMING with fish, but naturally,
they have super systems in place to clean the water. Normal hobbyists should probably do as you said, limit
the amount of fish they keep. The desire for great schools of fish would likely add 3-5000 dollars worth of
additional equipment to deal with their pollution. Like was said before, to ME, the tank is much more about the
creatures that you have that you do not see at first, worms, scuds, tubeworms, sponges tunicates, etc.
Some of the most interesting things in the tank never move. But they do grow.

[OLS]

I stopped feeding for now till the skimmers re-break-in. They should come around in the next day or two, we'll see.Scott, I was wondering about your skimmer. Do you have a way to keep your water level constant?
i.e. a top-off system? Sump? Most skimmers are pretty reactive to water level changes.
Not sure what your setup currently is, but some skimmers are pretty picky

[BC-Axeman]

The nano. I sits it the corner of our main bathroom.
http://130.94.224.229/share/nanoreef.jpg
This is my twelve gallon tank in the bathroom. This was from two years ago but it still looks about the same. It went through a crash during a heat wave when the water got too hot but recovered to about what it was before.

[shilala]

Is it worth the trouble?
It's like earning a law degree and never making a dime for it.
If you love law, the answer is "absolutely". If it's just a passing fancy, I'd suggest a nice painting.
Moe, in the last 15 years, I've easily spent 14 years of them in saltwater. Most times I don't even wash my hands anymore. Some days I look at the thing and rue the day I ever met a fish tank.
Some days, I very much enjoy it.
Other days, Lisa and I enjoy it very much together. The smile on her face is priceless.
When friends and family come over and there's six or eight kids and four or five other grownups and we're all looking at it together, and the kid's eyes are as big as saucers, that makes it become a true God-given blessing.

When I moved out here, I had made up my mind that I was all done. Lisa made me stick with it. She made the right call. :tu

Oh, one more thing...
That page about the tank and how it makes things easy, blah, blah, blah?
Utter bullsh1t. The best way I can explain the commitment is that it's exactly like getting a dog. It requires just as much work time, if not more. You can't leave it for any amount of time without being in care of another reefer, and it ties a brother down.
Think about the things you do for your dog, checking to see if he's sick, looking after his health, etc. If that's okay with you, go get it.

Now, that's a reef tank.
A marine tank, or fish-only tank isn't near as hard. You can make it hard and some guys do, but it's not remotely as hard as a reef tank, in my experience.

[shilala]

Scott, I was wondering about your skimmer. Do you have a way to keep your water level constant?
i.e. a top-off system? Sump? Most skimmers are pretty reactive to water level changes.
Not sure what your setup currently is, but some skimmers are pretty picky
Brad, I have two otb skimmers. Each are rated over the tank size.
I noticed that when they are new, the acrylic is so frictional that it severely retards the whirlpool. As soon as an algae film grows on it in a few days, they kick in. In a few weeks, they work like madmen.
I screwed up. I should have never cleaned both at once. One was practically brand new and didn't need cleaned, as far as I was concerned. They were chugging out the junk every time I fed.
I had a kid come in and help me out, and I got nervous. He had great ideas and was a HUGE help, but he thought stuff out like kids do. In an effort to do honor and respect to the favor he bestowed upon me, I did a couple things that I knew I shouldn't have done in haste.
The one thing I haven't done is disrupted my sandbed and thinned it out as he suggested. I'm not doing that until the skimmers are 100%, my diatom filter is hooked up and running, I have 20 gallons of replacement water ready, and I've removed all my corals down by the bottom.

Oh, I have an otb filter that makes a crazy racket when the water level drops a quarter inch. The tank is right here in our office. If I don't hear it, Lisa points it out. It gets topped off by old Dad every couple days.
My skimmers aren't real sensitive to water level, either, being over-the-backs.

[Wolfgang]

If it's anything I've decided that I am going to be setting up a reef in my apartment. Prepare for photos galore in the next few weeks.

[Ahbroody]

Florida and Apartment you better be prepared for high power bills. Lighting and keeping it cool either AC or a chiller is going to add up fast. May want to look into LEDs right off the bat.

[Wolfgang]

I'll be using LEDs that will cut back on both heat and power consumption. Last summer my electric bills were only $80 should be ok. :)

[Wolfgang]

I'll be using this http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10704+21599&pcatid=21599

[shilala]

I'll be using this http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10704+21599&pcatid=21599
Marc, How do you convert the wattage of led's to standard wattage?
For instance, my t5 light is about 450 watts over my 90 gallon reef.
If you have led's, you'd only be able to get maybe 150 watts out of two fixtures over my tank.
So what does that equal in "standard" wattage? Is there a formula, calculator, or does each particular light tell you "Our 75 watts is like 750 watts of t5 lighting", etc.
By the way, I just saw the new led's for the first time a couple days ago. I still haven't recovered from sticker shock. The ones you posted are a lot more reasonable, but that's without comparing them performance-wise.

[Wolfgang]

I don't know the exact formula I believe it has to do with how efficiently they penetrate throughout the water. I'll pull up some info when I get home.

They are more expensive but imagine the cost of replacing bulbs every 6months opposed to being set for 10 years. Plus the lowered electricity bill, and no need for a chiller or blasting AC. These will be on a 14 or 29 gallon tank as well maybe the 50 if I can get my buds to help me move it from 60 miles away.

[Wolfgang]

Thought Id share a picture of my 90 gallon in its current state.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/208235_1972023422403_1297536532_2361681_6697649_n. jpg

[shilala]

Looks great, Marc!!!
I went to a frag swap today and spent a bunch of money. Came home with some real nice fast growers and a clam. It's my first throw at a clam, so I'm a bit nervous.
I've got the house wrecked and I'm covered with salt water again. :noon

[Wolfgang]

Thank you, its a bit sparse currently.

Do you know what kind of clam you got? Corsea, Dersea, Maximus, gigas, squamosa?
Pictures when they are all happy and extended.

[shilala]

Thank you, its a bit sparse currently.

Do you know what kind of clam you got? Corsea, Dersea, Maximus, gigas, squamosa?
Pictures when they are all happy and extended.
Yeah, it's a blue one. It's about 1 1/2" long, white on the outside and blue on the inside.
He only opens a little bit in the bowl. I've decided to call it a Harv Clam until we figure out what it is, then Lisa will probably name it. It's hers, she picked it out.
I have no idea what any of my stuff is. I take that back, we have a big Kenya tree. I know what my fish are, too. :D

[shilala]

I finally got my salinity up and my lights backed down, and my tank is just hanging in there. It really took a shock from moving here in January. Lots of die-back of algae and live rock.
Right now it's cycling again, to some extent. The hair algae is back despite absolute zero phosphate. I'm pretty sure I'm dealing with silicates for two reasons...
1.) My ro/di unit is desperately overdue for a filters/membrane changeout.
2.) I scrub my water with a diatom filter.
Once I get my new cartridges in the ro/di, water changes should solve that in short order, and I'll clean up the diatom filter and put it away for a long nap.
I'm really happy to be at the "sit and wait" period. I'm gonna let the green and brown algae grow till it peters out and the skimmers will clean that up.
I'm looking forward to the break, this has been 3 grueling months of reef beatings. :D

[Wolfgang]

IT could actually be both. Phosphates will not show up on a test if you have algae growing. The Algae eats up the Po4 and to some extent the Nitrate too. Either way you are on the right track. Looking forward to seeing photos.

[shilala]

IT could actually be both. Phosphates will not show up on a test if you have algae growing. The Algae eats up the Po4 and to some extent the Nitrate too. Either way you are on the right track. Looking forward to seeing photos.
Thanks for that, brother. I did not know that at all. I hardly have any algae in there at all right now, I think I'll test the phosphate just for the hell of it.
If I can find my little camera, I'll take some pics as soon as I can.

[fissure]

If anyone is interested, I have some little things left over from my tear down that might be of use. Trades for a few sticks?? :D I'll look in the next few days but I know these off the top of my head.

Clear Filter housing with refillable DI cart
DI Resin ~5 pounds or so
Bulk reef supply feric oxide media (phosphate remover)
Inline digital TDS meter

[OLS]

I think I am going to snap a photo tonight, because as bad as the switchover from 40 down to 20 could have
gone, all I really got was a diatom bloom, and a small one at that. My two snails mowed that down and had a ball
doing it. I really like this setup better, the green chromis being the only two fish works better than trying to
feed a yellow tang that would not come out if I was in the room. Now everything is blown out and huge,
and although it is not a glamourous tank, there are no freaking aiptasia anymore, and that was the goal.
The two I had that managed to not be seen did not survive a face full of kalk paste. A LITTLE Valonia problem
persists, but it's pretty common on reefs & I am going to let it work itself out. I am not looking for another
emerald crab. My old one used to knock EVERYTHING over all the time. But all in all the tank looks pretty good
actually, for a ghetto, anyway.

[OLS]

Scott, I think I am going to pick up a small HOB skimmer this week. The only reason I restarted my tank,
and this is sadly hilarious, was that I had an old Berlin skimmer which requires a massive pump to aerate,
and some dead live rock. Everything else had to be bought. That junk wasn't worth 80 bucks, so I spent
probably 2000 to build a tank around 80 bucks. :r Ludicrous. But I did it anyway. But now I know I can
get by with a small HOB, although I do like the homemade overflow I made. I need a pic of that tonight, too.

[Christiel49]

I have been toying with getting a small, 10-20 gal, tank. I am still in a bit of shock! I had a 90 gal that had a pump in the bottom go bad....which destroyed the hardwoods downstairs. Any suggestions?

[OLS]

Setting the whole thing up inside a baby pool. :sh

[OLS]

OK, here is the 20 gallon as it looks 5 minutes ago. This tank was a junk tank for years, and is scratched up and seems to have some
diatoms on the glass that I missed, but you get the idea. My favorite fauna have to be the purple mushrooms, they are the sole reason
I did not chunk the whole lot. TOO fine to let go for free to some Ahole fish store. BUT also there is the purple gorgonian. These used
to be everywhere, now you can't find em. They frag so easy and grow superfast. They also clean the tank water with the thousands
of individuals that make up the colony. A few zoanthus species. Maybe more pics as I see stuff you would enjoy. Also note in the top
left corner, the upturned plastic bottle. The top has notched teeth that strain the top film from the water the way an overflow does.
The water that goes into it is piped directly to the waterfall filter. Imperfect system, but pretty dang effective til I get a HOB skimmer.
If it seems a bit undergrown, remember that the entire tank was stripped down and mostly all new structural live rock added only a few
weekends ago. You can't imagine the life that perished when I burned my live rock in fresh water for a few days, then pressure washed
it and put it on a rack to dry. SAD. This tank at 40 gals was CRAWLING with scuds and copepods and amphipods...crawling.

[Ahbroody]

Purtty.

[Wolfgang]

ill be trading some of my Green Montipora Cap for some Green star polyps and some eagle eyes zoanthids this weekend. Im excited.

[Christiel49]

Very nice OLS!! I love the mushrooms the best, too. I just like to watch for the little stuff

[shilala]

Scott, I think I am going to pick up a small HOB skimmer this week. The only reason I restarted my tank,
and this is sadly hilarious, was that I had an old Berlin skimmer which requires a massive pump to aerate,
and some dead live rock. Everything else had to be bought. That junk wasn't worth 80 bucks, so I spent
probably 2000 to build a tank around 80 bucks. :r Ludicrous. But I did it anyway. But now I know I can
get by with a small HOB, although I do like the homemade overflow I made. I need a pic of that tonight, too.
I'd suggest you get two, if they'll fit. There's little Coralife's that are real cheap. That way when one quits, the other will keep chugging until you realize the venturi tube is plugged with salt. :D
The other stuff...
You're preaching to the choir. You, by no means, have a monopoly on stupid, my friend. :r

[shilala]

Your tank looks great, Brad. You should get a shipwreck or one of those diver guys that go up and down on bubbles, but aside from that, suhweet. :tu
That thing is gonna be spilling over with corals in no time, I'm waiting to see how long it takes to get back to the 40.

[shilala]

I have been toying with getting a small, 10-20 gal, tank. I am still in a bit of shock! I had a 90 gal that had a pump in the bottom go bad....which destroyed the hardwoods downstairs. Any suggestions?
Try a nano-cube like Lance has. The pic is just up there a few posts.
I always thought they were cool, and they seem to do a great job at keeping the water nice.

[shilala]

Oh, Brad, I have some of that blue stuff like you have on the right. I just like it cause it's blue, and it grows all over Molasses Reef off Key Largo. It looks amazing waving around in the surge. It reminds me of the wind blowing the oats around out in the field.

[OLS]

ill be trading some of my Green Montipora Cap for some Green star polyps and some eagle eyes zoanthids this weekend. Im excited. haha, I wish I lived closer to you, I got freaking star polyps coming out of my star polyps.
Keep em on the sand! Or sit em on a piece of junk rock on the sand. Anything they get within an inch of will
soon have star polyps growing on it.

[OLS]

It's funny when I look at those pics, I had dozens of rock rubble frags in my old tank, a few polyps of this
some of that. I remember now why I started that tank up against all the screaming inner voices against
it. I was gonna have a self-sustaining tank. When I needed salt, I was going to trade frags. New lamps,
frags. Fish Food...frags. But then I had the aiptasia outbreak and that all went to hell. You can't sell frags
when they all have aiptasia on em. I once told a guy he was FOS cause he told someone that they
were having aiptasia trouble because their water parameters were filthy. Apparently, and this is not the
first time this has happened, I WAS the one who was FOS. Less feeding and clean water and they just
died out. Or the shrimp all of a sudden just woke up and decided it DID eat aiptasia. Granted, I pulled out
almost all the rocks with aiptasia on em. But they can pop up anywhere at anytime. ANYWAY, all my frags
are clean now, I must have 6 green star polyp rocks in there, haha, and at least 5 of the Silver (purple) Muricea
gorgonians. I see green parazoanthus everywhere, too.

[Wolfgang]

haha, I wish I lived closer to you, I got freaking star polyps coming out of my star polyps.
Keep em on the sand! Or sit em on a piece of junk rock on the sand. Anything they get within an inch of will
soon have star polyps growing on it.

My goal is to have them cover the back glass of my tank. sure beats algae.

Side note. I was talking to my friend last night and he was telling me about someone who was asking if star polyps were hard to keep. His response was "You could scrape them off with a paint scraper, put them in your back pocket, and drive home and they will still be fine."

[shilala]

Do Star Polyps look like clove coral? Kinda like green grass in mats?

[Wolfgang]

yes sir. purple mat green extensions. CLoves are a little different but they are pretty close to the same.

[shilala]

Okay, another question...
How are polyps different than zoos?

[Wolfgang]

Zoos and Palythoas are polyps. Often referred to as a "sea mat" In most cases each individual organism is a polyp. This also includes the dots on hard coral SPS Small polyp stony or LPS Large polyp stony.

[shilala]

Marc, I think my problem and confusion comes from the fact that I'm not sure what constitutes a polyp.
I was thinking they were all flat like little upside-down bottle caps, but I guess they have all kinds of shapes and sizes, right?

[Wolfgang]

Yes they do have all shapes and sizes. The bottlecap looking ones are most likely zoanthids or palythoas. But most every form of coral has polyps.

below are 5 different kinds of coral in red are circled individual polyps. each polyp is its own organism and under the right circumstances can live on its own.

[shilala]

Thanks, Marc. That helps A LOT!!! :D
I think I have some palys and acans. No zoos, and that's what I like because of all the colors.
Are the first pic and the last pic acans?
I'm assuming a Kenya Tree is a softie, and frogspawn is an LPS? A gorgonian would be an SPS, right?
If I got all that right, I've come about 1000 miles in the last month. I learned lots of stuff, you're connecting all the dots for me. :tu

[Wolfgang]

Thanks, Marc. That helps A LOT!!! :D
I think I have some palys and acans. No zoos, and that's what I like because of all the colors.
Are the first pic and the last pic acans?
I'm assuming a Kenya Tree is a softie, and frogspawn is an LPS? A gorgonian would be an SPS, right?
If I got all that right, I've come about 1000 miles in the last month. I learned lots of stuff, you're connecting all the dots for me. :tu

The first picture is of acans the last picture is of trumpet or candycane coral. both are LPS

Gorgonians fall into a different category because they dont create a hard calcified skeletal structure. They are actually sea fans.

Other than that you've got it down pat. One thing to differentiate zoos from pallys is the size. Palythoas are generally much larger the Zoanthids form more of a mat where you cant see their bases.

Side note: Be careful when handling zoanthids or palythoas. After fragging or even moving them be sure to scrub your hands and arms with soap under hot water. They are very poisonous if you rub your eye or eat food and this toxin gets into your body your boned. There is no antidote for them either. Easiest way is to just use latex gloves when fiddling with them.
This is meant for information only, dont be scared to hack apart a colony to send to your reef buddies. :tu

[shilala]

I was showing the pics to Lisa this morning and caught that the last pic was an LPS. :noon:banger:noon
We have a cow's tongue, a pretty big one, and I get that it's an SPS, but I can see it might fall into a different category cause the discs that resemble it move around the tank.
I'm getting there.
I have a book, it's called the 100 best corals and 33 bad ones, or something like that. I've been reading on it for awhile. I'm going to go back through the critters to further familiarize myself with what's what.

My new guts for my ro/di come in a day or two and I'm gonna be a mad water changer for the next month. I've also decided I'll completely quit using my diatom filter, as I think the silicates are what's driving my algaes.
For the first time in 14 or 15 years I'm starting to gain some confidence in this stuff, and all my critters are thriving. The ones I brought home that were all brown and nasty have gained some nice color, all except a radioactive eagle eye coach purse paly I bought. It was teenage girl raised, it'll take awhile to get it some color and move it up in the lights.
Another thing I found is that folks don't use lights as strong as me, or they don't tend to them like I do. I'm super anal about how clean they are and how clean my lids are and how new the bulbs are.
I had to move everything I got way down in the column, they couldn't stand the light.
I'm feeding live phytoplankton, frozen brine shrimp, and one of five other frozen foods daily. Soon I'll have live phyto that I grew and live brine shrimp (phyto packed) that I grew.
So things are just gonna get better as long as I can keep getting things to add up.
I just got the phytoplankton book I was waiting for, so we're moving ahead. :D
Thanks buddy!!! :tu
The first picture is of acans the last picture is of trumpet or candycane coral. both are LPS

Gorgonians fall into a different category because they dont create a hard calcified skeletal structure. They are actually sea fans.

Other than that you've got it down pat. One thing to differentiate zoos from pallys is the size. Palythoas are generally much larger the Zoanthids form more of a mat where you cant see their bases.

Side note: Be careful when handling zoanthids or palythoas. After fragging or even moving them be sure to scrub your hands and arms with soap under hot water. They are very poisonous if you rub your eye or eat food and this toxin gets into your body your boned. There is no antidote for them either. Easiest way is to just use latex gloves when fiddling with them.
This is meant for information only, dont be scared to hack apart a colony to send to your reef buddies.

[OLS]

I would agree Scott, if you are getting stable, a diatom filter is useless. You are going to have a diatom bloom most times
that you dick with your sandbed or make major changes to something, but normally there should be imperceptible amounts
in the water column. I would think that diatoms are excellent food. Fanworms gotta eat, too. If the way the filter works
is giving you hair algae, haha, pull that junk.

[OLS]

I think I also confused Scott, I tend to call Protopalythoa by the name Parazoanthus. It has been a long time since
I cared about the nomenclature, lol. What I actually have is Protopalythoa. (And Zoanthids) HERE is a scary one for
you. What would you think if you saw THIS: (click pic from online, not my own)

I have some pest anemones that look ALOT like that, but I still think they were aiptasia and not NEOzoanthus,
as these are called. For sure not Majano. I am sure I have been killing aiptasia, based on how they multipled and where.

[Wolfgang]

careful with the frozen foods. In most cases they are littered with nitrates and phosphates.
When your RODI stuff comes in i would recommend rinsing the frozen food in it to remove the nasties.

I always let the cubes thaw in a shot glass then moved it to a small fish net and ran freshwater over it. then into the tank it went. Turning your pumps and powerheads ff during feedings makes it easier to spot feed your inverts.

[OLS]

A double word of warning, SOME zoanthids are extremely dangerous to handle, not nearly all, in fact only a few
species can kill. The palythoa and protopalythoa are the most likely to be toxic, and all have the potential, so obviously like
wolfie said, this might be a time when safe is better than sorry. It is always a good idea to clean up or use gloves when
messing with zoanthids, but I do it all the time barehanded with my species and it hasn'tdajsflkd effectedoir;aljsd me yetasdjaksjd

[OLS]

asking if star polyps were hard to keep. His response was "You could scrape them off with a paint scraper, put them in your back pocket, and drive home and they will still be fine."You will cringe when you hear this, Wolfie, but last night I took a toothbrush to
some that had gotten into my Palythoa, and after reading your warnings about seamat in general,
I had to re-read an article describing the paly and protopalythoa as the most toxic of all, haha.
The purple base was easy to peel off of the polyps of seamat, but on porous rock it can be tougher.
Hopefully a toothbrush is more damaging than a back pocket, haha.



http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/inverts

[shilala]

I would agree Scott, if you are getting stable, a diatom filter is useless. You are going to have a diatom bloom most times
that you dick with your sandbed or make major changes to something, but normally there should be imperceptible amounts
in the water column. I would think that diatoms are excellent food. Fanworms gotta eat, too. If the way the filter works
is giving you hair algae, haha, pull that junk.
I usually use a brush and gather up the hair algae when it gets bad enough. Then I hook up my diatom filter and scrub the water.
Another strategy is to leave the crap and let it tie up whatever nutrients it's tying up. That's what I'm gonna do for a bit.
I'm just gonna do water changes and be done stressing. Everything is doing great, the hair will be gone soon enough.
I got zero patience with it all. I just moved this tank from PA to OH in January. The weather was crazy cold and I had lots of die-back. I should be thanking God that I have anything left, rather than b1thching about doing as
well as I am. :tu

[shilala]

I think I also confused Scott, I tend to call Protopalythoa by the name Parazoanthus. It has been a long time since
I cared about the nomenclature, lol. What I actually have is Protopalythoa. (And Zoanthids) HERE is a scary one for
you. What would you think if you saw THIS: (click pic from online, not my own)

I have some pest anemones that look ALOT like that, but I still think they were aiptasia and not NEOzoanthus,
as these are called. For sure not Majano. I am sure I have been killing aiptasia, based on how they multipled and where.
Those things are flat out hideous. Probably just cause they're colored like aiptasia, I suppose.

[shilala]

careful with the frozen foods. In most cases they are littered with nitrates and phosphates.
When your RODI stuff comes in i would recommend rinsing the frozen food in it to remove the nasties.

I always let the cubes thaw in a shot glass then moved it to a small fish net and ran freshwater over it. then into the tank it went. Turning your pumps and powerheads ff during feedings makes it easier to spot feed your inverts.
Marc, I got those rubber gloves today at Target. It's a good idea, I'm tired of getting stung and burned every time I get in the tank. :d
I've thought about messing with the frozen food, and I'll start doing it if you think it matters, after this...
My tank is a 90 gallon. There is about 3-4 inches of crushed coral/sanded in there. There's easily 200 pounds of live rock, I'd be afraid to really know. The tank is full to the top, half way out to the front (and further). I estimate there's 40-50 gallons of water in there.
I change no less than 10 gallons of water a week. If I see any amount of particulate, I change 20. Now that it's settled from the move, I'll change 10 gallons a week from now to eternity.
With that amount of change, and so much stuff to feed wouldn't it be better to leave the goo?
Say the word and I'll get some real close fabric and strain it and rinse it before I add it to the phyto and feed it with that 36" baster thing I got.

[shilala]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/inverts
Excellent article, Brad. I started reading but I'm suffering zero retention right now. I saved it to my iPad home screen, I'll read it tonight when I can't sleep, or at coffee tomorrow morning.
It looks awesome, thank you!!! :tu

[Wolfgang]

Im kind of on the fence Scott. You have such a large system that a few forzen blocks / week shouldnt make a HUGE impact. I have a setup pretty similar to yours but in one of my smaller tanks it became a nightmare. I always just used one of the fish nets I had laying around to rinse off the frozen foods even if you put the blocks in the net and run tap water over it it will significantly reduce the nitrates and phosphates you are putting in the tank and after that the coral, fish get fed. With the phytoplankton dont go overboard. When I used it i would fill a 3cc syringe and target the sps and gorgonians (with the pump off).

BEFORE
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/DSC_0314.jpg

After
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/DSCF1341.jpg

[BC-Axeman]

I think I also confused Scott, I tend to call Protopalythoa by the name Parazoanthus. It has been a long time since
I cared about the nomenclature, lol. What I actually have is Protopalythoa. (And Zoanthids) HERE is a scary one for
you. What would you think if you saw THIS: (click pic from online, not my own)

I have some pest anemones that look ALOT like that, but I still think they were aiptasia and not NEOzoanthus,
as these are called. For sure not Majano. I am sure I have been killing aiptasia, based on how they multipled and where.
Aiptasia don't have the "mouth" that those things have. Majano don't either.
A clue about Aiptasia is that their common name is Glass Anemone. They can be very fast at reacting to touch and even a large one can disappear quickly. Zoas and Majanos are very slow by comparison.

I had star polyp almost take over my tank, then disappear suddenly. Then it was the Xenia, which is now ok. Now it's the Rhodactis (hairy mushrooms) that are taking over. These things would be $25 apiece at the LFS but I take them out and flush them down if ever I can pry one loose. They slowly carpet other things and the divide. Even funnier is he Sarcophytons (toadstool coral) that are going for $50 that are constantly dropping fingers that grow into new units. I throw these out sometimes too. I have a pineapple coral that is starting to overgrow everything around it but I don't care. I have no time to worry about the appearance of my tank now. Maybe sometime I will just turn all the top rocks to the bottom and let everything start back again and get some new stuff. Let the strong survive. My fish are doing fine. I wish I could work more on my tank.

[shilala]

I use a great big syringe and target the critters directly with the food soup I make. I feed every other day. All my pumps and power heads turn off with one switch. When I find time to hook up the wave maker I got, it has a feeding button on it that shuts everything off.

How'd you kill all your stuff, man?

Im kind of on the fence Scott. You have such a large system that a few forzen blocks / week shouldnt make a HUGE impact. I have a setup pretty similar to yours but in one of my smaller tanks it became a nightmare. I always just used one of the fish nets I had laying around to rinse off the frozen foods even if you put the blocks in the net and run tap water over it it will significantly reduce the nitrates and phosphates you are putting in the tank and after that the coral, fish get fed. With the phytoplankton dont go overboard. When I used it i would fill a 3cc syringe and target the sps and gorgonians (with the pump off).

BEFORE
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/DSC_0314.jpg

After
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/wolfgang8810/DSCF1341.jpg

[Wolfgang]

feeding too much with frozen cubes. This tank was a 23 gallon tank. Algae grew and whe i went on vacation the fish sitter didn't understand my instructions and double fed. when i got home the rocks were not visible underneath all of the algae. the lack of light killed everything.

Currently I only feed Spectrum pellets to both the fish and my coral. Im adding a solid media reactor to my tank this weekend. Next reef SMR1. Wonderful product.

[shilala]

That's painful.
I'd like to put a stock tank under the steps in the basement for a sump, something that'd give me a nice 2 or 3 hundred gallon buffer. Just jam it full of sand and plants.
I just worry that the more equipment you get going on, the more chance for problems there are. I'll give it some time and see how things go. I think I'll be fine once the ro/di guts get here. That should put a halt to the little trouble I do have in a month or two. If not, I'll start thinking about options.

[Wolfgang]

Hows this for a sump?

http://masc2279.no-ip.org/Plone/cornerreef/tank-pictures/img_0003.jpg/image

[BC-Axeman]

Hows this for a sump?


;) Part of it needs lighting to set up a refugium. :D

Just kidding.

Not that refugiums aren't a good idea. They act as a nutrient stripper and 'pod breeder so if you have one in your system they're great.

[OLS]

Man when I think of the trouble and automation I had going on my 40 gallon. Now I am 1/4 the power
consumption, but twice the work. Fair trade, I guess. I DO miss my auto top-off a little. And I miss
the extra 20 gallons of sump capacity. And the space. And my wrasse.

[shilala]

Hows this for a sump?
That is exactly the nightmare I had imagined, I just couldn't put it to words.
If you took off all that stuff except a hose coming in and one coming out, and add a light, that's what I want. :D

[BC-Axeman]

I've always wanted my sump/cooler/refugium/etc. in the basement. Then there would only be the two pipes and a lot less electrical stuff.

[shilala]

Lance, my basement is nice and cold. That's kind of a concern. I'd probably end up having to add a heater to the sump, and insulate and cover it, whereas my tank holds perfect temp right now.
Come summer, I'll re-evaluate and see if it gets too hot. If that be the case, I'll just raise the light and take off the glass tops.
Keeping stuff warm here is far more difficult than keeping it chilled.
I'm with ya, though. Just a refugium to make critters and plants and get a real biocycle going. I could get the skimmers and filters off the back of my tank and there'd be less noise. That's all I'm looking for. I have a perfect place to do it, too. Right under the steps in the basement. :tu

[shilala]

I never thought to ask you guys about this, my bad. My brain doesn't put the ends of the spaghetti noodles together very good some days. :D
I just offered this stuff yesterday on my reef club's site, had no takers out of 24 lookers.
I just jammed the food in a small priority box and it fits great. I can send it asap if any of you guys can use it, or if you just wanna try it, or you know someone who will put it to use, whatever. I'll even send a treat for your troubles, I think I can get something else in there. :D

Here's the text of the ad...
"Hi Guys,
I have posted for free some Instant Ocean Herbivore Diet Seaweed Blend and Seaweed Grazing Block. Both are brand new and unopened, I pulled them out of a couple buckets of salt yesterday.
I read them, they look neat and all that stuff, but I'm not going to put them to use.
If you're not familiar, they're single serving no-spoil feed. The big pack has packets like ketchup packets, the grazing blocks are little short cans that put you in the mind of a votive candle (but bigger around) with a lid.
If one of you guys can use them and want to stop by and pick them up, they're all yours.
I'm in Streetsboro, my number is 814-771-09 one two. Feel free to call or text, my first name is Scott.
Thank You!!!
Here's a pic, the embedded image is too big to post and I'm on the run, no time to resize it...
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96 ... f606f8.jpg (http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/c4f606f8.jpg)
...and here's the pic...
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/scottshilala/c4f606f8.jpg

[Wolfgang]

Sending pm

[shilala]

Sending pm
You forgot to send it. :)
Make sure you send me your address, too. The most recent I have for ya is Cherry Hills.

[shilala]

Tonight I'm gonna tape a toothbrush to a yardstick (or my yard long baster/feeder) and clean my thing that looks like a blue gorgonian but it's not. It's pretty badly hair algae grossed-up and I'm afraid if I don't clean it, it'll be dead. THAT, I do not want. It is an amazing catcher of hair algae, just by it's form and nature.

My radioactive eagle claw south dakotan burger king palythoas are changing color, as I guessed they would. They are turning from all brown to what appears to be a purple center, yellow cat-eye slit, with red fringes.
I'll tell ya, if they continue to get colored up the way they look like they're gonna, I will have the dead sexiest mat of squishy things you ever laid eyes upon. I'm bigtime stoked. :tu
Everyone gets fed tonight and they're all staring at me. I'm the most popular guy in the room right now. Actually I'm the only guy in the room, but by the look of all these critters, I'm DAMN important. :r

Marc, I checked out all the NextReef stuff. It seems like really well built stuff. I have a canister filter and I keep some ceramic media and floss and foam. I just keep that for a biofilter. How's come a fluidized bed is better? Because of all the extra surface area of the media?

[Wolfgang]

the surface area and because they are constantly moving the nasties dont build up in them like it would in filter floss or bio balls. The owner of the company is a personal friend of mine. If you (or anyone else are reading along) even are thinking of adding one to your system let me know.

[shilala]

I want one, bud. An MR1Monster Complete with 2 gallons of media.
Can you score that stuff? I know Next Reef doesn't handle the media, per say, but it said they built their stuff around some Dr.'s media design. That's the stuff I want. I figured since they're in cahoots and used that media in design/build, they probably have tons laying around.
4' of tubing sounds a bit light on the "complete" side, too. (The complete package gives you tubing and pumps and I assume some over the back j bends and down tubes and stuff.) This is gonna go under my tank and replace the canister. 4 feet of tubing doesn't seem like that's gonna get it, ya think?

The reason I picked the big one is for volume and surface area. I figure that way, there's plenty of reactive bacteria to instantly take care of my feedings ( I plan to jam this tank slap full of corals, to the hilt).
If that doesn't fly because the bacteria needs food to stay alive, I get that, too. In that case, I have a 90 gallon undrilled, and I'd like as much ass as I can get benefit from without hurting the system's process, if that makes sense?

[OLS]

If the gorgonian is worth it's salt, you should be able to remove it in the morning and gently scrub the
hair off of it. They should be fully sucked in in the morning, and if not, pulling it out of the water will do it,
haha. But a gentle rub with a paper towel should do it. GENTLE. Others may disagree, and I would
certainly err on the side of caution, but they are reasonably tough. You an also cut an arm off and NOT
rub that one and you'd have transplant stock were something to go wrong. Simply scrape gently with a
razor blade along the length of the bottom and expose 3/8 of an inch of skeleton and super glue that to
a chunk of rock. It will quickly grow over the wound and the rock and be a new piece. Super glue a dab,
stick gorgo to rock, hold and immerse in water after 5-10 secs.

[shilala]

I cleaned her up with a bottle brush and it's all good to go. It deployed all it's polyps before dinner. I'd have just let it be, but I really like it and didnt want to take a chance. I knew it was tough and I wasn't afraid to clean it at all.
Thanks for the fragging procedure, I'll want to grow a nice stand of this stuff. It sounds super easy.

On another front, my gloves are no good. I made sure they were unpowdered latex. They still had stuff that came off of them in the tank. I'll get some better ones that actually fit me.

Last night I flushed a giant killer/bulldozer hermit crab. Today saw theendof two giant bulldozer snails. There's a couple more crabs that gotta go cause they're too big, I'll catch them when I see them.
There will probably be something in the paper tomorrow about all the manhole covers in Streetsboro being moved. I'm just gonna stay quiet.

[OLS]

I need to post a pic of the snail I banished a few months back. I had seen a pic of the
Zoanthid eating snails, but could never catch the one that was eating my prize specimens.
I looked at night for a slug or snail, no luck. Then one day I am rooting around in the
early morning and passed the tank and see this ping-pong-ball-sized snail MOVING like a
jet over a rock, and SHOCK!...it was one of the bad snails. I skanked it and threw it in my
live rock punishment tank. That killed it, it had no zoanthids to eat. But I kept the shell,
as I like to say, as a warning to others. I'll snap a pic for your IDing purposes, Scott, just for
the future health of your Eagle-Eye Cherry delights.

[Wolfgang]

Gorilla grabs are the common ones that are hitchhikers on live rock. I absolutely hate them. I have about 30 red leg hermits in my 90. They love when i remember to feed the tank all of them come scurrying out. :D

[OLS]

Haha, I think I have 4 Blue legs, and everytime they smell food they start climbing the palythoas...they know!
Freaking theives, as bad as my shrimp.

[shilala]

Of these two that went for a toilet ride, one was the black and white striped kind that everyone has. Astrea, I think?
The other, I have no clue. He had a basically white, non-descript shell, with 70% of it being really nice purple algae.
The black and white ones were real sensitive to electric. They told me one of my skimmer pumps was leaking electric in the tank cause they kept crawling out of the water. I'd find them outside the back glass and laying on the floor behind the tank. The other snails didn't care about the electric at all.
The crab I tossed was as big as a ping pong ball, easy. The snail, you wouldn't believe it if I told you. The smaller of the two snails was a freak in itself.

I was just trying to take pics of some of my stuff, but my battery was dead. So now I'm gonna wash my car.

[shilala]

K, so I charged my camera battery yesterday. The lights just came on in the tank. In an hour or so, everybody is generally fully deployed. I'm gonna try to take some pics. Yay!!! :D

[Wolfgang]

FINALLY!

I picked up the nextreef reactor today and the guy sent me home with a colony of Green Star polyps, eagle eyes, and a purple lip green montipora.

Pictures when everyone is happy.

[shilala]

Where'd you get your reactor at, man?
I still didn't email Justin, I haven't stopped long enough to do it.

No pics yet, my guys still aren't ready. They're camera shy, I suppose.:sh

[Wolfgang]

I picked it up directly from Justin. He had a factory second laying around (scratches on the clear tube) that's how picky these guys are with quality control. That's who I got the coral from too. I traded himself some of my stuff. Worked out well. I still need a pump for the reactor though.

[shilala]

I gotta email him. I'll try to do it tonight.

Rather than mess around with pics, I just took some video of my tank. It's a lot easier that way. So here it is...
Video of my Reef Tank. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwPq-RUMnZ4)

[Wolfgang]

your tank looks great! :D

[shilala]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/inverts
I finished up that article late last night, Brad. I very much enjoyed it, thank you!!! :tu

[shilala]

Thanks, Mark.
I'm super excited about getting some more stock, getting her growing, and seeing what it looks like a year from now.
I gotta get some pulsing xenia and yellow clove polyps. I know it's rookie stuff, but I'm going to apply "reef what you like, like what you reef" to it. :D

[Wolfgang]

Thanks, Mark.
I'm super excited about getting some more stock, getting her growing, and seeing what it looks like a year from now.
I gotta get some pulsing xenia and yellow clove polyps. I know it's rookie stuff, but I'm going to apply "reef what you like, like what you reef" to it. :D

Take it slow. Reefs are like race cars the faster you go the harder you crash.

Xenia is wonderful! very pretty swaying in the "breeze" Are these the kind of yellow polyps you are looking for?

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/209/7/3/Yellow_Snake_Polyps_by_Wolfgang8810.jpg

[shilala]

I think those are them. I'll look in my book when I get home. They're supposed to be real hardy and a beginner critter. I just like them cause they're yellow.

[Wolfgang]

If these are in fact the right ones I'll send you some I have a colony the size of a football lol.

[shilala]

I came home and looked, those are them. They're just called yellow polyps. They say they grow real fast and they're kind of a pain in the ass. :)
I was gonna go to Captain Larry's tomorrow, but he's closed. There's a place in Kent that's pretty lousy, I should have stopped there today to see if they had anything, although I'm kind of afraid to buy anything there.

[Wolfgang]

if you have a reason to be afraid I would avoid buying from there. Same as here in Cigar world. If A supplier supplies questionable sticks mold, fakes, bugs, whatever. Trust your sources.

[shilala]

The place looks like they suffered a flood, hurricane, and a fire, then college kids moved in for 15 or 20 years.
I didn't give their stock, the little there was, much of a look. I just wanted out of there before I caught something. Mind ya, this is from a guy who worked in sh1t most of his life.

[BC-Axeman]

The place looks like they suffered a flood, hurricane, and a fire, then college kids moved in for 15 or 20 years.
I didn't give their stock, the little there was, much of a look. I just wanted out of there before I caught something. Mind ya, this is from a guy who worked in sh1t most of his life.
Girls in Birkenstocks:sh?
Smelling like patchouli?
(not that I know anything about any of that...)


I would send you about 10 heads of Xenia if you think they would survive the trip. They are a beautiful weed in my big tank but I have not seen them grow anywhere else much.

[shilala]

Girls in Birkenstocks:sh?
Smelling like patchouli?
(not that I know anything about any of that...)


I would send you about 10 heads of Xenia if you think they would survive the trip. They are a beautiful weed in my big tank but I have not seen them grow anywhere else much.
They'd never make it, Lance. Thanks, though. :tu
I found some in a place in Pittsburgh before. It's gone now, but the place across the street has been there since I was a kid and they have nice stuff. I found another place in Pittsburgh that has a HUGE selection, but we weren't looking for corals when we were there, just fish.
I'll probably have to head down there if I'm gonna have any luck.
The Cleveland/Akron area just seems devoid of any decent livestock places. I guess I'll just have to go across state lines to get the job done. :D

[shilala]

My replacement filters and membrane and DI cartridge came for my rodi unit. I got some tubing and fixed a leak, too. I got her all fired up and made my first 20 gallons of water. After feeding tomorrow, I'll clean some brown hair and start replacing a ridiculous amount of water for the next couple months until I get this hair under control.
When I was talking to the air, water, and ice girl, she asked if my system sat unused full of water. I told her no, then realized it sat around for quite awhile when I moved here. Apparently that's a very bad thing. It ruins your membrane and makes your RODI water smell like fish.
So there's yet another self-inflicted catastrophe I've set upon myself.
I'm glad it happened, otherwise I'd have never learned. My stuff is none the worse for the wear, and soon it'll get better.
I've learned volumes about reef keeping in the last month and keep reading constantly. Soon I may be able to keep stuff alive. :D

[shilala]

I've replaced 40 gallons of water and there's a DRAMATIC difference in the tank. The brown hair is starting to "sluff off" or slide off things, and it's puddling up on the surface a bit.
Despite my stupidity, my mushrooms are making babies all over the place, and the trumpet coral is dividing one of her polyps. She's turning from a five polyp lump to a six polyp lump.
The big mass of green paly's is making babies galore, and the radioactive eagle eyeball thing is five times it's original size, has picked up some color, and is dividing very rapidly. I couldn't be more pleased. :D

Question:
The trumpet fell off the small piece of cut plate glass she was glued to. Can I use super glue gel and stick her somewhere permanent?

[Wolfgang]

yes. make to use super glue gel. The thin stuff wont work. Gel is the key

[shilala]

yes. make to use super glue gel. The thin stuff wont work. Gel is the key
Thanks, brother. I have a whole bunch of gel. I discovered it because of the fish tank, and it's all I buy anymore. It works great. :tu

[Wolfgang]

Good on ya. When I first started io used the thin stuff and it spread over the colony and they got glued shut. No bueno.

[shilala]

I'm pretty sure you're the one who turned me on to the gel stuff in the first place. It was either you or Steve (fissure).

[BC-Axeman]

http://fracstar.com/pics/rhodactis.jpg
Rhodactis are becoming my new weed. They are very hard to get off a surface. They keep splitting.
Penelope has to ham it up for the camera.

[shilala]

I so miss our sail fin tang. I wonder if a new one would get along with our yellow tank? They're so mellow, I can't even imagine them fighting.

[shilala]

Last night after lights out I fed my corals in the dark. I dumped a bunch of Phyto and some brine shrimp in there. I figured that'd also benefit my copepods which seem non-existant aside from tons of bristle worms (assuming they qualify as copepods).
I did it because I already had another 20 gallon water change ready, and I'm feeding pretty agressively as stuff is really getting a foothold and responding well.
I had been feeding frozen food and phyto every other day, and had completely stopped flake. Then I eased way back on feeding and the fish helped with the brown hair. Now I ramped the food and am continuing water changes.
I've replaced 60 gallons of water now in a very short time, and still plan to do regular 20 gallon changes until the brown hair is completely managed. It's almost completely under control already, but I still hair a little green algae growth on the glass that I'm okay with. It's a very small amount.
I've moved some corals up in the water column and they're doing well with the light. I glued some fast, and a couple are ready to be glued.
Friday we go to Washington and we'll probably go to my fish store down in Pittsburgh and get some corals. Just a few simple carpeting things. Mainly I want to snag some pulsing xenia's, yellow polyps, and maybe some other easy cheap stuff that catches my eye.
I'd love to grab a couple fish, but they'd have to be super special and super small to make me consider it. Mostly I'd like to find a couple cool shrimp and reef stars.
I should probably just stay home. :D

[Wolfgang]

yellow tangs can be territorial. Not nearly as bad as the purple or black tangs but is let the new guy float for quite a while.

[Blueface]

yellow tangs can be territorial. Not nearly as bad as the purple or black tangs but is let the new guy float for quite a while.

Believe it or not, black are more docile. Mine is a nice guy.
Purple is the worst.

For acclamation, what I always did for customers and myself is use a large enough plastic container, with holes drilled all over it, with a lid.
Place the new fish in the bottle as it sits in the tank (as otherwise you won't have water in it with the holes).
Place the container in a corner or behind a rock where the fish is less stressed.
Aggressors will see him and think he is free and about to beat up on and they will stare him down a while.
Leave him in there overnight or until you no longer see aggression towards him but best at least one overnight.

[Wolfgang]

Diddnt you have to put your black tang in the time out container to allow another fist to become acclimated?

[Blueface]

Diddnt you have to put your black tang in the time out container to allow another fist to become acclimated?

I may have had to perhaps once. Don't recall. Certainly not more than that. Then agsin, he was much smaller the last time I added any fish, which is years now.
He is actually one of the most peaceful tangs I ever recall. I only have two in the tank with the other being a very large Red Sea Blonde Naso.

99% of the time, the new one did the time in the container.
Seems to have always worked well with a rare exception.

[BC-Axeman]

I was hoping you would chime in, Carlos. I remember that procedure from somewhere earlier in this thread.

[Blueface]

Also, what always goes a long way is to also shuffle some rocks around if possible.
Difficult to do with well established reefs but if possible, what it does is confuse the current inhabitants and they spend their quality time finding a new home rather than bothering the new inhabitant.
This clearly works much better with non reef tanks with bleached corals as my tank as easier to shift things around.

[Wolfgang]

I feel the need to add some more fishies to my 90 now :(

[jjirons69]

Take it slow. Reefs are like race cars the faster you go the harder you crash.

Awesome analogy!!

[Blueface]

I feel the need to add some more fishies to my 90 now :(

Just like condoms for sex, Quarantine is a must if adding new fish.
What a freaking analogy. :r

[BC-Axeman]

I just traded some rhodactis and other frags for a frogspawn. Bought a few more hermit crabs and snails while I was there. I saw a candy coral called kryptonite that was extremely bright fluorescent green. My tank is too full right now.
I think the frogspawn will be able to fight back the rhodactis. This will be easier than trying to kill it.

[Wolfgang]

Just like condoms for sex, Quarantine is a must if adding new fish.
What a freaking analogy. :r

Very nice! :banger

I just traded some rhodactis and other frags for a frogspawn. Bought a few more hermit crabs and snails while I was there. I saw a candy coral called kryptonite that was extremely bright fluorescent green. My tank is too full right now.
I think the frogspawn will be able to fight back the rhodactis. This will be easier than trying to kill it.

Sounds like a green nepthea (sp?) in the picture the polyps are closed.

http://home.comcast.net/~jbrigman/pics/nepthea.jpg

[BC-Axeman]

Very nice! :banger



Sounds like a green nepthea (sp?) in the picture the polyps are closed.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ejbrigman/pics/nepthea.jpg
Same color but it was large polyp. Looked just like candy coral.

[shilala]

Another $50.00 down the reef chute. :D
I broke a canopy the other day. I went to the pet store here and picked one up, it's too short so I have to take it back. I found the exact replacement at Foster & Smith (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3781).
Why I don't just shop there in the first place, I'll never know. I absolutely love that outfit. :tu
I was gonna get new t5 bulbs too, but I don't know if I'm ready for them yet. If the critters are any indication of whether they're okay or not, they're great. The ends of the tubes look good, too.
I think I just changed them when I moved here because I had an extra brand new set.

Brings me to a question...
Where can I get t5 bulbs on the cheap, or do I just order them from Foster and Smith? I have this light (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18700). It's the 48" model. Everyone tells me these lights last 8 months, but Foster Smith says 18 months to two years. What should I think?

[shilala]

My fixture is actually a 432 watt 8 lamp fixture, but it's the same one shown in the link I put up there. Not sure why it's different, I got it quite a few years ago.
I just looked at the tubes, they definately need replaced. I am not excited about paying $170.00 for lightbulbs. Really. *barf*

[Wolfgang]

Unfortunately thats what I pay for bulbs too. Hopefully somone will have a better source. I m stuck using 6 54 watt t5's

[OLS]

I am not sure there IS a cheap lamp place that I would trust to actually sell what they claim to be selling.
While it has no crushing effect on the corals per se, it will encourage algal growth which no one wants.
So Foster and Smith are telling you about the "lifetime' of the lamp, you want to stay focused on the actual
spectral-accuracy life of the lamp. Which is about half of the actual life of the lamp. If it was just for room light,
who would care? But of course it's not. And of course, you KNOW this, I am just reminding you. How was
that last algae outbreak, lol. You KNOW reef-keeping is ridiculously expensive. Pouring perfectly good salty water
down the drain, lamps, replacement corals and fish for all the ones we kill. It's hell, :r

Sadly it's just about time for me to have to change out lamps, too. I save them though, in case I ever need to
grow weed.

[BC-Axeman]

I am not sure there IS a cheap lamp place that I would trust to actually sell what they claim to be selling.
While it has no crushing effect on the corals per se, it will encourage algal growth which no one wants.
So Foster and Smith are telling you about the "lifetime' of the lamp, you want to stay focused on the actual
spectral-accuracy life of the lamp. Which is about half of the actual life of the lamp. If it was just for room light,
who would care? But of course it's not. And of course, you KNOW this, I am just reminding you. How was
that last algae outbreak, lol. You KNOW reef-keeping is ridiculously expensive. Pouring perfectly good salty water
down the drain, lamps, replacement corals and fish for all the ones we kill. It's hell, :r

Sadly it's just about time for me to have to change out lamps, too. I save them though, in case I ever need to
grow weed.
What he said!

Time for new lamps here too. I haven't found a better place than Drs. Foster & Smith yet.

[shilala]

I am not sure there IS a cheap lamp place that I would trust to actually sell what they claim to be selling.
While it has no crushing effect on the corals per se, it will encourage algal growth which no one wants.
So Foster and Smith are telling you about the "lifetime' of the lamp, you want to stay focused on the actual
spectral-accuracy life of the lamp. Which is about half of the actual life of the lamp. If it was just for room light,
who would care? But of course it's not. And of course, you KNOW this, I am just reminding you. How was
that last algae outbreak, lol. You KNOW reef-keeping is ridiculously expensive. Pouring perfectly good salty water
down the drain, lamps, replacement corals and fish for all the ones we kill. It's hell, :r

Sadly it's just about time for me to have to change out lamps, too. I save them though, in case I ever need to
grow weed.
"The average life of T-5 tubes is 2 years, with the blue/actinic spectrum lamps lasting up to 18 months. 12000°K." are Dr Foster and Smith's words.
Your "spectral accuracy" comment is what I was looking for, Brad.

I guess I just kind of doubt the half-life idea. I tipped back my light to find a couple lamps with crusties floating around, and one actinic dead. Others looked new. Maybe I replaced half of them?
My doubt comes from:
1.) Dr. Foster and Smith are real straight shooters. If the lights were half good in half the time, they'd say so.
2.) Reef Keepers are even more painfully anal than cigar keepers, and Lord knows we have tons of rules we follow about ten steps past reasonably necessary.
3.) My corals are doing great, and are growing out of control.
4.) The corals I bought from other folks have totally changed from listless and colorless to colorful and full in no time.

My brown hair problem is all but solved. It was my fault. I had unhooked my ro/di unit and let it sit around for a couple months. That wrecks the membrane. It's even in my literature, I just never read it. :D
All I needed to do is fix my water, and that fixed the problem.

If my lights are 8x54w. that's be 432 watts or 4.8 w/gal. if my lights are at half the efficacy at half the life (let's say 8 months to a year), I'd probably be looking at 2.4 watts/gal, although I'm sure they don't curve down evenly.
Heck, it'd be worth wasting the money on one of those luminometers ;) or whatever they call light measuring devices for the tank. You'd pay for it in no time with bulbs.

Based on my poorly informed argument, and knowing you've likely read volumes of painful tests and tech specs on this stuff, and knowing you're not gonna accept any suggestion that costs lots of money without a fight, how'd you get okay with the "bulbs are shot in half the time they say so" thing, Brad?
Know that this is a big leap for me. Normally I'd not believe anyone without doing the due diligence, but I know you're just as mental as I am, so I find it hard to believe you've accepted this without a fight. I can be okay with that. :D

[shilala]

I suppose another questions is "what brand are you t-5er's using?"
I continue to use Current, which was SlimPaq, which is now TrueLumen.

Bulbs are right here (http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=2459&c=3578) if you guys wanna shop.
Mark, you and I are using the same bulbs. My fixtures uses 8 54w t5's.

[BC-Axeman]

I just ordered two 400w 14K HIDs and two 65w actinic CFs for $160.

I read somewhere on the webz where someone measured the spectrum over the life of an HID and found it stayed pretty constant for a while and then shifted quickly long before the intensity dropped significantly. I have no recollection of anything like that for CFs or T5s but you can see the ends blacken on them so you know something is changing.

[shilala]

I just ordered two 400w 14K HIDs and two 65w actinic CFs for $160.

I read somewhere on the webz where someone measured the spectrum over the life of an HID and found it stayed pretty constant for a while and then shifted quickly long before the intensity dropped significantly. I have no recollection of anything like that for CFs or T5s but you can see the ends blacken on them so you know something is changing.
See, mine aren't blackened at all, and I've never let them get that far. I don't even know if t5's will blacken on the ends.

[BC-Axeman]

My CFs take about a year to blacken. I have T5s on the freshwater tank but don't pay attention to them.

[BC-Axeman]

Found this. (http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200112/msg00657.html)
Maybe I'll convert my system to T5s.

[BC-Axeman]

After a little pricing things out I think I'm O.K. with my setup.

[shilala]

Found this. (http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200112/msg00657.html)
Maybe I'll convert my system to T5s.
I worked at Sylvania in St. Mary's, PA a number of times over the years. Lots of time it was for long periods. They made me say "lamp" and it still gets me. No one knows what I'm talking about when I say lamp. :D

I'm very inclined to believe the email verbatiim. I can't even begin of a reason why someone would make all that stuff up, especially if they have nothing to gain.

If you wondeer if Sylvania really tests bulbs, I can tell you that the right rear of the St. Mary's plant has a GIANT area devoted solely to burning and testing lamps. I can't even take a guess at how many lamps are in there, or how many hours they've been burning, but there's also guages and dials everywhere. They burn lots of lamps there that they don't even make at that plant, so they must be a regional tester? Don't know.

I think I'll pull my hood off tonight and work on it a bit. Lisa agreed to help me. I'll replace what tubes look like they need replacing, and put a label on the hood so I know what I changed and when. I might just go ahead and replace everything if enough are rough looking, and get a fresh start. :tu

Pending Brad's input. :D

[BC-Axeman]

lol ;)

[shilala]

I decided to go ahead and replace all my bulbs, throw away the two that are shot, and keep the rest. I'm going to make use of the awesome packaging F&S sends to store the old bulbs.
I think what happened is last time I replaced 6 of the 8 lamps cause I checked online and that's what it said the light used, I never even looked. That'd make sense as to why two are shot and 6 look great. (Online it says my fixture uses six bulbs, so I imagine that's what I ordered.)
Lisa says she thinks I replaced the bulbs last year around Christmas. I seem to think that's about right.

[OLS]

Haha, you know me, got to SOUND superior if I can't BE superior. I always used the term lamp, cause in TV
we are always replacing tungsten lamps in our fixtures when someone trips over a wire and drags a light stand
to the floor with a crash and a pop and a flash of light. I ought to know I have blown up more than my share.
When you pay 3 for a dollar it's a bulb. When you pay 45 dollars for one, it's a LAMP, lol. But hearing that,
I would imagine that it could well be true that the last time I was actively buying lamps it was in the HO SHO days,
and I got my knowledge from that time of the hobby. Now I need to update my BS to match the reality, although
it would stand to reason that there was spectral shift if all of a sudden out of nowhere you are growing hair algae
like a hermit. Of course, there are 10 other reasons that could all be in play, lol. I DO save all my old lamps,
cause in my heart I do not believe a lamp is dead til you drop it or it gets a flicker and a black end on it. :r

[OLS]

Oh and Scott, just because I spout something doesn't mean I ACCEPTED it, hahaha.
I have a reef cycle that makes me one of the bad people. I have a great reef until
my laziness just gets out of control and everything degrades. Same is true with lamps.
I HAVE three changes of lamps, cause I bought them on closeout. BUT I will replace
them all after one year. Then in three years, I am just gonna put the first set back in, hahaha.

[shilala]

Thanks, my brother. :tu
I still didn't order lamps, I was waiting for you to weigh in.
My hair algae bloom was due to moving, plus I let my ro/di unit lay around for a couple months all full of water and it wrecked the membrane. All I did was order new guts for it and replace 60 gallons of water (so far) and my hair algae problem is gone.
The brown diatom goo is almost history, too.

I talked to Lisa and we figured we'd get all the bulbs, then keep the six that are still fine. It makes sense since we have a fresh start on everything. If I have a burnout, I'll just replace it with one of the lamps I put in storage, I figure.

I'm absolutely amazed at what my corals are doing now that I've righted all my screwups. My tongue coral is ready to crawl out the tank. It's HUGE. Everything else is just going wild. If I improve the lighting, it'll only get better.
My new glass top is coming today, too. It'll replace the one I broke.

So all is well in fish land once again.
Thanks for all the help, Brad. I genuinely do appreciate your input and your knowledge, it means a lot to me. It helps to know how it used to be done, and why. The "why" is the biggest part. If I know why I'm doing what I'm doing, I can make anything work. You're where I get my "why?" :tu

[OLS]

You're where I get my "why?" :tuWell then you are FU@#*& son. :r Fish killer, lol. I am not sure how I killed my last outbreak of hair and
purple slime. I DO know that changing over to the 20 long made it necessary to replace 95% of the
water, derh, maybe that had something to do with it, lol. I swear I took my lettuce coral from one
barely living polyp to almost being back to full size. I was shocked that it re-encrusted the old skeleton
like that, I am sure it's not using the old holes, but who knows. I hate having this albatross
around my neck, especially as I get close to wanting sdesparately to move out of this town.
But I look at the various items still with me and think, "ehh, they're worth it."

[BC-Axeman]

When you pay 3 for a dollar it's a bulb. When you pay 45 dollars for one, it's a LAMP, lol. :r
'Zackly!
In electronics it's always a lamp, a bulb is an envelope. :D