Tom Brady

[AdamJoshua]

:lr

EOM

[Remo]

I think a couple of equipment guys will be looking for new jobs "**** Tom" :r

[AdamJoshua]

Maybe they can sell some of the valuable merch they received :lr

[The Poet]

Those texts certainly are deflating.

[AdamJoshua]

bahzinga!

[ksknnr]

Still one of the best of all time, 4 rings!

[E.J.]

I admittedly have not read the texts, just heard them read on sports radio, but is there a chance they were having locker room talk? Not really uncommon to say those things, not actually thinking it to be true. Things like "f him, he'll be throwing rugby balls if he doesn't hook me up with shoes" sounds like could be banter to me.

If not, those guys won't be at work tomorrow.

So is cheating by illegally having your balls under inflated, just like cheating by taking stuff that deflates your balls?

[AdamJoshua]

I admittedly have not read the texts, just heard them read on sports radio, but is there a chance they were having locker room talk? Not really uncommon to say those things, not actually thinking it to be true. Things like "f him, he'll be throwing rugby balls if he doesn't hook me up with shoes" sounds like could be banter to me.

If not, those guys won't be at work tomorrow.

So is cheating by illegally having your balls under inflated, just like cheating by taking stuff that deflates your balls?

It doesn't look good..

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12833542/wells-report-finds-new-england-patriots-probably-deflated-balls

I do like this one...

McNally: Tom sucks...im going make that next ball a f----- balloon

:lr

[E.J.]

Reading those few texts, seems like banter, not malicious.

[AdamJoshua]

I think it just depends your point of view, I think the damning part is the number of texts and calls between him and Brady right after it all went public, you can say that's natural maybe Brady was asking him what the hell happened and if he knew anything, then again if that was the case you'd think Brady would just turn over the phone / texts. Either way my team still sucks and this isn't going to change that.

Now if you want to talk, 'tuck rule'.

Go Raiders! :lr

[E.J.]

No, I 100% believe that Brady ask for the balls to be illegally deflated and the EM did that. I just think the EM saying "F Tom" and "Tom Sucks" was banter, not malicious, but locker room talk, banter stuff.

[AdamJoshua]

Oh I took those for two guys saying "**** him.." like anyone does to their boss or whatever, talking ****, one step above banter, but the texts about getting the gear and stuff are kind.. that

SCORE CAPPSSSS!!!!

[Subvet642]

I just read the findings from the NFL. The report used the words "probably" and "generally". Evil times indeed when someone can be convicted, in a sense, based on what sounds like...nothing. It's disappointing that rules and procedures are applied in ways unique to the Patriots.

I've met Mr. Kraft. He is one of the most decent, honest, generous people walking the face of the Earth. He does more for charity than anyone knows. He funds medical research labs, among many other things. He shovels ridiculous amounts of money into it. There are a million other things he does that no one sees. You can believe every word he says.

Patriots CEO Robert Kraft released a statement on Wednesday. You can read it in its entirety below:

When I addressed the media at the Super Bowl on January 26 -- over 14 weeks ago -- I stated that I unconditionally believed that the New England Patriots had done nothing inappropriate in this process or in violation of the NFL rules and that I was disappointed in the way the league handled the initial investigation. That sentiment has not changed.

I was convinced that Ted Wells' investigation would find the same factual evidence supported by both scientific formula and independent research as we did and would ultimately exonerate the Patriots. Based on the explanations I have heard and the studies that have been done, I don't know how the science of atmospheric conditions can be refuted or how conclusions to the contrary can be drawn without some definitive evidence.

What is not highlighted in the text of the report is that three of the Colts' four footballs measured by at least one official were under the required psi level. As far as we are aware, there is no comparable data available from any other game because, in the history of the NFL, psi levels of footballs have never been measured at halftime, in any climate. If they had been, based on what we now know, it is safe to assume that every cold-weather game was played with under inflated footballs. As compelling a case as the Wells Report may try to make, I am going to rely on the factual evidence of numerous scientists and engineers rather than inferences from circumstantial evidence. Throughout the process of this nearly four-month investigation, we have cooperated and patiently awaited its outcome. To say we are disappointed in its findings, which do not include any incontrovertible or hard evidence of deliberate deflation of footballs at the AFC Championship Game, would be a gross understatement. In addition, given our level of cooperation throughout the process, I was offended by the comments made in the Wells Report in reference to not making an individual available for a follow-up interview. What the report fails to mention is that he had already been interviewed four times and we felt the fifth request for access was excessive for a part-time game day employee who has a full-time job with another employer.

While I respect the independent process of the investigation, the time, effort and resources expended to reach this conclusion are incomprehensible to me. Knowing that there is no real recourse available, fighting the league and extending this debate would prove to be futile. We understand and greatly respect the responsibility of being one of 32 in this league and, on that basis, we will accept the findings of the report and take the appropriate actions based on those findings as well as any discipline levied by the league

[The Poet]

I just read the findings from the NFL. The report used the words "probably" and "generally". Evil times indeed when someone can be convicted, in a sense, based on what sounds like...nothing. It's disappointing that rules and procedures are applied in ways unique to the Patriots.

[/I]

Didn't I hear this before? No, wait . . . that was A-Rod's lawyer. Never mind.

[AdamJoshua]

I just read the findings from the NFL. The report used the words "probably" and "generally". Evil times indeed when someone can be convicted, in a sense, based on what sounds like...nothing. It's disappointing that rules and procedures are applied in ways unique to the Patriots.

There's an article out there where they point out that those are the terms the NFL uses when they are sure there were infractions, for whatever reason, legal maybe, that's just how they do it.

[Subvet642]

There's an article out there where they point out that those are the terms the NFL uses when they are sure there were infractions, for whatever reason, legal maybe, that's just how they do it.

How convenient that they've re-codified ambiguity into certainty; if they think it's true, then it must be, science to the contrary. They don't even have to utter the damning words. Further, if they have to parse words to avoid legal issues, then I contend that they know they're being unjust. That's as slimy as it gets.

[massphatness]

This report is going to be viewed based on the color of your laundry. If you wear Patriot gear, you're going to have a huge problem with it. For fans of the 31 other teams, this is more proof that the organization is comprised serial cheaters and all Super Bowl victories should come with an asterisk attached.


As a Bills fan in Pats land, it's fun to watch the talking heads of Boston sports trip all over themselves rump swabbing Belichik and Brady.

[Subvet642]

Let's see if the NFL will pressure test ALL footballs in the future; before, during and after the games. I suspect the other owners wouldn't like it so I don't think we'll be seeing any of that.

[E.J.]

Darren,
You sound like the defenders of Lance Armstrong or Barry Bonds. It's obvious they deflated the balls at the direction on Brady. Doesn't matter if Kraft knew, doesn't matter if Bielchik knew.... I really couldn't care less that they did it, didn't care about the filming, didn't care about Barry Bonds or Lance either. But trying to say any of them didn't cheat due to wording in a report or the charity of their sponsors/owners is a bit amusing.

Seems easiest stance of Pats fans here is, "Great, don't care. I'm happy we won another Super Bowl." Defending this or acting like it isn't or may not be true is just amusing for those who have no horse in the race.

[dave]

I think a couple of equipment guys will be looking for new jobs "**** Tom" :r

They aren't going to need to work. They're about to become quite rich. Question is who's going to write the paycheck? TB/BB? Or TMZ/ESPN?

[Subvet642]

Darren,
You sound like the defenders of Lance Armstrong or Barry Bonds. It's obvious they deflated the balls at the direction on Brady. Doesn't matter if Kraft knew, doesn't matter if Bielchik knew.... I really couldn't care less that they did it, didn't care about the filming, didn't care about Barry Bonds or Lance either. But trying to say any of them didn't cheat due to wording in a report or the charity of their sponsors/owners is a bit amusing.

Seems easiest stance of Pats fans here is, "Great, don't care. I'm happy we won another Super Bowl." Defending this or acting like it isn't or may not be true is just amusing for those who have no horse in the race.

As a Pagan I know a Witch hunt when I see one.

[The Poet]

Denial and anger are the first two stages of grief. Some never get beyond those.

[AdamJoshua]

Let's see if the NFL will pressure test ALL footballs in the future; before, during and after the games. I suspect the other owners wouldn't like it so I don't think we'll be seeing any of that.

They have already changed how the balls are handled (phrasing), who has access and when they check them, so going forward it's going to be a non-issue.




As a Bills fan in Pats land, it's fun to watch the talking heads of Boston sports trip all over themselves rump swabbing Belichik and Brady.

Just a man and his Buffalo .. Bills.

[Subvet642]

Denial and anger are the first two stages of grief. Some never get beyond those.

Ya know, I don't really watch football, much but injustice bothers me, a lot. I would hate to be subject to punishment of any kind based on something as flimsy as "probably" or "generally". We're taking about possibly many thousands of dollars in fines. If you're going to reach into someone's pocket, it is monstrously unjust to do it without actual proof, otherwise it's just robbery. And to hide behind quasi-legal ambiguity is beyond cowardly. The Pats were found guilty because the 31 other owners wanted it that way, period. If you can't beat them on the field, then beat them in the Boardroom.

This anger is just an adjunct to all kinds of other, non-related anger. :tf

[shilala]

Adam, I don't think we're doing "phrasing" anymore.

[mosesbotbol]

I don't feel any punishment should happen to Tom Brady. If NFL wants to fine the Pats or take a draft pick; that's fine. In the end the NFL knows this was just low lying fruit for them to save face with all the bad publicity they've had in recent years.

Take down your crown jewels to pretend there's integrity to the league... What a joke.

[The Poet]

Ya know, I don't really watch football, much but injustice bothers me, a lot. I would hate to be subject to punishment of any kind based on something as flimsy as "probably" or "generally". We're taking about possibly many thousands of dollars in fines. If you're going to reach into someone's pocket, it is monstrously unjust to do it without actual proof, otherwise it's just robbery. And to hide behind quasi-legal ambiguity is beyond cowardly. The Pats were found guilty because the 31 other owners wanted it that way, period. If you can't beat them on the field, then beat them in the Boardroom.

This anger is just an adjunct to all kinds of other, non-related anger. :tf

I don't feel any punishment should happen to Tom Brady. If NFL wants to fine the Pats or take a draft pick; that's fine. In the end the NFL knows this was just low lying fruit for them to save face with all the bad publicity they've had in recent years.

Take down your crown jewels to pretend there's integrity to the league... What a joke.

Again, I can't help but wonder what you said about A-Rod. :r

[shilala]

I thought Aroid got over-punished and spectacalized.

[Subvet642]

Again, I can't help but wonder what you said about A-Rod. :r

He's a purse slapping Yankee. Isn't that enough? But he wouldn't make a patch in Jeter's @ss. Jeter's a class act, A-Rod, not so much. :D

Seeing as this whole thing was precipitated through a sting by Indianapolis, they better check the fans at Gillette for batteries when Indy comes to town.

[Porch Dweller]

Take down your crown jewels to pretend there's integrity to the league... What a joke.

Yup.
I have a friend who's a Seahawks fan who was droning on and on about "Belicheat" in the week leading up to the Super Bowl. I put this on his Facebook page:
"Pete Carroll left USC ahead of a NCAA investigation that would ultimately strip USC of a national championship amid a scandal that was so systemic that the Sporting News wrote '...justice won't truly be served until the only coaching Carroll ever does entails holding an Xbox controller.' Since moving on to Seattle, Carroll's Seahawks have led the NFL in number of players being suspended for PED violations. In August 2014, Carroll and the Seahawks were fined over $300K for violating the league's CBA and will also lose two mini-camps in 2015.
Shouldn't Pete Carroll be re-named 'Cheat Carroll'? Glass houses, dude, glass houses."

He never responded or mentioned "Belicheat" again.

So, now that the Patriots investigation is done I assume the league will be going after Green Bay and Aaron Rodgers. To refresh, Rodgers bragged in an interview that he sneaks over-inflated balls (phrasing) into games.

[Porch Dweller]

Adam, I don't think we're doing "phrasing" anymore.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.8YTypib6QmA1gM22vdxBMg&pid=15.1&P=0

[The Poet]

He's a purse slapping Yankee. Isn't that enough? But he wouldn't make a patch in Jeter's @ss. Jeter's a class act, A-Rod, not so much. :D

Seeing as it was precipitated through a sting by Indianapolis, they better check the fans at Gillette for batteries when Indy comes to town.

Three points here to address.

First, I don't like A-Rod, and won't defend him, beyond saying that giving him 3X the punishment meted out to those who DID fail a PED test when he DID NOT seemed extreme, especially when this punishment was largely based upon the testimony of a confessed criminal who offered his testimony to ameliorate his own punishment by throwing A-Rod under the bus. But to accuse the NFL of going after Brady because he is a Patriot while simultaneously applauding MLB for going after A-Rod because he is a Yankee is specious nonsense, especially in light of the fact that A-Rod's only truly documented violation of PED use occurred when he was a Ranger, not a Yankee.

Second, no one in their right mind would put A-Rod's reputation on the same plane as Jeter's. Such would be nearly as foolish as was the 2006 assertions by Red Sox fans that Papelbom was a better closer than Rivera. :r

Lastly, be it offered jokingly or not, the threat of a violent unsportsmanlike reaction by Pats fans the next time the Colts visit Gillette is disturbing. However, given a history of such actions in Boston venues in the past, such a warning is not surprising in the least. Admittedly, Boston fans are not alone in this, but they certainly have an established track record of bad behavior.

[mhailey]

Tom cheated. period. That others have cheated as well is irrelevant as to whether or not he cheated. He should have his ring taken, fined, and forced to sit out a year without pay.

If I were a Colt player/owner/stakeholder I would sue Brady and the Patriots for fraud.

As to whether he should be punished based upon the assertion that he "probably" did this ....... well ..... that is the legal standard. Probable means it is more likely than not. It is the same standard when a person is sued in civil court. OJ Simpson was acquitted criminally because the standard was "beyond a reasonable doubt" but was found guilty civilly because the standard was "preponderance of the evidence" (or "more likely than not").

[JohnnyFlake]

Why is everyone looking at this with kid gloves on?

Cheating, is cheating, but "probably" doesn't cut it. If it could be proven, then Brady should be banned from football, forever, Period! If it cannot be proven, Circumstantial, is all B.S. - Let it go!!!

[mhailey]

I hate to say it, but "probably" is the only thing that cuts it. This is not a "beyond a reasonable doubt" case. It is a "preponderance of the evidence" case.

"In legal terms, a preponderance of evidence means that a party has shown that its version of facts, causes, damages, or fault is more likely than not the correct version, as in personal injury and breach of contract suits. This standard is the easiest to meet and applies to all civil cases unless otherwise provided by law.

The concept of “preponderance of the evidence” can be visualized as a scale representing the burden of proof, with the totality of evidence presented by each side resting on the respective trays on either side of the scale. If the scale tips ever so slightly to one side or the other, the weightier side will prevail. If the scale does not tip toward the side of the party bearing the burden of proof, that party cannot prevail." http://courts.uslegal.com/burden-of-proof/preponderance-of-the-evidence/

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence, and when it is enough to tip the scales in one direction or another, then it prevails.

Aaron Hernandez was convicted of murder based upon "circumstantial evidence."

EDIT: Aaron was a patriot too, wasn't he??

[Porch Dweller]

Wow, people REALLY get their feelings hurt over silly games played by multi-millionaires, don't they?
I mean lawsuits? Really?!? For violating just one of the many, many rules in the rule book? If an offensive lineman gets away with a couple of holds in a game (a game his team would have won anyway) do you guys call for lifetime bans for him? Do you think the losing team should sue? Do you demand he sit out a year without pay? I suppose we should ban linemen from the game, period, seeing that their unofficial motto is "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'."

Perspective, folks...sometimes you lose it when you're on a high horse.

[mhailey]

Wow, people REALLY get their feelings hurt over silly games played by multi-millionaires, don't they?
I mean lawsuits? Really?!? For violating just one of the many, many rules in the rule book? If an offensive lineman gets away with a couple of holds in a game (a game his team would have won anyway) do you guys call for lifetime bans for him? Do you think the losing team should sue? Do you demand he sit out a year without pay? I suppose we should ban linemen from the game, period, seeing that their unofficial motto is "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'."

Perspective, folks...sometimes you lose it when you're on a high horse.

There is a difference between committing a hold during the heat of battle and the premeditation involved with deflating balls to give your entire team a game long advantage in a sudden death playoff with millions of dollars on the line. Also, there are punishments set forth in the rules for a hold, pass interference, and other on-field infractions (loss of yards, downs, etc... ). I have not found a punishment set forth in the rules for willfully manipulating equipment to give your team an unfair advantage.

[mhailey]

I stand corrected, there is a penalty set forth for altering footballs. "including, but not limited to, a fine of $25,000.” The "not limited to" portion of the penalty leave it open for harsher penalties. The minimum is a $25,000 fine, and it can get worse.

[icehog3]

I say chop his ****ing head off. Would that satisfy all the non-Patriot fans? :)

[The Poet]

I say chop his ****ing head off. Would that satisfy all the non-Patriot fans? :)

That's a touch harsh. Just bunk him with Hernandez for a time. :D

[mhailey]

I say chop his ****ing head off. Would that satisfy all the non-Patriot fans? :)

Not if he still has his deflated balls to play with? :gary

[Blueface]

I say chop his ****ing head off. Would that satisfy all the non-Patriot fans? :)

I say leave the head alone. Just cut balls. Poor Giselle.:r

[Porch Dweller]

I say chop his ****ing head off. Would that satisfy all the non-Patriot fans? :)

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.ZcchFI6owrkux5HA3ZtDyg&pid=15.1&P=0

[shilala]

I say chop his ****ing head off. Would that satisfy all the non-Patriot fans? :)
Why can't we all just get along?
WHAT ABOUT THE STARVING BABY SELAS!?!?!

[The Poet]

WHAT ABOUT THE STARVING BABY SELAS!?!?!

No worries. Tom and Giselle can make capes of their pelts.

[Porch Dweller]

Is baby Selas any relation to Monica Seles?

[AdamJoshua]

New York Daily News (they are a real paper right? :r ) is saying that Brady is going to be suspended and it will be announced next week. I'd take that with a big ol' grain of salt though, not like a NY paper would stir the pot on Brady...right? :lr

[Subvet642]

Three points here to address.

First, I don't like A-Rod, and won't defend him, beyond saying that giving him 3X the punishment meted out to those who DID fail a PED test when he DID NOT seemed extreme, especially when this punishment was largely based upon the testimony of a confessed criminal who offered his testimony to ameliorate his own punishment by throwing A-Rod under the bus. But to accuse the NFL of going after Brady because he is a Patriot while simultaneously applauding MLB for going after A-Rod because he is a Yankee is specious nonsense, especially in light of the fact that A-Rod's only truly documented violation of PED use occurred when he was a Ranger, not a Yankee.

Second, no one in their right mind would put A-Rod's reputation on the same plane as Jeter's. Such would be nearly as foolish as was the 2006 assertions by Red Sox fans that Papelbom was a better closer than Rivera. :r

Lastly, be it offered jokingly or not, the threat of a violent unsportsmanlike reaction by Pats fans the next time the Colts visit Gillette is disturbing. However, given a history of such actions in Boston venues in the past, such a warning is not surprising in the least. Admittedly, Boston fans are not alone in this, but they certainly have an established track record of bad behavior.

Papelbon isn't even as good a human being as Mo, few are; another class act. I wasn't threatening anything; I was just pointing out what is already well known: Boston fans are insane and now they're pissed-off. Up here, sports are like war.

[AdamJoshua]

I think aroid blew it when he was screaming how innocent he was and how he was going to sue "the **** out of" MLB... that's would seem to have made things a wee bit worse for him.

[The Poet]

Papelbon isn't even as good a human being as Mo, few are; another class act. I wasn't threatening anything; I was just pointing out what is already well known: Boston fans are insane and now they're pissed-off. Up here, sports are like war.

Darren, my friend, I did not in any way think you were uttering threats, and understood you referred to that certain nutbag segment of fans who can embarrass any franchise, from the pros down to T-ball. And I appreciate your honesty and candor as expressed here.

Well it's not quite as bad a problem here in the NYC area, despite the fact that we have more nuts and drunks than do most places. Perhaps it is because the 9 pro teams in the 4 major sports so split loyalties as to water it down somewhat, or perhaps it is because we are so jaundiced we just don't give a $#!+.

[Subvet642]

...OJ Simpson was acquitted criminally because the standard was "beyond a reasonable doubt" but was found guilty civilly because the standard was "preponderance of the evidence" (or "more likely than not").

At least the prosecutors in the O.J. case HAD evidence; The NFL doesn't. Furthermore, in a court of law, BOTH sides get to present evidence to an impartial jury or judge. The NFL was not REMOTELY impartial. The NFL ignored the science. Hell, we did the math right here on the Asylum and the math shows that it WAS the temperature that accounted for the pressure discrepancy. If WE can find it, then the NFL must have ignored it. Also, what about the under-inflated Indianapolis game balls? Three of their four were under-inflated. Oh yeah, That's right, nevermind.

[The Poet]

I think aroid blew it when he was screaming how innocent he was and how he was going to sue "the **** out of" MLB... that's would seem to have made things a wee bit worse for him.

You maybe expect wisdom out of his mouth? Remember this?

"Jeter's been blessed with great talent around him," Alex says. "He's never had to lead. He can just go and play and have fun. And he hits second—that's totally different than third and fourth in a lineup. You go into New York, you wanna stop Bernie and O'Neill. You never say, Don't let Derek beat you. He's never your concern."

Every Yankee fan does, fer shizzle. But back on topic, I've heard some damn dumb things come out of Tom Brady's maw too. :r

[Subvet642]

Darren, my friend, I did not in any way think you were uttering threats, and understood you referred to that certain nutbag segment of fans who can embarrass any franchise, from the pros down to T-ball. And I appreciate your honesty and candor as expressed here.

Well it's not quite as bad a problem here in the NYC area, despite the fact that we have more nuts and drunks than do most places. Perhaps it is because the 9 pro teams in the 4 major sports so split loyalties as to water it down somewhat, or perhaps it is because we are so jaundiced we just don't give a $#!+.

It's all good, Thomas. We know we're psycho. :tf I suppose sports is the only thing Bostonians can agree on; otherwise we'd kill each other. We get a little cranky.

[badbriar]

Cheating is cheating - period. The excuse by those at the top that they didn't know is a weak attempt to avoid responsibility. The owners, manager and QB need to man-up and take responsibility rather than slither away and let the worker bees take the heat. This goes for any team, any sport. It is very unlikely that the equipment guys did the deflating on their own. Sad that fans will support cheaters at all costs and minimize any wrong-doing. IMHO, this seriously tarnishes the status of a Super Bowl.
In many other sports, cheating of any kind can and does negate a win. Armstrong won by cheating and was stripped of his medals. In the Olympics, cheaters are stripped of medals. Why not the NFL? My fav teams are Denver and Tampa Bay, but if they cheated, they would deserve to be stripped of the win. Nobody should be exempted. My :2

[AdamJoshua]

Marshall Faulk brought up a couple good points when he was interviewed on a local radio station, it's almost not fair this all falls on Brady because every QB knows how they want the football including PSI, how the ball is a scruffed up, etc., It's when news hits outside the NFL things become issues, like the Saints and all the suspensions for things every team has done, it was just never public so they paid the price. He said a lot of QBs were upset that Brady played stupid like he knew nothing about the footballs even in general, not just the PSI, he lost a lot of league support with that line of defense. He also said he can't see the NFL suspending Brady because the Pats open the season Thursday night and Brady the Super Bowl MVP is the star attraction, never say never but it was really start the season with a let down for the fans and make the NFL look silly.

I don't know if I agree with the last point, but a lot of what he said made sense.

[icehog3]

When I joined the Asylum, I was told there would be no math.

[The Poet]

When I joined the Asylum, I was told there would be no math.

+1

[icehog3]

+1

I see what you did there.

Must have been the temperature.

[JohnnyFlake]

Marshall Faulk brought up a couple good points when he was interviewed on a local radio station, it's almost not fair this all falls on Brady because every QB knows how they want the football including PSI, how the ball is a scruffed up, etc., It's when news hits outside the NFL things become issues, like the Saints and all the suspensions for things every team has done, it was just never public so they paid the price. He said a lot of QBs were upset that Brady played stupid like he knew nothing about the footballs even in general, not just the PSI, he lost a lot of league support with that line of defense. He also said he can't see the NFL suspending Brady because the Pats open the season Thursday night and Brady the Super Bowl MVP is the star attraction, never say never but it was really start the season with a let down for the fans and make the NFL look silly.

I don't know if I agree with the last point, but a lot of what he said made sense.

I doubt seriously, that it would make the NFL look silly. I think there is a strong chance, it will give the message that the NFL will not tolerate the Star Player B.S. anymore!!!

[AdamJoshua]

Yes, I agree, it could go either way though. In this entire situation Brady refusing to turn over his phone or give them access to his texts is the only really damning thing to him personally. I would have said that I have noods of my wife on there and I don't want to delete them and you aren't going to see them. :r

[The Poet]

Yes, I agree, it could go either way though. In this entire situation Brady refusing to turn over his phone or give them access to his texts is the only really damning thing to him personally. I would have said that I have noods of my wife on there and I don't want to delete them and you aren't going to see them. :r

Yeah, because where else can one find nekkid pictures of Giselle? :r

[AdamJoshua]

Some excuse is better than no excuse! :lr

[Porch Dweller]

Cheating is cheating - period. The excuse by those at the top that they didn't know is a weak attempt to avoid responsibility. The owners, manager and QB need to man-up and take responsibility rather than slither away and let the worker bees take the heat. This goes for any team, any sport. It is very unlikely that the equipment guys did the deflating on their own. Sad that fans will support cheaters at all costs and minimize any wrong-doing. IMHO, this seriously tarnishes the status of a Super Bowl.
In many other sports, cheating of any kind can and does negate a win. Armstrong won by cheating and was stripped of his medals. In the Olympics, cheaters are stripped of medals. Why not the NFL? My fav teams are Denver and Tampa Bay, but if they cheated, they would deserve to be stripped of the win. Nobody should be exempted. My :2

I don't think it "tarnishes the status of a Super Bowl" one bit. AFTER the balls were noticed and inflated to within regulations the Pat's scored 28 unanswered points while shutting out the Colts. So it appears that the only time the Colts had a chance was when improper balls were in play. They should have kept their mouths shut and maybe they wouldn't have gotten utterly dominated in the second half. :D

I really don't know why people take this stuff so seriously.

[AdamJoshua]

This is a very interesting read, while I doesn't say the Pats are the only cheaters, it points that they could very well be the best at cheating, the interesting bit to me was the lack of Patriots fumbles from 2007 on. In 2006 the league changed the rules with the team on offense supplying the balls home and away, Manning and Brady both pushed for this as well as other players, so this isn't "oh the Patriots only wanted it for this reason", that aside, the number of fumbles SINCE that rule change for the Pats are almost impossibly low, this was also their run as a dynasty, the team that wins the turnover battle usually come out on top, as proven.

Excellent quick read and the links off to stats, etc.,


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2457244-sources-patriots-reputation-as-nfls-best-cheaters-made-them-a-target

Link to the Patriots stats on turnovers..

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2015/01/stats_show_the_new_england_patriots_became_nearly_ fumble_proof_after_a_2006.html



Spoiler- Remember 2007 is when the offense started to supply their own footballs.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/sports/sports_nut/2015/01/150126_SN_chart01.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg

[Porch Dweller]

You gotta keep in mind, though, that Belichek is utterly unforgiving of fumblers. Everyone on that team knows that if they put the ball on the ground they may not touch it again for weeks.

[icehog3]

Again with the math? Jiminy crickets.

[The Poet]

Again with the math? Jiminy crickets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ab8BOu4LE

[JohnnyFlake]

I don't think it "tarnishes the status of a Super Bowl" one bit. AFTER the balls were noticed and inflated to within regulations the Pat's scored 28 unanswered points while shutting out the Colts. So it appears that the only time the Colts had a chance was when improper balls were in play. They should have kept their mouths shut and maybe they wouldn't have gotten utterly dominated in the second half. :D

I really don't know why people take this stuff so seriously.

That is not the point!!!

[AdamJoshua]

You gotta keep in mind, though, that Belichek is utterly unforgiving of fumblers. Everyone on that team knows that if they put the ball on the ground they may not touch it again for weeks.

That MUST be it.

I suspect in that case, that the numbers won't change in the next couple of seasons. :2

[dijit]

I don't think it "tarnishes the status of a Super Bowl" one bit. AFTER the balls were noticed and inflated to within regulations the Pat's scored 28 unanswered points while shutting out the Colts. So it appears that the only time the Colts had a chance was when improper balls were in play. They should have kept their mouths shut and maybe they wouldn't have gotten utterly dominated in the second half. :D

I really don't know why people take this stuff so seriously.
SO let me start this with I am a Colts fan. I agree it doesnt tarnish the outcome of the game, or the Superbowl.

The issue in question is the integrity of the administration and more importantly the players who represent the NFL and are role models to future players and children. Are we letting these people tell them as long as they can figure out a way to get away with it then its ok to cheat? Do we allow them to teach our future that it isnt illegal unless you get caught? That there are no consequences for your actions?

Maybe Shannon Sharpe's analysis that if it was a mediocre player on a non-championship team in a smaller market the league would throw the book at him, but since it isnt they will likely slap his wrists and send him on his way.

I think overturning the win is out of line but I also think ignoring it is out of line.

[icehog3]

Yes! Yes! What about the children?!

[Porch Dweller]

"Integrity of the administration"? You mean the NFL administration that would have swept the Ray Rice incident under the table if it hadn't been for TMZ getting the footage? Yeah, they're a beacon of integrity. And I could type dozens of more examples, but won't waste my time. People either realize that the "Integrity of the administration" is a joke or willfully turn a blind eye to it so they can continue to enjoy football.

I know that I'm a cynical bastage, but I find it hard to believe that people actually think professional sports leagues act out of anything except for self-interest. I hate to burst people's bubbles, but when BILLIONS of dollars are at stake, people look for any advantage they can get. Hell, people will do that when hundreds of dollars are at stake.

And maybe it's my cynicism at work again, but when incidents occur - like Brady's Balls (phrasing) and there's an outcry of naive, self-righteous indignation over it, I can only shake my head at the cognitive dissonance that people engage in in order to avoid the truth about their favorite sport. Ray Lewis knows who savagely murdered two men, yet won't divulge that information to police in order to give the families of the slain closure and peace. Yet Ravens fans just kept cheering him on as he did his stupid, spastic dance before games. I found that disgusting. Ravens fans didn't...or did, yet wouldn't admit it to themselves as long as Lewis kept playing well.

Aaron Rodgers flat-out bragged about sneaking over-inflated balls into games. Unlike the NFL report on Brady with its constant use of "probably", and "perhaps", and "may have", and "possibly", Rodgers is unequivocally guilty of the infraction you all seem so upset about (lawsuits? REALLY?!?). No one cares. Packers fans on this board, do you care? Packers fans' response. (https://youtu.be/K8E_zMLCRNg)

As for "role models", I'll defer to George Carlin: "If your kid needs a role model and you ain't it, you're both ----ed."

If truly guilty, should Brady be punished? Sure. But to be blunt, some of the punishments people in this thread are advocating are utterly ridiculous (lifetime ban? REALLY?!?).

And, with that, I think I'm done with this topic. No offense meant to anyone, and peace...

[mosesbotbol]

The penalties should reflect the Pats as a whole, not Tom Brady. Draft pick and a fine is appropriate.

[dijit]

Yes I mean the NFL administration. They are the ones that will suspend a player for 4 games then 10 then lifetime for smoking a joint "because it presents the wrong image to our youth." Ricky Williams suspensions. I also understand that when there is $$ involved whether it be $ or $$$$$$ corruption is inevitable. I just want the NFL to act within reasonable bounds across the board. If drug use is against the law and warrants a 4 game suspension then ignoring a different rule printed in the same rule book should warrant a like penalty. I also agree those crying for a lifetime ban or suspension or hanging or firing squad need to take a vallium and reflect a little bit on reality. Finally no matter what anyone does children have hero's and role models besides their parents especially in this day of sensationalizing everything. My kids think their parents are their role models and then still have sports heroes they follow and whether I like to admit it or not they do impact their lives to some degree.

Maybe I am just the oddity that sees both sides of this and thinks the extremes to both sides are wrong.

[Blueface]

Right or wrong, problem is outside of a New England fan, the world seems to hate Brady. As much as I am on that majority side, repeated winners are hated. Repeated winners that are cheaters are hated yet more. Few outside a New England fan is sad by this development/findings.
As much as I am a Yankees fan, A-Rod is a cheater. Can't defend or respect him, regardless of level of punishment dished to him.

[Subvet642]

We can't have anyone that much better than anyone else, can we? :rolleyes:

Small people HATE to see others achieve because it diminishes them by comparison. It's Communist; you know, a hive mentality. No one must stand out. No one should be allowed any more honors than his brother. Everything belongs to the collective, body and soul, like insects. So what happens? Brady will be destroyed by the collective for his greatness and nothing more. They're like the football equivalent of Antonio Salieri. History has demonstrated many times before that collective mediocrity will always try to destroy individual greatness; not unlike the James Caan character in "Rollerball". And again I ask: what about the under-inflated game balls of Indianapolis that day?

[shilala]

The Borg. Ugh. I hate those hive bastages.

[mosesbotbol]

We can't have anyone that much better than anyone else, can we? :rolleyes:

Small people HATE to see others achieve because it diminishes them by comparison. It's Communist; you know, a hive mentality.

The nail the sticks out must be banged back down...

[AdamJoshua]

We can't have anyone that much better than anyone else, can we? :rolleyes:

Small people HATE to see others achieve because it diminishes them by comparison.

The Steelers won plenty of Superbowls and most people LOVE Bradshaw, he's a lovable country bumpkin with smoking hot daughters, I think the point is people see Brady as coddled and treated with white kid gloves. Tom got hurt change the rules, speaking of which is the tuck rule even a rule anymore, I think they used it for that one game and got rid of it, but it was more than enough to save the Patriots asses in that game.

[Subvet642]

The Steelers won plenty of Superbowls and most people LOVE Bradshaw, he's a lovable country bumpkin with smoking hot daughters, I think the point is people see Brady as coddled and treated with white kid gloves. Tom got hurt change the rules, speaking of which is the tuck rule even a rule anymore, I think they used it for that one game and got rid of it, but it was more than enough to save the Patriots asses in that game.


Yeeah, we're not very "bumpkin-ish" up here but it sounds to me like it's just personal animosity. Take a look at "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand and you'll see what I mean by my earlier statement.

One of the problems I have with football, in general; too many rule changes. Baseball changes rules about once every 45 years. Honestly, I don't think Football will survive with the lawsuits viz. head trauma and the like; it's too damned dangerous to avoid liability. Parents will eventually refuse to let their kids play and the schools will likely shut down programs as well; also to avoid liability. Little kids are getting their bells rung pretty badly and pediatricians are speaking out about it, loudly. Think about how that plays in court. Without new players to step up, the sport dies. We are a litigious society.

[The Poet]

Darren, you contend it is unfair to penalize Tom Brady because he is Tom Brady and a Patriot. OK. Does it not logically follow that it is equally unfair to coddle Tom Brady because he is Tom Brady and a Patriot?

[Blueface]

:DDarren, you contend it is unfair to penalize Tom Brady because he is Tom Brady and a Patriot. OK. Does it not logically follow that it is equally unfair to coddle Tom Brady because he is Tom Brady and a Patriot?

Bingo.
He is handsome, rich, talented, has won Super Bowls, has a Super Model wife so you love him.
He is handsome, rich, talented, has won Super Bowls, has a Super Model wife so you hate him.

Chit happens.:r

Someone commented on Bradshaw earlier. Seriously, who can hate him.? Guy is a nut job and a pisser. He lacks handsome and Super Model wife and therefore is only rich, talented and has won Super Bowls so therefore must be loved.

[Stephen]

When I joined the Asylum, I was told there would be no math.
Then what's all this talk about Asylum math, then?

[Stephen]

Small people HATE to see others achieve because it diminishes them by comparison. It's Communist; you know, a hive mentality. No one must stand out. No one should be allowed any more honors than his brother. Everything belongs to the collective, body and soul, like insects. So what happens? Brady will be destroyed by the collective for his greatness and nothing more. They're like the football equivalent of Antonio Salieri. History has demonstrated many times before that collective mediocrity will always try to destroy individual greatness; not unlike the James Caan character in "Rollerball". And again I ask: what about the under-inflated game balls of Indianapolis that day?
Ho-lee crap. If you listen close enough, one can almost hear the construction of Brady's cross. You'll have to concentrate though, as Darren's indignation almost drowns it out. Almost. ;)

[Tio Gato]

4 Games? I must of missed where he punched the footballs in an elevator or beat it with a stick.:confused:;s

[AdamJoshua]

4 Games for Brady
loss of 2016 first round pick
loss of 2017 fourth round pic
and $1,000,000 fine

(all of this before any appeals)

[AdamJoshua]

Yeeah, we're not very "bumpkin-ish" up here but it sounds to me like it's just personal animosity.

My entire family is from New England, straight from Europe, so don't know about that 'we" part. :r

http://i.imgur.com/8Mkd3Xe.jpg

(I just wanted an excuse to use that) :D

[The Poet]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqID3I1FVjDMAXLUsnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Cheech+and+Chong+Bailiff+Whack+His+Peepee&vid=f3fe01638a1fb8242d9a550aa9feac8f&l=00%3A06&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.T J1CSwWWwqzlUgEyUdEolQ%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DP 4yqbLHYbcI&tit=Bailiff+whack+his+PP&c=0&sigr=11bu2uugm&sigt=10kfnu0ch&sigi=11vdc735f&age=1316130462&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&tt=b

[Tio Gato]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqID3I1FVjDMAXLUsnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZW c0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=Cheech+and+Chong+Bailiff+Whack+His+Peepee&vid=f3fe01638a1fb8242d9a550aa9feac8f&l=00%3A06&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.T J1CSwWWwqzlUgEyUdEolQ%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DP 4yqbLHYbcI&tit=Bailiff+whack+his+PP&c=0&sigr=11bu2uugm&sigt=10kfnu0ch&sigi=11vdc735f&age=1316130462&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&tt=b

Well done sir.:r

[icehog3]

I am hoping appeal reduces it to 3 games, $950,000 and expulsion of the Patriots from the NFL.

Lighten up, Fanboys, I keed, I keed.

[Blueface]

I am hoping appeal reduces it to 3 games, $950,000 and expulsion of the Patriots from the NFL.

Lighten up, Fanboys, I keed, I keed.


:r

[Subvet642]

Darren, you contend it is unfair to penalize Tom Brady because he is Tom Brady and a Patriot. OK. Does it not logically follow that it is equally unfair to coddle Tom Brady because he is Tom Brady and a Patriot?

That would defy logic; I stated no such thing. I stated that it was unjust to convict ANYONE based on ambiguities.

This is what I wrote:

"Ya know, I don't really watch football much but injustice bothers me, a lot. I would hate to be subject to punishment of any kind based on something as flimsy as "probably" or "generally". We're taking about possibly many thousands of dollars in fines. If you're going to reach into someone's pocket, it is monstrously unjust to do it without actual proof, otherwise it's just robbery."

[Subvet642]

My entire family is from New England, straight from Europe, so don't know about that 'we" part. :r


I should have stipulated Boston.

[Subvet642]

Ho-lee crap. If you listen close enough, one can almost hear the construction of Brady's cross. You'll have to concentrate though, as Darren's indignation almost drowns it out. Almost. ;)

It is not I who is in the crucifixion business; you seem to have that well covered already.

[pnoon]

Seems some of the "discussion" is getting a bit personal.

I don't like closing threads. But I will if it doesn't remain civil.

:2

[The Poet]

As we are being civil here, Darren, I will assume you edited your quoted post by mere happenstance. :tu

[Subvet642]

As we are being civil here, Darren, I will assume you edited your quoted post by mere happenstance. :tu

I don't know what you mean by "edited". Are you talking about the comma? Please demonstrate where I wrote that:
"...it is unfair to penalize Tom Brady because he is Tom Brady and a Patriot."

[bobarian]

:bdh:bdh:bdh

[icehog3]

:bdh:bdh:bdh

Ray Rice?

[The Poet]

I tried to be nice and let it slide, but if you really insist on :bdh

We can't have anyone that much better than anyone else, can we? :rolleyes:

Small people HATE to see others achieve because it diminishes them by comparison. It's Communist; you know, a hive mentality. No one must stand out. No one should be allowed any more honors than his brother. Everything belongs to the collective, body and soul, like insects. So what happens? Brady will be destroyed by the collective for his greatness and nothing more. They're like the football equivalent of Antonio Salieri. History has demonstrated many times before that collective mediocrity will always try to destroy individual greatness; not unlike the James Caan character in "Rollerball". And again I ask: what about the under-inflated game balls of Indianapolis that day?

Ya know, I don't really watch football, much but injustice bothers me, a lot. I would hate to be subject to punishment of any kind based on something as flimsy as "probably" or "generally". We're taking about possibly many thousands of dollars in fines. If you're going to reach into someone's pocket, it is monstrously unjust to do it without actual proof, otherwise it's just robbery. And to hide behind quasi-legal ambiguity is beyond cowardly. The Pats were found guilty because the 31 other owners wanted it that way, period. If you can't beat them on the field, then beat them in the Boardroom.

This anger is just an adjunct to all kinds of other, non-related anger. :tf

[Subvet642]

I tried to be nice and let it slide, but if you really insist on :bdh

That Sir, is not the same thing. It would happen to anyone, any team that achieved as much. Had the, oh I don't know, Browns achieved as much, they would be the target and it would be just as slimy. My issue is the nebulous standard of "proof", not the Pats, as such. As I wrote, I don't really watch football much; I am a baseball fan. Someone once said that when society discovers just how much injustice we will take, that's just how much we're gonna get. As an aside, what does it say about the NFL's standard of justice when a batterer gets only a two game suspension? It says a lot.

And one more time: Why were the under-inflated Indy game balls seemingly ignored? Are they not subject to the same standards? That in itself points to extreme bias. Same day. Same rule. Same "infraction". Different results. One more thing: The Combined Gas Law precisely accounts for the pressure discrepancy as observed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_gas_law

[Blueface]

I could be wrong and if I am, please correct me.
The Indy balls were not affected. The balls were presented to the officials to be used for the game and after inspected, NE deflated them. I am confused as to how Indy deflated balls keeps coming up in this discussion as theirs were not deflated.

Also, repeat offenders are punished more severely. That happens in our legal system all the time. There is no argument NE is a repeat offender. I think the punishment is a clear message to the Patriots and the league that these types of unethical repeated offenses will not be tolerated.

[Subvet642]

I could be wrong and if I am, please correct me.
The Indy balls were not affected. The balls were presented to the officials to be used for the game and after inspected, NE deflated them. I am confused as to how Indy deflated balls keeps coming up in this discussion as theirs were not deflated.

Also, repeat offenders are punished more severely. That happens in our legal system all the time. There is no argument NE is a repeat offender. I think the punishment is a clear message to the Patriots and the league that these types of unethical repeated offenses will not be tolerated.

12.5 psi is the minimum allowed pressure. Page 73 of the Wells report states that the 4 randomly selected Indy balls after the game measured out at:

12.5 psi
12.1 psi
12.45 psi
12.35 psi

Where the Patriots balls measured out at:

13.15 psi
12.95 psi
12.95 psi
13.25 psi

:hm

[Blueface]

12.5 psi is the minimum allowed pressure. Page 73 of the Wells report states that the 4 randomly selected Indy balls after the game measured out at:

12.5 psi
12.1 psi
12.45 psi
12.35 psi

Where the Patriots balls measured out at:

13.15 psi
12.95 psi
12.95 psi
13.25 psi

:hm

Ahh....thanks.

Fear not, while there may be disagreement on level of punishment, I think many if not all will agree it will be reduced.

[mosesbotbol]

On appeal, Brady will be suspended 0-2 games is my prediction.

[14holestogie]

Here's a thought that may help explain the punishment.

Bill Clinton was not impeached for the BJ.
He was impeached for lying about it.

Yup, poor Tom. :fp2

[Subvet642]

Here's a thought that may help explain the punishment.

Bill Clinton was not impeached for the BJ.
He was impeached for lying about it.

Yup, poor Tom. :fp2

The Starr Report outlined a case for impeaching Clinton on 11 grounds, including perjury, obstruction of justice, witness-tampering, and abuse of power.

[Dave128]

12.5 psi is the minimum allowed pressure. Page 73 of the Wells report states that the 4 randomly selected Indy balls after the game measured out at:

12.5 psi
12.1 psi
12.45 psi
12.35 psi

Where the Patriots balls measured out at:

13.15 psi
12.95 psi
12.95 psi
13.25 psi

:hm

What were they at half time for the Patriots? Isn't that what started this entire debacle?

[AdamJoshua]

I should have stipulated Boston.

Born in breed in Boston, well my mother family was from Lynn, but father's side all Boston. ;)


Oh course I was the only southerner in the bunch I was born in Miami Beach, like all good Jews should be. Oi! :lr

[Dave128]

Born in breed in Boston, well my mother family was from Lynn, but father's side all Boston. ;)


Oh course I was the only southerner in the bunch I was born in Miami Beach, like all good Jews should be. Oi! :lr

We all knew you had issues......

[icehog3]

If only we could be so passionate about real issues.

[AdamJoshua]

We all knew you had issues......

I think my phone knows something I don't :lr

You know, Boston blue bloods and all. :banger

[Subvet642]

If only we could be so passionate about real issues.

Justice is a real issue, Admiral. If we continue to accept lower and lower standards of it that's just what we'll get; that's why I'm so passionate about it. The news has been filled with reports of people convicted of murder being released because they've been exonerated by DNA evidence. Those people were convicted by a pretty high standard, "beyond a reasonable doubt" and that standard failed as well. Innocent people lost decades of their lives. If we expect justice for ourselves we must be scrupulous about defending it in all cases, no matter how small. Eternal vigilance, as Jefferson said. :salute:

[massphatness]

Bill Clinton was not impeached for the BJ.


BJ's! Now that's what I'm talking about!

[AdamJoshua]

BJ's! Now that's what I'm talking about!

:np

:po

[mhailey]

We need to start a movement to protest this blatant and pervasive corruption.

OCCUPY NFL.

WE can make signs, camp out in parking lots of the stadiums, break out our grills and cook on our tailgates, put up shade canopies, entertain ourselves by throwing a football to each other, maybe paint team logos on our bodies. That will get the message out that we will not tolerate this injustice.

[SD Beerman]

BJ's! Now that's what I'm talking about!

Serious issues......

[Dave128]

12.5 psi is the minimum allowed pressure. Page 73 of the Wells report states that the 4 randomly selected Indy balls after the game measured out at:

12.5 psi
12.1 psi
12.45 psi
12.35 psi

Where the Patriots balls measured out at:

13.15 psi
12.95 psi
12.95 psi
13.25 psi

:hm

What were they at half time for the Patriots? Isn't that what started this entire debacle?


?????????????

[The Poet]

You're half right there, Adam. This thread is worthless. I'm out.

[14holestogie]

BJ's! Now that's what I'm talking about!

I talk about it a lot. That's as far as it goes. :gary

[Subvet642]

What were they at half time for the Patriots? Isn't that what started this entire debacle?

I've read the report and they were low. One of the problems is that the pressures measured before the game weren't recorded. Furthermore, the two gauges gave different readings as one had a bent needle. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but the sloppy evidence and low standard of proof remain inconclusive. The report in PDF is below:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CDwQFjAG&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnfllabor.files.wordpress.com%2F2 015%2F05%2Finvestigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf&ei=qiVSVdOVIMnjsAWmmoGICQ&usg=AFQjCNFr-OIWaahbc6cnT-XnJzWeDXaiGQ&bvm=bv.92885102,d.b2w&cad=rja

[Bruins Fan]

What a bag job..this was a set up and the Colts were in on it.That alone violates NFL rules.

Tom did not have to give up his cell phone all the phones that were given up belonged to the Patriots..so if Tom text them it would be on the company phones.

They got nothing, Krafty Bob is pissed and heads will roll!!!

This is not over by a longshot.

[Blueface]

A murderer, a cheater and a liar show up at a bar.
One bartender looks at the other and says "the Patriots are in town".

[icehog3]

If only we could be so passionate about real issues.

Justice is a real issue, Admiral. If we continue to accept lower and lower standards of it that's just what we'll get; that's why I'm so passionate about it. The news has been filled with reports of people convicted of murder being released because they've been exonerated by DNA evidence. Those people were convicted by a pretty high standard, "beyond a reasonable doubt" and that standard failed as well. Innocent people lost decades of their lives. If we expect justice for ourselves we must be scrupulous about defending it in all cases, no matter how small. Eternal vigilance, as Jefferson said. :salute:

While I understand the point you are trying to make, Darren, I would hardly equate people on death row with their life in the balance to an NFL quarterback who makes 20 mil a year bring suspended for 4 games. That is what I meant by "real" issues.

And as has been pointed out for others, Brady isn't subject to any criminal penalties for the alleged indiscretion, so the burden of prove would be preponderance of the evidence, rather than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" of said murder suspects.

No real horse in this race, just mildly amused how wound up people on both sides get about a sports issue like this. Reminds me of the Cubs-White Sox people.

[Subvet642]

While I understand the point you are trying to make, Darren, I would hardly equate people on death row with their life in the balance to an NFL quarterback who makes 20 mil a year bring suspended for 4 games. That is what I meant by "real" issues.

And as has been pointed out for others, Brady isn't subject to any criminal penalties for the alleged indiscretion, so the burden of prove would be preponderance of the evidence, rather than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" of said murder suspects.

No real horse in this race, just mildly amused how wound up people on both sides get about a sports issue like this. Reminds me of the Cubs-White Sox people.

My point above is that even high standards of proof fail. The standard of proof as displayed in the report doesn't rise above playground justice as it was based solely on the investigation, not a tribunal of any sort where both sides get to present evidence to an impartial adjudicator. It would be like the police deciding the guilt and punishment of whom they arrest. In this case the investigator, judge and jury were invested in a single entity. I think that's spooky on any level. He won't get paid during the suspension so four games adds up to 5 million dollars. The Constitution says:... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law... While it may not be a criminal penalty, It sure looks like one. Hell, the IRS has a higher standard.

[icehog3]

Hope he can still live on that 15 million he has left. :)

We just have different thoughts on how important this is in the grand scheme of things, but I don't begrudge you your feelings, Darren. If they suspended Jonathan Toews for scuffing pucks, I'd probably have an aneurism. :r

[AdamJoshua]

How about the 50+ un-investigated abuse charges against NFL players, I think I've heard enough about Tom's balls.

….

[BigAsh]

A murderer, a cheater and a liar show up at a bar.
One bartender looks at the other and says "the Patriots are in town".

now THAT'S funny!!!!:r

[JohnnyFlake]

Hey guys, you all need to clam down!

What difference does it now make! That's a quote.

It is what it is now and then what it will be, after the appeals are heard!

[pnoon]

Hey everybody:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKxr2PJ06Y4

[AdamJoshua]

Local DJ said if they really wanted to punish people they would force Brady to play for Cleveland and Bill should have to coach the Jags. :lr

[Blueface]

Local DJ said if they really wanted to punish people they would force Brady to play for Cleveland and Bill should have to coach the Jags. :lr

Screw that. Send Bill back to Cleveland with him. :r

[E.J.]

I think just for Darren et. al, the investigators should be granted subpoena power so they can get Tom's phone records, get all his texts related to this over the last 24 months. Put Tom, the EQM, the other cat & a few others in front of a grand jury and see how it shakes out.

I'm sure that Tom, his agent, the Pats ect. all would prefer the truth come out and clear Tom & the franchises name. Sure we'd see some "proof" then...unless this is a witch hunt...

[Blueface]

I think just for Darren et. al, the investigators should be granted subpoena power so they can get Tom's phone records, get all his texts related to this over the last 24 months. Put Tom, the EQM, the other cat & a few others in front of a grand jury and see how it shakes out.

I'm sure that Tom, his agent, the Pats ect. all would prefer the truth come out and clear Tom & the franchises name. Sure we'd see some "proof" then...unless this is a witch hunt...

You are right, except I think he may have used a private server and everything has been destroyed.
I may have facts confused.

[Stephen]

Ray Rice?
Michael Vick, branching out.

[Bruins Fan]

Brady is going to war..this guy kicks the NFL's ass!! :sl
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/Brady-hires-NFL-thorn-Kessler-for-legal-team

[markem]

Hey everybody:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKxr2PJ06Y4

Tom Brady could do that better even with deflated breasts.

[Stephen]

It is not I who is in the crucifixion business; you seem to have that well covered already.
Funny, I don't recall commenting one way or the other on this, "issue" but merely your overreaction to it.

[Stephen]

:np

:po
http://www.doyouremember.co.uk/uploads/Twb4gx81BJ-and-the-Bear21.jpg

(Yes, sadly enough I vaguely remember watching this show as a young kid. Don't judge me!)

[Stephen]

My point above is that even high standards of proof fail. The standard of proof as displayed in the report doesn't rise above playground justice as it was based solely on the investigation, not a tribunal of any sort where both sides get to present evidence to an impartial adjudicator. It would be like the police deciding the guilt and punishment of whom they arrest. In this case the investigator, judge and jury were invested in a single entity. I think that's spooky on any level. He won't get paid during the suspension so four games adds up to 5 million dollars. The Constitution says:... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law... While it may not be a criminal penalty, It sure looks like one. Hell, the IRS has a higher standard.
Okay...Where was your beef with all this during Bountygate?

[AdamJoshua]

You are right, except I think he may have used a private server and everything has been destroyed.
I may have facts confused.

:lr

[massphatness]

New billboards up in the New York area ...

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/jets-tom-shady-billboard.jpg

[stearns]

http://cbswzlx2.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/jest.jpg?w=420

[mosesbotbol]

New billboards up in the New York area ...

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/jets-tom-shady-billboard.jpg

How sad... Jets should worry about their own season first.

[Stephen]

https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11224277_10153317165989173_7934769519515821706_n.j pg?oh=e5dc4427d313f5ae6a9888fdc2eb1015&oe=560B0E2F

[Stephen]

https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11219146_926457404067615_1509092053967751881_n.jpg ?oh=6da980a0cba852e01dbbfe83e013afb8&oe=55D87EC1

[Subvet642]

Funny, I don't recall commenting one way or the other on this, "issue" but merely your overreaction to it.

I thought it sounded personal.

[Subvet642]

Okay...Where was your beef with all this during Bountygate?

As I had written a few places before, I don't really watch much football. I'm not very familiar with that. Was it the same BS procedure? What were your thoughts on that?

[Subvet642]

I think just for Darren et. al, the investigators should be granted subpoena power so they can get Tom's phone records, get all his texts related to this over the last 24 months. Put Tom, the EQM, the other cat & a few others in front of a grand jury and see how it shakes out.

I'm sure that Tom, his agent, the Pats ect. all would prefer the truth come out and clear Tom & the franchises name. Sure we'd see some "proof" then...unless this is a witch hunt...

Wow! Could you repeat that in a German accent? You would really grant subpoena power to a private entity? People so in love with force scare the hell out of me.

[E.J.]

Wow! Could you repeat that in a German accent? You would really grant subpoena power to a private entity? People so in love with force scare the hell out of me.

Sure! (In perfect German accent) - I think just for Darren et. al, the investigators should be granted subpoena power so they can get Tom's phone records, get all his texts related to this over the last 24 months. Put Tom, the EQM, the other cat & a few others in front of a grand jury and see how it shakes out.

I'm sure that Tom, his agent, the Pats ect. all would prefer the truth come out and clear Tom & the franchises name. Sure we'd see some "proof" then...unless this is a witch hunt...

[AdamJoshua]

I wouldn't say they need legal subpoena power, and as for being a private entity, this isn't a typical job, they sign contracts, they have a players union, they have rules they agree to abide by and there are suspensions, bans and fines for breaking those rules, this is the price you pay for the chance to be famous and make millions of dollars a year, this isn't exactly some shmuck that works at McDonalds and his supervisor wants to see his phone just for the hell of it.

[Blueface]

this isn't exactly some shmuck that works at McDonalds and his supervisor wants to see his phone just for the hell of it.

Hey!!! I resemble that remark and take offense to it. :r

[icehog3]

If the tone of this continues to be personal, this thread is going the way of the dinosaur.

[AdamJoshua]

Hey!!! I resemble that remark and take offense to it. :r

this is why God invented the "burner" phone, well for that and when your family is Taken!

[shilala]

It seems like every season a new drama plays out in the NFL.
I don't mean the human dramas like Ray Rice and Aaron Hernandez, but all these other things like Bountygate and deflated balls, etc., etc.

This goofiness puts talk back in the game that replaces all the talk that's missing because the game isn't nearly as awesome as it used to be.
I sometimes wonder if this stuff is scripted just so we have something to get passionate about since we no longer get to see guys like Lyle Alzado tearing someone's spine right out of their body.

Hating the Raiders was FUN.
Fussing about footballs and Brett Farve's weiner texts, not fun.

[icehog3]

Favre's wiener texts? Not fun?

Blasphemy.

[Blueface]

we no longer get to see guys like Lyle Alzado tearing someone's spine right out of their body.

That's how he greeted his very best friends. He did much worse to opposing players.:r

On a serious and inquisitive note, why is it that in the past, Roger Goodell has been the victim of severe criticism that he is too close to the owners.
Now, that it doesn't suit an influential owner, he is biased and should recluse himself from the appeal process.
Things that make you go..........WTF???

[AdamJoshua]

It seems like every season a new drama plays out in the NFL.
I don't mean the human dramas like Ray Rice and Aaron Hernandez, but all these other things like Bountygate and deflated balls, etc., etc.

This goofiness puts talk back in the game that replaces all the talk that's missing because the game isn't nearly as awesome as it used to be.
I sometimes wonder if this stuff is scripted just so we have something to get passionate about since we no longer get to see guys like Lyle Alzado tearing someone's spine right out of their body.

Hating the Raiders was FUN.
Fussing about footballs and Brett Farve's weiner texts, not fun.


I hate the Raiders now and I'm a fan :lr

I do miss the old days of Lyle, Lester the Molester Hayes with Haynes on the other side, they would mug anyone the ball was thrown to on the sides, one of the best tandems in NFL history, as well as more stickum used by them than the entire Johnson and Johnson bandaid division :r They were a hell of a team, they could rack up the penalties and still win, teams were legitimately afraid to play them, God I miss those days. Granted now if you look at a player sideways, specially a Brady, you get a penalty. Suh would have fit right in with those Raiders back in the day.

[E.J.]

^^^Funny, exactly, Suh was classic old school NFL. Wish he was a Bronco, I'd have no problem with a game suspension, here and there.

[shilala]

That's how he greeted his very best friends. He did much worse to opposing players.:r

On a serious and inquisitive note, why is it that in the past, Roger Goodell has been the victim of severe criticism that he is too close to the owners.
Now, that it doesn't suit an influential owner, he is biased and should recluse himself from the appeal process.
Things that make you go..........WTF???
They make it up as they go along, Carlos.
Kinda like MLB. Whatever way the wind is blowing, that's how you set up camp.
I think my only gripe is like yours, there are no rules.
Everything is taken on it's own merit, and judged specifically.
It's odd that that bothers me, because I absolutely HATE mandatory sentencing. It makes no sense. Never has.
This "New NFL" is in it's infancy, and it's going through growing pains.
Sooner or later they'll hammer things out. Too much has changed way too fast.

[AdamJoshua]

A Football Life on Lyle talking about the rule against throwing a helmet after having done so himself to an opponent's helmet, I suppose once was enough, nothing like ripping off someone's helmet then using it as a weapon against them. Football sucks now. :lr

[shilala]

Lawyers, Ads. Lawyers.

[AdamJoshua]

The more they make the more their lawyers protect them, that's on both sides, the business / owners and the players / agents. Of course I mean by suing and protecting against suits, I'm sure it could be quite the 360 of bs, not to mention Little Johnny's mom suing because he saw something violent in a game on t.v. then tried it at home like a little dipship.

[bobarian]

Best line of the week goes to the Patriots!

"Mr. Jastremski would sometimes work out and bulk up -- he is a slender guy and his goal was to get to 200 pounds. Mr. McNally is a big fellow and had the opposite goal: to lose weight. "Deflate" was a term they used to refer to losing weight. One can specifically see this use of the term in a Nov. 30, 2014 text from Mr. McNally to Mr. Jastremski: "deflate and give somebody that jacket." (p. 87). This banter, and Mr. McNally's goal of losing weight, meant Mr. McNally was the "deflator." There was nothing complicated or sinister about it."

:lr:lr:lr

[Subvet642]

Best line of the week goes to the Patriots!

"Mr. Jastremski would sometimes work out and bulk up -- he is a slender guy and his goal was to get to 200 pounds. Mr. McNally is a big fellow and had the opposite goal: to lose weight. "Deflate" was a term they used to refer to losing weight. One can specifically see this use of the term in a Nov. 30, 2014 text from Mr. McNally to Mr. Jastremski: "deflate and give somebody that jacket." (p. 87). This banter, and Mr. McNally's goal of losing weight, meant Mr. McNally was the "deflator." There was nothing complicated or sinister about it."

:lr:lr:lr

That sounds pretty weak, even to me.

[Stephen]

As I had written a few places before, I don't really watch much football. I'm not very familiar with that. Was it the same BS procedure? What were your thoughts on that?
Pretty much. Sean Payton (head coach of the Saints) received a one year unpaid suspension because (in the words of Goodell), "ignorance is not an excuse. You're the head coach. You should've known." Their GM was also suspended eight games, the team fined 500k, and lost two consecutive second round picks. That's not to mention the players/coaches who were directly involved.

Just be thankful Goodell isn't taking that stance this time around.

[Stephen]

That's how he greeted his very best friends. He did much worse to opposing players.:r

On a serious and inquisitive note, why is it that in the past, Roger Goodell has been the victim of severe criticism that he is too close to the owners.
Now, that it doesn't suit an influential owner, he is biased and should recluse himself from the appeal process.
Things that make you go..........WTF???
Simple, because Goodell sucks as a Commissioner. He's got a 1st class ticket on board the gravy train, and he's done everything in his power to derail it.

[Stephen]

Favre's wiener texts? Not fun?

Blasphemy.
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/e8/e8b059db299171713f40a941535a5e88456616d2784ce8b0cc 69335de0013f15.jpg

[icehog3]

Nothing gets between Brett and his Wranglers...excepting the occassional camera phone.

[AdamJoshua]

Best line of the week goes to the Patriots!

"Mr. Jastremski would sometimes work out and bulk up -- he is a slender guy and his goal was to get to 200 pounds. Mr. McNally is a big fellow and had the opposite goal: to lose weight. "Deflate" was a term they used to refer to losing weight. One can specifically see this use of the term in a Nov. 30, 2014 text from Mr. McNally to Mr. Jastremski: "deflate and give somebody that jacket." (p. 87). This banter, and Mr. McNally's goal of losing weight, meant Mr. McNally was the "deflator." There was nothing complicated or sinister about it."

:lr:lr:lr

I take back all of my thoughts that anything against the rules was going on. I wonder if he's doing the Paleo diet?

[Subvet642]

Pretty much. Sean Payton (head coach of the Saints) received a one year unpaid suspension because (in the words of Goodell), "ignorance is not an excuse. You're the head coach. You should've known." Their GM was also suspended eight games, the team fined 500k, and lost two consecutive second round picks. That's not to mention the players/coaches who were directly involved.

Just be thankful Goodell isn't taking that stance this time around.

Jesus! A friggin' year? Sounds like BS to me. Ignorance of a rule/law is no excuse but ignorance of the offense puts it beyond volition and therefore beyond guilt.

[Porch Dweller]

Simple, because Goodell sucks as a Commissioner. He's got a 1st class ticket on board the gravy train, and he's done everything in his power to derail it.

This, x1000. When you make Gary Bettman look competent and confident, you know you're a crappy sports commissioner.

[E.J.]

Funny, all the Goodell hate. He's not perfect, but he's been a windfall of $$$$ for the owners. Their net worth has increased like never before under Mr. Goodell.

[Stephen]

Funny, all the Goodell hate. He's not perfect, but he's been a windfall of $$$$ for the owners. Their net worth has increased like never before under Mr. Goodell.
Which stems from TV contracts, which stems from the popularity of the sport, which stems from the rise in popularity in fantasy football, which has zilch to do with Goodell. Gregg Levy would've made a much better Commissioner.

[AdamJoshua]

Which stems from TV contracts, which stems from the popularity of the sport, which stems from the rise in popularity in fantasy football, which has zilch to do with Goodell. Gregg Levy would've made a much better Commissioner.

That's actually not true at all, he's a businessman and marketer, football doesn't just shoot fireballs of money out of it's ass.

[Blueface]

That's actually not true at all, he's a businessman and marketer, football doesn't just shoot fireballs of money out of it's ass.

Like this?

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/flaming_ass.jpg

[AdamJoshua]

I wonder if those are Wranger jeans.

[shilala]

I still think it's a conspiracy.

[Stephen]

That's actually not true at all, he's a businessman and marketer, football doesn't just shoot fireballs of money out of it's ass.
When you have television networks actively competing to televise your product, it sure as sh!t does. Why do you think DirecTV just paid $12 billion to continue to have exclusive broadcast rights to out of market games? Because otherwise nobody would use their sh!tty product. The league rolls on in spite of, not because of him.

What ingenious marketing does he do? When fantasy football became easily accessible (ie, able to be done online) and not seen in the mainstream as, "nerdy", it connected with fans on a different level that doesn't happen with the NBA/MLB/NHL. It's not a time sink, but one is still invested. Much like NCAA office pools. That happened under Tagliabue's watch, not Goodell's.

[Stephen]

I wonder if those are Wranger jeans.
Carhartt's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQZWcWBoyOw

[AdamJoshua]

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/10347537_1255306941165423_1543293301651856992_n.jp g?oh=d3481425d817bfb2280d0f1090a1e051&oe=56092F2E

[icehog3]

Why do you think DirecTV just paid $12 billion to continue to have exclusive broadcast rights to out of market games? Because otherwise nobody would use their sh!tty product.
:confused:
I use DirecTv, and I couldnt give a sh!t about out of market football games.

[Stephen]

:confused:
I use DirecTv, and I couldnt give a sh!t about out of market football games.
Being a Bears fan, I'd imagine you don't give a sh!t about in market football games, either. :D

[icehog3]

Being a Bears fan, I'd imagine you don't give a sh!t about in market football games, either. :D

I'm always glad the Blackhawks are starting a month or so after the Bears so I can see some wins. :r

[Blueface]

Interesting.
Team will not appeal judgment.
Will accept punishment as has been handed down.

Let the legal scholar debate begin but this is what I would call a "quiet" admission. If so outraged, why not appeal it? Food for thought.

[AdamJoshua]

Let me channel Thomas here and say, remember when Arod was going to sue everyone under the Sun?

[The Poet]

And didn't Barry Bonds just file a collusion suit? :D

[Blueface]

Way too funny!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/540a9b73fa400a04e0b2d4503c17abd4.jpg

[Stephen]

And didn't Barry Bonds just file a collusion suit? :D
Sure did. That one will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Subvet642]

Way too funny!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/540a9b73fa400a04e0b2d4503c17abd4.jpg

I like the old model with the little video camera. :D

See? Even I can laugh about it.

[AdamJoshua]

Well they accepted the penalties so :sh

[mosesbotbol]

Well they accepted the penalties so :sh

Kraft needs Goodell to stay as commissioner for Kraft to have the power he has in the league. If Kraft pressured other owners or somehow pushed Goodell out; he may not have a champion/puppet on his side with the next commissioner. The money and draft picks is just the price you pay to be in the position he is. Kraft was stupid to comment like he did before the report came out.

[Dave128]

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=693&pictureid=8856

[mhailey]

http://liberallogic101.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/deflate.gif

[Subvet642]

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=693&pictureid=8856

She's not dead, that's afterglow. :D

[Weelok]

As far as I see it, if your not cheating, your not trying hard enough. Looks like the Patriots are the only team that deserves the Super Bowl championship.

[Subvet642]

As far as I see it, if your not cheating, your not trying hard enough. Looks like the Patriots are the only team that deserves the Super Bowl championship.

They don't have a monopoly on that. On another note: they really need to get control of the constant rule changes; I can't keep up.

In baseball, has anyone ever heard a base runner say to the ump "I was out' or "I missed second"? Ty Cobb constantly spiked the crap out of the shins of his opponents (he was a colossal douche-bag), and pitchers have always tried to doctor the balls. If you can get around the ump, you can get away with it. Baseball players are always trying to "deke" the play; you know, drop an infield pop-up to get the easy out at second. Football, on the other hand, has gotten prissy.

[shilala]

Darren, I knows you're out of your element with this football deal.
Here's the thing. Bill Belichick is the best football mind EVAR. He has been since he put together the totally insane coaching squad that skipped out of Cleveland long ago.
I mean, seriously, mano eh mano, Belichick is that guy. Maybe someone could make a Coughlin argument.
But nobody has been so learned and married to the game as Belichick has been since the 90's.
If he sees a way to undress you, your skirt is coming off.
THAT is a coach's job.

[Subvet642]

Darren, I knows you're out of your element with this football deal.
Here's the thing. Bill Belichick is the best football mind EVAR. He has been since he put together the totally insane coaching squad that skipped out of Cleveland long ago.
I mean, seriously, mano eh mano, Belichick is that guy. Maybe someone could make a Coughlin argument.
But nobody has been so learned and married to the game as Belichick has been since the 90's.
If he sees a way to undress you, your skirt is coming off.
THAT is a coach's job.

We love him up here. He learned football at his father's knee at Annapolis. His father is the only civilian to be granted the honor of being buried there. I was just making a general statement about football and how it seems to have become needlessly complicated and how baseball looks rather "laissez faire" in comparison.

[Porch Dweller]

They don't have a monopoly on that. On another note: they really need to get control of the constant rule changes; I can't keep up.

In baseball, has anyone ever heard a base runner say to the ump "I was out' or "I missed second"? Ty Cobb constantly spiked the crap out of the shins of his opponents (he was a colossal douche-bag), and pitchers have always tried to doctor the balls. If you can get around the ump, you can get away with it. Baseball players are always trying to "deke" the play; you know, drop an infield pop-up to get the easy out at second. Football, on the other hand, has gotten prissy.

Obviously the only solution is that if a pitcher is seen scuffing the baseball, he needs to be banned for life and the team he was playing against needs to sue him.

;)

[icehog3]

. Baseball players are always trying to "deke" the play; you know, drop an infield pop-up to get the easy out at second.

That's why they instituted the "Infield Fly Rule" 114 years ago. ;)

[AdamJoshua]

That's why they instituted the "Infield Fly Rule" 114 years ago. ;)

:lr :lr :lr


Now if he had said players in general and mentioned Arod yelling "I've got it" as he rounds second on a popup to to short...that would have had nothing to do with the topic, just can't forget what a hack he is. :lr

[The Poet]

It is ludicrous to equate deeks and fakes, which play a part in most sports, with doctoring a ball or other such tactics like corked bats. The first is a legal strategy, the second a violation of rules.

For instance, a catcher will be lauded for his ability to "frame" or "pull" a pitch back into the zone in an attempt to fool the ump into believing a ball is a strike. "Good" catchers will try this dozens of times a game, and will get away with it on some of those. Is this cheating? Ehhh, OK, strictly speaking it is. Is it illegal? Not in the least.

[Subvet642]

That's why they instituted the "Infield Fly Rule" 114 years ago. ;)

Yes, I know, but players still try.

[Subvet642]

It is ludicrous to equate deeks and fakes, which play a part in most sports, with doctoring a ball or other such tactics like corked bats. The first is a legal strategy, the second a violation of rules.

For instance, a catcher will be lauded for his ability to "frame" or "pull" a pitch back into the zone in an attempt to fool the ump into believing a ball is a strike. "Good" catchers will try this dozens of times a game, and will get away with it on some of those. Is this cheating? Ehhh, OK, strictly speaking it is. Is it illegal? Not in the least.

Before 1920 it was the duty of every pitcher to doctor the ball as soon as he got it. They would scuff it, cut it with a bottle cap, spit tobacco juice on it, use vasoline, etc., they used one ball for the whole game, unless it was lost over the fence, which was rare. In the 1860's players were expected to be gentlemen and honest about their play. In those days, players would say if they were out or not. Getting back to my point: the constant rule changes of football are difficult to keep up with for the casual fan and makes the game needlessly complicated.

[The Poet]

Thanks for the history lesson. When did they change the rule about the pressure of a football?

[Subvet642]

Thanks for the history lesson. When did they change the rule about the pressure of a football?

I don't know, I tried looking it up, but I'm glad that the League will be handling the balls from now on, so I hear.

[shilala]

The League always took care of the balls for both sides up until not many years ago.
I can't tell you how many years, but I bet Stephen can.
Why would the league give that responsibility back to the teams?
Simple. So the teams can cater balls to the QB's liking. It's a touchdown league, and that's what people want to see.
I'm fine with that.

Fact is, every team benefited from the change. Then someone got pissed and pointed a finger. The rule is written, and it needs to be enforced as such.
Watch how fast the rule changes now.

[Weelok]

This discussion on sports is excellent!!!!

Without debate, I think?, sports are a collection of rules and since sports have been invented, flexing the rules a bit and not getting caught gives you an advantage. When your caught, sucks to be you, but it's hard to honestly say that's the ONLY thing your bending the rules on which in this case is why I think the penalty was ridiculous because this is the second time getting caught bending the rules and they need to get smarter in hiding problems.

It's hard for me to imagine that the Colts for example aren't bending the rules somewhere and let's just start at the drug policies. Drugs in sports are a reality because humans seek an advantage especially when a great deal of money or fame is on the hook. There have been many articles written about how teams cheat the drug rules to the point of catheters being used to put IN fresh untainted urine and the team doctors assisting in this process as well as the same doctors helping collect samples to be tested. hmmm......

Anyway, I think sports represent the gladiators of today and as gladiators, I respect their desires to push to insane limits but I also respect the desire to create an even playing field. So if you get caught, suck it up, pay the fine, and cheat smarter.

My two cents.

[icehog3]

Yes, I know, but players still try.

Really? I watch a lot of baseball, and can;t remember the last time I saw anything resembling that. Go figure.

I don't know, I tried looking it up, but I'm glad that the League will be handling the balls from now on, so I hear.

Some might opine that the NFL has been handling the balls for quite a while now. :r

[The Poet]

Too bad the league can't handle the nuts also.

[icehog3]

Too bad the league can't handle the nuts also.

;)

[Subvet642]

Really? I watch a lot of baseball, and can;t remember the last time I saw anything resembling that. Go figure.



Some might opine that the NFL has been handling the balls for quite a while now. :r

Really? I think I last saw it about two years ago. Shortstop dropped an easy pop-up and shuffled the ball to second; it was called, but he tried. I forget who it was. Umps often forget to call it in the air. The trick is to make the catch look harder than it is.

[Subvet642]

They still try. :r

MIAMI (AP) — The Baltimore Orioles' bullpen was already stretched thin in the 12th inning when left-hander Brian Matusz was ejected for using a sticky substance that was on his right arm.

His replacement, T.J. McFarland, then gave up the game-winning single to Martin Prado in the 13th, and the Orioles lost to the Miami Marlins 1-0 Saturday.

Orioles manager Buck Showalter shrugged off the impact of the ejection, saying Matusz would have faced only one more hitter anyway.

''He wouldn't have pitched the next inning,'' Showalter said.

Matusz might not pitch again for a while. The Brewers' Will Smith was suspended for eight games Friday by Major League Baseball for having a foreign substance on his arm in a loss to the Braves.

Matusz entered the game in the 12th with the score 0-0 and retired the first two batters before new Marlins manager Dan Jennings approached home plate umpire Jordan Baker. Baker and crew chief Paul Emmel then went to the mound to inspect Matusz's arm.

''I went out there and told the pitcher I was going to touch his right forearm,'' Emmel said. ''That's where he was touching before he went to the ball. I detected a foreign substance, so the pitcher was ejected.''

[AdamJoshua]

The League always took care of the balls for both sides up until not many years ago.
I can't tell you how many years, but I bet Stephen can.
Why would the league give that responsibility back to the teams?
Simple. So the teams can cater balls to the QB's liking. It's a touchdown league, and that's what people want to see.
I'm fine with that.

Fact is, every team benefited from the change. Then someone got pissed and pointed a finger. The rule is written, and it needs to be enforced as such.
Watch how fast the rule changes now.

2007, the same year the Patriots started their amazing run and amazing lack of fumbles for that matter.

[Subvet642]

2007, the same year the Patriots started their amazing run and amazing lack of fumbles for that matter.

Gee, I thought they started their amazing run in 2001. :D

Actually, I think that was after "Spygate" when they went on their "F*** the NFL tour"; I expect another one this season. You know how powerful bulletin board material is and they have plenty this year.

[The Poet]

Darren, again I am confused. That Orioles pitcher was ejected and will likely face suspension for doctoring the ball. OK, it happens several times a season. He doctored the ball, and should face the music. But how does citing this defend your contention that Tom Brady and the Pats should NOT face any consequences for THEIR actions?

[Subvet642]

Darren, again I am confused. That Orioles pitcher was ejected and will likely face suspension for doctoring the ball. OK, it happens several times a season. He doctored the ball, and should face the music. But how does citing this defend your contention that Tom Brady and the Pats should NOT face any consequences for THEIR actions?

I see your confusion; I wasn't contending anything, just an amusing anecdote.

Since you brought it up, this sort of thing seems to happen more often in baseball, but it almost never becomes a federal case. Did the Orioles get fined? His pitching coach and manager MUST have known. What about his catcher? He HAD to know. The clubhouse boys? Did they get suspended? No. I just think that football, or at least the front office, has gotten prissy.

On another note, I've decided to let it go and wait for the payback that Belichick will inflict upon the league, on the field. Brady's four game suspension will just be "tacklin' fuel". The players are furious and will take it out on everyone. Ya know...an evil genius like Belichick might just have set this up as a false flag op. Enormous motivation to beat everyone like a red-headed step-child. Gonna be a great season! :banger

[The Poet]

I always feel it is wiser to do your talking on the field, and let the rest of the crap go. :tu

[Subvet642]

I always feel it is wiser to do your talking on the field, and let the rest of the crap go. :tu

:tu

[icehog3]

I like to take a crap on the field, and then talk incessantly about it.

[Subvet642]

I like to take a crap on the field, and then talk incessantly about it.

Don't you mean ice? :D

I think that field of study is called Scatology. Hey, I guard an empty dorm at night; I need something to do.

[icehog3]

Way too much equipment to take off to take a dump on the rink, Darren. ;) :r

[Subvet642]

Way too much equipment to take off to take a dump on the rink, Darren. ;) :r

I can't even stand on skates, nevermind squat, and I grew-up in a hockey town. :fp

[Blueface]

Classic Brady. Classic Patriots.
Tom, we want you to turn over your phone with the messages
Tom to his assistant right after that, destroy the phone.

What a jack @ss. Deserves way more than four games.

I will bet no appeal, no suit.
If he is stupid enough to sue, they will have legal subpoena for those records.

[AdamJoshua]

Classic Brady. Classic Patriots.
Tom, we want you to turn over your phone with the messages
Tom to his assistant right after that, destroy the phone.

What a jack @ss. Deserves way more than four games.

I will bet no appeal, no suit.
If he is stupid enough to sue, they will have legal subpoena for those records.

It worked for A-roid … oh wait nm.

[mk05]

I can feel Giselle's Spidey senses going off.

Tiger found his second wind.

[Subvet642]

Of course, Belichick will use this as the ultimate bulletin board material. I'm predicting another Super Bowl win. Thanks for the "Tacklin' Fuel" NFL! :banger

[The Poet]

Of course, Belichick will use this as the ultimate bulletin board material. I'm predicting another Super Bowl win. Thanks for the "Tacklin' Fuel" NFL! :banger

You think he secretly videotaped the hearings? :D

[shilala]

Tom can get in a little extra golf. No harm.

[shilala]

I also want to have Tom Brady's babies.

[AdamJoshua]

According to early reports, not saying these are accurate, but the NFL was ready to agree to a one game suspense with items being turned over, Brady demanded everything be sealed and no details given to the press. NFL said go eff yourself, 4 games, case closed.

[AdamJoshua]

Of course, Belichick will use this as the ultimate bulletin board material. I'm predicting another Super Bowl win. Thanks for the "Tacklin' Fuel" NFL! :banger

Well the only problem here is that Brady *and the rest of the league* will be using balls that are inflated correctly, making fumbles and dropped catches for the patriots closer to the league average and not have overly incredible numbers in those areas which make a huge difference. Other than that .. .yes it's wonderful cork board material. :lr

[Subvet642]

Well the only problem here is that Brady *and the rest of the league* will be using balls that are inflated correctly, making fumbles and dropped catches for the patriots closer to the league average and not have overly incredible numbers in those areas which make a huge difference. Other than that .. .yes it's wonderful cork board material. :lr


Do you really think that his success is simply because of somewhat under-inflated game balls?
We'll know by the end of the season. I wonder what people will blame if I'm right? The only thing left to blame would be some arcane pact with the devil.:hy
I'm sure some disgruntled losing team will find a rule against that; I'm thinking "too many entities on the field". :lr

[mosesbotbol]

Well the only problem here is that Brady *and the rest of the league* will be using balls that are inflated correctly, making fumbles and dropped catches for the patriots closer to the league average and not have overly incredible numbers in those areas which make a huge difference. Other than that .. .yes it's wonderful cork board material. :lr

Who's to say what the other teams are doing or have done to their footballs since accounting of the footballs has been so poor in the past. Do you really think it's only Tom Brady who wanted his footballs out of spec?

This is a big nothing case and suspending Tom Brady 4 games is going to ensure Pats team even more hungry to win another Super Bowl.

If you have $50 to spare, bet now on the Pats winning the the Super Bowl next season....

[BigAsh]

You think he secretly videotaped the hearings? :D

now THAT'S funny!!...:r

[Blueface]

Who's to say what the other teams are doing or have done to their footballs since accounting of the footballs has been so poor in the past. Do you really think it's only Tom Brady who wanted his footballs out of spec?

This is a big nothing case and suspending Tom Brady 4 games is going to ensure Pats team even more hungry to win another Super Bowl.

If you have $50 to spare, bet now on the Pats winning the the Super Bowl next season....

No way I dare take you up on that bet.
If there is one thing I will bet on for sure is that they WILL come up with yet another creative way to be in the news for cheating.

[Blueface]

Brady's new phone text messages released.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/ac2af40c133b5e03a60279c11758c47f.jpg

[massphatness]

Brady's getting KILLED where it's going to hurt the most: his reputation & legacy.

I can't imagine a scenario where sports fans (at least those in the 44 states outside New England) don't think of him in the same way as they do Barry Bonds & A-Rod. When he trashed his phone, he trashed his reputation. No longer matters what the courts say, in the court of public opinion, he's done.

[Dave128]

Brady's getting KILLED where it's going to hurt the most: his reputation & legacy.

I can't imagine a scenario where sports fans (at least those in the 44 states outside New England) don't think of him in the same way as they do Barry Bonds & A-Rod. When he trashed his phone, he trashed his reputation. No longer matters what the courts say, in the court of public opinion, he's done.

:tu

[dave]

"But my lawyers said...and I'm a union guy, so you can't.....and....blah blah blah..."

Reading his 'statement', my eyes rolled so far into the back of my head that I'm still staring at the ceiling and laughing...

[Blueface]

Brady's getting KILLED where it's going to hurt the most: his reputation & legacy.

I can't imagine a scenario where sports fans (at least those in the 44 states outside New England) don't think of him in the same way as they do Barry Bonds & A-Rod. When he trashed his phone, he trashed his reputation. No longer matters what the courts say, in the court of public opinion, he's done.

So true.
If he didn't want to set a precedent by turning over his personal phone, lock it up in a safe and wait for the court order, if one ever did come.

[dijit]

I was waiting for the fans to get all over his jock in support once the suspension was upheld. I do agree though since there is a considerable amount of money at stake teams will do whatever they think they can get away with to win. It just turns out Brady and the Patriots are under this illusion they wont be caught or wont be punished when they are. I also still believe the NFL plays favorites depending on who is in trouble or how much trouble. Drunk driving and heroin possession is only 2 games? Steroids first offense 1 to 10 games, second offense 4 games to life reduced to one season. There are numerous other references that could be made as well. Simply put he got caught he tried to hide it and got caught hiding it. He should have just manned up from the beginning admit it and defied the NFL to treat him unfairly according to their already warped sense of right and justifiable punishment.

[mosesbotbol]

For all those who say Brady's reputation is done; would you trade your QB for him right now? If not, why?

[dijit]

I wouldnt but that is because while I believe he is a great QB he is at the twilight of his career while our QB is at the beginning. However he would be a kick ass back up! I still dont like him though.

[massphatness]

For all those who say Brady's reputation is done; would you trade your QB for him right now? If not, why?

I said his reputation in the public arena is done -- doesn't mean he's not a fantastic QB. I'm a Bills fan. I'll take Brady over the flotsam & jetsam my team's assembled at that position. Hell, I'll take Garoppolo.

This isn't about Brady's abilities on the field. It's about his legacy. Four Super Bowl titles; MVP in 3 of them -- all tarnished because of this. Outside of New England, he's basically A-Rod in shoulder pads.

[Blueface]

For all those who say Brady's reputation is done; would you trade your QB for him right now? If not, why?

Nope.
Wouldn't do it before either.
Mine has beaten him twice in Super Bowls.:=:

[shilala]

Tom Brady can use my balls.

[icehog3]

For all those who say Brady's reputation is done; would you trade your QB for him right now? If not, why?

I will trade Jay Cutler for him, and even throw in George Halas' frozen head, Moses. :D

[Porch Dweller]

Well the only problem here is that Brady *and the rest of the league* will be using balls that are inflated correctly, making fumbles and dropped catches for the patriots closer to the league average and not have overly incredible numbers in those areas which make a huge difference. Other than that .. .yes it's wonderful cork board material. :lr

Including Aaron Rodgers, who unequivocally stated he sneaked over-inflated balls into games...yet not a single NFL fan or league official seems to care.