I need beads! There a difference?

[spincycle]

I need another bag of beads and maybe those fancy cigar looking tubes to put them in. My one and only bead purchase was with cheaphumidors.com, and they work just fine.

So my question: Is there any difference between the different bead makers? If not, who do you folks recommend? I'm in Canada, so shipping here is a must!

Thanks! :ss





spin

[piperman]

I use Heartfelt,

[lightning9191]

I've only used Heartfelt as well. Totally satisfied with them and the customer service is top notch.

[bobarian]

Heartfeltindustries.com. Buy in bulk or the new round humidifiers are very nice. The only problem with the tubes I have found is that they take up valuable cigar real estate. :2

[ucla695]

I’ve purchased beads from Heartfelt before and they have worked well. :tu Cigarmony also sells them.

[shvictor]

I use Shilala beads and they are awesome.

[elderboy02]

Heartfelt

[MithShrike]

Bug shilala.

[gettysburgfreak]

another vote for heartfelt

[stearns]

shilala's are great, cant comment on any others

stearns

[skibumdc]

cigarmony beads.

[Prozac_Puros]

Look up Shilala, great beads!

[md4958]

I have both Heartfelt and Shilala beads.

Heartfelt work great, but Shilalas beads hold a rock solid 65%, to the point where I think my hygrometer might be stuck.

without intent to offend anybody (both are members of this board) I would direct you to Shilala beads... espically if you are a newbie. Set and forget.

[Don Fernando]

I would buy them at Heartfelt, but that's because I don't trust Scott, you never know what you get besides the beads :r

[14holestogie]

My first vote would go with Shilala.
The next best option would be Shilala.
He treats you right.

[csbrewfisher]

I've purchased beads from Scott Shilala and from Heartfelt, and both have worked beautifully. Both shipped promptly, both have good pricing. It's a coin toss.

[G G]

Shilala and then Heartfelt.

[PSUBALL10]

Heartfelt gets my vote

[kayaker]

I have Heartfelt, but would like to check out Shilala beads too.

However, from what I've read from his posts, he is still post op from back surgery and may be behind on his bead supply. Just send him a PM to find out.

[Vitis]

I have only used Heartfelt but am amazed at how well they work. Rock solid at 65% since the day I put em in.

~Vitis

[mrreindeer]

I would buy them at Heartfelt, but that's because I don't trust Scott, you never know what you get besides the beads :r

I bought from Scott Shilala & barely escaped with my life! Awesome BOTL & awesome product.

[nozero]

I have a Puckifier, some Humi-Care crystal gel, some Ice brand crystals that are similar to the Humi-Care ones, and some of Scott Shilala's HCM beads. Scott's stuff requires less intervention once you get them adjusted to your desired RH.

:2

[K Baz]

I use cigarmony.

I don't know if there is a great difference in product between the vendors (I have only use heartfelt and cigarmony) and service from all three seems to be stellar.

I make my choice based on what else I need to purchase with the beads - cuts down on shipping cost per item.

Either way you will be not disappointed.

[Volt]

I've used beads from a few vendors. My best sucess is from Scott (Shilala). They are rock solid, need littler intervention, and support a great Botl.

[Cigargal]

Seems to me you cannot go wrong with either one. I don't know if beads get tired, but I am about to replace my tubes with a puck(cigarmony) I just use a bag-o-beads in my coolerdors.

[scooter]

I use Heartfelt. Great customer service and they have worked out great.

[BengalMan]

I have order from Heartfelt various times. Extremely fast shipping and great product.

[Tenor CS]

One more vote for Heartfelt. I love 'em.

But, also props to Shilala, he was very professional in my PM's with him.

[OHMatt]

I have purchased both BargainHumidors' and Heartfelt's beads. Based entirely on physical appearance and with no credible testing I prefer the beads from Bargainhumidors.

A larger percentage of the BH beads turn translucent after my indirect recharge method; whereas the Heartfelt beads seem to have a higher percentage remain opaque. To me this observed change indicates the BH beads absorb more/better. Some of the heartfelt beads do turn transparent like the BH beads, just a much lower percentage; perhaps the Heartfelt beads do better with direct addition of water.

(Then of course there is also the factor that BH beads are $17 a pound and Heartfelt are $31 a pound)

I haven't used Shilala's beads; if they are competitively priced to BH I might give them a try in the future..

[MNSmoker]

I use Heartfelt beads in the desktop and Shilala beads in the Vino. They both work well, and customer service was great with both of them. You really can't go wrong either way.

[floydpink]

I will use Heartfelt until I have a reason to go elsewhere, which would mean they stopped their lightning shipping and great customer service.

I have never had any problems with their service or product, which means they have a customer for life.

[GWags]

I use Scott's beads and am very happy! All three are class acts in my book - they just get it, customer service and great products!

[N2Advnture]

A larger percentage of the BH beads turn translucent after my indirect recharge method; whereas the Heartfelt beads seem to have a higher percentage remain opaque. To me this observed change indicates the BH beads absorb more/better. Some of the heartfelt beads do turn transparent like the BH beads, just a much lower percentage; perhaps the Heartfelt beads do better with direct addition of water. ..

All beads are definitely not created equally. Some (RH Beads & Heartfelt's beads) perform better (more efficiently) in the RH range that we store our cigars (60-70% range) where as others perform better outside of that range (see "hysteresis curve").

It should be noted that the RH Beads & Heartfelt beads cost nearly 2x as much as other beads as well. ("You get what you pay for" applies here)

I hope this helps

~Mark

.

[shilala]

Thanks to everyone for the kind words of support. :tu
I love you guys!!! :)

[BlackDog]

I can't speak for anyone else's beads, but Shilala's beads keep my cooler and humi at a rock solid 65%.

[CigarDood]

I have only used Heartfelt but am amazed at how well they work. Rock solid at 65% since the day I put em in.

~Vitis

same here.

[OHMatt]

All beads are definitely not created equally. Some (RH Beads & Heartfelt's beads) perform better (more efficiently) in the RH range that we store our cigars (60-70% range) where as others perform better outside of that range (see "hysteresis curve").

It should be noted that the RH Beads & Heartfelt beads cost nearly 2x as much as other beads as well. ("You get what you pay for" applies here)

I hope this helps

~Mark

.

If people want to pay $31 instead of $17 to help out a BOTL, fine.. Viper and Shilala do go out of their way to help the community so it is the community's prerogative to return the favor. These two guys are class acts.

Throwing around technical mumbo jumbo such as "hysteresis curve" will fool only some of the people in the asylum.. There have been great discussions on beads over the years. On cigarfamily there was a thread in which "CigarNV" stated the following (3 odd years ago):
In a humidor the cigars and the wood act as a stable device as they contain a defined amount of moisture. They act as the buffering agents with the beads only serving as the control device. Art and cigars are two very different applications and as such kitty litter provides more than enough buffering control for cigar applications. This is the reason why a full humidor or coolador always is more stable than a half empty one.

Bottom line is that conditioned silica gel will perform the same function as the commercial product at far less cost for all cigar applications.

While I am not recommending using the ($15/7 pounds at PetSmart) ExquisiCat Pearls, rather an inexpensive commercial cigar product; what CigarNV stated convinces me that hysteresis curves are moot.. Spend the extra twenty bucks to put cigars in your humi; bead performance doesn't really matter. *If* a commercial bead supplier ever provides empirical data demonstrating their superior performance compared to the less costly commercial bead suppliers, a full humi is still more important for keeping the environment stable.

I have never read disparaging remarks from Scott or Viper about the competition. They compete with the other guys by participating in the forums and by providing excellent service. On the other hand we have, "Perform better outside 60% - 70%" and "You get what you pay for"?:bs I would ask for evidence to support the implication that BH's (http://www.bargainhumidors.com/bh/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=ACC-CONSERVAGEL) and/or CH's (http://www.cheaphumidors.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?screen=PROD&Store_code=ch&Product_code=BEADS&category_code=humidifiers) beads don't perform as well in lieu of a drive by implication. It is worth noting that the $16 CH beads come with a lifetime guarantee. What kind of guarantee do "RH Beads" carry?

Perhaps I am incompetent/careless enough with my cigar storage that I can't discern that my BH beads aren't performing as well as my Heartfelt beads. I have a pound of each in 2 identical coolers. I would appreciate someone letting me know what should I be looking for to indicate the inferior nature of BH beads..

Dave, are you still using BH beads to regulate/buffer your truly priceless cigar collection? Perhaps you should switch to RH beads...

[N2Advnture]

...Throwing around technical mumbo jumbo such as "hysteresis curve" will fool only some of the people in the asylum.. There have been great discussions on beads over the years. On cigarfamily there was a thread in which "CigarNV" stated the following (3 odd years ago)...I have never read disparaging remarks from Scott or Viper about the competition. They compete with the other guys by participating in the forums and by providing excellent service. On the other hand we have, "Perform better outside 60% - 70%" and "You get what you pay for"?:bs I would ask for evidence to support the implication that...

I apologize if my post came across as "disparaging" the competition, that was not the intent at all.

Not only have I have been on the boards for years and participate as much, if not more, than any other retailer, I have been a BH customer for quite some time. I have spoken to Motek of BH at the RTDAs and he himself references the hysteresis curve.

All I meant was that there is a difference in the quality of the beads which is why there is a cost difference.

[Vitis]

OK, so now you folks have gotten me confused. :hm I tried to understand the hysteresis curve as mentioned above, and assuming your talking about "matric potential hysteresis". My understanding is it shows errors or varience in the potential water content, IE: saturation could be between x% and y% making it hard to measure volumetric water content.

So how does the inability to accurately measure the water content in the beads relate to their abilty to maintain a specific RH?

I wish you hadn't brought this up, I now have more questions than I need about beads. I was happy just knowing they worked. :D

~Vitis

[shilala]

So how does the inability to accurately measure the water content in the beads relate to their abilty to maintain a specific RH?


Hi Vitis,
The simple answer is "it doesn't matter". I don't have to measure the water content in the beads at a specific RH%age. It's only indirectly relevant.
HCM beads work on the principle of equilibrium.
Equilibrium is simply a balance. It's the balance of water vapor in the air and water in the beads.
The beads bind a very large amount of water per volume. When the water vapor in the air drops, the beads give up a little bit of their water so that they can be balanced with the water content in the air.
When the vapor in the air rises, they gather vapor so that they can be balanced.
The reason the volume of water in the beads can't be accurately measured at any point is because it is ever-changing.
That's somewhat misleading because it's a fiercly dumbed down statement. The key word is "accurately". I can make a very good guess with simple math.
Equilibrium is far more complicated than I stated, as well.
I've done a lot of writing on the principle as related to my HCM beads. It's long, drawn out and boring.

When Mark made the comment that beads weren't equal, he was absolutely correct. I don't think he meant to be disparaging at all. It's fact. The "money's worth" comment is one of those subjective things.
If something does the job for you at half the price, that's awesome.
Thing is, what works for you and provides value may not work for me because of my environment, my humidor, or how often I visit said humidor.

I've done tests of dozens of types of humidification media.
The goal was to find where the "value" was.
Someone mentioned Kitty Litter.
In order to get the same humidity buffering benefit from Kitty Litter as from HCM beads, a person would need to use 9 to 14 pounds of kitty litter as compared to one pound of HCM beads.
At $40 for a pound of HCM beads and $28 for 14 pounds of Kitty Litter, it appears at first to be a "value".
Problem is, in order for the Kitty litter to work as well as one pound of HCM beads, it needs to be arranged so as to provide 910 square inches of surface area as opposed to 65 square inches of surface area for HCM beads. (I'm not willing to spare that kind of room in my winadors or humis.)
Even at that rate, the Kitty Litter is far slower reactively than are HCM beads. They can handle the buffering and provide the volume needed, but they take much longer to recover the conditioned space's RH%age.

All the different humidity control products have been designed from the designer's particular perspective. I have my own needs addressed by the HCM beads. Those are the things that I feel are important.
HCM beads tend to my needs the way I want them to be delivered.
I'm full aware that my perspective may be different than Mark's or Dave's as to what they want from their beads and how to achieve it.
That difference is exactly why I researched and developed HCM beads.
I wanted what I wanted the way I wanted it. :)

None of the the three of us have ever been pitted against one another, and there's no need for that to ever happen.
I have the greatest respect for Mark and Dave both as businessmen and BOTL's. They more than deserve it. They're incredible people with exceptional personalities.
They also offer excellent products and provide top notch service.
If I weren't using my own beads, I'd definately be using theirs. :tu

[Vitis]

Shilala, thanks for the in-depth explanation. I think I understand this now.

Thing is, what works for you and provides value may not work for me because of my environment, my humidor, or how often I visit said humidor.

This to me is the most important thing. We all need humidity retained, but a lot of it has to do with how quickly it regains the level when the humi is opened for some ammount of time. I do assume that kitty litter can have a much greater fluctuation and still work appropriatly for its appliation.

Thanks

~Vitis

[shilala]

This to me is the most important thing. We all need humidity retained, but a lot of it has to do with how quickly it regains the level when the humi is opened for some ammount of time. I do assume that kitty litter can have a much greater fluctuation and still work appropriatly for its appliation.
~Vitis

Actually, Kitty Litter fails miserably in the situation you mentioned.
It's best suited for long storage where the humi is very seldom opened.
Even at that, it still takes up a huge amount of space in order to be useful.
If space isn't an issue, the ambient is relatively stable, and the humi isn't opened often, Kitty Litter can be made useful.
Value-wise, it still sucks though.
A guy can use a couple pans of wetted sodium nitrate in his humi and hold a perfect 65% for FAR less money and use up FAR less floor space.
Once again, it's all about what makes me happy.
I'd pay 15 bucks for kitty litter if sodium nitrate was the only thing available because I wouldn't have to worry about spills or salt-crawl. There are many options out there that are far more appealing to me than either of those things, so I choose to go that way.
I think my "bottom line" is that I want the very best and most reliable solution that takes a minimal amount of maintenance. I have a LOT of money tied up in my cigars. More importantly, I want them to smoke good. :tu I don't want to have to fuss with my humidor all the time to keep the environment stable.
If a product delivers on those levels, I'm going to be happy. If it doesn't work, I'm not going to be happy.
If another product provides an improvement over the one I'm using, I'm going to switch if and when I can, so long as I can afford it.

[Vitis]

You misunderstood me. I meant kitty litter would work well in it's application .. as kitty litter, but would not be respondent enough to regain humidity fast enough for cigars. So we're thinking alike :)

Thanks for explaining all this though.

~Vitis

[Texan in Mexico]

I am extremely anal about my things - have ordered from both HF and cigarmony.com, both gave great service though I have ordered more items from cigarmony.com

Is there a diff in product - I haven't seen one yet...

[shilala]

You misunderstood me. I meant kitty litter would work well in it's application .. as kitty litter, but would not be respondent enough to regain humidity fast enough for cigars. So we're thinking alike :)

Thanks for explaining all this though.

~Vitis
Hehehehe.
I wasn't sure what you meant. I coulda went either way and I picked the wrong one. :)
Just so you know, it doesn't work in it's Kitty Litter application either, that's why it's been discontinued. It sizzles when cats pee on it and it scares them, so the cats pee somewhere else.
It's a 100% failure on all fronts. :D

[Darrell]

I am a dedicated customer of Heartfelt, no reason for me to try anyone else beads. :2

David Asp's customer service is BAR NONE. :tu

[cbsmokin]

Kitty litter and cigars are a bad idea. Kitty finds litter and Kitty makes wet cigars that taste like ammonia. :ss

[Bruzee]

I have never tried the others, but Shilala's have been nothing short of perfect. I am more than satisfied.

[Doogie]

I've only used Heartfelt as well. Totally satisfied with them and the customer service is top notch.

same hear:ss

[zmancbr]

I am a dedicated customer of Heartfelt, no reason for me to try anyone else beads. :2

David Asp's customer service is BAR NONE. :tu

Ditto... I hear good things about other vendors and people, but David takes such good care of me I just keep going back. :ss