I come seeking advice

[DrDubzz]

Alright asylum, I have a potential dilemma, and I'd like some impartial input on the matter.
Preface: I graduate from pharmacy school 4 months from today, and I'm not sure what to do for employment, but I have options.

As I posted in the troops room, I am trying to join the Air Force (was Navy, but that changed for financial reasons :() to be a pharmacist. It has always been a dream of mine to serve, which makes this a great opportunity both for the pride of service and the professional experience (Air Force pharmacy is an excellent practice setting). As it stands now, I have submitted all paper work, done my physical and am waiting on an Interview and medical approval from the surgeon general. Hopefully everything will be wrapped up (including being selected or not) by the end of Feb. - I would enter as O-3.

OR

The other option is this - back in July I did a rural rotation at an independently owned pharmacy in a small town (15K) about an hour from Amarillo. The owner and I really hit it off (he's younger, 42 I believe) and he basically said I was the best student he had had through there, etc etc.
But he had a second pharmacist at the time (my preceptor actually). About two weeks after my rotation was done she turned in her 30 days notice. This shocked him, but opened a door for me. That was in august, and he still hasn't hired anyone to fill that spot.
He has offered me the job, good pay, all the benefits etc.
Now, I'm not crazy about the town, but it's not that big of a deal, it is, however really far away from both my family and my wife's. This is all secondary though, because houses average 60 or so dollar a square foot and we can get a nice sized house for "cheap" and family can visit any time.

The real catch is, he wants to sell the pharmacy in the next 10 years, and he would want me to buy it. Now, that sounds great, and really it is, BUT... while the money would be excellent I would be married to the job. We're talking 60-80 hour weeks, lots of stress, managing a large business (the pharmacy has a large Home Health department and a radioshack), etc etc.


So (and that's the abbreviated version), I'm trying to figure out what to do. I still think the AF is my first choice, but this other opportunity almost doesn't exist anymore. The big chains have killed the little guy, most independents are selling out or have gone out of business. This pharmacy has the infrastructure to last the duration, but I would be stuck in a small town in the middle of nowhere for...a while.

Now, that all said, if you were me, how would you approach this? Short term, the money wouldn't be appreciably different. Long term - Military has great retirement as you may know, but I would earn less in the mean time. I would make a great deal more owning the pharmacy, and would, presumably, make a good amount of coin when I finally sell it. Money is not everything though, I always vowed I would never be married to work. So, if you will, lend me your advice. I'm 26 and have never had a full time job for longer than 3 months at a time (summers), I've been a student non-stop since Pre-school.

[marge796]

Tim you can never go wrong with the Military. You'll gain a ton of experience that employers will jump all over. Not to mention the job security can't be beat. Good luck either way.


Chris.....

[Mugen910]

Two diff points of view bro...on the one side u talk about business and $...on the other you talk about military which means u follow orders and make very little $ (though officers make decent coin) The first oppoertunity may be far but who is to say the AF won't send you half way around the globe to be a pharmacist? Also if you have a wife, ask her opinion since she will be traveling with you in either aspect. I know the AF can keep u on a duty station for longer than a normal 3yr rotation if u know the right people.
It is tough to tell u what is best or give you the best unbiased advice since I served in the millitary, but I would say ask your family or significant other. The military has a tendency to break marriages. Best of luck in any choice.
Posted via Mobile Device

[baldanders]

The independently owned pharmacy may look good now but all it takes is any one of the big chains to open up near to it and there goes a big chunk of your business. Like all the big chains they come in to town set their prices lower then you can match or when your lease is up they offer the landlord more then you can match for your space.

[DrDubzz]

The independently owned pharmacy may look good now but all it takes is any one of the big chains to open up near to it and there goes a big chunk of your business. Like all the big chains they come in to town set their prices lower then you can match or when your lease is up they offer the landlord more then you can match for your space.

actually, the owner owns the buildings and the land outright, so that isn't a concern really. And CVS is about to come to the town, but they're buying out the other independent, which the owner of "my" pharmacy says will boost scripts by ~30%. The main financial concern with the independent would be if government meddling ruins reimbursements even more, etc.

and to Bao, my wife is on board with whatever I do. From talking to current active duty pharmacists, it is highly unlikely that I would be deployed (apparently there's a volunteer list a mile long) and she doesn't mind the moving aspect.

thanks for the responses, these are all things I'll either know or figure out that I need to find out. :tu

[WildBlueSooner]

As an O-3 with avg. US housing allowance you would make $73K. Not to mention the benefits, plus you are serving this great nation.

The AF kicks ass by the way! :banger

[GreekGodX]

Another pharmacy coming in actually would help your pharmacy. Think about McDonalds/BK/Wendy's or any fast food chain, ever see any of those by itself? There are always by each other it actually increases their business, and they help eachother.

While it is noble and a great thing to serve your country, I would take the job at the pharmacy. I've never served and can't comment on if it would be easier to start a family but it seems to me like it would be easier out of the military. I would say get your feet wet working at the pharmacy and see what it's actually like there. Maybe it won't be as much work as you think owning it. I imagine too owning the pharmacy would give you a greater chance to leave something to your children, whether it be the actually business or financially being able to support them.

This is a big decision to make, good luck to you. My prayers are with you Tim.

[Neuromancer]

Military option...the benefits are great...

[dogface_313]

As a pharmacist in the military you will make great money. You will make whatever your pay grade's base pay, plus doctors and specialty fields make extra money "special incentive pay" any where from 20K to 36 K dependent on your field. I hope whoever you are speaking to is telling you all this. Get board certified and you make even more. You can find all this information @ http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2010MilitaryPayTable34.pdf . I hope you are talking to an Officer recruiter, most recruitment stations have one or should direct you towards one. Regular recruiters will not be steering you in the right direction.

From my personal experience, I love the military. The quality of people that I work with is amazing. You will never meet a more dedicated, and motivated group of people.

When it comes down to it, if money is your biggest concern don't go military. I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering, I have never used anything I studied once since I graduated, and I make between 20K-30K less than my peers with similar degrees. However, like you said "it has always been a dream of mine to serve", if you don't you may very quickly find yourself regretting not doing so. I have never regret joining the military, and look forward going into work and training with my guys every day.\

Ultimately it is going to be a tough decision, but a noble one. If you have any more questions about military service, commissioning etc. shoot me a PM. Thanks for even considering joining the team, and oh yeah don't go chair force come to the Army!

[mikeandshellie2]

Hmm, well let me give you the advice of a AF wife. First and foremost military is HARD on a marriage you must make sure your marriage is secure and the both of you are very secure people independently. I've seen so many marriages tank over the years that it would scare you,( I've been with Mike for half of his career of 23 years). It's a great honor to serve the military,but at the same time I'm looking at you being the boss , thats an extremely rare thing nowadays. I say go try out the independent pharmacy first, give it a couple of years or at least one your still young enough that if you change your mind down the road you can go the military route.

[Lensjockie]

We're talking 60-80 hour weeks, lots of stress, that is the military.
That being said. At your age go see the world and the services will give you that and a paycheck. The up side is I have never seen an officer do poorly after they get out.
It is about the connections you make while you are in and they lead to much more once you are out. Plus health care is covered, housing, paycheck, and did I forget you earn your weight as a citizen rather than live by the freedoms others provide.

If CVS is coming it is more likely that he is looking fro the exit door, dollars to donuts once he had you in he'd try to sell it sooner rather than later.

Talk to the wife if she is onboard, aim high.

[md4958]

Opportunities like the one you have been offered dont come along every day. Even though its an hour from where you are now, you could always find a home halfway, and then only have a 30 minute commute.

You could even try it out for a year or two and see if you like it. If you dont, then enlist. I'm sure they would love to have a pharmacist with a few years experience under his belt.

The Air Force will always be there, an opportunity like this man has offered you does not. My :2

[pnoon]

Opportunities like the one you have been offered dont come along every day. Even though its an hour from where you are now, you could always find a home halfway, and then only have a 30 minute commute.

You could even try it out for a year or two and see if you like it. If you dont, then enlist. I'm sure they would love to have a pharmacist with a few years experience under his belt.

The Air Force will always be there, an opportunity like this man has offered you does not. My :2

Moe is wise.

Both opportunities offer great potential. And both have their downside. While reading thru all the replies, I was thinking I would recommend the local pharmacy opportunity solely on the basis of it being a "once in a lifetime" opportunity that would likely not present itself at a later date. The Air Force will still be there down the road.

:2

[DrDubzz]

Thank you everyone who has replied.

Allow me to clear up a couple things:

As for the AF, I have been solely in contact with a health profession (officer) recruiter, so I've been made away of all the incentive pay etc. (it's 20K for pharmacists).
AF Pharmacy does NOT generally deploy pharmacists, there's about a 99% chance that I would serve my time at whatever duty station I'm at, so it is highly unlikely that I would be separated from my wife for long periods of time. But I do appreciate the concerns over this.


As for the pharmacy - unfortunately the situation is not 'try for 2-5 years and decide if I want to buy in', it's basically, up front, I need to agree to begin buying in after about 3-5 years. Certainly if I truly hated it I could likely get out of it, but I don't want to do the owner wrong, and set him back several years with no backup plan. So really it's a 20-30 commitment up front on that.

Both are great opportunities, the pharmacy offers more money but many more hours of work as well, the air force offers the satisfaction of service to country, good enough pay and great benefits (which really can't be understated).

With that, I will await more opinions, I really appreciate all you guys have said so far, thanks!

[Vigiles]

Tough choice you have there brother.


i can't really offer much advice, but good luck!

[pnoon]

As for the pharmacy - unfortunately the situation is not 'try for 2-5 years and decide if I want to buy in', it's basically, up front, I need to agree to begin buying in after about 3-5 years. Certainly if I truly hated it I could likely get out of it, but I don't want to do the owner wrong, and set him back several years with no backup plan. So really it's a 20-30 commitment up front on that.


Would this be a contractual obligation on your part? If so, then the current owner would be bound to wait until 3 years to sell. 3 years should be ample time for you to assess the fit. Also, your desire to "do the owner no wrong" is admirable, you must look out for yourself first. I have a feeling he would do the same.

:2

[mash]

Would this be a contractual obligation on your part? If so, then the current owner would be bound to wait until 3 years to sell. 3 years should be ample time for you to assess the fit. Also, your desire to "do the owner no wrong" is admirable, you must look out for yourself first. I have a feeling he would do the same.

:2

Exactly what I was going to write. A llfe time is a long time, and buying this pharmacy is a huge commitment. You need to see how you like it, and how you like living in a small town. Lifestyle is very important, the older you get, the more you appreciate it. If there is something in the contract that deals with you buying the business, make sure you get a contract lawyer to review it, so that you know what it potentially binds you to.
Also, 3 years will give you a sense of the effect CVS is going to have on the business. An owner who is looking to sell is not going to tell you that scripts are going to go down. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not. He's 42 and he's looking to sell, there's a reason for that.

[Volt]

Wow, lot of good answers. One thing I keep seeing you alude to is the long hours you would put in as the owner of the pharmacy. Make no mistake you will put in at least the same in the military. I was Navy and I would say 60 hours a week was the norm not the exception. As one man once told me, you will never get rich fiscally in the service, but may be enrichened by serving. Working for your self is where real money is made.

I don't feel any feel desire from you to own a business, not sure why, just not coming accross. So if you not inclined to own/run a business might not be a great idea. One other option to consider, work the civilian life for a 2 - 3 years, take on a second pharmacist as it sounds like 2 are needed in that store anyway and join the AF/Navy reserves/guard. Even in the rual area where I live the mom and pos have still withstood the big boxes coming in. CVS has survived as well as Wally World, Walgreens has closed. Still 2 or 3 local owned as well. I hate Wally World so I try to spend my $$$$ elsewhere when I can.

Good luck in your choice.

[DrDubzz]

Another clarification

The owner is not looking to sell right away, he is, however, looking for someone to take over in the next 10 years. I've seen the financials on the place, revenue stream is of no concern, his being an independent, and having working protocols with the physicians in town allows him to do so much more than any chain could ever do. The practice setting would be nice, but Volt, you're right, I really don't know if I want the responsibility of owning a business, I've always said I didn't want to, but this is a unique situation

[DrDubzz]

Would this be a contractual obligation on your part? If so, then the current owner would be bound to wait until 3 years to sell. 3 years should be ample time for you to assess the fit. Also, your desire to "do the owner no wrong" is admirable, you must look out for yourself first. I have a feeling he would do the same.

:2


Exactly what I was going to write. A llfe time is a long time, and buying this pharmacy is a huge commitment. You need to see how you like it, and how you like living in a small town. Lifestyle is very important, the older you get, the more you appreciate it. If there is something in the contract that deals with you buying the business, make sure you get a contract lawyer to review it, so that you know what it potentially binds you to.
Also, 3 years will give you a sense of the effect CVS is going to have on the business. An owner who is looking to sell is not going to tell you that scripts are going to go down. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not. He's 42 and he's looking to sell, there's a reason for that.



This I don't know, we haven't gotten that far into negotiations. I have been extended the offer, but as far as details, those haven't been covered in any specificity.

[Volt]

Extra money and maybe a bit of effort, but you could bring on a manager for the business side (payroll, stock, advertising, etc) and you could be the drug side of the house. Hire them or go 51/49 type of deal.

Another clarification

The owner is not looking to sell right away, he is, however, looking for someone to take over in the next 10 years. I've seen the financials on the place, revenue stream is of no concern, his being an independent, and having working protocols with the physicians in town allows him to do so much more than any chain could ever do. The practice setting would be nice, but Volt, you're right, I really don't know if I want the responsibility of owning a business, I've always said I didn't want to, but this is a unique situation

[DrDubzz]

Extra money and maybe a bit of effort, but you could bring on a manager for the business side (payroll, stock, advertising, etc) and you could be the drug side of the house. Hire them or go 51/49 type of deal.

true, but honestly, the only way it would be worth financially is to own it outright.

otherwise I could make the same money at a chain store (although I have zero desire to work at a chain store)


Really, my decision can simplified like this

a) great benefits, job satisfaction, and practice setting

b) more money, unique practice setting/freedom, more stress


B would also offer the stability of living in one place long term (for better or worse) whereas (A) would be moving every 3-5 years for 20 or so years, but then I could plop down cash for a house wherever I want while still receiving retirement

The problem is I can't truly go wrong, I'm just trying to figure out which might be better. Deep down I'm still leaning military, but they need to pick up the pace on things :su

[MedicCook]

Sounds like you are going to be a winner in either choice. :tu Good luck Tim.

[Thrak]

It sounds to me as if you've already made up your mind to go into the AF and you just want us to validate that.

Do what makes you happy.

Personally, I'd take the private sector job. If you've spent that much time in school to learn it, you must enjoy it and you'll get more satisfaction (I think) out of seeing the people you help daily rather than being on a base where you never see the same person twice. Be a member of a community, or be just another "Doc".

[alley00p]

FOG (and ex-USAF) here... :D

Tim, I served 1 tour in the USAF, and volunteered for "SEA". Somehow, instead I was stationed at Nellis AFB, outside of Vegas for 3 years, but I spent a lot of time TDY'd to other places during my tour. I worked for Ma Bell prior to my enlistment in the AF, and when I got out, I went gladly back to my old job at home. As much as I enjoyed my time in the AF, I was glad to go back to civilian life. After 31 years with the Bell System, retiring and working a full-time job now, I have few regrets.

If it were me, I'd definately take a long look at the pharmacy deal first. If you decide running a business isn't for you, you can always enlist later, and have a little more "practical" experience. And you can always join the "reserves" in the meantime, if you want to. Even up in Northern Michigan, my middle son was in the National Guard, while he was living in a very small town.

But from my perspective, it's nice to be able to plan for the future. running a business in a small town, has some nice perks - being home most of the time, and having a chance to put money away for yourself and your family.

Don't get me wrong - I would never run someone down because they want to serve their country. I did it, and have no problem with my boys doing it either. But each person has to decide if that is their "bowl of rice".

Good luck with whatever decision you make, Tim!! :tu

:dance:

[RazzBarlow]

I don't have military service, so I can't advise you on that realm. I did own my own business for a while.

The money was great...when the money was great. When it wasn't, it was HORRIBLE. I also fell into a trap early on in my business owner career; I saw all this money in my bank account and thought I was rich. Then, I came to the shocking realization that I had bills to pay. (Sounds stupid, I know) But there are so many hidden things you don't realize are going to come up, and they inevitably come up right after you buy that toy you wanted.

Working for myself was very rewarding, but it was also very stressful. Not only do you have your family to worry about, you have employees to worry about. Your vendor relations. Lawyer, accountant, insurance people. The amount of time it takes to RUN a business takes you away from the nuts and bolts of the business...which is what you enjoy and why you got into the business to begin with.

Nothing makes you appreciate a regular paycheck like owning your own business!

That said, under the right circumstances, I would do it again in a heartbeat. Obviously I would do some things differently with the experience I have.

So, I guess I'm taking the long way around to telling you to go for owning the business. If you do, mine the previous owner's experience for everything you can. He's probably dealt with just about every problem you're going to come up against and knows how to deal with it.

Marshall

[DrDubzz]

thanks for the input Marshall

The owner has said it would be about a 3-5 year learning process for the business side, which is why I would have that long before having to start buying it. He is a fantastic businessman, but I'm really not a business person, so while he would teach me, I worry that I don't have that innate business sense that some have, and I wouldn't want to be the guy that fails on the pharmacy and hurts the community.

That's my main reservation about the pharmacy, other than the 80 hour weeks.

[RazzBarlow]

If you use the tools that are available. AARP has some great mentor programs and other things available. Use the current owner for his knowledge and his experience. Get a good tax guy and take his advice, etc... If you do that, it would be hard to FAIL at that business. You'll stumble, you'll hit bumps in the road, but epic fail? Not likely. As long as you keep an open mind and use the tools available, you should be OK.

The most important thing I can tell you is this. Your customer can buy what you're selling down the road (or on his web browser on his cell phone, these days). What are you doing differently that he can't get anywhere else? Usually the answer is: excellent service. It's free for me to provide and it always reaps benefits.

Marshall

[Volt]

If you use the tools that are available. AARP has some great mentor programs and other things available. Use the current owner for his knowledge and his experience. Get a good tax guy and take his advice, etc... If you do that, it would be hard to FAIL at that business. You'll stumble, you'll hit bumps in the road, but epic fail? Not likely. As long as you keep an open mind and use the tools available, you should be OK.

The most important thing I can tell you is this. Your customer can buy what you're selling down the road (or on his web browser on his cell phone, these days). What are you doing differently that he can't get anywhere else? Usually the answer is: excellent service. It's free for me to provide and it always reaps benefits.

Marshall

Wow, never thought of it that way and you are so correct. Saving a buck to get crappy service? I'll take the better service any day of the week. Well worth the money spent.

[ashtonlady]

I have lived on both sides of this fence. I was in the Navy and am now a Business owner.
They both have there ups and downs. If you really want to work for yourself go for it while you are young and have the drive and stamina. If all you want to do is pay off your loans then go to the AF and look for a job when you decide you have had enough.

[DrDubzz]

I finally have an interview tomorrow with the Air Force, I'm excited

I should find out tomorrow or next week if I'm medically cleared (the only hang up was a mole I had removed this past summer)

[Whynot]

The AF has been great to me. With that being said, only believe what a recruiter can show you in regulations or writing. Don't believe for a minute that you will work set hours and never deploy. The pharmacist at my home station when I left for Iraq was covering two bases because the others were deployed. A recruiters job is to convince you without flat out lying. If you can, talk to a couple of active duty pharms before agreeing to anything. I think everyone dreams at some point of owning their own business. Personally I would jump at that chance. As others have said, the military will always be there.
Holy run-on train of thought.

[DrDubzz]

my interview is moments away, it's with an active duty pharmacist, I've got a good list of questions for him

[Smokin Gator]

I really don't know if I want the responsibility of owning a business, I've always said I didn't want to, but this is a unique situation

That would answer it for me right there!!!

I am just the opposite, however, and it came from my grandfather. He always said, "Son, you will never make anything working for another man. You have got to work for yourself." That has always stuck in my mind and it took me a long time to get there. I am finally there and couldn't be happier.

Also, I am back in the small town where I grew up and love it... That may not be what you are happy with though. It is certainly different, but to me it is much more "real."