Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum  

Go Back   Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum > Non Cigar Specialty Forums > Wine, Beer, and Spirits

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-21-2010, 12:11 AM   #41
icehog3
Admiral Douchebag
 
icehog3's Avatar
15
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Tom
Location: Clermont, Kentucky
Posts: 70,447
Trading: (61)
HUpmann
icehog3 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Barry, I didn't mean to imply that there aren't good bottles of wine that are inexpensive...I just used the context to try to clarify Vic's original question. I have had lots of great wine for under $20 a bottle as well.
__________________


Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!
icehog3 is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 12:17 AM   #42
bscottskangum
Oh yeah, I'm awesome!
 
bscottskangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
First Name: Barry
Location: Hampton, VA
Posts: 681
Trading: (11)
Montecristo
bscottskangum will become famous soon enoughbscottskangum will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 View Post
Barry, I didn't mean to imply that there aren't good bottles of wine that are inexpensive...I just used the context to try to clarify Vic's original question. I have had lots of great wine for under $20 a bottle as well.
I realize it was a clarification of the question, I quoted you since you were the easiest to get to .... or should I say that I quoted you because your clarification was concise and to the point
bscottskangum is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 12:21 AM   #43
icehog3
Admiral Douchebag
 
icehog3's Avatar
15
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Tom
Location: Clermont, Kentucky
Posts: 70,447
Trading: (61)
HUpmann
icehog3 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by bscottskangum View Post
I realize it was a clarification of the question, I quoted you since you were the easiest to get to .... or should I say that I quoted you because your clarification was concise and to the point
Aw, shucks.
__________________


Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!
icehog3 is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 12:44 AM   #44
T.G
Grrrrrr
 
T.G's Avatar
16
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
First Name: The Other Adam
Posts: 15,535
Trading: (37)
Navy (Served With Honor)
T.G has disabled reputation
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 View Post
The question is why would someone hesitate to spend $14 on a high end 6-pack of beer but gladly shell that out for a low end bottle of wine?
Because beer is viewed as a lower cost beverage, and generally speaking, it is. Cost and availability of ingredients and production is totally different for beer versus wine.

Ultimately, it's apples and oranges, it's really not a fair comparison. To compare a $14 6-pack of high-end beer to wine, one needs to find the appropriate comparison point, which, honestly, I'm not sure where that is, probably around $35-40 even 50, maybe as high as $60 or 70.

Not to say that there aren't some great $14 wines, but there are also some great $6-7 beers out there. And some bad $14 beers and some absolute crap wines for $14. Cost is not always a determining factor, but unfortunately, for a lot of public perception, price is sometimes wrongly equated to quality.
T.G is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 02:28 AM   #45
JE3146
Jordan #2
 
JE3146's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Jordan
Location: Tigard, OR
Posts: 2,115
Trading: (26)
Partagas
JE3146 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G View Post
Because beer is viewed as a lower cost beverage, and generally speaking, it is. Cost and availability of ingredients and production is totally different for beer versus wine.

Ultimately, it's apples and oranges, it's really not a fair comparison. To compare a $14 6-pack of high-end beer to wine, one needs to find the appropriate comparison point, which, honestly, I'm not sure where that is, probably around $35-40 even 50, maybe as high as $60 or 70.

Not to say that there aren't some great $14 wines, but there are also some great $6-7 beers out there. And some bad $14 beers and some absolute crap wines for $14. Cost is not always a determining factor, but unfortunately, for a lot of public perception, price is sometimes wrongly equated to quality.
Yup.

Take for example my favorite brand of beer. Ninkasi out of Eugene OR. Why do I like it? It's cheap GOOD beer. 3.99 / 22 oz bottle. In fact it's one of the best bangs for the buck I've ever found in beer. And it's made in state to boot. I know some people who won't even touch it because it's "too cheap."


In response to the OP, I draw the line at 1$ / ounce. Most I've ever spent on a 22 oz bottle is 21.49, and the most i've spent on a 12 oz bottle is 11.49. I rarely do that, and more times than not it's a special or limited release and curiosity gets the better of me.

In OR though, craft beer is a way of life. We are SNOBs (Supporters of Native Oregon Beer)


As for wines, my palette isn't nearly developed enough in that hobby to pick out "bad from good." I just know styles and what I like in that regard. When it comes to brands, I usually just sample those in my price range and find ones I enjoy drinking. As for whether or not they're "good" by someone else's standards isn't a care of mine as my opinion is the ultimate deciding factor

I approach things that way with beer, with wine, with food, and even cigars.
JE3146 is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 04:45 AM   #46
Resipsa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 View Post
I absolutely agree that taste is subjective in every sense, but I still don't think that the point Vic is trying to make in the OP s what is now being debated.

The question is why would someone hesitate to spend $14 on a high end 6-pack of beer but gladly shell that out for a low end bottle of wine?
Thank You Tom! Exactly.
 
Old 03-21-2010, 06:19 AM   #47
macpappy
Rider on the storm.
 
macpappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 851
Trading: (0)
Cohiba CoastGuard (Retired)
macpappy will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiddick View Post
OK, I agree with the first statement and also posted same thought before. I'd rather drink good beer than cheap wine (although there are some great cheap wines if one knows the market and knows what to buy).

But I do disagree with the second. I cannot imagine any beer to be as bad as Cremosa (is to cigars). Also, once again, taste is subjective, not objective. Some people simply don't like high end Belgian beers/ales, and some people don't like Cohibas no matter the "status" nor high price (exclusivity).
Ever try a Buckhorn?
__________________
WARNING: I am a Southern White Male. I have a brain and I know how to use it.
macpappy is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 06:32 AM   #48
SeanGAR
Crotchety Geezer
 
SeanGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Radford VA
Posts: 911
Trading: (3)
SeanGAR has disabled reputation
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
what exactly is "world class"? and who gets to decide that ?
World class = best in the world.

I do.

Perhaps I should have said "world class to me", but I thought that was obvious.

I don't buy wine based on Robert Parker recommendations and I don't buy beer based on what reviewers at www.ratebeer.com or www.beeradvocate.com have to say, since my taste in beer and wine is different from all of the above.

I know when I say that I hate Imperial Russian Stout and Belgian Abbey Ales that many beer aficionados will tell me that I'm crazy .. but I really don't care, I drink what I like. Same with wines.

For example, in MY opinion:

World class beer: Weyerbacker Simcoe Ale - 11 bucks a 4 pak.
World class wine: Caymus special select - north of 100.

The PRICE doesn't make these world class, how much I like them does.
__________________
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
SeanGAR is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 07:03 AM   #49
Salvelinus
Have My Own Room
 
Salvelinus's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
First Name: Brendan
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,116
Trading: (12)
Salvelinus will become famous soon enoughSalvelinus will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

For 2009, craft brewery sales represented 4.3 percent of volume and 6.9 percent of retail dollars of the $101 billion U.S. beer industry, the association reports.http://www.mlive.com/kalamabrew/inde...7_percent.html

There just aren't that many people out there educated about good beer. On the off chance they might pick up a craft six pack they probably get turned off by the fact that it doesn't taste like the other three beers they have had (bud,miller,coors) and therefore can't understand why you would pay so much for that crap (their words not mine).
Salvelinus is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 07:27 AM   #50
mosesbotbol
That's a Corgi
 
mosesbotbol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Moses
Location: Boston
Posts: 6,170
Trading: (6)
Punch
mosesbotbol is a jewel in the roughmosesbotbol is a jewel in the roughmosesbotbol is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 View Post
The question is why would someone hesitate to spend $14 on a high end 6-pack of beer but gladly shell that out for a low end bottle of wine?
That's easy because they don't enjoy beer enough to spend $14 on a 6 pack.
__________________
Port Wine & Claret | British Cars | Welsh Corgi's
mosesbotbol is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 07:56 AM   #51
icehog3
Admiral Douchebag
 
icehog3's Avatar
15
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Tom
Location: Clermont, Kentucky
Posts: 70,447
Trading: (61)
HUpmann
icehog3 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesbotbol View Post
That's easy because they don't enjoy beer enough to spend $14 on a 6 pack.
Could be exactly that for some.
__________________


Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!
icehog3 is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 08:19 AM   #52
macpappy
Rider on the storm.
 
macpappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 851
Trading: (0)
Cohiba CoastGuard (Retired)
macpappy will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanGAR View Post
World class = best in the world.

The PRICE doesn't make these world class, how much I like them does.
__________________
WARNING: I am a Southern White Male. I have a brain and I know how to use it.
macpappy is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 11:48 AM   #53
Resipsa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiddick View Post
Vic, I do not agree with your "This post doesn't" POV. Same way you framed the question of "why not..." I can also ask, Why do cigar smokers, in general, have no issue paying $15-20 PER CIGAR (and more in some cases) when they will also tell you that spending that same sum on a bottle of wine is stupid?

Since taste is subjective (and there is no argument on this point, just let me know what you think of cow tongue aspic), why do you simply assume that what is great beer to you simply MUST be great beer for everyone else? Isn't this snobbish and elitist point of view, the point of contention in your original post?

You still didn't answer my question as to what is a great bottle of wine to YOU?
Greg, I'm not ignoring you, it's just that what is great to me is not the point of my question.

You obviously work in the wine trade, but trust me my question is not some secret plot to replace wine with beer and destroy your industry It's an honest question that i'm curious about.

If you must know, a great wine to me is one I enjoy. Can I find one for $14.00 a bottle? Sure. But IN GENERAL, wine at that price point is a low end wine. Drinkable, okay, but world class? No. Are there diamonds in the rough? Sure, same as with anything else. But the diamonds in the rough are still not comparable to the best wines in the world, are they? If they were, what would possibly justify the prices places like Screaming Eagle charge for their wine? Yet people will not only willingly pay these prices, they'll step on grandma's head to do it.

Flip side of the coin. Beer for $14.00 a sixpack. IN GENERAL that is going to get you some mighty fine beer, probably a beer that is one of the best in the world in it's class. Yet people ***** and moan about it and I find that funny, a little sad, and don't understand it. Are there duds? Sure. But it's the flip side of the equation, the duds are FAR outnumbered by the great beers at that price point. And the duds are rarely truly awful beers, rather it's just that they are priced too high for what they are, they are still much better than most beer out there.

And before the Bud topic comes up again, comparing Bud to craft beer is like comparing Boones Farm to Screaming Eagle. I'm willing to bet that a helluva lot more boones farm is sold every year than Screaming Eagle. Does that make Boones Farm a better wine?

Last edited by Resipsa; 03-21-2010 at 11:53 AM.
 
Old 03-21-2010, 12:01 PM   #54
TheRiddick
Non-believer
 
TheRiddick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
First Name: Greg
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 943
Trading: (7)
TheRiddick will become famous soon enoughTheRiddick will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 View Post
The question is why would someone hesitate to spend $14 on a high end 6-pack of beer but gladly shell that out for a low end bottle of wine?
I'll take a wild stab here, because they like WINE?


Will we ever find out what constitutes a great bottle of wine for the OP? (Hint, its only my THIRD attempt now).
TheRiddick is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 12:40 PM   #55
Loon
Just in from the Storm
 
Loon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: x
Location: x
Posts: 34
Trading: (0)
Bolivar Army (Active)
Loon will become famous soon enoughLoon will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiddick View Post
I'll take a wild stab here, because they like WINE?


Will we ever find out what constitutes a great bottle of wine for the OP? (Hint, its only my THIRD attempt now).
Loon is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 02:07 PM   #56
TheRiddick
Non-believer
 
TheRiddick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
First Name: Greg
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 943
Trading: (7)
TheRiddick will become famous soon enoughTheRiddick will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resipsa View Post
You obviously work in the wine trade, but trust me my question is not some secret plot to replace wine with beer and destroy your industry

And before the Bud topic comes up again, comparing Bud to craft beer is like comparing Boones Farm to Screaming Eagle. I'm willing to bet that a helluva lot more boones farm is sold every year than Screaming Eagle. Does that make Boones Farm a better wine?
You're kidding, right? Yeah, I am really worried that your questions will "destroy your industry"? My take on your POVs are based on you calling others snobs only because they prefer wine over beer. Like I said, that is Snobbery 101 (expecting and insisting that people like what you like).

Bud was used not to "compare" anything, apples to oranges like you stated, but simply to make it obvious that what is great to you is probably crap to someone else, and visa versa. I could have used Heineken or Beck's or any other beer that you may not consider "world class", the name or production quantity are inconsequential here. What is, though, is asking "Why is this guy buying bagels when I prefer this world class french baggette?" and acting like there should be no disagreement with your taste/spending preferences.

Bud was still a great example, IMO, to show that even when given a CHOICE and (lower) price of competing products, people PREFER to buy Bud, to THEM it is WORLD CLASS.

Thank you for confirming the obvious. Your deliberate omission of stating what constitutes great wine to YOU would probably result in a number of people pointing out it is not great wine to THEM (I am actually willing to bet on this). Exactly the point you refuse to acknowledge and the one, I am sure, you did foresee coming.

Anyway, thanks for pointing out to a number of us just how unrefined and "snobbish" our palates and buying preferences are.

I'll go and pick out a non-Cohiba to smoke on a deck, its nice outside... And while I am at it, pop open an $18 bottle of wine which I do consider great (friend of mine makes it). To edukat and rephine my pallet...
TheRiddick is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 02:35 PM   #57
Skywalker
BABOTL
 
Skywalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Dice
Location: Galaxy Far Far Away
Posts: 10,168
Trading: (18)
Partagas
Skywalker has much to be proud ofSkywalker has much to be proud ofSkywalker has much to be proud ofSkywalker has much to be proud ofSkywalker has much to be proud ofSkywalker has much to be proud ofSkywalker has much to be proud ofSkywalker has much to be proud of
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Mmm Old Stock!!!

I drink it with my pinky up!!!
__________________

Smoke what you like!!!
Skywalker is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 02:38 PM   #58
NCRadioMan
Chutney Lovebusciut
 
NCRadioMan's Avatar
2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Chutney
Location: On the shores of Loch Shiel
Posts: 4,275
Trading: (66)
RG
NCRadioMan has disabled reputation
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiddick View Post
You're kidding, right?
Yes, he was. Note the smiley.
__________________
The path to loyalty is trust.
NCRadioMan is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 02:41 PM   #59
WildBlueSooner
I'm nuts for the place
 
WildBlueSooner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
First Name: James
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 3,322
Trading: (19)
AirForce (Served With Honor)
WildBlueSooner has a spectacular aura aboutWildBlueSooner has a spectacular aura aboutWildBlueSooner has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Beer is good!
Wine is good!

What is the question again?
__________________
"To dilute the will to win is to destroy the purpose of the game. There is no substitute for victory"-- Douglas MacArthur
WildBlueSooner is offline  
Old 03-21-2010, 02:55 PM   #60
NCRadioMan
Chutney Lovebusciut
 
NCRadioMan's Avatar
2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Chutney
Location: On the shores of Loch Shiel
Posts: 4,275
Trading: (66)
RG
NCRadioMan has disabled reputation
Default Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiddick View Post
My take on your POVs are based on you calling others snobs only because they prefer wine over beer.
Please point out where Vic called anyone a snob. I missed it.
__________________
The path to loyalty is trust.
NCRadioMan is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content is copyrighted jointly by Cigar Asylum and the content provider.