So, newbies and good smokes don't go together?

12-09-2008, 02:35 PM

So, I am totally under-employed. I sit in an office at a military base waiting for healthy patients come in. So, I get alot of online reading time. Sure, I could read up on career-related materials, but that wouldn't be fun!

So, I read alot here. It seems that so many people are discussing how a cigar only shows its true beauty after a bit of aging. Then, people start detailing what a "bit of aging" is. 1 year minimum!?!? Multiple years!?!?! 20 YEARS !!!

That gets me thinking. If I were a newbie, if I were to have just recently bought a humidor and only began to stock it with cigars...the contents inside wouldn't declare themselves for a year (or more). Now, I am a special case, by the time I came back from Cuba, I had started my hobbie, seasoned the humidor and already had it pretty much full with cigars direct from the makers. So, at this moment, this newbie has 50+ cigars that are at least 1 month in my possession. But, I have added to that selection with trips to 3 different B&Ms. Mind you, a B&M is always a financially humbling experience, so I doubt many people add more than 5 cigars at a time to their collection from a B&M visit. Probably more like 3 cigars at a time. I imagine it probably takes most newbies a little time to get familiar and comfortable with venturing into the world of online cigar purchasing as well.

The sheer logistics of it pretty much have newbies not really smoking any aged cigars on a regular basis until probably 1.5 - 2 years in. That's quite a bit of time to be able to get to the good stuff, when talking about a hobby that involves consuming products (as opposed to hobbies that involve developing skills or building projects etc).

Where am I going with this? I don't know, lets see how people respond to this thread-start and then let it go from there.

I guess one question would be, has anyone come across a cigar that reliably stands on its own straight out of the B&M, or maybe 1-2 months in the humidor? A cigar that can tide you over while your "investment matures". Further, because its silly to throw large money at a new hobby until you know you are "in", another requirement would be "the cigar has to be cheap." I know, people are going to say "Any cigar can be a good cigar now". I guess I include in this thread an interest in hearing people talk about a cigar of particular note that appreciably stands up to the "less than a year old" test.

Or, anything else related that you want to talk about.

Cheers

Cyanide

replicant_argent · 12-09-2008, 02:45 PM

Buy 'em aged...

ucla695 · 12-09-2008, 02:53 PM

Interesting thread. I think cigars are like wine and there’s definitely a learning curve associated with each. Tastes evolve and the young, unbalanced stuff you started out with is replaced by nicely aged stock. One of the ways to gain an appreciation for the good stuff is to have the not-so-good stuff and evolve. Patience is the name of the game. So is buying more than you can consume. If done over an extended period of time, you’ll have some nicely aged cigars. But that doesn’t really help you now. I’d keep an eye open for sales and trades of cigars in the ‘Cigars in Motion’ sub forums. Who knows. You might be able to pick up some with a little age.

As far as what smokes good out of the box, I suggest trying some Padrons. The Anniversary lines are great. Arturo Fuente Don Carlos cigars are also great from the get-go.

Lucky_Hippo · 12-09-2008, 03:08 PM

Most NC's have already been aged before being rolled. Enjoy them straight out of the box all you like. ISOM's are of course a different breed, but if your looking at NC's, the aging and tending thing is more part of the hobby then the actual development of the sticks. Master blenders who have grown up in the field and have smoked more sticks than you or I could in a lifetime have designed a certain profile they wish to share with us. Believe me, It's perfectly acceptable to smoke "fresh" NC sticks to your harts content. It's how the blenders would want you to.

Nothing against aged sticks or the practice of aging sticks. I know a lot of BOTL's live by the aged stick alone it's just not everyone's cup of tea.

Flame on

acarr · 12-09-2008, 03:17 PM

I guess one question would be, has anyone come across a cigar that reliably stands on its own straight out of the B&M, or maybe 1-2 months in the humidor? A cigar that can tide you over while your "investment matures".

I would say any of the Oliva that I tried fit this category. Both inexpensive and tasty right out of the store. The Padron's are also very tasty right out of the store but they are not so inexpensive.

12-09-2008, 03:25 PM

I started by buying from other BOTLs. Many ppl who sell grab bags have lots of age on them already. Also it gave me a chance to try out different smokes!

landhoney · 12-09-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyanide

The sheer logistics of it pretty much have newbies not really smoking any aged cigars on a regular basis until probably 1.5 - 2 years in. That's quite a bit of time to be able to get to the good stuff,

Everyone should start with Dunhills and Davidoff's and work their way down to Cremosa's <sarcasm>.

Why rush the process? If you start with the best of the best what's to get excited about? I enjoy the process. I agree with ucla695's post above, except for the cigar recommendations...buy CC's.

On the recommendation side; Parti Shorts, RASCC's, SCdlH El Pricipe's all smoke well fresh to my tastes. Oh and Mag 50's, I'm aging some for sure but I could smoke these fresh a couple times a week no problem. I think there are many CC's that are very good fresh. And there have been some great deals on semi-aged stock. Too easy for this noob(6 months smoking experience), and I'm an idiot(several people will attest to this).

Snake Hips · 12-09-2008, 07:04 PM

Non-Cubans don't really need any age. As mentioned, they're pre-aged.

Cubans tend to need age, because they're rolled fresh. Many do stand up fresh though. H. Upmann Coronas Major and Magnum 50 are very good fresh as are the Partagas Serie D No. 4 and Bolivar Petite Coronas (well, any Bolivar will blow your head apart at any time of its life). The solution to the noob's entrance to Cubans is to buy them aged. I'm a Cuban noob with half a Vinotemp full of Cubans, but I own very few fresh cigars. I bought them aged and acquired them aged from the collections of other BOTLs. Most of my fresh Cuban cigars are ones that are good fresh anyway.

spectrrr · 12-10-2008, 12:02 AM

I am a relative noob. But the one thing I have learned is that over time, lots of time, tastes evolve as much as a cigar. they become more refined, less tolerant of crap, AND able to discern subtle nuances of a stick that would be hidden from a less experienced smoker.

I went back and revisited some of the sticks that I got started on and couldn't even stand smoking them. I have learned to discern the crap, and moved up in the world. But I can't say that I've learned to fully appreciate the subtle nuances of some cigars. sure, i'll enjoy the cigar, but I'm still a little green. So although I have a few very nice sticks in my humidor... I'm still waiting a little longer for my palate to catch up with the level that I know those sticks will smoke at.

so whats that got to do with aging sticks? simple. start collecting the good stuff now. put it away for a bit, you don't need to start off your smoking career on the high end stuff, it is in my (very inexperienced) opinion, a waste of a good stick. Why smoke a $15 stick and enjoy it when you could have gotten the same enjoyment from a $10 stick? put the $15 ones away for aging, and wait for your tastes to mature. by that point, maybe a lot of those $5 sticks will be tasting rather boring and flat. GREAT. move on up a level to the sticks you've been aging. now you have nice aged stock AND the palate to fully appreciate them.

bobarian · 12-10-2008, 01:15 AM

As the others have said, most NC's are good with just a bit of rest. They are made with aged tobacco and many are aged in warehouses for a longer periods to help flavors develop. Cubans are a different animal all together. Once they are rolled and go through their first fermentation, many are good to go. 06 and 07 Siglo II's were great fresh. Many others are also very good fresh, RASS, RASCC, Party Shorts, Party Short Churchill's, Hoyo Short Robusto's were all very good fresh. But almost all CC's will get even better with age. It is not that difficult to find aged CC's, even your B&M may have smokes with a few years age, just ask. As you collection grows, you will have a good assortment of reasonably aged smokes to consume. At the same time if you keep building your stock of fresh boxes to age you will always have aged stock to smoke. 20yr old smokes? Only had a handful, But this is a hobby to enjoy, dont stress that you dont have any 70's Monte's in your regular rotation.

WyoBob · 12-10-2008, 06:42 AM

Quote:

most NC's are good with just a bit of rest.

And a bit of rest is a long way from aging.

It seems from reading cigar forums and my own experience, letting cigars sit in your humi/cooler for several months is almost always beneficial. A lot of mail order cigars (CI/CBid) seem to be shipped wet and letting the acclimate to my 65% coolers for several months seem to improve how they smoke quite a bit.

WyoBob

macpappy · 12-10-2008, 08:45 AM

I have a single B&M that I shop at regularly and I would not hesitate to smoke anything purchase right out of the box. But then this particular B&M not only keeps his walk-in Humidor properly maintained but he rarely puts anything on the shelf until they have sat in his humidified storeroom for a month or two.

I have both a 50 cigar humidor maintained at 65% and a large cooler also kept at 65%. The humidor are my ready to smoke cigars. The cooler is where I keep all my new purchases and about once a month I'll refill my humidor as needed and add to my humidor. This has allowed me to smoke different cigars at different "resting points" to discover how much time my cigars have to rest to reach MY OPTIMAL taste point.

htown · 12-10-2008, 09:47 AM

I would say that I have never smoked a bad Fuente Short Story

shemp · 12-10-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htown

I would say that I have never smoked a bad Fuente Short Story

...then go ahead...say it...hee hee

12-10-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htown

I would say that I have never smoked a bad Fuente Short Story

Quote:

Originally Posted by shemp

...then go ahead...say it...hee hee

Oooof, I have! Great thread Cyanide!

Volt · 12-10-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macpappy

....

I have both a 50 cigar humidor maintained at 65% and a large cooler also kept at 65%. The humidor are my ready to smoke cigars. The cooler is where I keep all my new purchases and about once a month I'll refill my humidor as needed and add to my humidor. This has allowed me to smoke different cigars at different "resting points" to discover how much time my cigars have to rest to reach MY OPTIMAL taste point.

I'm kinda liking your way of thinking.... I may have to try this setup.

12-10-2008, 12:50 PM

I say smoke em if you got em. Aging is good for some cigars and they do smoke better with age on them but that shouldn't stop you from having a few out of the box and then let the rest age. I buy boxes, 5 paks and smoke a few of them right when I get them and they are great. The more you buy the more you can let some rest while you take a few out and smoke em.

12-10-2008, 01:56 PM

This is great discussion. While it is always good to age them, it is also good to the soul to have one now (at least those with low tolerance for delayed gratification).

I think I am going to adapt a new buying policy. One cigar now, 3 cigars later, 1 box for the special. Cigar one = trial of my liking. 3 cigars later = bought to age them once I know I like them (2 to share, 1 to burn). Boxes will come as favourites develop.

Wow, is there anything that I am not able to develop a protocol or standard procedure for. It seems as if I live from list of check-boxes.

Cheers

Cyanide

12-10-2008, 02:10 PM

^^ That's why you're a military man!

RGD. · 12-10-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigary

I say smoke em if you got em. Aging is good for some cigars and they do smoke better with age on them but that shouldn't stop you from having a few out of the box and then let the rest age. I buy boxes, 5 paks and smoke a few of them right when I get them and they are great. The more you buy the more you can let some rest while you take a few out and smoke em.

Yep. Personally - I like fresh cigars. I'll smoke them all day long right off the rollers table. As I have said before - I don't age anything on purpose. Heck I might up and die and then I'd really be pissed off. And it's not like it can't happen - been this --><-- close already.

So yeah - if I want an aged cigar then I buy them that way. Otherwise it's smoke them now.

Ron

12-09-2008, 02:35 PM	#1
Cyanide Guest Posts: n/a	So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? So, I am totally under-employed. I sit in an office at a military base waiting for healthy patients come in. So, I get alot of online reading time. Sure, I could read up on career-related materials, but that wouldn't be fun! So, I read alot here. It seems that so many people are discussing how a cigar only shows its true beauty after a bit of aging. Then, people start detailing what a "bit of aging" is. 1 year minimum!?!? Multiple years!?!?! 20 YEARS !!! That gets me thinking. If I were a newbie, if I were to have just recently bought a humidor and only began to stock it with cigars...the contents inside wouldn't declare themselves for a year (or more). Now, I am a special case, by the time I came back from Cuba, I had started my hobbie, seasoned the humidor and already had it pretty much full with cigars direct from the makers. So, at this moment, this newbie has 50+ cigars that are at least 1 month in my possession. But, I have added to that selection with trips to 3 different B&Ms. Mind you, a B&M is always a financially humbling experience, so I doubt many people add more than 5 cigars at a time to their collection from a B&M visit. Probably more like 3 cigars at a time. I imagine it probably takes most newbies a little time to get familiar and comfortable with venturing into the world of online cigar purchasing as well. The sheer logistics of it pretty much have newbies not really smoking any aged cigars on a regular basis until probably 1.5 - 2 years in. That's quite a bit of time to be able to get to the good stuff, when talking about a hobby that involves consuming products (as opposed to hobbies that involve developing skills or building projects etc). Where am I going with this? I don't know, lets see how people respond to this thread-start and then let it go from there. I guess one question would be, has anyone come across a cigar that reliably stands on its own straight out of the B&M, or maybe 1-2 months in the humidor? A cigar that can tide you over while your "investment matures". Further, because its silly to throw large money at a new hobby until you know you are "in", another requirement would be "the cigar has to be cheap." I know, people are going to say "Any cigar can be a good cigar now". I guess I include in this thread an interest in hearing people talk about a cigar of particular note that appreciably stands up to the "less than a year old" test. Or, anything else related that you want to talk about. Cheers Cyanide

12-09-2008, 02:45 PM	#2
replicant_argent Gravy Boat Winnah. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Pete Location: my attorney has advised against giving this information to insane people Posts: 5,326 Trading: (22)	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? Buy 'em aged... __________________ www.stogietorch.com Some days call for a stiff Pomade.

12-09-2008, 02:53 PM	#3
ucla695 Neither here, nor there Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Pool Posts: 3,696 Trading: (5)	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? Interesting thread. I think cigars are like wine and there’s definitely a learning curve associated with each. Tastes evolve and the young, unbalanced stuff you started out with is replaced by nicely aged stock. One of the ways to gain an appreciation for the good stuff is to have the not-so-good stuff and evolve. Patience is the name of the game. So is buying more than you can consume. If done over an extended period of time, you’ll have some nicely aged cigars. But that doesn’t really help you now. I’d keep an eye open for sales and trades of cigars in the ‘Cigars in Motion’ sub forums. Who knows. You might be able to pick up some with a little age. As far as what smokes good out of the box, I suggest trying some Padrons. The Anniversary lines are great. Arturo Fuente Don Carlos cigars are also great from the get-go.

12-09-2008, 03:08 PM	#4
Lucky_Hippo A Cigar = 42 Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Gary Location: Kansas Posts: 494 Trading: (2)	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? Most NC's have already been aged before being rolled. Enjoy them straight out of the box all you like. ISOM's are of course a different breed, but if your looking at NC's, the aging and tending thing is more part of the hobby then the actual development of the sticks. Master blenders who have grown up in the field and have smoked more sticks than you or I could in a lifetime have designed a certain profile they wish to share with us. Believe me, It's perfectly acceptable to smoke "fresh" NC sticks to your harts content. It's how the blenders would want you to. Nothing against aged sticks or the practice of aging sticks. I know a lot of BOTL's live by the aged stick alone it's just not everyone's cup of tea. Flame on __________________ Who wants an orange whip? Orange whip? Orange whip? Three orange whips. -J.Candy

12-09-2008, 03:17 PM	#5
acarr Have My Own Room Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,307 Trading: (34)	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? I guess one question would be, has anyone come across a cigar that reliably stands on its own straight out of the B&M, or maybe 1-2 months in the humidor? A cigar that can tide you over while your "investment matures". I would say any of the Oliva that I tried fit this category. Both inexpensive and tasty right out of the store. The Padron's are also very tasty right out of the store but they are not so inexpensive.

12-09-2008, 03:25 PM	#6
spincycle Guest Posts: n/a	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? I started by buying from other BOTLs. Many ppl who sell grab bags have lots of age on them already. Also it gave me a chance to try out different smokes!

12-09-2008, 07:04 PM	#8
Snake Hips Götterdämmerung Join Date: Nov 2008 First Name: Tyler Location: Directly above the center of the Earth Posts: 1,013 Trading: (10)	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? Non-Cubans don't really need any age. As mentioned, they're pre-aged. Cubans tend to need age, because they're rolled fresh. Many do stand up fresh though. H. Upmann Coronas Major and Magnum 50 are very good fresh as are the Partagas Serie D No. 4 and Bolivar Petite Coronas (well, any Bolivar will blow your head apart at any time of its life). The solution to the noob's entrance to Cubans is to buy them aged. I'm a Cuban noob with half a Vinotemp full of Cubans, but I own very few fresh cigars. I bought them aged and acquired them aged from the collections of other BOTLs. Most of my fresh Cuban cigars are ones that are good fresh anyway.

12-10-2008, 12:02 AM	#9
spectrrr Back in the midwest! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Frank Location: Ohio Posts: 5,596 Trading: (20)	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? I am a relative noob. But the one thing I have learned is that over time, lots of time, tastes evolve as much as a cigar. they become more refined, less tolerant of crap, AND able to discern subtle nuances of a stick that would be hidden from a less experienced smoker. I went back and revisited some of the sticks that I got started on and couldn't even stand smoking them. I have learned to discern the crap, and moved up in the world. But I can't say that I've learned to fully appreciate the subtle nuances of some cigars. sure, i'll enjoy the cigar, but I'm still a little green. So although I have a few very nice sticks in my humidor... I'm still waiting a little longer for my palate to catch up with the level that I know those sticks will smoke at. so whats that got to do with aging sticks? simple. start collecting the good stuff now. put it away for a bit, you don't need to start off your smoking career on the high end stuff, it is in my (very inexperienced) opinion, a waste of a good stick. Why smoke a $15 stick and enjoy it when you could have gotten the same enjoyment from a $10 stick? put the $15 ones away for aging, and wait for your tastes to mature. by that point, maybe a lot of those $5 sticks will be tasting rather boring and flat. GREAT. move on up a level to the sticks you've been aging. now you have nice aged stock AND the palate to fully appreciate them. __________________ ¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨ "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right..." -Thomas Paine

12-10-2008, 01:15 AM	#10
bobarian Cranky Habanophile Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Wine Country Posts: 8,869 Trading: (51)	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? As the others have said, most NC's are good with just a bit of rest. They are made with aged tobacco and many are aged in warehouses for a longer periods to help flavors develop. Cubans are a different animal all together. Once they are rolled and go through their first fermentation, many are good to go. 06 and 07 Siglo II's were great fresh. Many others are also very good fresh, RASS, RASCC, Party Shorts, Party Short Churchill's, Hoyo Short Robusto's were all very good fresh. But almost all CC's will get even better with age. It is not that difficult to find aged CC's, even your B&M may have smokes with a few years age, just ask. As you collection grows, you will have a good assortment of reasonably aged smokes to consume. At the same time if you keep building your stock of fresh boxes to age you will always have aged stock to smoke. 20yr old smokes? Only had a handful, But this is a hobby to enjoy, dont stress that you dont have any 70's Monte's in your regular rotation.

12-10-2008, 08:45 AM	#12
macpappy Rider on the storm. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Slidell, LA Posts: 851 Trading: (0)	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? I have a single B&M that I shop at regularly and I would not hesitate to smoke anything purchase right out of the box. But then this particular B&M not only keeps his walk-in Humidor properly maintained but he rarely puts anything on the shelf until they have sat in his humidified storeroom for a month or two. I have both a 50 cigar humidor maintained at 65% and a large cooler also kept at 65%. The humidor are my ready to smoke cigars. The cooler is where I keep all my new purchases and about once a month I'll refill my humidor as needed and add to my humidor. This has allowed me to smoke different cigars at different "resting points" to discover how much time my cigars have to rest to reach MY OPTIMAL taste point. __________________ WARNING: I am a Southern White Male. I have a brain and I know how to use it.

12-10-2008, 09:47 AM	#13
htown Feeling at Home Join Date: Dec 2008 First Name: Mike Location: Sugar Land Posts: 877 Trading: (29)	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? I would say that I have never smoked a bad Fuente Short Story

12-10-2008, 12:50 PM	#17
Cigary Guest Posts: n/a	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? I say smoke em if you got em. Aging is good for some cigars and they do smoke better with age on them but that shouldn't stop you from having a few out of the box and then let the rest age. I buy boxes, 5 paks and smoke a few of them right when I get them and they are great. The more you buy the more you can let some rest while you take a few out and smoke em.

12-10-2008, 01:56 PM	#18
Cyanide Guest Posts: n/a	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? This is great discussion. While it is always good to age them, it is also good to the soul to have one now (at least those with low tolerance for delayed gratification). I think I am going to adapt a new buying policy. One cigar now, 3 cigars later, 1 box for the special. Cigar one = trial of my liking. 3 cigars later = bought to age them once I know I like them (2 to share, 1 to burn). Boxes will come as favourites develop. Wow, is there anything that I am not able to develop a protocol or standard procedure for. It seems as if I live from list of check-boxes. Cheers Cyanide

12-10-2008, 02:10 PM	#19
spincycle Guest Posts: n/a	Re: So, newbies and good smokes don't go together? ^^ That's why you're a military man!