The Official 2012 NFL Draft Talk Thread

[JenksAnejo]

Funny, but I think the key to the entire 2012 NFL draft is Matt Kalil.

I think he is a very big key! I've been saying if the Rams don't trade out of the #2 spot they should definitely draft Kalil. This would allow them to move Roger Saffold over to RT and slide Jaison Smith inside to LG. This improves 3 positions on their OL using one pick; however, I think Washington is going to end up throwing the boat for the #2 overall. I've heard a few scenario's where they are going to give up 1st, 2nd and 3rd picks in this draft as well as 1st and 2nd's next year. That's a deal that you can't pass up!

I haven't played fantasy baseball in a few years but it seems like it will be fun doing it for smokes!

[shilala]

I agree about Kalil, Stephen. QB's are a 50/50 shot. I don't care how good Luck or RG3 are, either can wash out. Of Luck and RG3, I think Robert has the best chance to succeed. He will bust his ass till he dies, he's coachable, and if he fails, it won't be for the lack of giving it everything he has.
Kalil is plug and play, very likely a pro-bowler next year, and barring injury should crank out 10 good, solid pro-bowl seasons.
He could easily go number one in the draft were it not for Indy's dire need of a qb. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he goes second, shocking the entire world. Depends where the Rams send their pick. Minnesota would be in big trouble at that point, but I think they'd pass on RG3, and he may end up in Cleveland, although I still think Cleveland sticlks with McCoy. If RG3 falls in their lap at 4, I could see that changing everything. I know it'd change my mind, even if I'd decided to stick with McCoy. You don't look that gift-horse in the mouth. (Although Minnesota would because they're retarded.)

[shilala]

Originally Posted by JenksAnejo

I think he is a very big key! I've been saying if the Rams don't trade out of the #2 spot they should definitely draft Kalil. This would allow them to move Roger Saffold over to RT and slide Jaison Smith inside to LG. This improves 3 positions on their OL using one pick; however, I think Washington is going to end up throwing the boat for the #2 overall. I've heard a few scenario's where they are going to give up 1st, 2nd and 3rd picks in this draft as well as 1st and 2nd's next year. That's a deal that you can't pass up!

I haven't played fantasy baseball in a few years but it seems like it will be fun doing it for smokes!

The Rams have said they want a marquis WR to show Bradford off. Someone for people to come out and see. If they trade their pick to the Steelers for Wallace (who they're supposed to be keeping), the Steelers would bring Kalil on, I'd think.
Oh, to have RG3 on the bench behind Ben. That'd be sweet. I can dream for a minute, right?

[Stephen]

Yeah, I think it all boils down to how much the Rams love Kalil, and weighing that against whatever offers come their way for a team to draft RGIII. If the Rams do trade out, Kalil for sure goes to the Vikings. Either way, the Vikings are in a pretty good spot (they either get Kalil or get a bounty of picks to move down so a team can draft RGIII). I bet the Browns are loving the fact that they beat the Dolphins 17-16 and the Seahawks 6-3 right about now...

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by shilala

The Rams have said they want a marquis WR to show Bradford off. Someone for people to come out and see. If they trade their pick to the Steelers for Wallace (who they're supposed to be keeping), the Steelers would bring Kalil on, I'd think.
Oh, to have RG3 on the bench behind Ben. That'd be sweet. I can dream for a minute, right?

Randy Moss to the Rams.

[shilala]

OOOOooooo, Randy Moss. Maybe they can bust out TO, too.
I'm not sure who the Rams are courting, but that's their plan. I don't think they're thinking a wr from the draft, they need asses in seats and think they're good enough to win with a good wide receiver.
Regardless, if they still suck, they're likely to make some noise or at least put up some big plays.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Yeah, I think it all boils down to how much the Rams love Kalil, and weighing that against whatever offers come their way for a team to draft RGIII. If the Rams do trade out, Kalil for sure goes to the Vikings. Either way, the Vikings are in a pretty good spot (they either get Kalil or get a bounty of picks to move down so a team can draft RGIII). I bet the Browns are loving the fact that they beat the Dolphins 17-16 and the Seahawks 6-3 right about now...

Agreed. No matter what they'll get some of their bigger holes filled. It's tough to feel that LT is as dire of a need as others do, since the holes that they have other places are the size of the Grand Canyon. BUT...I really think that Ponder is going to be a solid QB, one who they have been searching for (in a young QB, not someone ready to be put out to pasture), so Drafting RG3 is not where they would go, IMO. Now if by some act of Dog, Luck falls to them, I would take him and trade Ponder (or keep Ponder as the backup and move Webb to WR). I just haven't watched enough of RG3 to be that high on him (remember that Geno Toretta even won a Heisman, so that award doesn't mean a lot, IMO). And if the best thing to do is to add a potentially elite LT to keep his jersey clean, then they need to do it. As I said before, if that's the case, they definitely need to be a player in the FA scene, as far as WR and DB go. Wallace in Purple? I think he'd make a nice compliment to Harvin. Harvin is a great slot receiver, but having him outside is a waste of his talents, IMO. He's tough over the middle, and will take the punishment. Plus running out of the slot, he's a threat for a handoff when he's in motion. Rudolph (TE) has shown some promise. He seems to have massive hands, and I saw him make several great catches last year. So getting someone on the outside seems to be a spot they really need to address somehow this offseason.

[shilala]

I just saw that the Steelers will NOT franchise Wallace. They can't. They're 2.75 million under the cap right now and the franchise tag would cost them 9.5 million.
It appears we'll be getting someone's #1 draft pick.
Does anyone else smell Wallace for the Ram's #2?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by shilala

I just saw that the Steelers will NOT franchise Wallace. They can't. They're 2.75 million under the cap right now and the franchise tag would cost them 9.5 million.
It appears we'll be getting someone's #1 draft pick.
Does anyone else smell Wallace for the Ram's #2?

I saw on ESPN where they were reporting that the Steelers were just going to put a first round tender on him instead of the franchise tag(2.7 million vs. 9.4 million). Honestly, I don't see a team giving him a big contract AND giving up a first round pick, not with the crop of free agent wide receivers that are going to be available. Certainly is possible, though.

[shilala]

I'm a bit lost on a "first round tender".
I understand that the reason his restricted free agency demands a first round pick is because he went in the first round.
I know franchise amounts are set by the CBA, as are tenders.
I just fail to see what the point is in the Steelers offering him a one-year 2.7 million deal? Any other team can beat that by a buck and give up a first round draft pick, right?
Or do the Steelers then have the opportunity to beat that offer, repeating ad nauseum?
Or does the dealing stop as soon as the Steelers beat any and all offers made for Wallace?
I'd think it'd be a better move to NOT offer him a deal, see if others come up with a number, then beat it, since they only have 2.75 million to play with anyways. The hope being that the highest offer for Wallace would be maybe 1.5 million.
I'll leave it at that because I really want to understand the tender offer and I have never been able to get my head around it.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I saw on ESPN where they were reporting that the Steelers were just going to put a first round tender on him instead of the franchise tag(2.7 million vs. 9.4 million). Honestly, I don't see a team giving him a big contract AND giving up a first round pick, not with the crop of free agent wide receivers that are going to be available. Certainly is possible, though.

If someone can tie him up for a 5 year/30 million deal (or something ridiculous) based on the strength of their bargaining position because of that flush pool of wide receivers, it'd totally be worth a draft pick when you're trading it for an established, excellent receiver.
Didn't Jimmy Johnson come up with some sort of draft value scheme that everyone uses, as in what a draft pick's value is dollar-wise?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by shilala

I'm a bit lost on a "first round tender".
I understand that the reason his restricted free agency demands a first round pick is because he went in the first round.
I know franchise amounts are set by the CBA, as are tenders.
I just fail to see what the point is in the Steelers offering him a one-year 2.7 million deal? Any other team can beat that by a buck and give up a first round draft pick, right?
Or do the Steelers then have the opportunity to beat that offer, repeating ad nauseum?
Or does the dealing stop as soon as the Steelers beat any and all offers made for Wallace?
I'd think it'd be a better move to NOT offer him a deal, see if others come up with a number, then beat it, since they only have 2.75 million to play with anyways. The hope being that the highest offer for Wallace would be maybe 1.5 million.
I'll leave it at that because I really want to understand the tender offer and I have never been able to get my head around it.

A first round tender has nothing to do with where he was drafted (he was drafted in the 3rd round BTW) but what kind of protection the franchise puts on his rights (there are varying levels of tenders a franchise can use). So in this case, they put a first round tender on him (this year being 2.7 million) and Wallace is free to seek out a deal with any other team. So, let's say the Rams offer and Wallace agrees to a 5/30 deal. The Steelers then get the right to match that offer. If they choose not to, the Rams sign Wallace to the already agreed upon contract and the Steelers get the Rams 1st round pick as compensation. Make sense?

[Stephen]

So Peyton Manning has a $28 million roster bonus due next week. There's no way that Irsay pays that, right?

[shilala]

Aaron Smith and Hines Ward got chopped yesterday. That leaves 4 million in cap money for Ward, no idea if Aaron was still under contract.
Ward agreed to play for league minimum and the Steelers still wouldn't have him back. They'll suffer for that. No one on that wide receiver core can block, cheat, or take a hit like Hines.
I'd have much rather seen Wallace go and Ward stay. Bastids. I'm about one inch from becoming a Tampa Bay fan.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

A first round tender has nothing to do with where he was drafted (he was drafted in the 3rd round BTW) but what kind of protection the franchise puts on his rights (there are varying levels of tenders a franchise can use). So in this case, they put a first round tender on him (this year being 2.7 million) and Wallace is free to seek out a deal with any other team. So, let's say the Rams offer and Wallace agrees to a 5/30 deal. The Steelers then get the right to match that offer. If they choose not to, the Rams sign Wallace to the already agreed upon contract and the Steelers get the Rams 1st round pick as compensation. Make sense?

Yup, perfect sense.
But now it begs the question as to why, as a restricted free agent, Ward commands a first round pick if someone picks him up?
Or am I just mixing up the tender offer with restricted free agent rules?

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

So Peyton Manning has a $28 million roster bonus due next week. There's no way that Irsay pays that, right?

I can't see it.
I can't see Peyton playing next year, either, in common-sense land. Equally, I'm also afraid he's too much of a gamer a la Farve and he'll play until he gets knocked right out of his shoes.
After the talk here and reading up a bit, I can't see Peyton passing a physical and being picked up. I think he's too hurt to catch on with a team right now. If he's released, and I have to think he will be, he may get picked up right around camp time.
In a perfect world, I'd like to see him stay in Indy in some sort of coaching capacity. I think him and Irsay are on the same page and truly love each other and are good friends. If that can work, I think it happens.
Last year Peyton rewrote his contract to protect the club from his failing health. He didn't want the organization to pay him for what they didn't get. The fact that Irsay wrote the last $8 million check is testament to what those two have going. I think they both knew, in the back of their heads, that was severance pay.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by shilala

Yup, perfect sense.
But now it begs the question as to why, as a restricted free agent, Ward commands a first round pick if someone picks him up?
Or am I just mixing up the tender offer with restricted free agent rules?

Hines Ward was under contract and the Steelers released him. Mike Wallace is a RFA, which means that although Wallace can shop around, the Steelers still own his rights. It's been awhile, but I believe this (RFA) applies to every player after they've completed three years of service that wasn't drafted in the first round. By all means, if this is incorrect, someone come straighten us out.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by shilala

I can't see it.
I can't see Peyton playing next year, either, in common-sense land. Equally, I'm also afraid he's too much of a gamer a la Farve and he'll play until he gets knocked right out of his shoes.
After the talk here and reading up a bit, I can't see Peyton passing a physical and being picked up. I think he's too hurt to catch on with a team right now. If he's released, and I have to think he will be, he may get picked up right around camp time.
In a perfect world, I'd like to see him stay in Indy in some sort of coaching capacity. I think him and Irsay are on the same page and truly love each other and are good friends. If that can work, I think it happens.
Last year Peyton rewrote his contract to protect the club from his failing health. He didn't want the organization to pay him for what they didn't get. The fact that Irsay wrote the last $8 million check is testament to what those two have going. I think they both knew, in the back of their heads, that was severance pay.

Yeah, to me it said a lot that the club paid him all his monies AND didn't put him on the IR. That was a gracious move on their part that got buried in the news behind what kind of toilet paper Tebow uses to wipe his arse with.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Hines Ward was under contract and the Steelers released him. Mike Wallace is a RFA, which means that although Wallace can shop around, the Steelers still own his rights. It's been awhile, but I believe this (RFA) applies to every player after they've completed three years of service that wasn't drafted in the first round. By all means, if this is incorrect, someone come straighten us out.

I meant Wallace, duh.
The snot medicine has taken me to outer space.
I read the restricted free agent rules the other day, if I'd have thought for one minute before typing, I'd have already known the answer.
I actually pulled the rules up because the guys on the radio show I was listening to didn't know the answer, either.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Yeah, to me it said a lot that the club paid him all his monies AND didn't put him on the IR. That was a gracious move on their part that got buried in the news behind what kind of toilet paper Tebow uses to wipe his arse with.

Right. If they put him on the PUP, they don't have to pay him the 8 million. That speaks volumes. It's why I don't really imagine any friction or hidden agenda between Irsay and Manning.
The only thing I can see between the two is Irsay saying "Peyton, you're done. For the love of all that is Holy, please stop before you have no body left to enjoy your millions."
And Peyton is saying "I gotta play. My kid brother has two rings, I have one. I need at least two to get to the HOF, etc..."
Isn't it nuts that Eli has two rings to Peyton's one? I mean, really? No one on earth even puts Eli close to Peyton so far as QB talent goes. I think it's because Eli is coachable while Peyton isn't, so much. Peyton puts the whole team on his shoulders and carries that weight around. Eli just plays ball. He's okay with sucking. Peyton is not.
They sure are two different players. That extra ring really puts Eli on an even keel with Peyton at the family dinner table, for sure.