Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs?

CigarSquid · 08-30-2011, 08:10 AM

Anyone ever buy these 'styles' from online retailers like CI, Thompson, etc.?

I have always wondered how they are. If anyone here can actually compare them to the real ones or if they are decent as a everyday stick.. Stick to not put much thought into, Just grab and smoke.

The prices seem decent, but do you get what you pay for?

WittyUserName · 08-30-2011, 08:13 AM

I have never tried them, look forward to hearing what the Vets have to say though.

08-30-2011, 08:22 AM

I suggest not getting anything from Thompson's. They'll call you regularily for years, and there have been incidents of credit card fraud (do a search of these forums before you buy from them). Another thing to remember, if you buy seconds from C.I., Cigar.com of whereever, there is a chance these sticks have not been through a freeze or fumigation, so there is a higher chance of beetles. Watch how you store them!

Blak Smyth · 08-30-2011, 08:22 AM

I am a subcriber to the "if it seems to good to be true..." theory.
I too am now interested in some veteran opinions!

CigarSquid · 08-30-2011, 08:30 AM

Enough said. Thanks for the advice. I have heard things about thompson but my uncle has been buying from them for a while no complaints. I turned him on to ci.com.

irratebass · 08-30-2011, 08:39 AM

Garry, a few weeks ago I went to a B&M and they had these...I picked one up on a whim and I really enjoyed it...now like Shane said I would be cautious about how you stored them and I would def freeze them if you bought a bundle, but I have been told that they make for great fillers for your humi and they are only like $20 a bundle.

CigarSquid · 08-30-2011, 08:43 AM

That's what I was thinking. I have browsed the freezing thread... Had no clue about it. I smoke, sometimes on my way to work and hand some out to buddies, but I don't want to hand out my premium sticks all the time.

So I thought, if these are decent I can pick them up. I was also looking st the 2-fer packs they offer.

irratebass · 08-30-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garryyjr

That's what I was thinking. I have browsed the freezing thread... Had no clue about it. I smoke, sometimes on my way to work and hand some out to buddies, but I don't want to hand out my premium sticks all the time.

So I thought, if these are decent I can pick them up. I was also looking st the 2-fer packs they offer.

I don't know how to freeze either and it looks like its pretty much for the sick folk.

alfredo_buscatti · 08-30-2011, 08:55 AM

I've bought both the "Vengeance", which Rocky Patel had a hand in, somewhere, the documentation doesn't say, $69.00 a box, and the Rocky Patel Mulligan from Holt. Holt is the only one who has them as they bought all ~150,000 rolled cigars en masse. The Mulligan is a fine cigar, $45.00 per bundle; I've yet to get into the Vengeance.

Subvet642 · 08-30-2011, 09:04 AM

I've gotten bundles of JR's Alternatives, and while they don't taste anything like the sticks they're supposed to imitate, they aren't bad for the price. In other words; decent yard 'gars.

Bill86 · 08-30-2011, 01:14 PM

I agree about Thompson, I never even signed up or ordered and they send me a catalog every few months.....

Some other vendor must have sold me out

I would snag some Diesel Unholy Cocktails or AF Short Storys for your friends. Should run you maybe 3-4 bucks a piece. Doesn't break the bank and you're giving out good cigars.

taltos · 08-30-2011, 01:14 PM

The Perdomo2 Mistakes are a Torpedo in a couple of wrappers sold as a bundle smoke in the price range of $60 for a bundle of 25. They are the original formulation of the Perdomo LE at a good price. I highly recommend them, sometimes mistakes are not bad.

shilala · 08-30-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subvet642

I've gotten bundles of JR's Alternatives, and while they don't taste anything like the sticks they're supposed to imitate, they aren't bad for the price. In other words; decent yard 'gars.

CigarSquid · 08-30-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subvet642

I've gotten bundles of JR's Alternatives, and while they don't taste anything like the sticks they're supposed to imitate, they aren't bad for the price. In other words; decent yard 'gars.

Kinda what I am looking for.

CigarSquid · 08-30-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill86

I would snag some Diesel Unholy Cocktails or AF Short Storys for your friends. Should run you maybe 3-4 bucks a piece. Doesn't break the bank and you're giving out good cigars.

These buddies know no difference. They are not cigar smokers... They are cigarette smokers. Just from time to time, I will give them one when we are drinking and BS'ing.

shilala · 08-30-2011, 03:19 PM

Get the Padron ALT's. They're not bad, even though they don't taste like Padrons.
Better yet, for a decent cigar at a nice price, get some Tampa Sweethearts. They're premium tobacco rolled by apprentices. At a time they used the same blend as the Hemingway line. Good thing about these is that you can smoke them too.

The Poet · 08-30-2011, 03:38 PM

Your question, like its title, is really three-part:

Mistakes = Sometimes these mistakes are the exact same cigar as their premium cousin, except that (for instance) the wrapper may have some blemishes or flaws which prevent them from being sold as firsts. The Consuegras used to be this, though it's questionable if they still are. Regardless, they can taste and burn the same as the high-price spread.

Counterfeits = This is harder, as there are counterfeits and counterfeits. A counterfeit CC can be great, or can be garbage. A counterfeit NC may not even exist, at least in the USA, for what is the point? But there are "counterfeit by name" smokes which are quite decent. Again, e.g., Lew Rothman came out with his Genuine Counterfeit Cubans some years back, both as a marketing tool and as a joke about all the "truly fake" CCs available . . . he guaranteed that these were fake Cubans. They aren't CCs, but they aren't bad either.

Knock-offs = As others have stated, these can be decent yard 'gars at worst, and acceptable everyday smokes for those on a budget. The JR Alts fall within this range. Keep in mind that, ever since the end of the Cigar Boom, makers have had more capacity than the market requires, so by producing these lower-priced smokes they can at least keep the farmers planting and the rollers working. And even if they are not the best thing available, they are handrolled cigars which are superior to all machine-made and homogonous garbage that are priced not much lower than these knock-offs.

What should you do? Try some, then let US know what YOU think.

wayner123 · 08-31-2011, 08:35 AM

The Poet points out some great observations with his post. So I will not cover that again.

However, if you are talking about what is commonly referred to as "seconds" then I can help. For a good number of years I smoked mostly seconds. There are some really bad ones out there, but more often than not you get a great cigar at a fraction of the name brand price.

Below is a link to great online retailer for the seconds market. You can find pretty much every maker on that list.

http://www.lynncigars.com/subpage4ne...l#newbrandlist

Tampa Sweethearts and the brands which only cigarsinternational sell (such as man o war seconds, etc) are not on the list, but can be found elsewhere on the interwebs.

CigarSquid · 08-31-2011, 08:53 AM

The Poet, Great, Thanks! Soon as I get my coolidor up and going..( i need to find one this weekend) I will prolly get some of those, KO, Counterfeit or mistakes.

I will post back in here once i have tried them and let you know what i think.

My question was asking if anyone had tried them, Some of the vets on here. As I am still new and can't compare them to the real deals.

I guess I will be on the quest for the real ones, 5 paks or so to compare with.

Zanaspus · 08-31-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shilala

Get the Padron ALT's. They're not bad, even though they don't taste like Padrons.
Better yet, for a decent cigar at a nice price, get some Tampa Sweethearts. They're premium tobacco rolled by apprentices. At a time they used the same blend as the Hemingway line. Good thing about these is that you can smoke them too.

Not to hijack, but I've seen lots of lovers of Tampa Sweethearts. Can I get some vitola recommendations?

08-30-2011, 08:10 AM	#1
CigarSquid AKA Garryyjr Join Date: Apr 2011 First Name: Garry Location: Medford, OR - Cigar Zombie Posts: 3,213 Trading: (39)	Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? Anyone ever buy these 'styles' from online retailers like CI, Thompson, etc.? I have always wondered how they are. If anyone here can actually compare them to the real ones or if they are decent as a everyday stick.. Stick to not put much thought into, Just grab and smoke. The prices seem decent, but do you get what you pay for?

08-30-2011, 08:13 AM	#2
WittyUserName WOOOHOOO Join Date: Aug 2011 First Name: Adam Location: Virginia Posts: 1,455 Trading: (15)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? I have never tried them, look forward to hearing what the Vets have to say though.

08-30-2011, 08:22 AM	#3
Hippiebrian Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? I suggest not getting anything from Thompson's. They'll call you regularily for years, and there have been incidents of credit card fraud (do a search of these forums before you buy from them). Another thing to remember, if you buy seconds from C.I., Cigar.com of whereever, there is a chance these sticks have not been through a freeze or fumigation, so there is a higher chance of beetles. Watch how you store them!

08-30-2011, 08:22 AM	#4
Blak Smyth Think Blue! Join Date: Jun 2011 First Name: SD Location: THE WOOD Posts: 8,486 Trading: (52)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? I am a subcriber to the "if it seems to good to be true..." theory. I too am now interested in some veteran opinions! __________________ SUPPORT OUR TROOPS

08-30-2011, 08:30 AM	#5
CigarSquid AKA Garryyjr Join Date: Apr 2011 First Name: Garry Location: Medford, OR - Cigar Zombie Posts: 3,213 Trading: (39)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? Enough said. Thanks for the advice. I have heard things about thompson but my uncle has been buying from them for a while no complaints. I turned him on to ci.com.

08-30-2011, 08:39 AM	#6
irratebass EMPEROR TOMPKINS Join Date: Aug 2011 First Name: Mickey Location: Mooresville, Indiana Posts: 8,313 Trading: (48)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? Garry, a few weeks ago I went to a B&M and they had these...I picked one up on a whim and I really enjoyed it...now like Shane said I would be cautious about how you stored them and I would def freeze them if you bought a bundle, but I have been told that they make for great fillers for your humi and they are only like $20 a bundle. __________________

08-30-2011, 08:43 AM	#7
CigarSquid AKA Garryyjr Join Date: Apr 2011 First Name: Garry Location: Medford, OR - Cigar Zombie Posts: 3,213 Trading: (39)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? That's what I was thinking. I have browsed the freezing thread... Had no clue about it. I smoke, sometimes on my way to work and hand some out to buddies, but I don't want to hand out my premium sticks all the time. So I thought, if these are decent I can pick them up. I was also looking st the 2-fer packs they offer.

08-30-2011, 08:55 AM	#9
alfredo_buscatti Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Jan 2011 First Name: Mike Location: Piedmont, NC Posts: 277 Trading: (9)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? I've bought both the "Vengeance", which Rocky Patel had a hand in, somewhere, the documentation doesn't say, $69.00 a box, and the Rocky Patel Mulligan from Holt. Holt is the only one who has them as they bought all ~150,000 rolled cigars en masse. The Mulligan is a fine cigar, $45.00 per bundle; I've yet to get into the Vengeance.

08-30-2011, 09:04 AM	#10
Subvet642 Bilge Rat Join Date: Nov 2009 First Name: Darren Location: Torpedo Room Bilge Posts: 2,997 Trading: (13)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? I've gotten bundles of JR's Alternatives, and while they don't taste anything like the sticks they're supposed to imitate, they aren't bad for the price. In other words; decent yard 'gars. __________________ *"Man's mind is his basic tool of survival. Life is given to him, survival is not." -John Galt*

08-30-2011, 01:14 PM	#11
Bill86 Snob Join Date: Jul 2010 First Name: Bill Posts: 6,704 Trading: (67)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? I agree about Thompson, I never even signed up or ordered and they send me a catalog every few months..... Some other vendor must have sold me out I would snag some Diesel Unholy Cocktails or AF Short Storys for your friends. Should run you maybe 3-4 bucks a piece. Doesn't break the bank and you're giving out good cigars. __________________ I'm drunk......but I'll get drunker! - Doug Stanhope

08-30-2011, 01:14 PM	#12
taltos Really, really old Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Paul Location: Saugus, MA Posts: 2,486 Trading: (3)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? The Perdomo2 Mistakes are a Torpedo in a couple of wrappers sold as a bundle smoke in the price range of $60 for a bundle of 25. They are the original formulation of the Perdomo LE at a good price. I highly recommend them, sometimes mistakes are not bad. __________________ Jimmy, some of its magic, some of its tragic, but I had a good life all the way. He Went to Paris, J. Buffett

08-30-2011, 03:19 PM	#16
shilala Dear Lord, Thank You. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Scott Posts: 13,721 Trading: (252)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? Get the Padron ALT's. They're not bad, even though they don't taste like Padrons. Better yet, for a decent cigar at a nice price, get some Tampa Sweethearts. They're premium tobacco rolled by apprentices. At a time they used the same blend as the Hemingway line. Good thing about these is that you can smoke them too. __________________

08-30-2011, 03:38 PM	#17
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? Your question, like its title, is really three-part: Mistakes = Sometimes these mistakes are the exact same cigar as their premium cousin, except that (for instance) the wrapper may have some blemishes or flaws which prevent them from being sold as firsts. The Consuegras used to be this, though it's questionable if they still are. Regardless, they can taste and burn the same as the high-price spread. Counterfeits = This is harder, as there are counterfeits and counterfeits. A counterfeit CC can be great, or can be garbage. A counterfeit NC may not even exist, at least in the USA, for what is the point? But there are "counterfeit by name" smokes which are quite decent. Again, e.g., Lew Rothman came out with his Genuine Counterfeit Cubans some years back, both as a marketing tool and as a joke about all the "truly fake" CCs available . . . he guaranteed that these were fake Cubans. They aren't CCs, but they aren't bad either. Knock-offs = As others have stated, these can be decent yard 'gars at worst, and acceptable everyday smokes for those on a budget. The JR Alts fall within this range. Keep in mind that, ever since the end of the Cigar Boom, makers have had more capacity than the market requires, so by producing these lower-priced smokes they can at least keep the farmers planting and the rollers working. And even if they are not the best thing available, they are handrolled cigars which are superior to all machine-made and homogonous garbage that are priced not much lower than these knock-offs. What should you do? Try some, then let US know what YOU think. __________________ Ninety percent of everything is crap - Theodore Sturgeon.

08-31-2011, 08:35 AM	#18
wayner123 Country Gentleman Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Deltona, FL Posts: 2,351 Trading: (159)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? The Poet points out some great observations with his post. So I will not cover that again. However, if you are talking about what is commonly referred to as "seconds" then I can help. For a good number of years I smoked mostly seconds. There are some really bad ones out there, but more often than not you get a great cigar at a fraction of the name brand price. Below is a link to great online retailer for the seconds market. You can find pretty much every maker on that list. http://www.lynncigars.com/subpage4ne...l#newbrandlist Tampa Sweethearts and the brands which only cigarsinternational sell (such as man o war seconds, etc) are not on the list, but can be found elsewhere on the interwebs. __________________ 'It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife; But every fool will be quarrelling.'

08-31-2011, 08:53 AM	#19
CigarSquid AKA Garryyjr Join Date: Apr 2011 First Name: Garry Location: Medford, OR - Cigar Zombie Posts: 3,213 Trading: (39)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? The Poet, Great, Thanks! Soon as I get my coolidor up and going..( i need to find one this weekend) I will prolly get some of those, KO, Counterfeit or mistakes. I will post back in here once i have tried them and let you know what i think. My question was asking if anyone had tried them, Some of the vets on here. As I am still new and can't compare them to the real deals. I guess I will be on the quest for the real ones, 5 paks or so to compare with.