GM vehicle? Not me.

03-29-2009, 04:58 PM

At least not for a while. Even though I really want a Corvette.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20625.html
Ford took no bailout money.

BigFrank · 03-29-2009, 07:22 PM

What a mess, too many at fault, no one taking the blame.

I still like GM trucks.

forgop · 03-29-2009, 07:30 PM

How did Wagoner stay almost 6 years as GM tanked?

omowasu · 03-29-2009, 07:38 PM

Ive been behind the wheel of GM trucks for a while, and I would not hesitate to purchase another. Yes, GM has its fair share of problems, some beyond the control of GM, but the amount of "bailout" (loan) money they have received is a pittance compared to the financial industry. I can understand the hesitation to buy a GM car nowadays, but I think that hesitation spreads to areas beyond GM.

Sometimes these articles drive me crazy - everyone in the media has something to say about how to fix the American car industry, how to fix GM, etc, even though they dont work in the car business and are speculating at best.

One of my favorite quotes from the article, referring to Waggoner, was "...He is considered responsible for increasing GM's focus on trucks and SUVs—at the expense of the hybrids and fuel efficient cars that have become more popular in the last couple of years."

What a ridiculous statement that is. GM made a TON of money on trucks and SUV's when they were popular. Small cars are generally considered loss leaders for many companies, and most consumers would rather have something with a bit of power and space.

Unfortunately (Politico take note), the problem is not that people (or as they call them, "consumers") are only buying small cars and hybrids - it is that people are NOT BUYING ANY new cars at all. Even Toyota is hurting in the most recent downturn...

stitch · 03-29-2009, 07:51 PM

Those of us who must, or need to drive trucks will soon find ourselves walking and probably taxed for that also.

03-29-2009, 08:04 PM

GM has more cars that get over 30 MPG, and more Hybrids than Toyota or Honda. What a crock. I love my new Corvette FWIW
Mike

03-29-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitmaster

GM has more cars that get over 30 MPG, and more Hybrids than Toyota or Honda. What a crock. I love my new Corvette FWIW
Mike

THANK YOU!! jeez, why does no one realize this?

WildBlueSooner · 03-29-2009, 08:22 PM

Yeah, except they have run their business like **** for the last 10 years!

03-29-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBlueSooner

Yeah, except they have run their business like **** for the last 10 years!

Having a union who demands cost the company 1000 dollars per car for health care vrs the US Honda and toyota plants that have a cost of 94 dollars per car... ya that didnt help.

all the car companies are in trouble. its not just GM. Ford Morgaged all thier plants, if they go CH.11, they run the risk of losing thier plants.

Chrysler...well thats a whole nother bag o chips

WildBlueSooner · 03-29-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darb85

Having a union who demands cost the company 1000 dollars per car for health care vrs the US Honda and toyota plants that have a cost of 94 dollars per car... ya that didnt help.

all the car companies are in trouble. its not just GM. Ford Morgaged all thier plants, if they go CH.11, they run the risk of losing thier plants.

Chrysler...well thats a whole nother bag o chips

I agree with everything you said...just saying, the fact that they make decent products is not enough. Many companies with solid products have gone under for a multitude of reasons.

03-29-2009, 08:41 PM

I just think the bailout money is not going to get GM out of trouble. I think they may have to break the company up. Maybe Corvette will become it's own company. GM has taken more bailout money than the company is even worth. How will they ever pay it back? I won't knowingly do business with any company that has received bailout.

03-29-2009, 08:43 PM

and yelling at GM for selling trucks and SUVs is ludacris!

Toyota, Honda, NIssan all redeveloped thier lines to include full size trucks and SUVS. its what the US wanted. Then in the last 2 years It crashed with rising gas prices.

And Now with gas back at 2 bucks a gallon, trucks are selling huge, Used car values are running through the roof, in fact a 1 year old car is more expensive than a brand new one! its nuts! Hell my car went UP on Kelley Blue Book in the last 6 months. Its a suburban!

Granted GM was slow in bringing out those uber fuel efficent cars but when they did they brought out the most respected cars out there!

Im not saying they are a model for business nesessarily, and a big part of that is the amount of power the union has and the lack of management to stem that power move.

And no offense to any auto workers but someone who works the line spinning the number 5 lug nut on a malibu should not be making 74 dollars an hour(including benefits)...

03-29-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

I just think the bailout money is not going to get GM out of trouble. I think they may have to break the company up. Maybe Corvette will become it's own company. GM has taken more bailout money than the company is even worth. How will they ever pay it back? I won't knowingly do business with any company that has received bailout.

You do realize that before GM could get any of that money they had to issue a plan to restructure thier company? and if they dont repay the loans, the government issues a levy and gets it, but after 20 years. Chrysler did it in the 80s

They are dropping lines, Pontiac is a specialty line just the G8, G6, Vibe, and Solstice.

Saturn is likely to either be sold or rebranded opel.

Saab is gone

The Management and Execs are all only making 1 dollar this year. They sold thier fleet of jets(something AIG has yet to do...) They are shutting down plants and consolidating.

03-29-2009, 09:04 PM

I'll wait to see how it turns out. I'm not knocking GM products. I really do want a Corvette. I like their trucks. I just trust a government run company less than a union run one. I lived through the '70s. I owned Chrysler stock up till Daimler bought it. That was one I sold at the right time. They have to sell at a profit cars that people want to buy a lot of. You have to be one step ahead of the market or else be creating the market. I don't see this happening now. Granted, nobody is selling a lot at this time. I am just not going to have anything to do with a government run auto manufacturing company. There is no history of that turning out good.

AAlmeter · 03-30-2009, 09:31 AM

Hmm...anyone asking Gettlefingerer to step down?

forgop · 03-30-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitmaster

GM has more cars that get over 30 MPG, and more Hybrids than Toyota or Honda. What a crock. I love my new Corvette FWIW
Mike

GM was simply the biggest because they had the most out there under Chevrolet, GMC, Buick, Pontiac, Saturn, Cadillac, Hummer, Saab, and Oldsmobile. How many freaking models in their lines that overlap one another? When consumers perceive your product to be a bad value, they won't buy from you. The Big Three are a shining example of how they like to live like fat cats when things are great, but they sure don't want to make sacrifices when times are bad.

rizzle · 03-30-2009, 10:06 AM

If you want a Vette, buy it. GM isn't going away, even if they go bankrupt. The govt. has already said they will back the warranty.

loki · 03-30-2009, 10:09 AM

Chevrolet, GMC (maybe even drop this...not sure), Pontiac, Saturn, Cadillac, Hummer (h1 only),

these are the lines I would keep if I was running the show. When was the last time you saw a buick made in the past 5 years on the road?

Texan in Mexico · 03-30-2009, 10:17 AM

Maybe not buy the Corvette but instead stick a third of that money into GM, Citi and some other "value" stocks?

forgop · 03-30-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAlmeter

Hmm...anyone asking Gettlefingerer to step down?

That's just it-he's just as responsible for the mess as Wagoner.

For all those in the union ranks that villify the compensation of salaried executives, they're turning a blind eye to what those in the union make. As if a $60k/year job turning some bolts is bad enough, union appointed positions are the shiznit into a bigger career of do-nothing job responsibility and accountability to no-one, often dished out in the good old boys network or family members. Then you take into consideration elected stewards/committemen/zone men/bargaining committee members, you've got a LOT of guys there making $200k+/year that give ZERO productivity paid for by GM/Chrysler/Ford.

Being an elected UAW rep is much like being in Congress-they're just a bunch of money grubbing whores and the only concern they have is for getting re-elected, not looking out in the best interest of their constituents.

03-29-2009, 04:58 PM	#1
BC-Axeman Guest Posts: n/a	GM vehicle? Not me. At least not for a while. Even though I really want a Corvette. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20625.html Ford took no bailout money.

03-29-2009, 07:22 PM	#2
BigFrank 5 3 1 Join Date: Nov 2008 First Name: Frank Location: Gym or Sofa. Posts: 1,896 Trading: (25)	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. What a mess, too many at fault, no one taking the blame. I still like GM trucks. __________________ " Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. "

03-29-2009, 07:30 PM	#3
forgop Not a puffer Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Duane Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 2,869 Trading: (40)	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. How did Wagoner stay almost 6 years as GM tanked?

03-29-2009, 07:38 PM	#4
omowasu Fell ROTT Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Scott II Location: Chicago Posts: 288 Trading: (3)	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. Ive been behind the wheel of GM trucks for a while, and I would not hesitate to purchase another. Yes, GM has its fair share of problems, some beyond the control of GM, but the amount of "bailout" (loan) money they have received is a pittance compared to the financial industry. I can understand the hesitation to buy a GM car nowadays, but I think that hesitation spreads to areas beyond GM. Sometimes these articles drive me crazy - everyone in the media has something to say about how to fix the American car industry, how to fix GM, etc, even though they dont work in the car business and are speculating at best. One of my favorite quotes from the article, referring to Waggoner, was "...He is considered responsible for increasing GM's focus on trucks and SUVs—at the expense of the hybrids and fuel efficient cars that have become more popular in the last couple of years." What a ridiculous statement that is. GM made a TON of money on trucks and SUV's when they were popular. Small cars are generally considered loss leaders for many companies, and most consumers would rather have something with a bit of power and space. Unfortunately (Politico take note), the problem is not that people (or as they call them, "consumers") are only buying small cars and hybrids - it is that people are NOT BUYING ANY new cars at all. Even Toyota is hurting in the most recent downturn... __________________ If I had something smart to say, I would definitely put it here.

03-29-2009, 07:51 PM	#5
stitch Saddle Maker And Cowboy Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Diamond K Ranch Posts: 720 Trading: (34)	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. Those of us who must, or need to drive trucks will soon find ourselves walking and probably taxed for that also. __________________ Cowboy Wisdom: Ifin' ya get to thinkin yourself a might bit important, Try tellin someone else's dog what to do.

03-29-2009, 08:04 PM	#6
Pitmaster Guest Posts: n/a	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. GM has more cars that get over 30 MPG, and more Hybrids than Toyota or Honda. What a crock. I love my new Corvette FWIW Mike

03-29-2009, 08:22 PM	#8
WildBlueSooner I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Feb 2009 First Name: James Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,322 Trading: (19)	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. Yeah, except they have run their business like **** for the last 10 years! __________________ "To dilute the will to win is to destroy the purpose of the game. There is no substitute for victory"-- Douglas MacArthur

03-29-2009, 08:41 PM	#11
BC-Axeman Guest Posts: n/a	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. I just think the bailout money is not going to get GM out of trouble. I think they may have to break the company up. Maybe Corvette will become it's own company. GM has taken more bailout money than the company is even worth. How will they ever pay it back? I won't knowingly do business with any company that has received bailout.

03-29-2009, 08:43 PM	#12
darb85 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. and yelling at GM for selling trucks and SUVs is ludacris! Toyota, Honda, NIssan all redeveloped thier lines to include full size trucks and SUVS. its what the US wanted. Then in the last 2 years It crashed with rising gas prices. And Now with gas back at 2 bucks a gallon, trucks are selling huge, Used car values are running through the roof, in fact a 1 year old car is more expensive than a brand new one! its nuts! Hell my car went UP on Kelley Blue Book in the last 6 months. Its a suburban! Granted GM was slow in bringing out those uber fuel efficent cars but when they did they brought out the most respected cars out there! Im not saying they are a model for business nesessarily, and a big part of that is the amount of power the union has and the lack of management to stem that power move. And no offense to any auto workers but someone who works the line spinning the number 5 lug nut on a malibu should *not* be making 74 dollars an hour(including benefits)...

03-29-2009, 09:04 PM	#14
BC-Axeman Guest Posts: n/a	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. I'll wait to see how it turns out. I'm not knocking GM products. I really do want a Corvette. I like their trucks. I just trust a government run company less than a union run one. I lived through the '70s. I owned Chrysler stock up till Daimler bought it. That was one I sold at the right time. They have to sell at a profit cars that people want to buy a lot of. You have to be one step ahead of the market or else be creating the market. I don't see this happening now. Granted, nobody is selling a lot at this time. I am just not going to have anything to do with a government run auto manufacturing company. There is no history of that turning out good.

03-30-2009, 09:31 AM	#15
AAlmeter F.U.B.O. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Adam Location: Buffalo Posts: 288 Trading: (0)	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. Hmm...anyone asking Gettlefingerer to step down?

03-30-2009, 10:06 AM	#17
rizzle Order Restored Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: st pete, fl Posts: 2,679 Trading: (23)	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. If you want a Vette, buy it. GM isn't going away, even if they go bankrupt. The govt. has already said they will back the warranty.

03-30-2009, 10:09 AM	#18
loki H.A.T.E Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pittsburgh pa Posts: 1,484 Trading: (7)	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. Chevrolet, GMC (maybe even drop this...not sure), Pontiac, Saturn, Cadillac, Hummer (h1 only), these are the lines I would keep if I was running the show. When was the last time you saw a buick made in the past 5 years on the road?

03-30-2009, 10:17 AM	#19
Texan in Mexico Feeling at Home Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Travis Location: Puerto Morelos, Mexico Posts: 958 Trading: (0)	Re: GM vehicle? Not me. Maybe not buy the Corvette but instead stick a third of that money into GM, Citi and some other "value" stocks?