Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum  

Go Back   Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum > Non Cigar Specialty Forums > Coffee & Tea Forum > Coffee Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-15-2008, 12:59 PM   #1
Mister Moo
I barely grok the obvious
 
Mister Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Dan
Location: Lizard Lick, NC
Posts: 1,417
Trading: (3)
HUpmann Army (Served With Honor)
Mister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the rough
Default Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Yes. The way to go for outrageously good coffee out of a failsafe $20 brewer



Bialetti Express - sure
Bialetti Brikka - I guess so
Bialetti Mukka - why not
Other brands that do the same thing - OK, I guess

1. Object:
the practically worlds best coffee, strong and sweet (NEVER bitter) in minutes; makes just about the best cafe-au-lait, cafe Cubano, Americano and faux-cappuccino.

2. Requirements:
a mokapot - smaller ones (1-3 cup) are the way to go. The big ones seem like a good idea but they are not. A one-cupper is very cool; two-cupper most useful; three-cupper for one hophead ex-crack addict or, perhaps, a normal married couple couple.



freshly roasted coffee (preground is fine but it's alwys better to have your own grinder. For this kind of coffee it has to be a burr grinder, not a whirley-blade chopper type. Grinder are discussed in another thread, maybe, if someone brings it up.)



fresh, clean water.

(please - you know what it looks like)

heat source - gas is good; electric range is fine.



a cool cup.

(cool is in the eye of the beholder)

maybe some sugar and milk.

a cigar or pipe (optional)

3. Methodology:
Sweat these details with a conventional mokapot. (Piss-all if you got a Brikka - you won't need to know a thing.)

Having filled the lower pot with water to just-below the safety valve and wiped water from the threads, etc., pack coffee gently and evenly into the filter and place it into the lower pot. I advise forming a mild dome when filling, such that, when the upper pot is screwed down snugly, you can ( right then - not after brewing!) open it back up and see a clear imprint* of the upper pots filter. No solid imprint means not enough coffee; inability to screw the upper portion ALL the way down means too much coffee.

*

Screw the upper pot on tight - I mean tight-tight, put the thing on medium heat and wait a few minute for the goo to start oozing out the post. Don't keep the pot hot enough for the coffee to squirt. It should ooze - about 45-seconds worth to brew a pot - to insure the coffee doesn't taste burnt. You may reduce heat or remove the pot from the heat source to control the brewing rate. Too much heat is a bad thing.



Fresh coffee, good pack, tight screw-down and slow brewing may reward you with caramel brown (false) crema as the brewing occurs. If you have a stainless steel pot, don't expect to see much of the crema, though.



This is a stellar drink straight or sweet or 50/50 with hot milk and a bit of sugar. There are few places on earth where we keep such high expectations for our moka as right here. This is THE place to learn the tricks and get the tips from moka-monsters. There are so-called world-class lifetime coffee demons who haven't even DREAMED of making moka like we do, right here in the Asylum. While the gurus are talking about "moka", we're right here getting 100% of the glory out of the beans. Amen. Your questions are welcomed.

Rock on. Party down. Excellent.
__________________
"I hope you had the time of your life."

Last edited by pnoon; 10-15-2008 at 07:40 PM. Reason: removed double IMG tags
Mister Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 01:06 PM   #2
mikeyj23
Feeling at Home
 
mikeyj23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Michael
Location: Texas
Posts: 635
Trading: (10)
HUpmann
mikeyj23 will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Great post. As for the grind for moka - my burr grinder has 18 different settings. Where along those 18 would you expect moka grind to be? I suppose I just need a place to start, then try finer and coarser from there till I get a better feel for it.
mikeyj23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 01:23 PM   #3
Mister Moo
I barely grok the obvious
 
Mister Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Dan
Location: Lizard Lick, NC
Posts: 1,417
Trading: (3)
HUpmann Army (Served With Honor)
Mister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyj23 View Post
Great post. As for the grind for moka - my burr grinder has 18 different settings. Where along those 18 would you expect moka grind to be? I suppose I just need a place to start, then try finer and coarser from there till I get a better feel for it.
If you already make espresso, the scope is broader and the grind can be somewhat more coarse to give best results (heaps of crema is my idea of best results). Your test for best grind goes like this:

- pack the filter snug & domed and screw the top on so tight that it doesn't leak anything - not even a hint of vapor. If:

a) water comes whipping through the post, the grind is too coarse; or
b) if the safety valves blows and spews a mess all over the kitchen, the grind is too coarse

Me? I like living on the edge. I always go right to the exploding mokapot setting then reset the grinder one notch more coarse and try again. After a few tries of getting it right you have a feel for the grind. Fine, but not too fine.

__________________
"I hope you had the time of your life."
Mister Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 05:15 PM   #4
Zipper
Still Watching My Back
 
Zipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Where the wild things are
Posts: 74
Trading: (1)
ERdM
Zipper is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

I know I avoided the coffee forum like the plague before...but now's a good a time as any to try new things, right?

So I guess my query is: Why Bialetti?
__________________
"I went out to the insane asylum, and I found my baby out there, and I said 'Please come back to me baby. What are you doin' here?'" -Willie Dixon
Zipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 05:34 PM   #5
md4958
Captain Cannoli
 
md4958's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Moe
Location: Suffield, CT
Posts: 5,712
Trading: (62)
HUpmann
md4958 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Great post. One thing about mokas that should be mentioned is the more you use it the better your coffee will taste.

also, never put it in the dishwasher.
md4958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 05:45 PM   #6
TRicker
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

I keep trying mine, but it tastes burnt. I think I am running to hot?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 06:13 PM   #7
Mister Moo
I barely grok the obvious
 
Mister Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Dan
Location: Lizard Lick, NC
Posts: 1,417
Trading: (3)
HUpmann Army (Served With Honor)
Mister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipper View Post
I know I avoided the coffee forum like the plague before...but now's a good a time as any to try new things, right?

So I guess my query is: Why Bialetti?
Fun thing, getting good results from a mokapot.

Why Bialetti? I guess they make the most of them and have 'em right. I've tried off-brands from ebay, the specialty stores, etc. and they don't always execute so well. Pots come in aluminum (don't clean them with soap), stainless steel (good, durable brewers but they don't seem to produce crema) and ceramic (never had one but they're pretty).

Exception: a little red-topped Guzzini, if you can find one. Heavy, well made good design. Hard to find.

__________________
"I hope you had the time of your life."
Mister Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 06:20 PM   #8
md4958
Captain Cannoli
 
md4958's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Moe
Location: Suffield, CT
Posts: 5,712
Trading: (62)
HUpmann
md4958 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Moo View Post
Why Bialetti?

I agree. I sell a couple different brands at my shop. But I always recommend the Bialetti to my customers. Yeah, they are twice as much price wise, but if you take care of them and change the gaskets they will last you forever.

Im my opinion the stainless steel look beautiful (my mom has them for when company is over) but they make a lousy cup of coffee.
md4958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 06:34 PM   #9
Mister Moo
I barely grok the obvious
 
Mister Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Dan
Location: Lizard Lick, NC
Posts: 1,417
Trading: (3)
HUpmann Army (Served With Honor)
Mister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRicker View Post
I keep trying mine, but it tastes burnt. I think I am running to hot?
Well... cut that out.

Slow brewing under pressure is the key. And you can't get that good, slow gooey brew if the grind isn't fine enough and the filter isn't filled FULLY and EVENLY.

Here's the deal. When water hits the ground coffee in the filterbasket it expands. The expanding coffee, soon to be a rock hard puck, creates resistance to the flow of water. The resistance creates a lot of pressure inside the lower pot, capice? It's the water, moving slowly thru the puck, that drags all the good stuff out of the grind. To get the pressure and the good stuff from the ground beans and to NOT get a burnt or bitter taste... the water needs to move thru all the coffee in the puck.
  • If there isn't enough coffee in the basket it won't be able to swell up (enough) and create real pressure; and/or
  • If the coffee isn't packed in the basket uniformly, water will cut a channel thru the path of least resistance and bypass a lot of the grind.

So you need to use a burr grinder (or buy professionally ground coffee) to get uniform grounds that won't encourage water channeling. Also, you have to fill the basket fully and uniformly to avoid channeling, insure even wetting of the grounds and to create the pressure that really gets the oils emulsified, out of the grind and into your cup.

Short version - grind evenly and pack the filterbasket full and uniformly. Brew slowly.

I hope this helps.
__________________
"I hope you had the time of your life."

Last edited by Mister Moo; 10-15-2008 at 06:36 PM.
Mister Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 06:36 PM   #10
md4958
Captain Cannoli
 
md4958's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Moe
Location: Suffield, CT
Posts: 5,712
Trading: (62)
HUpmann
md4958 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Moo View Post

So you need to use a burr grinder (or buy professionally ground coffee) to get uniform grounds that won't encourage water channeling. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRicker View Post
I keep trying mine, but it tastes burnt. I think I am running to hot?

Tim, if you need some coffee, ill set you up on Friday.
md4958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 06:50 PM   #11
Mister Moo
I barely grok the obvious
 
Mister Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Dan
Location: Lizard Lick, NC
Posts: 1,417
Trading: (3)
HUpmann Army (Served With Honor)
Mister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by md4958 View Post
...Im my opinion the stainless steel look beautiful (my mom has them for when company is over) but they make a lousy cup of coffee.
I agree they look good but I'm not so certain about the quality of the cup.

In my experience stainless is tricky to heat slowly and lame in the crema department - but I can't tell a difference in the taste between brew from stainless and aluminum. This conclusion comes after weeks of using both, side by side. I know it's easy to overheat coffee in a steel pot during brewing and that, for sure, can lead to less-than-ideal brew. Steel is bit finicky but not (exactly) a bad thing. I think steel just demands more practice to get it right. In my opinion.
__________________
"I hope you had the time of your life."

Last edited by Mister Moo; 10-15-2008 at 06:59 PM.
Mister Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 06:57 PM   #12
md4958
Captain Cannoli
 
md4958's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Moe
Location: Suffield, CT
Posts: 5,712
Trading: (62)
HUpmann
md4958 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Moo View Post
I agree they look good but I'm not so certain about the quality of the cup.

In my experience stainless is tricky to heat slowly and lame in the crema department - but I can't tell a difference in the taste between brew from stainless and aluminum. This conclusion comes after weeks of using both, side by side. I know it's easy to overheat coffee in a steel pot during brewing and that, for sure, can lead to less-than-ideal brew. Steel is bit finicky but not (exactly) a bad thing. I think steel just more practice to get it right. In my opinion.
I think your opinion is justified. Its the same as in anyother cookware. Stainless looks great and is easy to clean etc, but aluminium transfers heat more efficiently.

I had a customer come in and ask about stainless mokas while my cousin from italy was here. The woman insisted that one should only use a stainless pot because of the health risks associated with aluminium.
My cousin responeded in italian "yeah, but they make shitty coffee, and life is too short to drink shitty coffee"... she bought the aluminum bialetti.
md4958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 07:06 PM   #13
D_A
Dave's not here
 
D_A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: David
Location: NC
Posts: 272
Trading: (7)
Bolivar
D_A is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Great post! I just picked up a Bialetti and there are some great tips in here to help me improve. Thanks.
D_A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 07:23 PM   #14
TRicker
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Moo View Post
Well... cut that out.

Slow brewing under pressure is the key. And you can't get that good, slow gooey brew if the grind isn't fine enough and the filter isn't filled FULLY and EVENLY.

Here's the deal. When water hits the ground coffee in the filterbasket it expands. The expanding coffee, soon to be a rock hard puck, creates resistance to the flow of water. The resistance creates a lot of pressure inside the lower pot, capice? It's the water, moving slowly thru the puck, that drags all the good stuff out of the grind. To get the pressure and the good stuff from the ground beans and to NOT get a burnt or bitter taste... the water needs to move thru all the coffee in the puck.
  • If there isn't enough coffee in the basket it won't be able to swell up (enough) and create real pressure; and/or
  • If the coffee isn't packed in the basket uniformly, water will cut a channel thru the path of least resistance and bypass a lot of the grind.

So you need to use a burr grinder (or buy professionally ground coffee) to get uniform grounds that won't encourage water channeling. Also, you have to fill the basket fully and uniformly to avoid channeling, insure even wetting of the grounds and to create the pressure that really gets the oils emulsified, out of the grind and into your cup.

Short version - grind evenly and pack the filterbasket full and uniformly. Brew slowly.

I hope this helps.
Thanks for the tip, I got a burr grinder,so I think I'm ok there, Pretty sure I just need to slow down the actual procees.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 07:24 PM   #15
TRicker
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by md4958 View Post
Tim, if you need some coffee, ill set you up on Friday.
Thanks for the offer but I'm good for now. Just got a couple a pounds of killer beans coffee I'm playing with.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 07:36 PM   #16
md4958
Captain Cannoli
 
md4958's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Moe
Location: Suffield, CT
Posts: 5,712
Trading: (62)
HUpmann
md4958 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRicker View Post
Thanks for the offer but I'm good for now. Just got a couple a pounds of killer beans coffee I'm playing with.
If the roast and blend arent right youll never make good italian coffee... what kinda coffee are you using
md4958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 07:42 PM   #17
Mister Moo
I barely grok the obvious
 
Mister Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Dan
Location: Lizard Lick, NC
Posts: 1,417
Trading: (3)
HUpmann Army (Served With Honor)
Mister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the roughMister Moo is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

David! Tricker! Good deal.

Please keep us posted on your results.
__________________
"I hope you had the time of your life."
Mister Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 08:31 PM   #18
SteveDMatt
I can't think of anything
 
SteveDMatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: uhhh, Steve
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 78
Trading: (5)
SteveDMatt is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

I know this may be sacrilegious,but the Dr. says no caffeine. Can you recommend a decaf blend for this type of brewing? My moka pot has been on the shelf since the Dr.s recommendation.

Great thread BTW.
__________________
Cigar Asylum Rocks!
SteveDMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 10:34 PM   #19
macms
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
macms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Mile High
Posts: 996
Trading: (56)
VR Army (Served With Honor)
macms has disabled reputation
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

md4958 gifted this to me and now my wife and I are enjoying wonderful "coffee"

macms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 11:06 PM   #20
GoodFella
out to sea
 
GoodFella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SC2FL
Posts: 588
Trading: (7)
ERdM AirForce (Active)
GoodFella has disabled reputation
Default Re: Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

thanks for the insight, now i have to go try this
GoodFella is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content is copyrighted jointly by Cigar Asylum and the content provider.