Training taste buds.

oooo35980 · 02-10-2012, 02:33 PM

So I'm rapidly discovering I have the most uneducated palette ever. I keep trying to make out some flavors from the flavor wheel I have but I can't really find any of them, other than pepper. I was smoking a hdm reposado en cedros yesterday and couldn't even make out the cedar taste. I enjoy the smoke and I can tell when the flavors change during smoking they just don't seem to remind me of anything but tobacco and smoke.

Has anyone here gone from unable to make out the different tastes in a cigar to being decent at it? I'd like to be able to describe a cigar but it kinda feels like a case of "some people can and some can't" with me being the latter.

wayner123 · 02-10-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oooo35980

So I'm rapidly discovering I have the most uneducated palette ever. I keep trying to make out some flavors from the flavor wheel I have but I can't really find any of them, other than pepper. I was smoking a hdm reposado en cedros yesterday and couldn't even make out the cedar taste. I enjoy the smoke and I can tell when the flavors change during smoking they just don't seem to remind me of anything but tobacco and smoke.

Has anyone here gone from unable to make out the different tastes in a cigar to being decent at it? I'd like to be able to describe a cigar but it kinda feels like a case of "some people can and some can't" with me being the latter.

Describing the taste you experience and actually noticing the taste are really two separate things.

First off, what are you eating or drinking while having a cigar?

Skywalker · 02-10-2012, 02:42 PM

Sometime pairing with a drink can help; subtle nuances and flavor notes can come through easier.

Having some dark chocolate while smoking can also help define notes.

NCRadioMan · 02-10-2012, 02:42 PM

I used to be quite good at it then I realized it's really meaningless so now I don't bother. All that matters is that you like it or don't. I also think the "flavor wheel" gives you pre-conceived notions that are not helpfull, at all.

Also, to really get those different flavors you must retrohale (nose exhale without inhaling in the lungs) the smoke.

jluck · 02-10-2012, 02:47 PM

I'm just now starting to be able to "taste" flavors and Tobacco from different regions and starting to know what I like....somewhat.

I also always try to have a cold root beer with my cigar to keep a flavor baseline.

ApexAZ · 02-10-2012, 02:52 PM

I taste a lot of the same flavors, depending on the cigar I'm smoking. I also think my pallet changes from day to day. Cigars for the past two days have been fairly bitter for some reason, which sucks.

I get a lot of coffee, cream, earth and leather. Some cigars, like the God of Fire and more recently the LP9, I get a sweet buttery flavor. There's lots of other more detailed flavors that people describe, such as cinnamon, spice, etc. I don't usually get those subtle and refined flavors.

02-10-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

I used to be quite good at it then I realized it's really meaningless so now I don't bother. All that matters is that you like it or don't. I also think the "flavor wheel" gives you pre-conceived notions that are not helpfull, at all.

Also, to really get those different flavors you must retrohale (nose exhale without inhaling in the lungs) the smoke.

The only way I taste floral notes and citrus notes is on the retrohale

Skywalker · 02-10-2012, 02:55 PM

Bobarian will probably tell you to change your toothpaste!

oooo35980 · 02-10-2012, 03:01 PM

I always drink water with a cigar. A strong drink and a cigar are too much at once for me. I do the nose exhale a few times a stick, usually when I can tell the flavors are changing. I mainly just want to be able to articulate what I like in a cigar.

I was telling the owner of a cigar shop that I really like K.A. Kendall 7-20-4 and he told me that he had some other really peppery cigars. I never would have described the Kendall's as peppery, as a matter of fact until that point I avoided any cigar described to me as peppery. I thought peppery was that flavor that comes out in alot of A. Fuente cigars that I honestly just don't enjoy that much.

G G · 02-10-2012, 04:15 PM

awesome, okay, crappy. My three tasting profiles.

dwoodward · 02-10-2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G G

awesome, okay, crappy. My three tasting profiles.

lol that was almost exactly what was going thru my head...

shilala · 02-10-2012, 04:29 PM

Retrohale, take small amounts of smoke, slow down, let the cigar captivate you, and you'll find out all sorts of things you've not noticed.
One thing I noticed from when I started that every single cigar I smoked tasted the same. It's because I smoked them all the same. 100 miles an hour, as fast as I could.
Flavors are nuance. There ain't much nuance in a sledgehammer.

I still wrestle with long skinny cc's, I enjoy them so much that I get them burning so hot that it ruins them. They go from very enjoyable to burning hay. I know who's fault that is now.
It helps to get with other guys who will teach you, literally, how to smoke a cigar to achieve what you're trying to achieve. There's nothing wrond with steamrollering through a cigar, but speed and heat is going to give the same effect with every cigar.

jluck · 02-10-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G G

awesome, okay, crappy. My three tasting profiles.

Is this a rule of three?

Really though I like it! That's the best rating system yet.

lenguamor · 02-10-2012, 06:22 PM

It helps to be someone who really likes to cook...or at least eat.

If you enjoy food and can train yourself to distinguish flavors, applying that to cigars is a logical, easy step.

Other factors include whether you are/were a cigarette smoker or a dipper. That can dull your palate and it can take months, if not years, after quitting to regain the ability to discern nuance.

I like noting flavor complexity in both food and cigars. I like sharing what I experience in reviews and in conversation, although there are those who couldn't care less. I do it for me. If it is important enough to you, then I'm confident that you'll find a way to develop your perception.

lenguamor · 02-10-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shilala

Retrohale, take small amounts of smoke, slow down, let the cigar captivate you, and you'll find out all sorts of things you've not noticed.
One thing I noticed from when I started that every single cigar I smoked tasted the same. It's because I smoked them all the same. 100 miles an hour, as fast as I could.
Flavors are nuance. There ain't much nuance in a sledgehammer.

I still wrestle with long skinny cc's, I enjoy them so much that I get them burning so hot that it ruins them. They go from very enjoyable to burning hay. I know who's fault that is now.
It helps to get with other guys who will teach you, literally, how to smoke a cigar to achieve what you're trying to achieve. There's nothing wrond with steamrollering through a cigar, but speed and heat is going to give the same effect with every cigar.

Great post, Scott.

oooo35980 · 02-10-2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shilala

Retrohale, take small amounts of smoke, slow down, let the cigar captivate you, and you'll find out all sorts of things you've not noticed.
One thing I noticed from when I started that every single cigar I smoked tasted the same. It's because I smoked them all the same. 100 miles an hour, as fast as I could.
Flavors are nuance. There ain't much nuance in a sledgehammer.

I still wrestle with long skinny cc's, I enjoy them so much that I get them burning so hot that it ruins them. They go from very enjoyable to burning hay. I know who's fault that is now.
It helps to get with other guys who will teach you, literally, how to smoke a cigar to achieve what you're trying to achieve. There's nothing wrond with steamrollering through a cigar, but speed and heat is going to give the same effect with every cigar.

I think I have been going a bit too fast. I'm attempting to slow down on an Undercrown I got today. I was tasting something that I knew I had tasted before but couldn't put my finger on it, looked up a review and while I was reading it sort of hit me, "Coffee". You'd think I could pick that out in my sleep as much coffee as I drink. I don't taste anything remotely floral or any cedar, nor do I really understand how the word creamy could possibly apply, but coffee is a start I guess.

As far as the "Awesome, Okay, Crappy" categories go, I'd put this one in the first column. I might have to get some more of these when I make room in my humidor.

shilala · 02-11-2012, 12:33 AM

There ya go, Isaiah.
Another thing that will help are well-written reviews. If a guy really explains his experience, he'll usually mention how long it took and what size cigar he smoked.
How does the time compare to what you're getting? If its taking this guy an hour and a half and it took you 45 minutes, you're probably still going way too fast.
Some guys really doddle, so you can take that into consideration, but at least you have some sort of idea to help slow yourself down.
Slowing down was the toughest part of cigar smoking for me because I like to do 20 things at once at Mach 5.

Everyone mentioned retrohaling. You didn't mention if you're doing it. That's when you draw smoke in your mouth and blow it slowly out your nose. You want to take small sips or smoke. Large sips will give you a whole different taste/smell/experience.
As you go, you'll pick up different things. You mentioned creamy. All cigars are not creamy. Few are, actually. I can remember a Taboo Twist that left a creaminess in my throat and mouth that was the same as ice cream does. I can't say that I've smoked another "creamy" cigar since.
We all have different palettes, too. Joe mentioned dipping. I chew a can a day at least. It definately dulls my senses. Because of that I levitate to stronger, spicier, fuller bodied cigars. Because of that I don't get to experience some flavors others enjoy.
You already made a big step by finding coffee. The more you slow down, the more things will pop up.
Realize you won't find every flavoring every cigar. Some are very one-dimensional. They taste like coffee the whole way through, or taste like cooked caramel the whole way through. Some just taste like crap the whole way through.
You'll find flavors and you'll find things you enjoy. Be patient. This is a very patience-demanding hobby.

wayner123 · 02-11-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenguamor

It helps to be someone who really likes to cook...or at least eat.

If you enjoy food and can train yourself to distinguish flavors, applying that to cigars is a logical, easy step.

This is probably the best thing you can do hands down to increase your ability to convey what flavors you are experiencing. You first must have the mental connections to those flavors so engrained that you can recall them from the file cabinet of your brain whenever needed.

As far as retrohaling, it's not all it's cracked up to be for everyone. Sometimes it can make things worse.

Here are 3 of my previous posts to get you started:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showpo...67&postcount=8 - this shows the experiment results I did over at the old board on taste. It was interesting.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=22 - this shows it may simply be you cannot explain flavors because the non verbal right side could be the main factor.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showth...ighlight=snork - A new way of getting the same results without the sinus irritation of retrohaling.

Lastly, you say that you couldn't pick out coffee till you read it from another post and that you drink coffee all the time. But that can be a problem also. Just because someone does something a lot doesn't mean it's that engrained. How often have you sipped on coffee and really took the time to make sure your senses remembered it? I mean really savored every bit of it, with the purpose of cataloging that taste for future recollection?

shilala · 02-11-2012, 10:45 AM

I get what Wayne mentioned about retrohaling, because you have to slide into it softly with little sips of smoke. A big haul off a nic puro can give you immediate irreversible brain damage.
My problem is that otherwise, I'd taste nothing. I also like to smell the smoke coming off each end of the cigar and sometimes inhale lightly to get even more flavors.
If I didn't retrohale, I'd get absolutely nothing from cc's.
Personally I think it's an indispensible part of cigar smoking, and think everyone should at least have the skill in their arsenal. If they choose not to use it, especially with very strong cigars, that option is always available.

oooo35980 · 02-11-2012, 01:33 PM

I try to retrohale at least a few times a cigar, it took me some work since I have sensitive sinuses and I thought I had done myself irreperable harm a few times, so if I don't do it I feel like that practice was for nothing. It honestly doesn't add a great deal to the experience for me its just something I feel obligated to do.

I've never had a CC and every time I retrohale its at least mildly unpleasant, some better, some worse, but never really something I look forward to.

I have a bunch of hdm reposado en cedros, and I'm currently trying to make out the cedar which by all accounts should be overpowering, but it just isn't there for me. Maybe I should retrohale more.

02-10-2012, 02:33 PM	#1
oooo35980 Feeling at Home Join Date: Mar 2011 First Name: Isaiah Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 569 Trading: (3)	Training taste buds. So I'm rapidly discovering I have the most uneducated palette ever. I keep trying to make out some flavors from the flavor wheel I have but I can't really find any of them, other than pepper. I was smoking a hdm reposado en cedros yesterday and couldn't even make out the cedar taste. I enjoy the smoke and I can tell when the flavors change during smoking they just don't seem to remind me of anything but tobacco and smoke. Has anyone here gone from unable to make out the different tastes in a cigar to being decent at it? I'd like to be able to describe a cigar but it kinda feels like a case of "some people can and some can't" with me being the latter.

02-10-2012, 02:42 PM	#3
Skywalker BABOTL Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dice Location: Galaxy Far Far Away Posts: 10,168 Trading: (18)	Re: Training taste buds. Sometime pairing with a drink can help; subtle nuances and flavor notes can come through easier. Having some dark chocolate while smoking can also help define notes. __________________ Smoke what you like!!!

02-10-2012, 02:42 PM	#4
NCRadioMan Chutney Lovebusciut Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Chutney Location: On the shores of Loch Shiel Posts: 4,276 Trading: (66)	Re: Training taste buds. I used to be quite good at it then I realized it's really meaningless so now I don't bother. All that matters is that you like it or don't. I also think the "flavor wheel" gives you pre-conceived notions that are not helpfull, at all. Also, to really get those different flavors you must retrohale (nose exhale without inhaling in the lungs) the smoke. __________________ The path to loyalty is trust. Last edited by NCRadioMan; 02-10-2012 at 02:49 PM.

02-10-2012, 02:47 PM	#5
jluck Way out there Join Date: Jan 2012 First Name: Jared Location: Oregon Posts: 1,289 Trading: (12)	Re: Training taste buds. I'm just now starting to be able to "taste" flavors and Tobacco from different regions and starting to know what I like....somewhat. I also always try to have a cold root beer with my cigar to keep a flavor baseline.

02-10-2012, 02:52 PM	#6
ApexAZ Wandering aimlessly Join Date: Oct 2011 First Name: Brian Location: Sonoran Desert Posts: 1,299 Trading: (10)	Re: Training taste buds. I taste a lot of the same flavors, depending on the cigar I'm smoking. I also think my pallet changes from day to day. Cigars for the past two days have been fairly bitter for some reason, which sucks. I get a lot of coffee, cream, earth and leather. Some cigars, like the God of Fire and more recently the LP9, I get a sweet buttery flavor. There's lots of other more detailed flavors that people describe, such as cinnamon, spice, etc. I don't usually get those subtle and refined flavors.

02-10-2012, 02:55 PM	#8
Skywalker BABOTL Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dice Location: Galaxy Far Far Away Posts: 10,168 Trading: (18)	Re: Training taste buds. Bobarian will probably tell you to change your toothpaste! __________________ Smoke what you like!!!

02-10-2012, 03:01 PM	#9
oooo35980 Feeling at Home Join Date: Mar 2011 First Name: Isaiah Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 569 Trading: (3)	Re: Training taste buds. I always drink water with a cigar. A strong drink and a cigar are too much at once for me. I do the nose exhale a few times a stick, usually when I can tell the flavors are changing. I mainly just want to be able to articulate what I like in a cigar. I was telling the owner of a cigar shop that I really like K.A. Kendall 7-20-4 and he told me that he had some other really peppery cigars. I never would have described the Kendall's as peppery, as a matter of fact until that point I avoided any cigar described to me as peppery. I thought peppery was that flavor that comes out in alot of A. Fuente cigars that I honestly just don't enjoy that much.

02-10-2012, 04:15 PM	#10
G G BR549 Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Greg Location: Taylor, FL. Posts: 12,701 Trading: (10)	Re: Training taste buds. awesome, okay, crappy. My three tasting profiles.

02-10-2012, 04:29 PM	#12
shilala Dear Lord, Thank You. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Scott Posts: 13,721 Trading: (252)	Re: Training taste buds. Retrohale, take small amounts of smoke, slow down, let the cigar captivate you, and you'll find out all sorts of things you've not noticed. One thing I noticed from when I started that every single cigar I smoked tasted the same. It's because I smoked them all the same. 100 miles an hour, as fast as I could. Flavors are nuance. There ain't much nuance in a sledgehammer. I still wrestle with long skinny cc's, I enjoy them so much that I get them burning so hot that it ruins them. They go from very enjoyable to burning hay. I know who's fault that is now. It helps to get with other guys who will teach you, literally, how to smoke a cigar to achieve what you're trying to achieve. There's nothing wrond with steamrollering through a cigar, but speed and heat is going to give the same effect with every cigar. __________________

02-10-2012, 06:22 PM	#14
lenguamor puta por Ninfas! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Joe Location: The 305 again! Posts: 1,030 Trading: (23)	Re: Training taste buds. It helps to be someone who really likes to cook...or at least eat. If you enjoy food and can train yourself to distinguish flavors, applying that to cigars is a logical, easy step. Other factors include whether you are/were a cigarette smoker or a dipper. That can dull your palate and it can take months, if not years, after quitting to regain the ability to discern nuance. I like noting flavor complexity in both food and cigars. I like sharing what I experience in reviews and in conversation, although there are those who couldn't care less. I do it for me. If it is important enough to you, then I'm confident that you'll find a way to develop your perception. __________________

02-11-2012, 12:33 AM	#17
shilala Dear Lord, Thank You. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Scott Posts: 13,721 Trading: (252)	Re: Training taste buds. There ya go, Isaiah. Another thing that will help are well-written reviews. If a guy really explains his experience, he'll usually mention how long it took and what size cigar he smoked. How does the time compare to what you're getting? If its taking this guy an hour and a half and it took you 45 minutes, you're probably still going way too fast. Some guys really doddle, so you can take that into consideration, but at least you have some sort of idea to help slow yourself down. Slowing down was the toughest part of cigar smoking for me because I like to do 20 things at once at Mach 5. Everyone mentioned retrohaling. You didn't mention if you're doing it. That's when you draw smoke in your mouth and blow it slowly out your nose. You want to take small sips or smoke. Large sips will give you a whole different taste/smell/experience. As you go, you'll pick up different things. You mentioned creamy. All cigars are not creamy. Few are, actually. I can remember a Taboo Twist that left a creaminess in my throat and mouth that was the same as ice cream does. I can't say that I've smoked another "creamy" cigar since. We all have different palettes, too. Joe mentioned dipping. I chew a can a day at least. It definately dulls my senses. Because of that I levitate to stronger, spicier, fuller bodied cigars. Because of that I don't get to experience some flavors others enjoy. You already made a big step by finding coffee. The more you slow down, the more things will pop up. Realize you won't find every flavoring every cigar. Some are very one-dimensional. They taste like coffee the whole way through, or taste like cooked caramel the whole way through. Some just taste like crap the whole way through. You'll find flavors and you'll find things you enjoy. Be patient. This is a very patience-demanding hobby. __________________

02-11-2012, 10:45 AM	#19
shilala Dear Lord, Thank You. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Scott Posts: 13,721 Trading: (252)	Re: Training taste buds. I get what Wayne mentioned about retrohaling, because you have to slide into it softly with little sips of smoke. A big haul off a nic puro can give you immediate irreversible brain damage. My problem is that otherwise, I'd taste nothing. I also like to smell the smoke coming off each end of the cigar and sometimes inhale lightly to get even more flavors. If I didn't retrohale, I'd get absolutely nothing from cc's. Personally I think it's an indispensible part of cigar smoking, and think everyone should at least have the skill in their arsenal. If they choose not to use it, especially with very strong cigars, that option is always available. __________________

02-11-2012, 01:33 PM	#20
oooo35980 Feeling at Home Join Date: Mar 2011 First Name: Isaiah Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 569 Trading: (3)	Re: Training taste buds. I try to retrohale at least a few times a cigar, it took me some work since I have sensitive sinuses and I thought I had done myself irreperable harm a few times, so if I don't do it I feel like that practice was for nothing. It honestly doesn't add a great deal to the experience for me its just something I feel obligated to do. I've never had a CC and every time I retrohale its at least mildly unpleasant, some better, some worse, but never really something I look forward to. I have a bunch of hdm reposado en cedros, and I'm currently trying to make out the cedar which by all accounts should be overpowering, but it just isn't there for me. Maybe I should retrohale more.