Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum  

Go Back   Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum > Cigar Forums > Accessory Discussion / Reviews

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-29-2013, 10:54 AM   #1
big_jaygee
I'm nuts for the place
 
big_jaygee's Avatar
9
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
First Name: Jason
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,914
Trading: (59)
big_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to behold
Default This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

I had a problem with my wineador and i sent the Scott Shilala a message to help me figure out the problem. Here is his response and as he requested i am posting his response in this thread for everybody's future reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shilala
Hi Jason,
Sorry about your mess, brother. I feel your pain.
I wish I could draw a picture, it'd save a thousand words, but here I go...

When we create a humidor, we create a sealed environment with a very finite amount of water in there.
You'd probably say "Opening the door adds and subtracts water!!!", and it does. But that water is in the form of water vapor.
That's where a guy like me goes to math, volumes, and the properties of water in the two states, solid and vapor.
When I start massaging all those numbers, I find that opening and closing your door (or lid) only adds or removes a very, very, very, tiny amount of water vapor. I can literally open and close the door hundreds of times before there's an appreciable change in the RH inside the humi.
If those openings and closings happen across the seasons, things balance out. In most places humidity in the home is higher in the summer and lower in the winter, everything considered.

So now we have to look at time. More math. Ugh.
If we add up the time we've had the door open all year long, it isn't much. Let's use a ridiculous example. I go to my humidor 3 times a day, leaving the door open for 5 minutes each time because I never know what I want to smoke, and I do that every single day of the year.
If I total that up, it means that the door has been opened a grand total of 4 days time across the entire year.
If I left my humidor open for 4 days straight, I'm probably going to have an issue. With beads, I can fix it overnight. They can handle 4 days of water vapor, no problem. They'll only rise to the RH of the room around it, and I can dry that out in the fridge or freezer.
Fridge or freezer? Hmm. The water will go out of my beads and go into the fridge or freezer. How?
That's simple. The RH in the fridge or freezer is lower than that of the beads, so the water comes out of my beads as water vapor and into the air in the freezer. Once it's in the air in the freezer, it condenses on, get this, THE CONDENSER!!!
Oddly enough, our winadors have a condenser, too.

In freezers and fridges, the water drips off and collects in a pan, then goes out a drain.
In our winadors, we plug our drains. Why?
Because in winadors, we need a perfectly sealed, or hermetic environment, so that we can control the humidity. That's why they're called humidors.
In refrigerators and freezers, nobody cares. The drain is a wonderful thing, or water would run on the floor.

So, now we covered everything that goes on, at least to a degree. The things we have discussed, so far as the math and properties of water and how it acts, those things are static. When God's hand created all this, He made it all real simple. There are laws that do not change. We can count on them, and we can use those laws to help us live successful lives, and not be complete knuckleheads. I'm not even talking about The Commandments, I'm talking physical laws.

When I figure this stuff out, and Michael does the same, cause he knows all this crap, we look at what folks say.
Personally, I like to assume everything you said is solid accurate. But if that's the case, I have to assume you missed something.
The water you have puddled in there absolutely had to come from outside the humidor, because it didn't exist inside it until recently.
If the seal is okay, then there's probably a fist sized hole in the side or back of the unit. I can guess this cause you Texans like your big guns.
If there's no big holes, then we have to assume the seal isn't seating, because they fail after a year or two. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but they fail. Or the unit gets racked cause it's not level, and the seal just isn't seating right.

Honestly, there could be a crack or seam anywhere that opened up. But it's big. Real big.
We know that for two reasons. It takes a HUGE volume of outside air to create that much water, especially in the dry winter.
So that unit is leaking 24 hours a day. So much so that it's changing the unit's temperature, making the cooling run all the time, condensing water and dumping it in the bottom.

Sorry, my brother. It happens. To avoid this misery, I use modified compressor driven refrigerators to store my sticks, and a big display humidor in our nice, cool basement.
You can start from scratch, fix that thing if you can, or drive up here and get this winador I built that I'm getting rid of.

Do me a favor and post this, will ya?
Maybe a "This is why my winador leaked" thread or something. That'd help guys a lot, cause I seldom want to type all this.
Hope this helps, my friend!!!
God Bless you and yours,
Scott
big_jaygee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 11:27 AM   #2
MrClean
Bald Man
 
MrClean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
First Name: Jeff
Location: KC MO
Posts: 2,229
Trading: (28)
Montecristo
MrClean is a jewel in the roughMrClean is a jewel in the roughMrClean is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

It's interesting, even though I 'know' all the stuff Scott just said, hearing him explain it this way just makes it all 'click' in my head. Thanks for posting this Jason and I hope you find the issue with your wineador brother!
MrClean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 12:23 PM   #3
G G
BR549
 
G G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Greg
Location: Taylor, FL.
Posts: 12,700
Trading: (10)
Bolivar
G G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant futureG G has a brilliant future
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

Scott surely has a way explaining things that makes it easy.
G G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 12:50 PM   #4
stearns
Dogbert Consultant
 
stearns's Avatar
16
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Ben
Location: Park Hill
Posts: 5,335
Trading: (50)
RA
stearns is a name known to allstearns is a name known to allstearns is a name known to allstearns is a name known to allstearns is a name known to allstearns is a name known to all
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

the scott shilala is quite a bright creature
__________________
"Ignoring all the racket of conventional reality" - Keller Williams
stearns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 12:53 PM   #5
14holestogie
Serial banter killer
 
14holestogie's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Tim
Location: Clintonville, WI
Posts: 4,341
Trading: (52)
Partagas
14holestogie is a splendid one to behold14holestogie is a splendid one to behold14holestogie is a splendid one to behold14holestogie is a splendid one to behold14holestogie is a splendid one to behold14holestogie is a splendid one to behold14holestogie is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

They don't give those the away for everybody.
It's gotta be earned.
__________________
I loves me a Parti
14holestogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 12:59 PM   #6
big_jaygee
I'm nuts for the place
 
big_jaygee's Avatar
9
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
First Name: Jason
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,914
Trading: (59)
big_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14holestogie View Post
They don't give those the away for everybody.
It's gotta be earned.


i just saw that...trust me if it was intentional it would have been capitalized and his full title

The Great Scott Shilala
big_jaygee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 01:19 PM   #7
shilala
Dear Lord, Thank You.
 
shilala's Avatar
6
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Scott
Posts: 13,721
Trading: (252)
Cuaba
shilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

I just read it and I didn't really understand it.
-the Scott Shilala
__________________
shilala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 01:22 PM   #8
big_jaygee
I'm nuts for the place
 
big_jaygee's Avatar
9
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
First Name: Jason
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,914
Trading: (59)
big_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

that is what happens when i type something and don't proofread before i hit post. more then likely i was tying something and didn't like the way it sounded so i deleted it and kept going...obviously i didn't hit delete enough.
big_jaygee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 02:07 PM   #9
bruceolee
King of Rants
 
bruceolee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
First Name: Jason
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,227
Trading: (1)
Bolivar
bruceolee is a jewel in the roughbruceolee is a jewel in the roughbruceolee is a jewel in the roughbruceolee is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

Mentioning God in science! I say sir you have it all wrong by mixing the 2!



"A good scientist is an atheist and natural laws explain everything but a great scientist proclaims to never truly know that answer but is open to the concept of a creator and like most men and women are searching for the answers to the questions we all should have. It's in our nature and is just as natural as natural laws" ~my college biology teacher~



Great post and very well explained
__________________
“When I have found intense pain relieved, a weary brain soothed, and calm, refreshing sleep obtained by a cigar, I have felt grateful to God, and have blessed His name.” Spurgeon
bruceolee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 02:27 PM   #10
shilala
Dear Lord, Thank You.
 
shilala's Avatar
6
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Scott
Posts: 13,721
Trading: (252)
Cuaba
shilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

Ya know, I should mention that that whole diatribe relates to a bead regulated thermoelectric winador. That matters. Things are a lot less complicated in a humidor that doesn't have a cooling mechanism.
__________________
shilala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 05:13 PM   #11
Lockspur
Have My Own Room
 
Lockspur's Avatar
2
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
First Name: Scotty
Location: Richmond, TX
Posts: 1,376
Trading: (31)
Lockspur is just really niceLockspur is just really niceLockspur is just really niceLockspur is just really nice
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

But have you found the leak?
__________________

Proud member of the GMCGTPWHAFA
Lockspur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 05:41 PM   #12
big_jaygee
I'm nuts for the place
 
big_jaygee's Avatar
9
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
First Name: Jason
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,914
Trading: (59)
big_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

nope....

i pulled out the putty and if i have time i will go to the hardware store to see if i can find some small corks/plugs and try that....

and if not i will blow it up on New Years!! i wonder how many black cats i will need???
big_jaygee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 06:04 PM   #13
bobarian
Cranky Habanophile
 
bobarian's Avatar
3
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wine Country
Posts: 8,869
Trading: (51)
ERdM
bobarian has disabled reputation
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

Why not just turn it off for a couple of weeks? It is unlikely that you need any cooling this time of year. Set your hygrometer so you can see it without opening the door. Also, if your hygrometer has a high/low feature check the range, if its within a reasonable number you are still good to go.
bobarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 06:14 PM   #14
shilala
Dear Lord, Thank You.
 
shilala's Avatar
6
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Scott
Posts: 13,721
Trading: (252)
Cuaba
shilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

Bob has great ideas.
I'd take it outside, block it up in the air a bit, and start filling it with water.
Throw a couple ratchet straps around it once it's about half full, then roll it on every side and see where it leaks.
Then go crazy with silicone.
You may even be able to adjust the door to get it to close right. They usually leak at the seal on the hinge side.
I've fixed lots of humidors by filling them with water, I wouldn't be afraid to do the same with a winador. If there's solid state panels that might get wet, I'd think about taking them out.
You want to move fast because the foam lining can get waterlogged.

You have a BIG leak, Jason. I don't think it's your drain if you had it puttied up good. You could just use duct tape if you go ahead and water test it.
__________________
shilala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 06:25 PM   #15
big_jaygee
I'm nuts for the place
 
big_jaygee's Avatar
9
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
First Name: Jason
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,914
Trading: (59)
big_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to beholdbig_jaygee is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

im sure i could do that...but doesnt sound like it would be as fun as blowing it up....

all kidding aside. if it is going to be that much of a hassle just to get it serviceable as a wineador again, i would rather just use an ice chest. less worry, just toss in some beads and i am good to go.

thanks for all the tips, hints, and ideas
big_jaygee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2013, 09:38 PM   #16
kydsid
Ditat Deus
 
kydsid's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
First Name: Jason
Location: Among the Pines
Posts: 2,361
Trading: (46)
kydsid is just really nicekydsid is just really nicekydsid is just really nicekydsid is just really nice
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

I hate to contradict someone I do respect, and I do respect Scott and his help at this site and to the cigar community as a whole. However as the owner of two wineadors in the same environment as the OP fact is nothing may be wrong. Mine sit unopened for months and can collect water. I can see the evidence inside.

Imo it could be Texas coastal weather and the leak is the cooling system exhaust/intake itself.


Only in the last two years has water stopped collecting. The change? I run a home humidifier now to keep home humidity between 40 and 50% year round. Turn it off for vacation and I usually come back to water.
kydsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 06:45 AM   #17
Subvet642
Bilge Rat
 
Subvet642's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
First Name: Darren
Location: Torpedo Room Bilge
Posts: 2,997
Trading: (13)
LFdC Navy (Served With Honor)
Subvet642 is a name known to allSubvet642 is a name known to allSubvet642 is a name known to allSubvet642 is a name known to allSubvet642 is a name known to allSubvet642 is a name known to all
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_jaygee View Post
im sure i could do that...but doesnt sound like it would be as fun as blowing it up....

all kidding aside. if it is going to be that much of a hassle just to get it serviceable as a wineador again, i would rather just use an ice chest. less worry, just toss in some beads and i am good to go.

thanks for all the tips, hints, and ideas
I use one and it's absolutely hassle free.
__________________
"Man's mind is his basic tool of survival. Life is given to him, survival is not." -John Galt
Subvet642 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 08:22 AM   #18
Simple1
Livin' the dream
 
Simple1's Avatar
3
 
Join Date: May 2013
First Name: Brian
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 303
Trading: (14)
ERdM
Simple1 will become famous soon enough
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

As I learned from a friend who works in the service dept for a large appliance store, a quick fix for a worn out or leaking gasket is a small amount of Vaseline wiped around the seal.
Simple1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 11:26 AM   #19
shilala
Dear Lord, Thank You.
 
shilala's Avatar
6
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Scott
Posts: 13,721
Trading: (252)
Cuaba
shilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond reputeshilala has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

Quote:
Originally Posted by kydsid View Post
I hate to contradict someone I do respect, and I do respect Scott and his help at this site and to the cigar community as a whole. However as the owner of two wineadors in the same environment as the OP fact is nothing may be wrong. Mine sit unopened for months and can collect water. I can see the evidence inside.

Imo it could be Texas coastal weather and the leak is the cooling system exhaust/intake itself.


Only in the last two years has water stopped collecting. The change? I run a home humidifier now to keep home humidity between 40 and 50% year round. Turn it off for vacation and I usually come back to water.
I don't think you contradicted me at all, brother. The leak could very well be around the peltier unit. (As an fyi, there is no transfer of air across a peltier unit, or any other refrigeration system, for that matter.)
As a normal part of operation, any cooling unit will make condensate. It's the volume of condensate that's the question.
A small amount is normal.
A giant puddle and mold growing on stuff, as happened with Jason, that's a leak.
__________________
shilala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 12:12 PM   #20
kydsid
Ditat Deus
 
kydsid's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
First Name: Jason
Location: Among the Pines
Posts: 2,361
Trading: (46)
kydsid is just really nicekydsid is just really nicekydsid is just really nicekydsid is just really nice
Default Re: This Is Why My Wineador Leaked

Well I didn't see the puddle so I can't compare. But I have had water fill all the channels on the bottom of an edgestar to where it leaked when the door was opened.
kydsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content is copyrighted jointly by Cigar Asylum and the content provider.