multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS

kenstogie · 10-03-2010, 08:16 PM

So thought I'd ask who around the Asylum uses Pro Tools or Sonar or anything else for that matter. I've been using Cakewalk SONAR since Pro Audio 7 (10 versions ago)

Chingas · 10-03-2010, 08:19 PM

I have a studio in the basement and I use Pro Tools HD. I started on Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 back in '96, I think. It was a long time ago. Moved along with it thru Sonar 5 then moved to Pro Tools LE and now HD.

What are you using your equipment for?

kenstogie · 10-03-2010, 08:22 PM

mostly acoustic/electric guitar, harmonica and of course some midi stuff. I need some help with the midi stuff for sure.

kenstogie · 10-03-2010, 08:23 PM

What does Pro Tools do that Sonar doesn't and vice versa? I know the pros generally used Pro Tools is that still the case?

Chingas · 10-03-2010, 08:28 PM

It's a mixed bag. Believe it or not Sonar does some things Pro Tools doesn't and vice versa.
Pros use everything today. Most large BigBoy studios stick with Pro Tools HD cause they have used it for so many years. A lot of Basement and home studios use everythign from Cubase to Sonar to Logic, Reaper, etc...

Chingas · 10-03-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenstogie

mostly acoustic/electric guitar, harmonica and of course some midi stuff. I need some help with the midi stuff for sure.

What kind of MIDI help you need?

kenstogie · 10-03-2010, 08:33 PM

all of it

Nah just need to learn it.

Chingas · 10-03-2010, 08:34 PM

Once you understand the concept that it is just data and not audio you'll be fine. It's actually pretty straight forward, just seems complicated in the beginning!

DBall · 10-03-2010, 08:36 PM

I use audacity... it's free and it does what I need it to do.

kenstogie · 10-03-2010, 08:41 PM

mostly set up and config stuff I mostly use it for Audio editing mixing recording straight in from a M Audio mic pre amp with phantom. Use an old Marshall Mxl, SM57,58s they've served me well for not alot of $$. Mostly I would like to use it for drum stuff as I can't play them nor do I have them. I also used fruityloops for a while.

Dan - Audacity is great program and use it for quick edits.

Chingas · 10-03-2010, 08:45 PM

MIDI in and MIDI out are your friends. MIDI in is key. Hook that up to your inbound hardware. Havn't been in Sonar for along time but go to your MIDI settings and be sure that your software sees your controller.

From there, grab a plugin, Piano, synth, whatever or open your MIDI editor and hit some keys. You won't get audio until you tie it to software that can be controlled.

DBall · 10-03-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenstogie

mostly set up and config stuff I mostly use it for Audio editing mixing recording straight in from a M Audio mic pre amp with phantom. Use an old Marshall Mxl, SM57,58s they've served me well for not alot of $$. Mostly I would like to use it for drum stuff as I can't play them nor do I have them. I also used fruityloops for a while.

Dan - Audacity is great program and use it for quick edits.

I don't have the mind of a drummer... would love to have some full song drum beats to record some heavier stuff too... with acoustic I really don't need drums, so I can get away with it.

I tried fruityloops, but everything sounded cheesy... again... I'm no drummer. Hahaha...

kenstogie · 10-04-2010, 07:22 AM

I know that there is a tremendous amount of possiblities with MIDI and I get into it but eventually get to a point where there's a roadblock and can't get what I want or get frustrated as I am heading downa the "rabbit hole".

Fruityloops is kinda different than Sonar or Protools but I think there are alot of good that can come of it. I think Sonar and protools are more pro but you can get pretty darn good sound out of it. FWIW i don't have the mind of a drummer either. Play with clips and loops they can get some great drum sounds out of them as many of them are actually pro drummers recording them.

Chingas · 10-04-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBall

I don't have the mind of a drummer... would love to have some full song drum beats to record some heavier stuff too... with acoustic I really don't need drums, so I can get away with it.

I tried fruityloops, but everything sounded cheesy... again... I'm no drummer. Hahaha...

Dan, I play drums. Very little but enough to hold a beat. But today you don't need to be a drummer. There are fantastic loops out there and with MIDI you can actualy program your beats note per note if you wanted to.

10-04-2010, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chingas

Dan, I play drums. Very little but enough to hold a beat. But today you don't need to be a drummer. There are fantastic loops out there and with MIDI you can actualy program your beats note per note if you wanted to.

And it will always sound programmed.
Live drummers can put "feel" into every little motion. Try keeping a jazzy, off-beat ride cymbal riff going by programming it in. Of course you can sample but that was played live originally.
I used to record on an 8 track reel to reel a long time ago. I had a lot of fun doing that. Never made any money. I have been watching CL and ebay for similar equipment, just to lay down some tracks of stuff I created in the past twenty years. I don't like the sound of most modern recordings. CD quality is far undersampled.
What kind of equipment do you need to get high quality digital? It would have to be a lot better than CDs (44.1 kHz, 16 bit).

kenstogie · 10-04-2010, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

And it will always sound programmed.
Live drummers can put "feel" into every little motion. Try keeping a jazzy, off-beat ride cymbal riff going by programming it in. Of course you can sample but that was played live originally.

Lance has a very valid point. Same as with any musician mostly.

kenstogie · 10-06-2010, 08:02 AM

Well after pulling out my hair and wondering why certain componants of Sonar 6 were "disappearing" I called Cakewalk and was told that SONAR 6 PE just won't work with W7. So after dealing with this pretty much every time and dealing with a host of other various issues both hardware and software (though mostly software) I am considering switching. Pro tools? PE 8? what other options are there and of course what's the cost?? In all honesty I may also try to bit torrent a newer version of Sonar.

I'd also like to add after shelling out some fairly serious coin that the shelf life of these is simply not long enough for a home user. I think they are designed for the pro studio but if I were a pro I'd probably be using the standard pro tools. Alright I am done b!t$#hing.

poker · 10-06-2010, 08:26 AM

I have and use Pro Tools M-Powered 8 with an M-Audio ProFire 610

Chingas · 10-06-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

And it will always sound programmed.
Live drummers can put "feel" into every little motion. Try keeping a jazzy, off-beat ride cymbal riff going by programming it in. Of course you can sample but that was played live originally.
I used to record on an 8 track reel to reel a long time ago. I had a lot of fun doing that. Never made any money. I have been watching CL and ebay for similar equipment, just to lay down some tracks of stuff I created in the past twenty years. I don't like the sound of most modern recordings. CD quality is far undersampled.
What kind of equipment do you need to get high quality digital? It would have to be a lot better than CDs (44.1 kHz, 16 bit).

I hear what your saying and I agree, to an extent. The samples today are pretty badass, all recorded by professional drummers usually using at least 16 different variations of hit strength.

Programming is so realistic now that you can add "feel". You can push or lag any hit. You can change the placement of where the stick hits the head, middle, side, rim, velocity of hit. You can even add imperfections to make it less "robotic".

Believe me, I prefer a real drummer over programming. But if you're good enough programmer, and I'm not yet, I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in an average rock song.

As for quality. CD quality blows but your at the helm of the playback device. I usually track at 24/192 but have scaled down to fit the projects overall outcome. If it's just going on myspace or YouTube then 24/96 or 24/44 is fine. That gets converted to 16/44 at the end of the day and then gets compressed the hell out of to an mp3 for clients.

It's a shame more people don't hear the benefits of s quality recording. A majority of the people are deaf to the true sounds that go into a recording and only hear the compressed shitty quality thru crappy earbuds. Not many people left that truly "listen" to music. It's really a shame.

10-06-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chingas

Not many people left that truly "listen" to music. It's really a shame.

Q.F.T.
The quality of modern home audio gear speaks to this.
...
I almost got started on a rant but deleted it.
Sell what people want to buy, and smile.

10-03-2010, 08:16 PM	#1
kenstogie following the whiterabbit Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 1,325 Trading: (3)	multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS So thought I'd ask who around the Asylum uses Pro Tools or Sonar or anything else for that matter. I've been using Cakewalk SONAR since Pro Audio 7 (10 versions ago) __________________ I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

10-03-2010, 08:19 PM	#2
Chingas Death Is Waiting Join Date: Jun 2010 First Name: Chingas Location: Slayerville, Jersey Posts: 5,295 Trading: (35)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS I have a studio in the basement and I use Pro Tools HD. I started on Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 back in '96, I think. It was a long time ago. Moved along with it thru Sonar 5 then moved to Pro Tools LE and now HD. What are you using your equipment for? __________________ ---Chingas--- ---Team Death Bomb Squad: Captain---

10-03-2010, 08:22 PM	#3
kenstogie following the whiterabbit Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 1,325 Trading: (3)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS mostly acoustic/electric guitar, harmonica and of course some midi stuff. I need some help with the midi stuff for sure. __________________ I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

10-03-2010, 08:23 PM	#4
kenstogie following the whiterabbit Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 1,325 Trading: (3)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS What does Pro Tools do that Sonar doesn't and vice versa? I know the pros generally used Pro Tools is that still the case? __________________ I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

10-03-2010, 08:28 PM	#5
Chingas Death Is Waiting Join Date: Jun 2010 First Name: Chingas Location: Slayerville, Jersey Posts: 5,295 Trading: (35)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS It's a mixed bag. Believe it or not Sonar does some things Pro Tools doesn't and vice versa. Pros use everything today. Most large BigBoy studios stick with Pro Tools HD cause they have used it for so many years. A lot of Basement and home studios use everythign from Cubase to Sonar to Logic, Reaper, etc... __________________ ---Chingas--- ---Team Death Bomb Squad: Captain---

10-03-2010, 08:33 PM	#7
kenstogie following the whiterabbit Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 1,325 Trading: (3)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS all of it Nah just need to learn it. __________________ I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

10-03-2010, 08:34 PM	#8
Chingas Death Is Waiting Join Date: Jun 2010 First Name: Chingas Location: Slayerville, Jersey Posts: 5,295 Trading: (35)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS Once you understand the concept that it is just data and not audio you'll be fine. It's actually pretty straight forward, just seems complicated in the beginning! __________________ ---Chingas--- ---Team Death Bomb Squad: Captain---

10-03-2010, 08:36 PM	#9
DBall Cigar Jesus Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dan Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 3,779 Trading: (46)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS I use audacity... it's free and it does what I need it to do. __________________ --------Dan--------- My Music \| My Videos

10-03-2010, 08:41 PM	#10
kenstogie following the whiterabbit Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 1,325 Trading: (3)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS mostly set up and config stuff I mostly use it for Audio editing mixing recording straight in from a M Audio mic pre amp with phantom. Use an old Marshall Mxl, SM57,58s they've served me well for not alot of $$. Mostly I would like to use it for drum stuff as I can't play them nor do I have them. I also used fruityloops for a while. Dan - Audacity is great program and use it for quick edits. __________________ I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

10-03-2010, 08:45 PM	#11
Chingas Death Is Waiting Join Date: Jun 2010 First Name: Chingas Location: Slayerville, Jersey Posts: 5,295 Trading: (35)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS MIDI in and MIDI out are your friends. MIDI in is key. Hook that up to your inbound hardware. Havn't been in Sonar for along time but go to your MIDI settings and be sure that your software sees your controller. From there, grab a plugin, Piano, synth, whatever or open your MIDI editor and hit some keys. You won't get audio until you tie it to software that can be controlled. __________________ ---Chingas--- ---Team Death Bomb Squad: Captain---

10-04-2010, 07:22 AM	#13
kenstogie following the whiterabbit Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 1,325 Trading: (3)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS I know that there is a tremendous amount of possiblities with MIDI and I get into it but eventually get to a point where there's a roadblock and can't get what I want or get frustrated as I am heading downa the "rabbit hole". Fruityloops is kinda different than Sonar or Protools but I think there are alot of good that can come of it. I think Sonar and protools are more pro but you can get pretty darn good sound out of it. FWIW i don't have the mind of a drummer either. Play with clips and loops they can get some great drum sounds out of them as many of them are actually pro drummers recording them. __________________ I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

10-06-2010, 08:02 AM	#17
kenstogie following the whiterabbit Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 1,325 Trading: (3)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS Well after pulling out my hair and wondering why certain componants of Sonar 6 were "disappearing" I called Cakewalk and was told that SONAR 6 PE just won't work with W7. So after dealing with this pretty much every time and dealing with a host of other various issues both hardware and software (though mostly software) I am considering switching. Pro tools? PE 8? what other options are there and of course what's the cost?? In all honesty I may also try to bit torrent a newer version of Sonar. I'd also like to add after shelling out some fairly serious coin that the shelf life of these is simply not long enough for a home user. I think they are designed for the pro studio but if I were a pro I'd probably be using the standard pro tools. Alright I am done b!t$#hing. __________________ I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

10-06-2010, 08:26 AM	#18
poker 1:11 Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Kelly Location: SoCal Posts: 5,280 Trading: (7)	Re: multi track recording ie - SONAR, PRO TOOLS I have and use Pro Tools M-Powered 8 with an M-Audio ProFire 610 __________________ Cigar Asylum: A cigar board birthed without agendas, without profiting, and without advertisements. Amor puro Character is what you do when no one is watching