Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum  

Go Back   Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum > Non Cigar Specialty Forums > Wine, Beer, and Spirits

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-15-2010, 12:11 PM   #1
wayner123
Country Gentleman
 
wayner123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 2,351
Trading: (159)
Trinidad
wayner123 has disabled reputation
Default Price differences on liquor

Can someone explain to me why liquor prices vary so widely from state to state? I can understand taxes being higher in some states, but I can't grasp why they would be nearly double the price. IE, Lagavulin 16yr in CT is $50, while even on discount in FL it's $95. That's a major swing just for taxation.
__________________
'It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife; But every fool will be quarrelling.'
wayner123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 12:17 PM   #2
markem
Mostly Harmless
 
markem's Avatar
11
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Mark
Location: Casa TJ
Posts: 15,930
Trading: (47)
HUpmann
markem has disabled reputation
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

supply and demand

also, what the market will bear
markem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 01:09 PM   #3
SvilleKid
Yes I am a Pirate
 
SvilleKid's Avatar
7
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 3346′08″N 8628′16″W / 33.76895N 86.471037W
Posts: 2,775
Trading: (52)
SvilleKid has disabled reputation
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Taxes is the largest difference. However, some states (Like Alabama) require that the liquor comes in first thru the ABC board, then the non-ABC retailers buy it thru the ABC board at the ABC board price. That means everything sold by non-ABC board retailer will be higher than at the state store, so the retailer can make a profit!!! This is also the reason Alabam has such a limited selection of most high-end products. The retailers can only buy what the ABC board has on it's list of purchased items. No going outside the list. Yeah, we're f'ed to the max! That's why 90% of the liquor I have was purchased out of this state. Allows me a greater selection, and in almost all cases, cheaper prices.
__________________
Ceilin' fan it stirs the air, Cigar smoke does swirl. The fragrance on the pillow case, and he thinks about the girl. Thanks, JB, 1975.
SvilleKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 01:14 PM   #4
awsmith4
Simple Pleasures - 2oL
 
awsmith4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Albert
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,602
Trading: (111)
HUpmann
awsmith4 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Distributors often set the prices of liquor. In Florida (and GA and many others) there is a three tier system, meaning Manufacturer - Distributor - Retailer. In some place the manufacturer can sell directly to retail. Many times the distributors set the price. I would however expect alcohol like tobacco has high state taxes that may be avoided when purchasing across state lines, which would mean the responsibility to pay tax is on the purchaser. Also in addition to supply and demand there is the possibility of the company either buying in such bulk they can offer a lower price or they are cutting their profit margin in hopes of a larger volume of sales (ie Total Wine).
awsmith4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 01:15 PM   #5
ninjavanish
Feeling at Home
 
ninjavanish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Trust me, your humi isn't big enough.
Posts: 507
Trading: (16)
Bolivar
ninjavanish is a jewel in the roughninjavanish is a jewel in the roughninjavanish is a jewel in the roughninjavanish is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Being a fan of the demon liqour... I have cultivated relationships with quite a few proprietors of liqour stores in multiple states across the US.

It is definitely the taxes.

Take a $30 bottle.

$15 is the wholesale cost to the retailer.

Tack on $10 for state tax

An additional $2 for local tax

And the extra $3 leftover is what the store gets to keep...

Once they recoup their overhead (labor, bills, etc) out of that $3...

The rest is profit... if you can call such a measly share as such.

This varies from state to state... but be assured... you are paying taces upon taxes upon taxes.
ninjavanish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 01:18 PM   #6
Bill86
Snob
 
Bill86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
First Name: Bill
Posts: 6,704
Trading: (67)
Cohiba
Bill86 is a name known to allBill86 is a name known to allBill86 is a name known to allBill86 is a name known to allBill86 is a name known to allBill86 is a name known to all
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Also it really depends where the liquor store is at, big city the prices SHOULD be cheaper. small town 20-25 miles away you'll pay $5 more per bottle and after $50 it increases to a good $8-$10. Call it 15-20% more. At least that's how it is for me.
Bill86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 02:21 PM   #7
tobii3
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,693
Trading: (1)
Partagas Army (Active)
tobii3 has a spectacular aura abouttobii3 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

okay, ONE advantage of being in the Armed Forces....

tobii3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 02:23 PM   #8
wayner123
Country Gentleman
 
wayner123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 2,351
Trading: (159)
Trinidad
wayner123 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

I realize that there are sometimes a multitude of taxes, but I just can't understand almost a 100% increase in them. The example I used is from Total Wine in FL. They sell Lagavulin for $95 while a smaller company in CT sells it for $50. That's nuts to me.

And to top it off, most of the time you can't order liquor over state lines. I didn't want this to turn into a rant, but I guess it has. With that large of an increase, it greatly hinders my trying out new Scotches.
__________________
'It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife; But every fool will be quarrelling.'
wayner123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 02:40 PM   #9
markem
Mostly Harmless
 
markem's Avatar
11
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Mark
Location: Casa TJ
Posts: 15,930
Trading: (47)
HUpmann
markem has disabled reputation
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner123 View Post
I realize that there are sometimes a multitude of taxes, but I just can't understand almost a 100% increase in them. The example I used is from Total Wine in FL. They sell Lagavulin for $95 while a smaller company in CT sells it for $50. That's nuts to me.

And to top it off, most of the time you can't order liquor over state lines. I didn't want this to turn into a rant, but I guess it has. With that large of an increase, it greatly hinders my trying out new Scotches.
dandm.com says that they can ship to you and have a work around in case you live some place they can't. Info is here:

http://www.dandm.com/shipping_info.php
markem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 02:57 PM   #10
tobii3
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,693
Trading: (1)
Partagas Army (Active)
tobii3 has a spectacular aura abouttobii3 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

did a "Quiggle" (Quick Google) for Lag 16 around me...

Prices ranged from $53.87 to $99.95.

No kidding.

$53.87

$99.95

I'll check Class VI on the way home Wayner
tobii3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 03:02 PM   #11
awsmith4
Simple Pleasures - 2oL
 
awsmith4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Albert
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 4,602
Trading: (111)
HUpmann
awsmith4 has disabled reputation
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Around here Balvenie 12 ranges from $32 - $60. At first I thought it was just Total Wine undercutting the competition but have seen the low price at other stores that are not impacted by TW's competition so I have decided the higher priced retailers don't move nearly as much quantity and therefore need higher profit margins.
awsmith4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 03:06 PM   #12
mosesbotbol
That's a Corgi
 
mosesbotbol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Moses
Location: Boston
Posts: 5,640
Trading: (6)
Punch
mosesbotbol has a spectacular aura aboutmosesbotbol has a spectacular aura aboutmosesbotbol has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Quote:
Originally Posted by SvilleKid View Post
Taxes is the largest difference. However, some states (Like Alabama) require that the liquor comes in first thru the ABC board, then the non-ABC retailers buy it thru the ABC board at the ABC board price. That means everything sold by non-ABC board retailer will be higher than at the state store, so the retailer can make a profit!!! This is also the reason Alabama has such a limited selection of most high-end products. The retailers can only buy what the ABC board has on it's list of purchased items. No going outside the list. Yeah, we're f'ed to the max! That's why 90% of the liquor I have was purchased out of this state. Allows me a greater selection, and in almost all cases, cheaper prices.
Yup. Taxes are a b.i.t.c.h and puritanical laws that relate back to Prohibition are just ways for government to take more out of our pockets & force a moralty that law makers themelves do not abide by.
__________________
F1 | Port Wine | Welsh Corgi | Campagnolo
mosesbotbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 03:08 PM   #13
mosesbotbol
That's a Corgi
 
mosesbotbol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Moses
Location: Boston
Posts: 5,640
Trading: (6)
Punch
mosesbotbol has a spectacular aura aboutmosesbotbol has a spectacular aura aboutmosesbotbol has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobii3 View Post
okay, ONE advantage of being in the Armed Forces....

Yup, next best is living in NY, NJ, MA or RI for retail.
__________________
F1 | Port Wine | Welsh Corgi | Campagnolo
mosesbotbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 03:11 PM   #14
T.G
Mmmm Stogies....
 
T.G's Avatar
13
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
First Name: The Other Adam
Posts: 14,224
Trading: (35)
Navy (Served With Honor)
T.G has disabled reputation
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Quote:
Originally Posted by markem View Post
dandm.com says that they can ship to you and have a work around in case you live some place they can't. Info is here:

http://www.dandm.com/shipping_info.php
It says that the company providing the workaround won't ship distilled spirits, just wine. And it looks like it's only in case lots too - although it sounds as if you can do mixed cases. I would personally get the Bobarian stamp of approval on that "workaround" company before doing business with them, as they might be great, but I wouldn't know what to look for to determine good from bad, and I wouldn't want to have a case of wine sent to a warehousing facility such as the one offered, then have them ship it to me only to have it snagged up in paperwork, lost or damaged.

Last edited by T.G; 12-15-2010 at 03:17 PM.
T.G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 03:32 PM   #15
TheRiddick
Non-believer
 
TheRiddick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
First Name: Greg
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 943
Trading: (7)
TheRiddick will become famous soon enoughTheRiddick will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Prices, for the most part, have everything to do with the 3-Tier system at work plus various other "incentives" distributors do, often times illegal (per ABC rules), but ignored by ABC for the most part. For example, if a distributor wants to move some specific product in a specific market he will offer the product at his price driving the eventual retail price down. Or, say, some retail shop wants to order X cases of Product A, but the only way he is able to order is by buying Y cases of Product B for each case of Product A on order. Yes, highly illegal by ABC rules, but everyone plays the game as if "I didn't see it happen". In cases such as this, whatever the "required" allocation of add-on product a retailer gets often times ends up on the floor at their cost just to move it ASAP and recoup the money they owe to the distributor in 30 days' time (for a product they didn't even want and were forced to take).

There are other "sales techniques" used in the wine/alcohol/beer business that create such huge differences in prices. 3-Tier system only benefits the distributors and often "punishes" consumers by either higher prices or limited (or no) availability in specific markets.
TheRiddick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 05:28 PM   #16
bobarian
Cranky Habanophile
 
bobarian's Avatar
3
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wine Country
Posts: 8,867
Trading: (51)
ERdM
bobarian has disabled reputation
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayner123 View Post
Can someone explain to me why liquor prices vary so widely from state to state? I can understand taxes being higher in some states, but I can't grasp why they would be nearly double the price. IE, Lagavulin 16yr in CT is $50, while even on discount in FL it's $95. That's a major swing just for taxation.
With the repeal of the 18th Amendment(Prohibition), the 21st Amendment allowed each state to set its own laws regarding alcohol. 50 states=50 different laws and 50 different tax rates.

When you buy alcohol from another state via a website you bypass your home state's tax laws. In Fl the tax rate on distilled spirits can run as much as $10/gallon, in addition distributors and retailers must pay license fees to sell liquor to FL residents. Out of state dealers for the most part do not pay these fees, nor do they pay Sales tax which must be paid by in-state retailers. You will find similar pricing differences in cigarettes.
bobarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2011, 07:13 PM   #17
GWN
Snow City
 
GWN's Avatar
1
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Jeff
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Posts: 898
Trading: (10)
Bolivar
GWN will become famous soon enoughGWN will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Up here it's simply taxation. Was in PA last weekend and saw a bottle of MacCallan 18 for $130. It retails here for $299. Consider yourselves lucky.
__________________
GWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 06:09 AM   #18
mosesbotbol
That's a Corgi
 
mosesbotbol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Moses
Location: Boston
Posts: 5,640
Trading: (6)
Punch
mosesbotbol has a spectacular aura aboutmosesbotbol has a spectacular aura aboutmosesbotbol has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWN View Post
Up here it's simply taxation. Was in PA last weekend and saw a bottle of MacCallan 18 for $130. It retails here for $299. Consider yourselves lucky.
In Quebec, the SAQ "sack" it to the consumers.
__________________
F1 | Port Wine | Welsh Corgi | Campagnolo
mosesbotbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 07:27 AM   #19
OLS
Suck It
 
OLS's Avatar
2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
First Name: Brad
Location: TN
Posts: 7,908
Trading: (19)
Bolivar AirForce (Served With Honor)
OLS is a splendid one to beholdOLS is a splendid one to beholdOLS is a splendid one to beholdOLS is a splendid one to beholdOLS is a splendid one to beholdOLS is a splendid one to beholdOLS is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Yeah?? Well I was up in CANADA last weekend, and this guy was getting open heart surgery for Free!
Here it costs $27,500.
__________________
Get a look inside the best lil Juke Jernt in Memphis at
https://www.facebook.com/meetmeinmemphis1
OLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 08:25 AM   #20
T.G
Mmmm Stogies....
 
T.G's Avatar
13
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
First Name: The Other Adam
Posts: 14,224
Trading: (35)
Navy (Served With Honor)
T.G has disabled reputation
Default Re: Price differences on liquor

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLS View Post
Yeah?? Well I was up in CANADA last weekend, and this guy was getting open heart surgery for Free!
Here it costs $27,500.
T.G is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content is copyrighted jointly by Cigar Asylum and the content provider.