Tragic shooting death involving off duty Detroit Police officer

[IBQTEE1]

Thanks Howard for the reenactment. It is a sad story.

[357]

Originally Posted by ApexAZ

This is just assuming what they are saying is really what happened. If so, where is the need to conceal a loaded and cocked weapon in your own back yard? I realize this is detroit, but it's not like this guy was on duty in a public area; it was his own home with friends he invited himself.

Anyways, that's why I prefer double action revolvers. You don't sacrifice speed, but it takes a lot more to discharge them accidentally.

Either way, the story definitely doesn't seem add up. Seems fishy.

This makes no sense. A striker fire weapon like the one in this story only requires some pressure on the trigger to fire. There is no real safety. The same is true of a DAO revolver. No safety and all you have to do to fire is apply pressure to the trigger.

I carry a 1911 that has a firing-pin block deactivated by a grip safety. It also has a thumb safety. It's designed to be carried cocked and locked, which scares some people who are unfamiliar with the operation of a 1911. Believe me when I say I've seen cocked/locked 1911 hammers bent forward where it almost made contact to the firing pin and the sear wouldn't release. I've read accounts where they've been dropped muzzle down from 3 stories and didn't fire. IMO the cocked/locked 1911 is one of the safest guns to carry. DA/SA are safe but have disadvantages I don't care for. DA/SA pistols have a long heavy trigger pull follwed by short light pulls. A SAO 1911 has the same trigger pull with each round. Since a consistent trigger pull is paramount to accuracy, I feel the DA/SA concept is flawed. But, I digress.

Originally Posted by HollywoodQue

Yeah man, it's a damn shane that it gotten this bad....but don't be fooled for a minute. The entire country is in bad shape.

@ Tom....man, I have been trying to move to West Bloomfield for over a year...just tried of all the nonsense in the streets.

First, great illustrations Howard. It would be possible from either a MOB or a strong side hip holster and I agree it would probably be the thumb pressing upward while gripping the waist or belt. If thats the way it happened, it was truly a freak accident.

The officer didn't do anything wrong if that's the case. Carrying on your own property has few if any of the restrictions that concealed carrying or open carrying does on public or otherwise owned private property.

Originally Posted by HollywoodQue

Until the department does a complete investigation, anything is possible.

The bad thing about it all is that there is a dead, one day short of turning 25 years old, young lady.

Lets suppose the officer is cleared....I believe that he can still be sued by the family for Wrongful Death.

If the officer is cleared I hope he doesn't face this kind of civil suit.

[ApexAZ]

It absolutely makes sense because it requires more pressure to fire a DAO revolver. Stock M&P trigger is rated at 6.5 lbs. My Ruger LCR is rated at 10.2 lbs according to American Rifleman.

I agree that this accident is still possible with a revolver, but it would require about 3.7 more pounds of pressure to fire, thus reducing the chances of accidental misfire.

Other benefits of revolver use:

Extremely low rate of malfunction.
No thought needed about what condition it's in. Just point and shoot.

If this can happen to a seasoned LEO, it can happen to anyone.

If you want to carry loaded, the revolver seems the safer, more reliable choice, while sacrificing some ammo capacity.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by 357

IMO the cocked/locked 1911 is one of the safest guns to carry.

Not to mention knock down power of the .45 and fun to shoot. Get hit anywhere with .45 and problem solved.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by ApexAZ

If you want to carry loaded, the revolver seems the safer, more reliable choice, while sacrificing some ammo capacity.

I guess we can agree to disagree, although I admit that I train specifically to carry a semi-automatic in a safe mode, possibly giving me an advantage over the average concealed carrier.

[357]

Originally Posted by ApexAZ

It absolutely makes sense because it requires more pressure to fire a DAO revolver. Stock M&P trigger is rated at 6.5 lbs. My Ruger LCR is rated at 10.2 lbs according to American Rifleman.

I agree that this accident is still possible with a revolver, but it would require about 3.7 more pounds of pressure to fire, thus reducing the chances of accidental misfire.

Other benefits of revolver use:

Extremely low rate of malfunction.
No thought needed about what condition it's in. Just point and shoot.

If this can happen to a seasoned LEO, it can happen to anyone.

If you want to carry loaded, the revolver seems the safer, more reliable choice, while sacrificing some ammo capacity.

I disagree. I like wheelguns. I appreciate their simplicity and overwhelming reliability. However, to imply this wouldn't happen because a DAO requires 3.5 more pounds of pressure is silly. Having two pieces of steel preventing the weapon from firing, requiring some form of actuation to disengage them, is much safer and doesn't require any more time to respond with. That said 1911s have been around over 100 years, 75 years of that they were the standard issue side arm for all branches of our military. They have a pretty good track record.

I don't worry about the condition of my 1911 a I always carry it cocked and locked. It only gets changed if I'm firing it or intentionally removing the ammo for cleaning or presentation to a friend. I draw and flick the thumb safety as I'm raising my pistol. The grip safety is disengaged by simply holding the weapon firmly enough for it not to fly out of my hand when I fire it.

That aside, the main issue seems to be unintentional pressure on the trigger caused the weapon to discharge. Had it been a DAO revolver the same thing may have happened. We don't know the amount of pressure exerted other than it had to be more than 6.5 lbs. Had the weapon been a 1911 or DA/SA pistol, it probably would not have happened given the physical safeties each has. I'm not begrudging him for what he was carrying, just stating fact. Carry what you want; legally of course. If I chose to carry a revolver or a striker fired weapon I would probably use a leather or hard polymer holster to help avoid something putting pressure on the trigger unintentionally.