Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?!

DragonMan · 01-14-2009, 10:29 PM

Help I need some advice!! On Nov.25, 2008 I had arthroscopy and debridement on my left knee for a torn Medial meniscus. The specialist said 4 to 6 weeks and I should be as good as new. Well it's Jan.14, 2009 and my knee still hurts!! I saw the specialist today and explained that I get a sharp pain in my knee if I walk or stand for very long and when I'm going up or down the stairs. He tells me that some pain is unexplainable. He did an MRI, found the torn Medial meniscus, did surgery to repair it and I should be fine now. He doesn't know why I'm still in pain and that I should quote "bite the bullet and go back to work!" I don't have a problem going back on Monday, I'm just a little concerned that it might get worse. Why is it still hurting and what am I supposed to do now, just live with the pain? Sorry for whining but I'm just a bit worried!!

RGD. · 01-15-2009, 12:34 AM

Well I'm no doctor - but aside from the fact that everybody has different pain thresholds: what may be discomfort to me could be pain to someone else. If it still hurts then it's one of two things. Either it hasn't healed yet or something is still wrong.

Took the doctors almost a year to find the problem with my wrist back in the late 70's - and they scoped and tested it to death. So - keep on them.

Ron

Don Fernando · 01-15-2009, 12:46 AM

Get a second opinion from another doctor Nick

bigliver · 01-15-2009, 12:47 AM

I had both of my knees done over the last two years, both with torn meniscusesses and other tears and cysts. I had and have similar problems in that I still have pain in my left knee. I just had another MRI done and am waiting on the results. It's taken me a year of repeated visits to the doctor to get them to acknowledge there may still be a problem. Not sure this helps other than to say that if there is still a problem/pain, there is still work to be done. As stated above, keep on them.

JaKaacH · 01-15-2009, 01:24 AM

My wife had the same thing. Some pain standing but real trouble with the stairs.
They did another MRI and had to go back in to clean it up again.
Might try to see if they will do another MRI to make sure they didn't miss something.

ucla695 · 01-15-2009, 06:58 AM

I'm not a doctor, but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I would definitely get a second opinion and see if everything is a-ok in there. Persistence is the key with these types of things.

01-15-2009, 07:09 AM

I have done everything just shy of amputation of my legs below the knees.

Torn LCL, torn MCL, torn ACL, torn PCL, torn Meniscus, multiple traumatic patellar dislocations, anterior knee dislocations and tibial shaft fractures, leading to patellofemoral arthralgia and retropatellar tendon bursitis...... (no kidding, this is actually IN my medical records!!)

In other words, I need new knees.

And, for lack of better words, you learn to live with the pain. Wish I could give you better news, but there are days I don't even wanna get out of bed.

Genetic Defect · 01-15-2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobii3

I have done everything just shy of amputation of my legs below the knees.

Torn LCL, torn MCL, torn ACL, torn PCL, torn Meniscus, multiple traumatic patellar dislocations, anterior knee dislocations and tibial shaft fractures, leading to patellofemoral arthralgia and retropatellar tendon bursitis...... (no kidding, this is actually IN my medical records!!)

In other words, I need new knees.

And, for lack of better words, you learn to live with the pain. Wish I could give you better news, but there are days I don't even wanna get out of bed.

all that from kneeling?

01-15-2009, 07:19 AM

Well, yeah, considering you were on all fours in front of me!!!

Genetic Defect · 01-15-2009, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobii3

Well, yeah, considering you were on all fours in front of me!!!

must be why my back is sore, thanks for nothing

Yazzie · 01-15-2009, 07:29 AM

Have you completed all your physical therapy and have you attempted to exercise the knee? Typically, scoping a knee is a very minor procedure however if you don’t work through the pain a bit and get the blood flowing in there the scar tissue will build up making it painful to move. I’m not a doc however had 2 medial meniscus arthroscopies and each time have found that the sooner you can get in there and work the area (Stretches, light weights, etc…) the better it responds.

I’m sure you have been told this by your Doc, but it is the only thing I can think of. Also age may play a role. When you are young your body recovers from any type of minimally invasive surgery much quicker than when you are older. If it’s your first arthroscopy and only cartlidge was removed I think you will be fine. I’ve had 2 and have run several marathons since. Maybe you just need some more time.

In any regard, Good Luck

tsolomon · 01-15-2009, 08:10 AM

4 knee operations later, 2 on each knee, I can tell you that physical therapy is really important to getting better. By this time, you should be pain free most of the time. I don't know how much work they did on your knee, but to have it ache after a long day would not be unusual. I had numbness in my left knee for years and just couldn't kneel on it which they never figured out.

The problem that I usually have is favoring the knee that had the surgery by leaning heavily on the other knee when I stand. Physical therapy is good, but you need to think about standing on both feet and working on strengthening the knee that had surgery after the physical therapy is done. If you're in pain, the tendency is to not use the leg. A stationary bike and leg lifts can help with both strength and flexibility.

ucubed · 01-15-2009, 10:47 AM

Well I haven't had any surgery on joints or anything, from playing sports, it is true that you need to start using it and I think you should see a Physical Therapist if you haven't already

goalie204 · 01-15-2009, 11:19 AM

2nd opinion nick

DragonMan · 01-15-2009, 11:33 AM

Thanks for all the advice. I have been working with the knee doing exercise and stretches and it has been cold here lately so I'm sure that could be playing some part. I'll go back to work and if it does not improve I will definitely get another opinion!! Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it!

mash · 01-15-2009, 02:56 PM

Hey Nick. I am a doctor and I think you've gotten some pretty good advice so far. Tee up a second opinion, and go see a sports physio in the meantime. There are a lot of structures, not only in the knee joint (tendons, ligaments, bursae, cartilage, bones), but above and below that could be causing your symptoms. Some surgeons can get pretty tunnel-visioned about their work. In the vast majority of cases, young people should expect to be pain-free following a scope and menisectomy.

mash · 01-15-2009, 02:57 PM

Hey Nick. I am a doctor and I think you've gotten some pretty good advice so far. Tee up a second opinion, and go see a sports physio in the meantime. There are a lot of structures, not only in the knee joint (tendons, ligaments, bursae, cartilage, bones), but above and below that could be causing your symptoms. Some surgeons can get pretty tunnel-visioned about their work. In the vast majority of cases, young people should expect to be pain-free following a scope and simple menisectomy.

01-15-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mash

...menisectomy.

I'd be VERY nervous when going in for this surgery.....G-d forbid somebody makes a typo.......

mash · 01-15-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobii3

I'd be VERY nervous when going in for this surgery.....G-d forbid somebody makes a typo.......

You mean like manisectomy?

01-15-2009, 06:43 PM

Doc #2 chiming in here. While a second opinion may be of some value, physio could very well be the key. I have found that alot of people with knee problems (me as well, torn ACL, torn MCL plus multiple other issues now) have a tendency to collect them. This may very well be due to the deconditioning that will commonly follow a knee injury. Next thing you know, your walking differently, weights get redistributed and other issues start to develop. One I have found very prominent in these situations is Patellar Femoral Pain Syndrome (also known by probably a half dozen other names such as patellar chondromalacia etc, see Tobii3's post for more of them). Some deconditioning of the muscles, some slight misalignment of the weight bearing surfaces in the joint (many people's foot arches aren't ideal) and next thing you know you get the knee cap riding slightly out of its idea track, causing it to wear on the cartillage like an unbalanced tire might.

Two other things to consider:
1) Not all knee "problems" have satisfactory solutions to them. Sometimes a surgeon who doesn't want to cut you may be your "best friend"

2) Not all knee "problems"/pain actually indicate a significant worsening of the knee's health. I have yet to see someone truly disabled by PFPS (the kneecap thing). Many people find they can cope better with the whole situation once they know that the activities they love won't actually ruin their knees, just hurt alot; many are able to get back to normal activity.

But, ya, get more advice from a medical professional face-to-face (not over the internet...as I can't see/feel your knees I can't truly tell you I know what is going on). Talk to a physiotherapist and ask someone to assess your feet as well, if it hasn't been done adequately yet. For my PFPS I found a good set of orthotics did me a wonder. Lastly, if orthotics come into play for you; I prefer FIRM generic orthotic inserts, in all shoes...and (if they help you) when the symptoms start to return it means the inserts are worn out. Time to rotate them down to a less used pair of footwear. That's why I like generics, easier to replace. Just like running shoes, which are usually good for about 500 miles, orthotics also have a lifespan (for me its also about 500 miles). Sometimes new inserts rejuvenates the shoes enough that you may be able to save money through not replacing shoes as much.

But I will stop before I ramble too much more.

Hey MASH....good to see another doc here...what's your specialty (family medicine here).

Cheers

Cyanide

01-14-2009, 10:29 PM	#1
DragonMan Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 420 Trading: (9)	Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Help I need some advice!! On Nov.25, 2008 I had arthroscopy and debridement on my left knee for a torn Medial meniscus. The specialist said 4 to 6 weeks and I should be as good as new. Well it's Jan.14, 2009 and my knee still hurts!! I saw the specialist today and explained that I get a sharp pain in my knee if I walk or stand for very long and when I'm going up or down the stairs. He tells me that some pain is unexplainable. He did an MRI, found the torn Medial meniscus, did surgery to repair it and I should be fine now. He doesn't know why I'm still in pain and that I should quote "bite the bullet and go back to work!" I don't have a problem going back on Monday, I'm just a little concerned that it might get worse. Why is it still hurting and what am I supposed to do now, just live with the pain? Sorry for whining but I'm just a bit worried!! __________________ Canadian Roll Call - Companies That Ship To Canada

01-15-2009, 12:46 AM	#3
Don Fernando Postwhore Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Ferdinand Location: Singapore Posts: 10,064 Trading: (29)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Get a second opinion from another doctor Nick __________________ check out my reviews on my blog.

01-15-2009, 12:47 AM	#4
bigliver Cigarmurai Join Date: Dec 2008 First Name: Jason Location: Oki Posts: 404 Trading: (9)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! I had both of my knees done over the last two years, both with torn meniscusesses and other tears and cysts. I had and have similar problems in that I still have pain in my left knee. I just had another MRI done and am waiting on the results. It's taken me a year of repeated visits to the doctor to get them to acknowledge there may still be a problem. Not sure this helps other than to say that if there is still a problem/pain, there is still work to be done. As stated above, keep on them. __________________ Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

01-15-2009, 01:24 AM	#5
JaKaacH ROCK Chalk JAYHAWK K U Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Jeff Location: Living in the golden age of ignorance in power. Posts: 1,363 Trading: (32)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! My wife had the same thing. Some pain standing but real trouble with the stairs. They did another MRI and had to go back in to clean it up again. Might try to see if they will do another MRI to make sure they didn't miss something.

01-15-2009, 06:58 AM	#6
ucla695 Neither here, nor there Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Pool Posts: 3,696 Trading: (5)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! I'm not a doctor, but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I would definitely get a second opinion and see if everything is a-ok in there. Persistence is the key with these types of things.

01-15-2009, 12:34 AM	#2
RGD. God Like Status Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Ron Location: Alexandria, Virginia Posts: 971 Trading: (1)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Well I'm no doctor - but aside from the fact that everybody has different pain thresholds: what may be discomfort to me could be pain to someone else. If it still hurts then it's one of two things. Either it hasn't healed yet or something is still wrong. Took the doctors almost a year to find the problem with my wrist back in the late 70's - and they scoped and tested it to death. So - keep on them. Ron

01-15-2009, 07:09 AM	#7
tobii3 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! I have done everything just shy of amputation of my legs below the knees. Torn LCL, torn MCL, torn ACL, torn PCL, torn Meniscus, multiple traumatic patellar dislocations, anterior knee dislocations and tibial shaft fractures, leading to patellofemoral arthralgia and retropatellar tendon bursitis...... (no kidding, this is actually IN my medical records!!) In other words, I need new knees. And, for lack of better words, you learn to live with the pain. Wish I could give you better news, but there are days I don't even wanna get out of bed.

01-15-2009, 07:19 AM	#9
tobii3 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Well, yeah, considering you were on all fours in front of me!!!

01-15-2009, 07:29 AM	#11
Yazzie Have My Own Room Join Date: Nov 2008 First Name: Mark Location: Longhorn Country Posts: 1,674 Trading: (10)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Have you completed all your physical therapy and have you attempted to exercise the knee? Typically, scoping a knee is a very minor procedure however if you don’t work through the pain a bit and get the blood flowing in there the scar tissue will build up making it painful to move. I’m not a doc however had 2 medial meniscus arthroscopies and each time have found that the sooner you can get in there and work the area (Stretches, light weights, etc…) the better it responds. I’m sure you have been told this by your Doc, but it is the only thing I can think of. Also age may play a role. When you are young your body recovers from any type of minimally invasive surgery much quicker than when you are older. If it’s your first arthroscopy and only cartlidge was removed I think you will be fine. I’ve had 2 and have run several marathons since. Maybe you just need some more time. In any regard, Good Luck

01-15-2009, 08:10 AM	#12
tsolomon Have My Own Room Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tom Location: The Villages, FL Posts: 1,240 Trading: (31)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! 4 knee operations later, 2 on each knee, I can tell you that physical therapy is really important to getting better. By this time, you should be pain free most of the time. I don't know how much work they did on your knee, but to have it ache after a long day would not be unusual. I had numbness in my left knee for years and just couldn't kneel on it which they never figured out. The problem that I usually have is favoring the knee that had the surgery by leaning heavily on the other knee when I stand. Physical therapy is good, but you need to think about standing on both feet and working on strengthening the knee that had surgery after the physical therapy is done. If you're in pain, the tendency is to not use the leg. A stationary bike and leg lifts can help with both strength and flexibility.

01-15-2009, 10:47 AM	#13
ucubed Corona Cigars Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Kevin Location: Orlando/Gainesville Posts: 1,571 Trading: (15)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Well I haven't had any surgery on joints or anything, from playing sports, it is true that you need to start using it and I think you should see a Physical Therapist if you haven't already __________________ All new Troop Support Auctions! What can you donate?

01-15-2009, 11:19 AM	#14
goalie204 Have My Own Room Join Date: Dec 2008 First Name: Myles Location: Winnipeg Posts: 1,659 Trading: (12)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! 2nd opinion nick

01-15-2009, 11:33 AM	#15
DragonMan Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 420 Trading: (9)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Thanks for all the advice. I have been working with the knee doing exercise and stretches and it has been cold here lately so I'm sure that could be playing some part. I'll go back to work and if it does not improve I will definitely get another opinion!! Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it! __________________ Canadian Roll Call - Companies That Ship To Canada

01-15-2009, 02:56 PM	#16
mash Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Nov 2008 First Name: Kevin Posts: 435 Trading: (2)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Hey Nick. I am a doctor and I think you've gotten some pretty good advice so far. Tee up a second opinion, and go see a sports physio in the meantime. There are a lot of structures, not only in the knee joint (tendons, ligaments, bursae, cartilage, bones), but above and below that could be causing your symptoms. Some surgeons can get pretty tunnel-visioned about their work. In the vast majority of cases, young people should expect to be pain-free following a scope and menisectomy.

01-15-2009, 02:57 PM	#17
mash Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Nov 2008 First Name: Kevin Posts: 435 Trading: (2)	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Hey Nick. I am a doctor and I think you've gotten some pretty good advice so far. Tee up a second opinion, and go see a sports physio in the meantime. There are a lot of structures, not only in the knee joint (tendons, ligaments, bursae, cartilage, bones), but above and below that could be causing your symptoms. Some surgeons can get pretty tunnel-visioned about their work. In the vast majority of cases, young people should expect to be pain-free following a scope and simple menisectomy.

01-15-2009, 06:43 PM	#20
Cyanide Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Is there a Doctor in the Asylum?!?! Doc #2 chiming in here. While a second opinion may be of some value, physio could very well be the key. I have found that alot of people with knee problems (me as well, torn ACL, torn MCL plus multiple other issues now) have a tendency to collect them. This may very well be due to the deconditioning that will commonly follow a knee injury. Next thing you know, your walking differently, weights get redistributed and other issues start to develop. One I have found very prominent in these situations is Patellar Femoral Pain Syndrome (also known by probably a half dozen other names such as patellar chondromalacia etc, see Tobii3's post for more of them). Some deconditioning of the muscles, some slight misalignment of the weight bearing surfaces in the joint (many people's foot arches aren't ideal) and next thing you know you get the knee cap riding slightly out of its idea track, causing it to wear on the cartillage like an unbalanced tire might. Two other things to consider: 1) Not all knee "problems" have satisfactory solutions to them. Sometimes a surgeon who doesn't want to cut you may be your "best friend" 2) Not all knee "problems"/pain actually indicate a significant worsening of the knee's health. I have yet to see someone truly disabled by PFPS (the kneecap thing). Many people find they can cope better with the whole situation once they know that the activities they love won't actually ruin their knees, just hurt alot; many are able to get back to normal activity. But, ya, get more advice from a medical professional face-to-face (not over the internet...as I can't see/feel your knees I can't truly tell you I know what is going on). Talk to a physiotherapist and ask someone to assess your feet as well, if it hasn't been done adequately yet. For my PFPS I found a good set of orthotics did me a wonder. Lastly, if orthotics come into play for you; I prefer FIRM generic orthotic inserts, in all shoes...and (if they help you) when the symptoms start to return it means the inserts are worn out. Time to rotate them down to a less used pair of footwear. That's why I like generics, easier to replace. Just like running shoes, which are usually good for about 500 miles, orthotics also have a lifespan (for me its also about 500 miles). Sometimes new inserts rejuvenates the shoes enough that you may be able to save money through not replacing shoes as much. But I will stop before I ramble too much more. Hey MASH....good to see another doc here...what's your specialty (family medicine here). Cheers Cyanide