Bonds looks to be off the Hook, Fed Case on Deathbed

Starscream · 06-26-2010, 12:54 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/06/11/...ion=cnn_latest

Quote:

Washington (CNN) -- Baseball all-time home run champion Barry Bonds won a big legal victory Friday when a federal appeals court ruled that evidence the government says would prove he lied about using steroids is inadmissible in court.

The San Francisco-based 9th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals, in a divided opinion, said the government cannot use urine samples and other evidence in its perjury case against the former San Francisco Giants star.

Bonds was indicted in federal court in December 2008 on 10 counts of making false statements to a grand jury -- specifically, denying that he knowingly took steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs.

His criminal trial has been delayed while the legal issues are being worked out. It was unclear whether the Justice Department will now appeal to the Supreme Court in an effort to allow the evidence to be used in court.

The Appeals Court ruling upholds a February 2009 ruling from U.S. District Judge Susan Illston that there was no proof that positive steroid tests from 2000 and 2001 were Bonds' and that out-of-court statements from his former trainer, Greg Anderson, are hearsay.

The appeals court majority said the repeated refusal of Anderson to testify against Bonds means evidence allegedly gathered by him is considered "inadmissible, since he would be unable to vouch for its authenticity."

Robert Talbot, a professor at the University of San Francisco School of Law said the ruling essentially torpedoes the prosecution's case, which was heavily dependent on evidence and information from Bonds' former trainer.

"There was a link missing here, that the only way to get down to the nitty-gritty that this was from Barry Bonds was using hearsay testimony," Talbot said.

Anderson, he said, "had possession of the evidence and he had that knowledge, and you can't use that knowledge unless he actually testifies under oath."

"To try and prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, particularly in San Francisco where there are going to be many, many people chosen for a jury who would be behind Barry Bonds -- it should be the death knell," Talbot said.

"Practically speaking they should say, 'We gave it our best shot, and it's just not there,'" he said.

Yes, he probably was on steroids (110%) and isn't the greatest personality in baseball, but I'm glad to see this is finally over with. He should have never been put in that situation.

shilala · 06-26-2010, 01:16 PM

I agree completely, Andy. Enough is enough. I'm glad to see the whole thing be done with.

kelmac07 · 06-26-2010, 02:23 PM

Steriods or not...greatest left fielder to play the game.

The Poet · 06-26-2010, 02:31 PM

Not to get too "Yogi" on you, but I ain't sure it's over 'til it's over here.

icehog3 · 06-26-2010, 02:46 PM

I thought Bobby Bonds retired decades ago.

Starscream · 06-26-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3

I thought Bobby Bonds retired decades ago.

As a player, he retired in this decade as a coach. Maybe it was the late 90s.

chippewastud79 · 06-26-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

Steriods or not...greatest left fielder to play the game.

Ted Williams? Stan Musial? Rickey Henderson? Shoeless Joe? Willie Stargell? Carl Yastrzemski?

At best he is in the top 5, but #1 all-time is certainly a stretch.

kelmac07 · 06-26-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Ted Williams? Stan Musial? Rickey Henderson? Shoeless Joe? Willie Stargell? Carl Yastrzemski?

At best he is in the top 5, but #1 all-time is certainly a stretch.

Overall....he is at least #3 (with only Musial and Williams ahead of him)...hit for average, power, stolen bases, RBIs...

Henderson...great base stealer...not a lot of power, low average
Stargell...didn't he play 1B?
Yaz...too many years as a catcher
Williams...he could give Bonds a run for his money in every category except SBs
Shoeless Joe...if only he had played a few more years
Musial...he could give Bonds a run for his money in every category except SBs

06-26-2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3

I thought Bobby Bonds retired decades ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andysutherland

As a player, he retired in this decade as a coach. Maybe it was the late 90s.

Andy, could be wrong but I think Tom is messing wit u. "Bobby" not Barry Bonds,

Buena Fortuna · 06-26-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

Overall....he is at least #3 (with only Musial and Williams ahead of him)...hit for average, power, stolen bases, RBIs...

Henderson...great base stealer...not a lot of power, low average
Stargell...didn't he play 1B?
Yaz...too many years as a catcher
Williams...he could give Bonds a run for his money in every category except SBs
Shoeless Joe...if only he had played a few more years
Musial...he could give Bonds a run for his money in every category except SBs

Ever heard of Willie Mays and Hank Aaron??? Keep moving Bonds down the list...as a matter of fact, take him off the list

chippewastud79 · 06-26-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buena Fortuna

Ever heard of Willie Mays and Hank Aaron??? Keep moving Bonds down the list...as a matter of fact, take him off the list

LF not OF. On the list of top OF of all time I am not sure Bonds cracks the top 10.

pnoon · 06-26-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

Yaz...too many years as a catcher

Yaz never played a single game as a catcher.

Could you be thinking of Carlton Fisk?

forgop · 06-26-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

LF not OF. On the list of top OF of all time I am not sure Bonds cracks the top 10.

The only list Barry deserves to be on is the sh!t list for taking steroids. To me, all of his stats should be wiped out by MLB.

chippewastud79 · 06-26-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnoon

Yaz was a LF until late in his career. 18 All-Star games, 7 Gold Gloves, 1967 MVP (when he had the Triple Crown)

chippewastud79 · 06-26-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgop

The only list Barry deserves to be on is the sh!t list for taking steroids. To me, all of his stats should be wiped out by MLB.

Unfortunately the 'steroid era' will likely never be stricken from the record because MLB and Selig had knowledge of it the entire time. It was "Part of the game" and it has to be assumed that every player is guilty until proven innocent, including the pitchers who threw the pitches that were hit.

Sadly, the last barrier, for some purists who would like to see records like his omitted, is the vote for the Hall of Fame. If recent history has shown a glimmer of hope for the fans of the unadulterated game, it is that McGwire hasn't even come close (I'm not sure he gets in without the PED's anyway).

Ahbroody · 06-26-2010, 05:07 PM

Sorry but a guy who cheated with steroids cannot be placed in the top 10 against athletes who competed fairly and played the game with honesty and integrity. If I was one of the players listed I would consider it a slap in the face as to how hard I worked and played the game.

As someone who grewup going to giants games and have gone my whole life, I never want to see him in the hall. Look at his stats the head of balco became his trainer in 2000, possibly 99. Look at the stats jump. How can anyone count the last 8 possibly 9 years of his career when looking at his stats? Take out all the tainted years and replace them with declining stats which is what he would have had. He also likely would have played a few less years given injury issues.

In short a known cheated should never be compared to a group of players who played the game with honor and integrity.

kelmac07 · 06-26-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnoon

Yaz never played a single game as a catcher.

Could you be thinking of Carlton Fisk?

Right you are Peter!! WTF was I thinking?

kelmac07 · 06-26-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

Sorry but a guy who cheated with steroids cannot be placed in the top 10 against athletes who competed fairly and played the game with honesty and integrity. If I was one of the players listed I would consider it a slap in the face as to how hard I worked and played the game.

As someone who grewup going to giants games and have gone my whole life, I never want to see him in the hall. Look at his stats the head of balco became his trainer in 2000, possibly 99. Look at the stats jump. How can anyone count the last 8 possibly 9 years of his career when looking at his stats? Take out all the tainted years and replace them with declining stats which is what he would have had. He also likely would have played a few less years given injury issues.

In short a known cheated should never be compared to a group of players who played the game with honor and integrity.

Mike...as far as we know they competed "fairly"...they didn't start testing in LMB for illegal drugs until the early 90s. Babe Ruth stayed drunk, as did Mantle and look at their numbers. Hmmm??? Defintely not saying I approve of Bonds cheating/juicing (althought he has never failed a drug test...evidence is in his pics from when he came up with Pittsburgh and was a scrawny kid and when he finished his hat size was 10 1/2...he has not been proven of cheating). He still had to swing the bat and play the game. I truly believe that Bonds receives such negative press from the way he was a prick towards the media. McGwire has admitted cheating and you don't hear a thing about it now. A-Rod still catches flack, but not as much. Andy Petite, you hear nothing!!! Media driven madness my brother!!!

AD720 · 06-26-2010, 08:35 PM

"*"

Ahbroody · 06-26-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

Mike...as far as we know they competed "fairly"...they didn't start testing in LMB for illegal drugs until the early 90s. Babe Ruth stayed drunk, as did Mantle and look at their numbers. Hmmm??? Defintely not saying I approve of Bonds cheating/juicing (althought he has never failed a drug test...evidence is in his pics from when he came up with Pittsburgh and was a scrawny kid and when he finished his hat size was 10 1/2...he has not been proven of cheating). He still had to swing the bat and play the game. I truly believe that Bonds receives such negative press from the way he was a prick towards the media. McGwire has admitted cheating and you don't hear a thing about it now. A-Rod still catches flack, but not as much. Andy Petite, you hear nothing!!! Media driven madness my brother!!!

First off I do find humor that a met fan called into question 3 yankees. 2 of the greatest players and yankees to ever play. I am not. Yankee fan, I am a giant fan.

Second as a cop and someone who played HS baseball at a very competitive school I will say alcohol would hinder reaction time which is essential. Steroids on the other hand could and would improve fast twitch muscles and heal muscle injuries which powerhitters are prone to. allowing a hitter with great skill but low strength to gain the strength needed and extend a carrer that would have ended earlier.

Finally, given the extremely limited accessibility of performance enhancing roids till the late 60s outside Eastern Europe, the fact that most every player on the list had traditional declining stats after peaking a few years in, and none of their head and bone structure changed which is typical of growth hormone users *which would not be detected then*, I will say Bonds is a fraud. While he clearly had talent roids gave him the ability to hit more homeruns and extend his career.

Not of this really matters as he got away with it.

06-26-2010, 01:16 PM	#2
shilala Dear Lord, Thank You. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Scott Posts: 13,721 Trading: (252)	Re: Bonds looks to be off the Hook, Fed Case on Deathbed I agree completely, Andy. Enough is enough. I'm glad to see the whole thing be done with. __________________

06-26-2010, 02:31 PM	#4
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: Bonds looks to be off the Hook, Fed Case on Deathbed Not to get too "Yogi" on you, but I ain't sure it's over 'til it's over here.

06-26-2010, 02:46 PM	#5
icehog3 Admiral Douchebag Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tom Location: Clermont, Kentucky Posts: 70,594 Trading: (60)	Re: Bonds looks to be off the Hook, Fed Case on Deathbed I thought Bobby Bonds retired decades ago. __________________ Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!

06-26-2010, 05:07 PM	#16
Ahbroody Daddy x 4 Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Mike Location: San Jose Posts: 3,708 Trading: (53)	Re: Bonds looks to be off the Hook, Fed Case on Deathbed Sorry but a guy who cheated with steroids cannot be placed in the top 10 against athletes who competed fairly and played the game with honesty and integrity. If I was one of the players listed I would consider it a slap in the face as to how hard I worked and played the game. As someone who grewup going to giants games and have gone my whole life, I never want to see him in the hall. Look at his stats the head of balco became his trainer in 2000, possibly 99. Look at the stats jump. How can anyone count the last 8 possibly 9 years of his career when looking at his stats? Take out all the tainted years and replace them with declining stats which is what he would have had. He also likely would have played a few less years given injury issues. In short a known cheated should never be compared to a group of players who played the game with honor and integrity.

06-26-2010, 08:35 PM	#19
AD720 I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Andrew Location: The City of BOTL-erly Love Posts: 2,684 Trading: (73)	Re: Bonds looks to be off the Hook, Fed Case on Deathbed "*" __________________

06-26-2010, 02:23 PM	#3
kelmac07 Resident Maduro Whore!! Join Date: Apr 2009 First Name: Mac Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 27,322 Trading: (218)	Re: Bonds looks to be off the Hook, Fed Case on Deathbed Steriods or not...greatest left fielder to play the game. __________________ Dom in the MLB thread "I could probably get you to wear a Yankee hat for a Maduro!"