LOST Notes - Page 7

Mugen910 · 03-06-2009, 12:36 PM

>>> EDIT 3/6/2009 2:06 PM >>>
Yes, the Charlotte birth year thing seems to be an issue, but think about this:
The information Ben rattled off about Ms. Lewis in "Confirmed Dead" was incorrect. She's clearly well into toddler stage by 1974, so obviously she was not born in 1979 as Ben stated last season. This may just mean that Charlotte lied and/or Abaddon purposefully changed her background information in whatever file Michael read on the freighter -- which he then passed to Ben.

It's just one of three things: 1. Ben lied about Charlotte's birth year, 2. The information that Ben got was wrong, or 3. It was not Charlotte.

>>> Notes >>>
#11. I'm going with Taweret. See attached pics. Similarities to the Island Statue: The ears are short, the hair or head dress is long, the square-ish headpiece, not to mention that it just makes sense! Taweret is the protector of women during pregnancy and childbirth!! Sometimes carrying the ankh (eternal life) in one hand and the sa (symbol of protection) in the other. And one other thing that's different in each picture I look at, but most of them depict Taweret with only 4 toes.

#5. Taken from a website
"Daniel Faraday sees a young red-haired girl at the Dharma Initiative camp in 1974 whom he believes is Charlotte Staples Lewis. However, Ben, when reciting her biography ("Confirmed Dead") stated she was born July 2, 1979, approximately 5 years too late to be Charlotte if Ben's information from Michael was correct (a birthdate of 1969 would be closer if this girl is indeed a young Charlotte). It remains possible, however, that the girl was not Charlotte, and Daniel was mistaken due to his grief."

Only time will tell! Have a nice weekend, everyone!

ucla695 · 03-06-2009, 12:53 PM

More great notes. Man, I'm going to have to watch the whole series again to catch a part of what has been happening. Kinda like drinking from a fire hose.

Mugen910 · 03-06-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucla695

More great notes. Man, I'm going to have to watch the whole series again to catch a part of what has been happening. Kinda like drinking from a fire hose.

I don't get this analogy.

ucla695 · 03-06-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910

I don't get this analogy.

Just saying that there's so much parallelism, symbolism (all sorts of isms

) etc that it's impossible to take it all in. Thanks why the notes help so much!

Mugen910 · 03-06-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucla695

Just saying that there's so much parallelism, symbolism (all sorts of isms

) etc that it's impossible to take it all in.

ah...thanks...never heard the fire hose thing before.

ucla695 · 03-06-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910

ah...thanks...never heard the fire hose thing before.

Gotcha. You should try it some time. It's fun. See.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXc5ltzKq3Y

Mugen910 · 03-06-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucla695

Gotcha. You should try it some time. It's fun. See.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXc5ltzKq3Y

I'll try it and letcha know...

03-06-2009, 10:04 PM

Great job, once again, Bao!!

It's going to be a LONG two weeks.
I've never been so involved, engrossed and obsessed in a TV program in all my years. This has got to be one of the most complicated, yet, extremely well written shows every produced IMHO.
I'm going out to have a cigar and reflect on the "notes".
Keep up the good work, Bao!!

Cigargal · 03-06-2009, 10:21 PM

So our losties have been part of the Dharma inititive for 3 yrs but where is young Ben Linus? He came to the island when he was about 10? And how old is he in 2007? What was the name of the episode about Ben's early years?

Cigargal · 03-08-2009, 12:23 PM

The Man Behind the Curtain. Ben is 11 yrs old when he comes to the island. I am not sure how old he is when the Oceanic flight crashes on the island, but my guess is that he and his dad Roger arrived on the island in the early 70's.

Also, Hurley, Jack and Kate meet up with Dharma, Locke and Ben are with the survivors of the plane crash...where is Sun and Sayid?

Mugen910 · 03-10-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigargal

The Man Behind the Curtain. Ben is 11 yrs old when he comes to the island. I am not sure how old he is when the Oceanic flight crashes on the island, but my guess is that he and his dad Roger arrived on the island in the early 70's.

Also, Hurley, Jack and Kate meet up with Dharma, Locke and Ben are with the survivors of the plane crash...where is Sun and Sayid?

patience my dear...I'm sure we'll find out soon..I cannot recall if they have shown them either.

The new survivors told Locke that a woman (Sun?) and the pilot (Lepidis) took off with a boat and the manifest...I wonder if they took Sayid too?

Cigargal · 03-10-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910

patience my dear...I'm sure we'll find out soon..I cannot recall if they have shown them either.

The new survivors told Locke that a woman (Sun?) and the pilot (Lepidis) took off with a boat and the manifest...I wonder if they took Sayid too?

I forgot about the boat...John was standing on the beach looking at an island-he is on the smaller island then.

dannysguitar · 03-19-2009, 01:40 PM

So, what are your thoughts on last night's episode!?!?!?

Mugen910 · 03-19-2009, 02:06 PM

I liked it but for some reason didn't love it..

dannysguitar · 03-20-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910

I liked it but for some reason didn't love it..

Yeah, I feel the same way. Maybe it didn't explain enough. Can't wait for next week. That one looks like a doosy!

kaisersozei · 03-20-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910

I liked it but for some reason didn't love it..

Don't know about you guys, but I love any episode that has both Kate & Juliet.

Cigargal · 03-20-2009, 10:55 AM

Glad boy Ben showed up-but it seems the adult Ben is at a different time than the boy Ben, as is Locke, the pilot and Sun. Not many new surprise-setting up everyone's new position in the pecking order.

What about Ethan? He is born to a Dharma woman in the mid-seventies, but when we originally meet him he is with Ben and the Others-He should have died in the massacre, don't you think?

And where is Daniel?

Mugen910 · 03-20-2009, 11:59 AM

Season 5 Episode 9 "Namaste"

1. Baby Ethan. How does he go from Dharma to Other? Assuming that the Purge took place in December 1992 Ethan was just a teenager when his people were wiped out by Ben and the Others. Did Ethan befriend Ben, or was he taken by the Others? If Ethan did befriend Ben and help bring down Dharma from the inside, then he helped kill his own father (Horace) - just like Ben and Locke both did. Recap on Ethan (assuming the baby grows up to be the Ethan we all know and love) - he was the Other who infiltrated the Losties' camp, abducted pregnant Claire, then got killed by Charlie after he came back to abduct Claire again.

2. Lapidus, the Ajira flight and the runway. Before the Ajira plane "landed" we see the co-pilot's surprise as they flash to day from night. This is similar to the helicopter rides to and from the freighter - either they gained or lost a few hours during the time storm, just like Daniel's model rocket. Also, when the co-pilot radioed for help we hear the original island radio transmission playing. Remember that Rousseau had actually turned the message off about two seasons ago so we may have proof that things can change and that Faraday was wrong (things can change). Following the one time string theory, hearing that message in 2007 would be an impossibility.

The existence of the runway is tremendous because it slaps us in the face with one big fact: all along, Ben knew that he'd need it. He'd instructed the Others to build it (remember that Sawyer and Kate were prisoners at this time and helped build it) without telling them why.

Why didn't Sun flash off the flight with the other Oceanic 6? Maybe because she couldn't exactly recreate her original flight circumstance. In this episode she tells Ilana "I was traveling alone" whereas the first time around she was traveling with Jin. Ms. Hawking said that the results would be unpredictable if the original flight was not perfectly recreated.

3. Sun and Lapidus meet Christian. There was definitely a suggestion to connect Christian and Smokey by having the two in the same vicinity at the same time. "You have a bit of a journey ahead of you,'' Christian told Sun. Creepy! (By the way, I am LOVING Lapidus. He's such a great character and I hope he's in the show full time now.) Again, it seems like Faraday's theory may be wrong... Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Lapidus are now seeing.

The Whispers in this scene say "Not on the List at all" or something like that. Meanwhile in 1977, the Dharma member is asking Kate whether she's been checked in at the Processing Center, and what her name is. He says, "You're not on my list...and you're not on the sub's manifest either." Similarities...

4. The Swan Hatch is still being built. I was under the impression that it was the energy from the frozen wheel and/ or the Jughead bomb that drew the Dharma people to the island in the first place. Hmmm. Guess not. Perplexing, no?

We learned in this episode that the Swan hatch is most likely being built in hostile territory. This would explain why it's buried, and why the entrance door to the Swan Hatch is kept hidden. It makes sense that the Others buried Jughead far away from their camp - this would make it easier for Dharma to bury an entire station beyond their truce-line without being found out. If Dharma registered a strange energy source coming from the ground they might build a station just to study it.

5. In the March 20, 2007 official podcast the show's creator said he did not believe The Others knew about the Swan hatch; however, he acknowledged that the Others might have observed the Swan through the monitors in the Pearl Hatch, after they took over the other Dharma hatches. Therefore, Radzinksy and Kelvin were not killed during the purge along with the rest of Dharma.

6. Sawyer and Jack.... Jack took Sawyer's speech surprisingly well. He knew Sawyer was right... that people died because Jack reacted without always thinking things through. This new Jack (who now has faith since Locke died) seems to be just rolling with it. I wish the two would work together without all the power struggles. Ugh, boys.

7. When Sayid's federal officer was awakened by Caesar after the crash she whispered ''Sarah.'' The only Sarah on the show so far has been Jack's ex-wife.

8. We finally get to meet Radzinsky! Remember that he was Kelvin Inman's partner inside the Swan Hatch before Desmond crashed on the island. We only know about him from what Kelvin told Desmond. Radzinsky was the creator of the blast door map (see attached), which he worked on with the aid of his photographic memory. He discovered how to fake a lockdown, which made it possible to work on the map, as the door was lowered during this time. He also edited the Swan Orientation film. Kelvin explained to Desmond that, while he was asleep, Radzinsky committed suicide by putting a shotgun in his mouth and firing it, causing a blood stain on the ceiling. Because of the protocol Kelvin had to bury him within 108 minutes.

So, if Radzinsky was part of Dharma and knew all about the hatches why did he create that map on the blast door? The map suggests that he is trying to figure things out, but he would already know these things (location of the hatches, etc).

Before Kelvin arrived on the island he was involved with the U.S. military in the Gulf War. During the war, he was connected to Sam Austen, Kate's stepfather, and manipulated Sayid, forcing him to act as a translator and torture Iraqi prisoners for information (although later Kelvin reveals that he can speak Arabic himself). After the war ended, Kelvin transferred a handcuffed Sayid to a deserted area and gave him money, including "bus fare" back to Ramadi. Addressing Sayid's disapproval of the torture methods he forced him to use, he tells him in Arabic that it will come in handy in the future before releasing him.

9. Another thing about Christian in the Dharma building. He points out that there's a 1978 recruitment photo on the wall too. Does this mean we'll see another year's worth of our main characters living in Dharma time? Originally the purge happened in 1992, but there were no recruitment photos on the wall after 1978 this time around. Did Dharma just stop recruiting in 1978? Not originally because Kelvin was recruited AFTER he was in the war with Sayid in 1991!

10. Remember how I emailed that the seasons of LOST are running parallel (Season 4 echoed season 3, season 5 echoes season 2). Sayid has become season 5's Henry Gale! A prisoner who must lie about his true identity for a greater purpose.

11. So, now that Ben and Sayid are meeting in 1977, will 2007 Ben have a new memory of Sayid (like Desmond did of Faraday)?

MikeyC · 03-20-2009, 05:56 PM

I'm not sure that I'm on board with the whole "jughead" is buried where they built the Swan theory. I'm not aware that nuclear bombs are magnetic. Plus, the hatch imploded not exploded as a nuke would do.

ucla695 · 03-20-2009, 08:35 PM

After watching this week's episode last night and during my daily commute this morning, I thought of the parallelism of Ben and Sayid. Especially after he was captured by Jin and the other Darma guy. My memory is sketchy, but the food thing in the camp rings a bell too. Didn't Locke offer food and was sympathetic to Ben when he was captured? Is Sayid the new Ben and will do whatever is necessary? I can't help but wonder????

03-06-2009, 12:36 PM	#121
Mugen910 I <3 Huy Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Location Location: First Name Posts: 8,387 Trading: (106)	Re: LOST Notes >>> EDIT 3/6/2009 2:06 PM >>> Yes, the Charlotte birth year thing seems to be an issue, but think about this: The information Ben rattled off about Ms. Lewis in "Confirmed Dead" was incorrect. She's clearly well into toddler stage by 1974, so obviously she was not born in 1979 as Ben stated last season. This may just mean that Charlotte lied and/or Abaddon purposefully changed her background information in whatever file Michael read on the freighter -- which he then passed to Ben. It's just one of three things: 1. Ben lied about Charlotte's birth year, 2. The information that Ben got was wrong, or 3. It was not Charlotte. >>> Notes >>> #11. I'm going with Taweret. See attached pics. Similarities to the Island Statue: The ears are short, the hair or head dress is long, the square-ish headpiece, not to mention that it just makes sense! Taweret is the protector of women during pregnancy and childbirth!! Sometimes carrying the ankh (eternal life) in one hand and the sa (symbol of protection) in the other. And one other thing that's different in each picture I look at, but most of them depict Taweret with only 4 toes. #5. Taken from a website "Daniel Faraday sees a young red-haired girl at the Dharma Initiative camp in 1974 whom he believes is Charlotte Staples Lewis. However, Ben, when reciting her biography ("Confirmed Dead") stated she was born July 2, 1979, approximately 5 years too late to be Charlotte if Ben's information from Michael was correct (a birthdate of 1969 would be closer if this girl is indeed a young Charlotte). It remains possible, however, that the girl was not Charlotte, and Daniel was mistaken due to his grief." Only time will tell! Have a nice weekend, everyone! __________________ I'm not antisocial, I just think people are stupid.

03-06-2009, 12:53 PM	#122
ucla695 Neither here, nor there Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Pool Posts: 3,696 Trading: (5)	Re: LOST Notes More great notes. Man, I'm going to have to watch the whole series again to catch a part of what has been happening. Kinda like drinking from a fire hose.

03-06-2009, 10:04 PM	#128
Waynegro1 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: LOST Notes Great job, once again, Bao!! It's going to be a LONG two weeks. I've never been so involved, engrossed and obsessed in a TV program in all my years. This has got to be one of the most complicated, yet, extremely well written shows every produced IMHO. I'm going out to have a cigar and reflect on the "notes". Keep up the good work, Bao!!

03-06-2009, 10:21 PM	#129
Cigargal Waiting for SoCal XI Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,472 Trading: (25)	Re: LOST Notes So our losties have been part of the Dharma inititive for 3 yrs but where is young Ben Linus? He came to the island when he was about 10? And how old is he in 2007? What was the name of the episode about Ben's early years?

03-08-2009, 12:23 PM	#130
Cigargal Waiting for SoCal XI Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,472 Trading: (25)	Re: LOST Notes The Man Behind the Curtain. Ben is 11 yrs old when he comes to the island. I am not sure how old he is when the Oceanic flight crashes on the island, but my guess is that he and his dad Roger arrived on the island in the early 70's. Also, Hurley, Jack and Kate meet up with Dharma, Locke and Ben are with the survivors of the plane crash...where is Sun and Sayid?

03-19-2009, 01:40 PM	#133
dannysguitar Feeling at Home Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Danny Location: SoCal Posts: 734 Trading: (36)	Re: LOST Notes So, what are your thoughts on last night's episode!?!?!? __________________ Proud Member of Team Death! aka PBC *Follow Me on Twitter*

03-19-2009, 02:06 PM	#134
Mugen910 I <3 Huy Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Location Location: First Name Posts: 8,387 Trading: (106)	Re: LOST Notes I liked it but for some reason didn't love it.. __________________ I'm not antisocial, I just think people are stupid.

03-20-2009, 10:55 AM	#137
Cigargal Waiting for SoCal XI Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,472 Trading: (25)	Re: LOST Notes Glad boy Ben showed up-but it seems the adult Ben is at a different time than the boy Ben, as is Locke, the pilot and Sun. Not many new surprise-setting up everyone's new position in the pecking order. What about Ethan? He is born to a Dharma woman in the mid-seventies, but when we originally meet him he is with Ben and the Others-He should have died in the massacre, don't you think? And where is Daniel?

03-20-2009, 11:59 AM	#138
Mugen910 I <3 Huy Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Location Location: First Name Posts: 8,387 Trading: (106)	Re: LOST Notes Season 5 Episode 9 "Namaste" 1. Baby Ethan. How does he go from Dharma to Other? Assuming that the Purge took place in December 1992 Ethan was just a teenager when his people were wiped out by Ben and the Others. Did Ethan befriend Ben, or was he taken by the Others? If Ethan did befriend Ben and help bring down Dharma from the inside, then he helped kill his own father (Horace) - just like Ben and Locke both did. Recap on Ethan (assuming the baby grows up to be the Ethan we all know and love) - he was the Other who infiltrated the Losties' camp, abducted pregnant Claire, then got killed by Charlie after he came back to abduct Claire again. 2. Lapidus, the Ajira flight and the runway. Before the Ajira plane "landed" we see the co-pilot's surprise as they flash to day from night. This is similar to the helicopter rides to and from the freighter - either they gained or lost a few hours during the time storm, just like Daniel's model rocket. Also, when the co-pilot radioed for help we hear the original island radio transmission playing. Remember that Rousseau had actually turned the message off about two seasons ago so we may have proof that things can change and that Faraday was wrong (things can change). Following the one time string theory, hearing that message in 2007 would be an impossibility. The existence of the runway is tremendous because it slaps us in the face with one big fact: all along, Ben knew that he'd need it. He'd instructed the Others to build it (remember that Sawyer and Kate were prisoners at this time and helped build it) without telling them why. Why didn't Sun flash off the flight with the other Oceanic 6? Maybe because she couldn't exactly recreate her original flight circumstance. In this episode she tells Ilana "I was traveling alone" whereas the first time around she was traveling with Jin. Ms. Hawking said that the results would be unpredictable if the original flight was not perfectly recreated. 3. Sun and Lapidus meet Christian. There was definitely a suggestion to connect Christian and Smokey by having the two in the same vicinity at the same time. "You have a bit of a journey ahead of you,'' Christian told Sun. Creepy! (By the way, I am LOVING Lapidus. He's such a great character and I hope he's in the show full time now.) Again, it seems like Faraday's theory may be wrong... Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Lapidus are now seeing. The Whispers in this scene say "Not on the List at all" or something like that. Meanwhile in 1977, the Dharma member is asking Kate whether she's been checked in at the Processing Center, and what her name is. He says, "You're not on my list...and you're not on the sub's manifest either." Similarities... 4. The Swan Hatch is still being built. I was under the impression that it was the energy from the frozen wheel and/ or the Jughead bomb that drew the Dharma people to the island in the first place. Hmmm. Guess not. Perplexing, no? We learned in this episode that the Swan hatch is most likely being built in hostile territory. This would explain why it's buried, and why the entrance door to the Swan Hatch is kept hidden. It makes sense that the Others buried Jughead far away from their camp - this would make it easier for Dharma to bury an entire station beyond their truce-line without being found out. If Dharma registered a strange energy source coming from the ground they might build a station just to study it. 5. In the March 20, 2007 official podcast the show's creator said he did not believe The Others knew about the Swan hatch; however, he acknowledged that the Others might have observed the Swan through the monitors in the Pearl Hatch, after they took over the other Dharma hatches. Therefore, Radzinksy and Kelvin were not killed during the purge along with the rest of Dharma. 6. Sawyer and Jack.... Jack took Sawyer's speech surprisingly well. He knew Sawyer was right... that people died because Jack reacted without always thinking things through. This new Jack (who now has faith since Locke died) seems to be just rolling with it. I wish the two would work together without all the power struggles. Ugh, boys. 7. When Sayid's federal officer was awakened by Caesar after the crash she whispered ''Sarah.'' The only Sarah on the show so far has been Jack's ex-wife. 8. We finally get to meet Radzinsky! Remember that he was Kelvin Inman's partner inside the Swan Hatch before Desmond crashed on the island. We only know about him from what Kelvin told Desmond. Radzinsky was the creator of the blast door map (see attached), which he worked on with the aid of his photographic memory. He discovered how to fake a lockdown, which made it possible to work on the map, as the door was lowered during this time. He also edited the Swan Orientation film. Kelvin explained to Desmond that, while he was asleep, Radzinsky committed suicide by putting a shotgun in his mouth and firing it, causing a blood stain on the ceiling. Because of the protocol Kelvin had to bury him within 108 minutes. So, if Radzinsky was part of Dharma and knew all about the hatches why did he create that map on the blast door? The map suggests that he is trying to figure things out, but he would already know these things (location of the hatches, etc). Before Kelvin arrived on the island he was involved with the U.S. military in the Gulf War. During the war, he was connected to Sam Austen, Kate's stepfather, and manipulated Sayid, forcing him to act as a translator and torture Iraqi prisoners for information (although later Kelvin reveals that he can speak Arabic himself). After the war ended, Kelvin transferred a handcuffed Sayid to a deserted area and gave him money, including "bus fare" back to Ramadi. Addressing Sayid's disapproval of the torture methods he forced him to use, he tells him in Arabic that it will come in handy in the future before releasing him. 9. Another thing about Christian in the Dharma building. He points out that there's a 1978 recruitment photo on the wall too. Does this mean we'll see another year's worth of our main characters living in Dharma time? Originally the purge happened in 1992, but there were no recruitment photos on the wall after 1978 this time around. Did Dharma just stop recruiting in 1978? Not originally because Kelvin was recruited AFTER he was in the war with Sayid in 1991! 10. Remember how I emailed that the seasons of LOST are running parallel (Season 4 echoed season 3, season 5 echoes season 2). Sayid has become season 5's Henry Gale! A prisoner who must lie about his true identity for a greater purpose. 11. So, now that Ben and Sayid are meeting in 1977, will 2007 Ben have a new memory of Sayid (like Desmond did of Faraday)? __________________ I'm not antisocial, I just think people are stupid.

03-20-2009, 05:56 PM	#139
MikeyC member of the CA MINYAN Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somewhere out there Posts: 1,782 Trading: (11)	Re: LOST Notes I'm not sure that I'm on board with the whole "jughead" is buried where they built the Swan theory. I'm not aware that nuclear bombs are magnetic. Plus, the hatch imploded not exploded as a nuke would do. __________________ I think Pandora's box was actually a humidor!

03-20-2009, 08:35 PM	#140
ucla695 Neither here, nor there Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Pool Posts: 3,696 Trading: (5)	Re: LOST Notes After watching this week's episode last night and during my daily commute this morning, I thought of the parallelism of Ben and Sayid. Especially after he was captured by Jin and the other Darma guy. My memory is sketchy, but the food thing in the camp rings a bell too. Didn't Locke offer food and was sympathetic to Ben when he was captured? Is Sayid the new Ben and will do whatever is necessary? I can't help but wonder????