stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

[SeanGAR]

No difference, guaranteed. Any difference you think you detect in your non blind test may more likely be due to your shops cigars being 6 months older than internet cigars.

Unless you do the cigar testing double blind with cigars of equivalent age the results are spurious.

Now, I'm sure that you realize that it has been conclusively proven that all cigars that are sold on the internet are made of worms and soaked in wolverine urine. Maybe that is the reason for the difference you detect?

[MedicCook]

I buy at both depending on what my needs are. My B&M has their own master roller so the only place I can get his amazing cigars is at the B&M. I have not really noticed any difference in cigars.

[neoflex]

I'm in the no difference camp, although I sometimes feel the Joes deals are some sort of seconds as the sticks don't always seem to be up to par with their regular retail counterparts. Like others mentioned, to test this correctly you would need to buy specimens from both retailers and let them sit in your controlled environment for at least a month and than pop the bands off and have others smoke them blindly. You also have to keep in mind to that some retailers sell smokes online that manufacturers go through great lengths to keep them from hitting the online market but the online retailers buy them through a Brick & Morter and in turn put them online so who is to say everything you are getting was meant for online sales only?
Again, as mentioned previously the logistics of having two different smokes for different markets would just be too costly to make it worth their while IMHO.

Originally Posted by Lucky_Hippo

This is why placebos sometimes work. The power of suggestion is a powerful drug, but it often brings an unwelcome bias when searching for "truth".

Big, cold, unattentive, warehouse cyber store.

or

Small, warm, personable, boutique-like cigar shop.

The cards are kind of stacked in the favor of the B&M when your data is pulled from a polling group of B&M regulars.

.

Agreed. But how do you account for the blind tests? 100% they knew the difference.

[Starscream]

I don't beleive that there are two awparate standards of tobacco, one for b&m's and one for internet retailers. I have noticed that I tend to enjoy sticks from b&m's more. I assume this is an aging issue.
Posted via Mobile Device

2 points.

1. I am not saying the internet cigars are bad. I am not saying the internet cigars are bad. Just not as good as the locals. With a noticeable difference. Not even saying a significant difference. Just noticeable.

2. Wher is the extra cost is separating box X from box Y. They can separate by brand. Name. Type. Size but not quality too? Why not? Why is that so much more expensive? Take nestor or don pepin. Both make tons of cigars for many different guys. In different sizes. Wrappers etc etc etc. But adding one more variable is gonna break the bank? Hogwash.

[potlimit]

As someone with post-grad work in stats I can tell you that if the sample size is large enough, a number like %100 would make me skeptical of the whole experiment... just from a purely experimental standpoint. You'd have to expect SOME variance in SOME variable.

From a personal standpoint, lately I've found that the sticks I've ordered from Atlantic (Cubao 1's and 5's and DPG blue label torps) have been just as good, if not better than those I've smoked at my B&M.

Originally Posted by potlimit

As someone with post-grad work in stats I can tell you that if the sample size is large enough, a number like %100 would make me skeptical of the whole experiment... just from a purely experimental standpoint. You'd have to expect SOME variance in SOME variable.

.

Agreed. So either

1. I'm lying.

Or

2. The stat Is telling of a noticeable(not significant) difference.

[mikeyj23]

Originally Posted by Legend

Agreed. So either

1. I'm lying.

Or

2. The stat Is telling of a noticeable(not significant) difference.

Exactly

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Legend

Agreed. So either

1. I'm lying.

Or

2. The stat Is telling of a noticeable(not significant) difference.

No accusations of lying here. I take your word that the results for the tests you have been present for are what you are saying they are.

I just don't buy it that manufacturers are putting good ( and/or different) tobacco in B&M cigars, and "scraps" in the cigars sold on the internet. I am guessing that a large amount of the cigars go to distributors who supply both B&Ms and Internet retailers. I would bet there are other differences accounting for your results, and also that different groups would likely have different results.

[Commander Quan]

Anyone want to set up a taste challenge? I there is no way it will be as epic as Moki Vs. Fredster but could be interesting.

[Homebrewer]

Hmmmm. Can you give us a recent example with brand/size and the result. What did the tasters say?

Originally Posted by icehog3

No accusations of lying here. I take your word that the results for the tests you have been present for are what you are saying they are.

I just don't buy it that manufacturers are putting good ( and/or different) tobacco in B&M cigars, and "scraps" in the cigars sold on the internet. I am guessing that a large amount of the cigars go to distributors who supply both B&Ms and Internet retailers. I would bet there are other differences accounting for your results, and also that different groups would likely have different results.

Whoa. Who said anything about scraps? Again. Not saying even significantly better. Just noticeable. And consistant. Again the internet big guys cigars aren't bad. Just not as good as the local.

Recent example. We did ashton VSG wizards. A botl had got a box off cbid. I organized the blind taste with 4 others and I knew which was which. Another time it was RP vintages 92 torpedo that time someone else was the non blind and it was 3 of us. We've done a bunch of others.

I think an asylum testing would be fun. Let's agree on a stick. I'll pay for it. Ship to 6 guys. 2 who think its bull. 2 who agree with me and 2 who think it could be either way. You have to smoke them side by side and I'll remove the original wrapper and put on a number.

Heck wait a minute. I won't dictate the rules. What do you think?

[replicant_argent]

I think you are full of beans. But you can have your beans any way that you want. I am OK with that. Age of the sticks would be the variable that makes a difference here. Your Mileage May Vary.


No test needed for me, I just smoke em and try not to overthink it too much. I have the palate of a goat, and the attitude to match.

[Les Nessman]

Originally Posted by Legend

Whoa. Who said anything about scraps? Again. Not saying even significantly better. Just noticeable. And consistant. Again the internet big guys cigars aren't bad. Just not as good as the local.

Recent example. We did ashton VSG wizards. A botl had got a box off cbid. I organized the blind taste with 4 others and I knew which was which. Another time it was RP vintages 92 torpedo that time someone else was the non blind and it was 3 of us. We've done a bunch of others.

I think an asylum testing would be fun. Let's agree on a stick. I'll pay for it. Ship to 6 guys. 2 who think its bull. 2 who agree with me and 2 who think it could be either way. You have to smoke them side by side and I'll remove the original wrapper and put on a number.

Heck wait a minute. I won't dictate the rules. What do you think?

The results of the test would not be statistically valid - way too small of a sample size. That being said, right or wrong, you can still convince people with statistically invalid test results.

[JaKaacH]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

I think you are full of beans. But you can have your beans any way that you want. I am OK with that. Age of the sticks would be the variable that makes a difference here. Your Mileage May Vary.


No test needed for me, I just smoke em and try not to overthink it too much. I have the palate of a goat, and the attitude to match.

They are just cigars, smoke'em up yum..!!

Is the bottle of wine enjoyed by the glass at the resturant better than the same bottle at home???

[Raralith]

Relax Legend, I think you need a smoke. We are giving you our thoughts and opinions, and obviously most of us disagree with you. Take it with a grain of salt because in the end, if you believe it, there's nothing we can say to persuade you.

After taking a moment to think about this, I don't believe a B&M has superior cigars to internet retailers. It comes down to business, and it is completely different than your third point you made. Cigar manufacters are a business, pure and simple; they make money. Pepping is a hardy fellow that gives you a 3 pack of Tat Blacks when you purchase a box, but ever wonder why some Tat's are so expensive? They are rolled in Miami, and compared to Nicaragua, the cost of employing those rollers is very high. Why doesn't Peppin eat the cost? Because he's a businessman. While love and talent of ones work is important in creating a create cigar line, making money is why they are in business.

I think most cigar manufacter's realize now that the internet could be the next big thing in the industry, if not already. B&M's, my guess, probably sell less cigars than internet retailers, and I think most of us here can understand why; money, money, money. CI sells a box of NC Oliva V Lancero for $140, my local B&M sells them for $12 each. I cannot think of a single B&M (excluding those that sell online) that can beat online retailers simply because they get a better price. If you are a manufacter, why in the world would you send inferior product to your largest market base, and send your best product to a smaller market base? It doesn't.

I would like to know Rob at Taboo on his thoughts on this. He owns a B&M, and sells online. While he isn't a big guy like CI, he might ship a lot more than any local B&M can because he can advertise on forums, gives great discounts and prices, and is well known for his customer service. I'm fairly certain that he would say there really is no difference.

[chenvt]

I've never had a problem with an internet vendor.. any sticks that arrive in poor condition, I've always been able to get a refund.. For example, I got a box of Tat VI Angeles from CI, 5 sticks came with split foots. One e-mail later, my credit card was refunded by 5 sticks..

B&Ms vary.. the one down the street from me is horrible and I will NEVER ever go back..

In reality even though the big internet hit may sell 100 times the volume of one local. The fact is there are thousands of locals. And keeping them in business is very important to the industry. This is why rocky and nick perdomo show up at my local lounge.

Again I'm not talking about a vastly inferior product. Same tobacco. Just not the best. Giving them a small edge will keep them open and ordering. The average internet ordering guy is happy to get his smokes cheaper and with the same placebo effect mentioned above thinks there is no difference. I don't know how many guys I've heard or read about getting seconds and saying they are just as good. Do a side by side. Most are not even close.


I'm aware its an unprovable arguement for both sides. But I think its a fun debate and would be cool to do amongst the inmates.

[cort]

Wow Shawn if this is true I need your number and will meet you at Zarkas one day this week.

Very intersting but hard to believe.